As of September I've been out four years. Why did I leave? There is not a single reason but more like many all combined together.
1. They hypocrisy
2. The lack of control over my own life
3. The bad advice and counselling
4. The rules against seeking advice and counselling elsewhere
5. The rules against having friends outside of TWI
6. Because my ex would not allow me to have anyone over, even other "believers", without first calling him for permission and the leader.... in the area backed him up on it. (I was by and large a prisoner in my own home).
7. I got tired of being .... on by my ex and leadership for still having some degree of my own mind left.
8. It became clear to my that what was being taught did not line up with the Bible.
9. I no longer had any friends in TWI or out of TWI and life was becoming quite lonely
10. I reached the point where facing the devil and risking death was no longer scarier or worse than facing another day living in the hell I was in with my marriage and TWI.
I think I have told you why I left, but since my five year anniversary is rapidly approaching (December 1, 1999) I have been reflecting on it.
I was a totally committed "dog soldier" for twi. I spent all of my teens (okay, I was 14 not 13) and my complete and total adult life in TWI. I did everything I was supposed to do, and after the corps I spent 9 years on staff at headquarters. I left staff after the rock in 1994, and left on 12/1/99. It took me five full years of working and living in "the world" to finally make the break.
It took me that long to realize that even active church go-ers don't act "en mass" and "vote en mass." The real God fearing people, real Bible believers were able to have their own minds, their own thoughts, their own privacy.
TWI had done a magnificent job of "scatter-feeding" their followers. Beginning in March 1989 and following, each and every month had been more consumptive of the twi followers minds and hearts.
The last few years at twi, a number of my closest friends and I all realized that martindale and his crowd were wacko, delusional and dangerous. For the sake of "the ministry" we were willing to wait it out, until someone got rid of him. As time went by, I realized that no one would ever get rid of him as things stood. He was the embodiement of evil and they were willing to just let him keep being the mog.
When I finally left....it was like a new life for me. New air to breathe, new beauty to see, new things to learn.
4. The rules against seeking advice and counselling elsewhere
9. I no longer had any friends in TWI or out of TWI and life was becoming quite lonely
================
Like Abi and others, it took more than one thing to leave something that had taken up almost my entire adult life. If I had to pick ONE thing it would be this: I no longer felt my involvement and life in TWI meant anything. No value at all. I saw myself and everyone around me having no positive impact in anyone's life, especially my own. When I did make a difference, it either had nothing to do with TWI or, at times, was despite them. When I finally faded into the woodwork, it was pretty much a non-event. I just got to sleep in on Sunday. That was about it.
I have said it many ways that TWI are dead men walking. There is no life there at all. The scandals and ridiculously poor management have sapped the heart and soul of even the most committed followers. At the end of WWII in Berlin, one could witness an awesome and terrifying meltdown of the last Nazi followers. Some woke up. Some just cried. Some saved their last bullet for themselves. And a few lived to rebuild their country. My goal is to be the latter, living a healthy, normal life. I couldn't see that happening in what the Way had become. It is impossible for even marginally sane people to ignore it's no longer hidden corruption.
Craig Martindale proclaimed the 90s as the "Decade of Victory." What a joke. My Bible says in Proverbs 13:12 that "hope deferred maketh the heart sick." In my opinion, this is what killed TWI today. Vainly trying to pretend that everything in the Land of the Prevailing Word is great when the house is burning to the ground. And even innies see it. IMO, no place was this more noticeable than witnessing. Outreach became the last, great delusion of the Way International. False and hopelessly unrealistic approaches to outreach failed and everyone knew it. There was a never ending string of "Outreach Plans." Yet another doomed push by the Wayfer Germans facing the Russian front of reality. There was nothing there that people wanted any more. It hadn't even been any fun in years. And new people had the internet to quickly see through the lies. If only the corpse could come up with just the right slick plan, the tide would change. Sadly, there are still a few privates on the lines thinking that victory is just around the corner.
My prayer for them is that they will listen to reason and come home. If history is any guage, a few of them will die there thinking that they stayed true to a just cause.
I left within the past 5 years. TWI took my husband away from me in the process. Something I desparately did not want to happen.
Since leaving I have noticed a lot more and I have a lot more peace in my life and I'm not looking over my shoulder constantly. My neighbors, friends and co-workers have noticed it enough to make comments on it.
I have more to write, but I have to go. I'll get back to you on this one. I think it's imporant for those who are lurking to see.
Two days after the now famous "I messed up" Martindale video, I showed up at fellowship and asked my coordinator "Why was I marked and avoided for sleeping the my wife before we were married, is Martindale going to be M&Aed and what is he going to do to heal our hearts" - The coodinator refused to answer the question, and the next day I was called by the Limb Coordinator yelling at me for asking such a question about the Grand Poobah!!! A hour later I faxed a letter of resignation to my coordinator and told her to stick the Ministry up her fat butt. I never looked back, and never regretted the decision.
We left because we were sick to death of being under the thumb of a crazy man(no, not LCM, but a HFC who wanted to be him.)
We were constantly under scrutiny, being 'tattled' on to higher leadership, and the HFC had it in for me, while constantly giving hubby the good dog treatment.
It was a confusing, ugly and stress filled few years, where I wanted to leave, but hubby didn't.
Finally we were once again involved in a drama over our 'weaknesses,' and had enough.
I'm sure I've written before, but there are several points:
Seeing the "spiritually sharp" needing a lawsuit to show them that Craig was evil was one point among many.
A man was marked and avoided to coverup Craig's affair with his wife at Gunnison and a Corp person told be about it three or so years after it happened. The corps guy said "at least we aren't as bad as the catholics" and I thought, We aren't??? We are worse!
Was able to keep my family together, thank God, but there were several attacks against my family to try to break us up as well.
More harmony in the home, a promise from the Green card registration of PFAL, was a joke.
A lack of action by the ministry to rid itself of Craig's teachings was another.
Could write for days but must go pray with my kids..
May those still in be safe and smart enough to get out!
I can't remember now if it has only been 3 years or if it has been 4.
I think I have said this many times in many ways. It wasn't a knee-jurk decision. It wasn't the control, although that did have an affect on the timing of my departure. It took a little more than a little infidelity to strip me of my childhood/young adulthood beliefs. It started years earlier, trying to figure out why one would who didn't believe in God decide to believe in Him, if we were to first "believe and then see". It ended in me questioning the existence of God. It was a searching and a journey for truth. It didn't end with God or Jesus. I still would talk to people trying to defend my christian "beliefs", trying to convince them and myself.
I remember sitting thru my last Adv. Class Sp. and thinking to myself, "...that is of course if the Bible is the WOG"...."that is of course if God really told Paul (such and such)" and on and on.
It was that first session of the class...The integrity of da Word. It just took me fourteen years to figure out that I couldn't answer the question.
I also left for many reasons, like many of the others posters on this thread.
The main reason was that I was tired of being treated like I wasn't a responsible adult. I felt I was being held back in many ways - from my career to my social life. It was smothering me. I felt I gave it my all for years and years - it was never enough, was it? They always wanted more. It became a nonreciprocating relationship. The Word that was being taught was stale, the fellowships were plastic, and the love of/for God seemed to be dead.
I left because I felt I had no real future with the ministry. I carefully explored my options and still came up with the same answer. That was that.
Throughout the early to mid-nineties it was a low-level disgust at the hypocrisy at the local level (wasn't yet aware of the higher levels), people who mouthed "The Word", yet didn't practice it.
In the mid to late nineties it was the rising discomfort at the incessant meddling by so-called leadership.
When the Allen lawsuit was announced it started a progressive questioning of all TWI's practices, as well as it's core doctrines.
Eventually they kicked me out, primarily for posting on Waydale & Grease Spot Cafe.
I left 1 years 10 months and a few weeks ago. Once I made the decision to leave, I have NEVER regretted it and never looked back to that horrible hell hole.
I left because:
I had a Nazi fellow.... coord who wanted to tell me how to live my live. She told me I could not fly across the country to visit my boyfriend when I had no job. I told her that I would let her know when I got back and to not schedule me to teach. she asked me why I didn't include her in my decision to move. Afterall there is safety in a multitiude of counselors. I told her I was not confused about my decision and didn't need her insight. My BC told me that my boyfriend and I had not better make anyone uncomfortable in the branch with our relationship or we wouldn't be able to have a ministry wedding (--> whatever...). He hadn't even moved to my town at that point, so I didn't understand why that was even being brought up.
I saw several other instances of people who were told not to start a relationship because it wasn't the best thing for the household.
I was on Staff for 5 years (3 of which were my last years in twi), and I saw the staff treated like slaves. I saw leadership even more hypocritical. TWI was the worst working conditions I ever worked in as far as harassment and hostile work environments. I was paid a lousy salary and was expected to act like God was meeting my need.
I saw that my life in twi was a BIG FAT LIE!!!! I didn't have the right to believe whatever I wanted in to my power, to tell God what to do and how I wanted Him to do it, and I realized I had no relationship with Him.
Sure, there is hypocracy in places of employment and churches, but hypocracy is the worst when you proclaim yourself to be the only one to have the truth and to be the only who receives from God. TWI is a farce. I'm glad I got the H out.
I am not a recent outie. I have been out now close to twelve years after being in it twelve years. My last days I was harassed so bad for the most insignificant things that I actually prayed to God to help me get out. Problem was I had no place to live and I was an Apprentice Corpse that had planned to go WOW. After praying, and in fact, while praying, an old friend of mine appeared and asked if I would help him fix his apartment up with placing panel, building closets and repairing a ceiling. He had no money to pay me so he offered to let me move in rent free for six months.
After that I got a major job and never looked back. But the harassment did not end there. Former fellowship wayfers either called or wrote letters to harass me telling me I was "bewitched" or "out of fellowship", "not following leadership", "possessed", and "off the Word". On one phone call, a fellowship coordinator's wife called me and advised me that I was outside God's protection, off the word, and I had some explaining to do." I then asked her to get her husband, the Corpse fellowship coordinator on the phone, and advised him that if he or his wife ever called, wrote, or contacted me again, I would personally come to their home and "explain" myself in his face, several times, and not let up, and not care if I spent jail time because of it. In other words, I got somewhat violent on the phone and physically threatened him.
He hung up on me. No one in my area ever called or wrote to me again, but I did hear through the grapevine that I was "marked and avoided".
I suppose the violent reaction was not the right way to go. I guess I could have called the police. Not sure how people would view what I did. I think I just had enough and couldn't take it anymore.
I think it really started in 1990, at HQ, when I saw the leadership's really crappy response to some things that I KNEW were very spiritual and Godly happening in my life.
It then lead to the whole of the 1990s when our leadership would give us directives, we would follow them, and they would ALWAYS find a way to blame us for something we had done wrong, and NEVER accept responsibility for having given us the directives in the first place. And having every single moment of my life scrutinized and controlled by people who didn't give a rat's butt about my needs.
I was already thinking about chucking the whole mess, when the Allen lawsuit hit. That was it. I sat in a meeting being told Craig had screwed up, but that we were all spiritually responsible to hold the ministry together, and oh by the way, we really didn't need to know what the actual charges were... it wasn't important. HUH!?!! Oh, and then they give him the assignment of "Head of Research"!?!!?!?!
It took months for the whole thing to finally happen. (Like grasshopper... wanting to leave, knowing you should leave, and actually leaving are all very different things)... but it's been less than five years and it seems like much longer, because I've gotten more accomplished in that short time than I had in the entire 20 years I was in twi.
I remember the infamous "Craig screwed up" meeting. Another thing we were told was that it was time to move on and forgive him. Huh? We hadn't even dealt with what was goind on and where he was at but it was already time to forgive him? They couldn't run past that one fast enough.
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Abigail
As of September I've been out four years. Why did I leave? There is not a single reason but more like many all combined together.
1. They hypocrisy
2. The lack of control over my own life
3. The bad advice and counselling
4. The rules against seeking advice and counselling elsewhere
5. The rules against having friends outside of TWI
6. Because my ex would not allow me to have anyone over, even other "believers", without first calling him for permission and the leader.... in the area backed him up on it. (I was by and large a prisoner in my own home).
7. I got tired of being .... on by my ex and leadership for still having some degree of my own mind left.
8. It became clear to my that what was being taught did not line up with the Bible.
9. I no longer had any friends in TWI or out of TWI and life was becoming quite lonely
10. I reached the point where facing the devil and risking death was no longer scarier or worse than facing another day living in the hell I was in with my marriage and TWI.
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Grizzy
shoot, I think this last Aug. made it 5 years, so I missed the *cut*.......
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Radar OReilly
Steve,
I think I have told you why I left, but since my five year anniversary is rapidly approaching (December 1, 1999) I have been reflecting on it.
I was a totally committed "dog soldier" for twi. I spent all of my teens (okay, I was 14 not 13) and my complete and total adult life in TWI. I did everything I was supposed to do, and after the corps I spent 9 years on staff at headquarters. I left staff after the rock in 1994, and left on 12/1/99. It took me five full years of working and living in "the world" to finally make the break.
It took me that long to realize that even active church go-ers don't act "en mass" and "vote en mass." The real God fearing people, real Bible believers were able to have their own minds, their own thoughts, their own privacy.
TWI had done a magnificent job of "scatter-feeding" their followers. Beginning in March 1989 and following, each and every month had been more consumptive of the twi followers minds and hearts.
The last few years at twi, a number of my closest friends and I all realized that martindale and his crowd were wacko, delusional and dangerous. For the sake of "the ministry" we were willing to wait it out, until someone got rid of him. As time went by, I realized that no one would ever get rid of him as things stood. He was the embodiement of evil and they were willing to just let him keep being the mog.
When I finally left....it was like a new life for me. New air to breathe, new beauty to see, new things to learn.
Radar
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JustThinking
I agree with the following points Abigail posted:
1. The hypocrisy
3. The bad advice and counselling
4. The rules against seeking advice and counselling elsewhere
9. I no longer had any friends in TWI or out of TWI and life was becoming quite lonely
================
Like Abi and others, it took more than one thing to leave something that had taken up almost my entire adult life. If I had to pick ONE thing it would be this: I no longer felt my involvement and life in TWI meant anything. No value at all. I saw myself and everyone around me having no positive impact in anyone's life, especially my own. When I did make a difference, it either had nothing to do with TWI or, at times, was despite them. When I finally faded into the woodwork, it was pretty much a non-event. I just got to sleep in on Sunday. That was about it.
I have said it many ways that TWI are dead men walking. There is no life there at all. The scandals and ridiculously poor management have sapped the heart and soul of even the most committed followers. At the end of WWII in Berlin, one could witness an awesome and terrifying meltdown of the last Nazi followers. Some woke up. Some just cried. Some saved their last bullet for themselves. And a few lived to rebuild their country. My goal is to be the latter, living a healthy, normal life. I couldn't see that happening in what the Way had become. It is impossible for even marginally sane people to ignore it's no longer hidden corruption.
Craig Martindale proclaimed the 90s as the "Decade of Victory." What a joke. My Bible says in Proverbs 13:12 that "hope deferred maketh the heart sick." In my opinion, this is what killed TWI today. Vainly trying to pretend that everything in the Land of the Prevailing Word is great when the house is burning to the ground. And even innies see it. IMO, no place was this more noticeable than witnessing. Outreach became the last, great delusion of the Way International. False and hopelessly unrealistic approaches to outreach failed and everyone knew it. There was a never ending string of "Outreach Plans." Yet another doomed push by the Wayfer Germans facing the Russian front of reality. There was nothing there that people wanted any more. It hadn't even been any fun in years. And new people had the internet to quickly see through the lies. If only the corpse could come up with just the right slick plan, the tide would change. Sadly, there are still a few privates on the lines thinking that victory is just around the corner.
My prayer for them is that they will listen to reason and come home. If history is any guage, a few of them will die there thinking that they stayed true to a just cause.
Steve!,
Sorry for the long answer.
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Belle
I left within the past 5 years. TWI took my husband away from me in the process. Something I desparately did not want to happen.
Since leaving I have noticed a lot more and I have a lot more peace in my life and I'm not looking over my shoulder constantly. My neighbors, friends and co-workers have noticed it enough to make comments on it.
I have more to write, but I have to go. I'll get back to you on this one. I think it's imporant for those who are lurking to see.
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grasshopper
i got tired of them doing the funky monkey on my heart.
.....and everything abigail says.
i realized i had become part of the problem so i got out. it took a year from initial realization to making the break.
I'm still scared of them and god at this point but getting over it.
...just a side note cult fans: i was ready to floss my forehead and grow a goatee.
just a martindale wannabe-wannabe.
what happened to your mommy and daddy little girl?
it was them!
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Digger
Two days after the now famous "I messed up" Martindale video, I showed up at fellowship and asked my coordinator "Why was I marked and avoided for sleeping the my wife before we were married, is Martindale going to be M&Aed and what is he going to do to heal our hearts" - The coodinator refused to answer the question, and the next day I was called by the Limb Coordinator yelling at me for asking such a question about the Grand Poobah!!! A hour later I faxed a letter of resignation to my coordinator and told her to stick the Ministry up her fat butt. I never looked back, and never regretted the decision.
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excathedra
((((((((((digger)))))))))) i think you're great
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Bramble
We left because we were sick to death of being under the thumb of a crazy man(no, not LCM, but a HFC who wanted to be him.)
We were constantly under scrutiny, being 'tattled' on to higher leadership, and the HFC had it in for me, while constantly giving hubby the good dog treatment.
It was a confusing, ugly and stress filled few years, where I wanted to leave, but hubby didn't.
Finally we were once again involved in a drama over our 'weaknesses,' and had enough.
The sense of freedom we felt was worth the M&A.
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excathedra
and all you other sweeties
mwah hugs mwah
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Tumbleweed Kid
I'm sure I've written before, but there are several points:
Seeing the "spiritually sharp" needing a lawsuit to show them that Craig was evil was one point among many.
A man was marked and avoided to coverup Craig's affair with his wife at Gunnison and a Corp person told be about it three or so years after it happened. The corps guy said "at least we aren't as bad as the catholics" and I thought, We aren't??? We are worse!
Was able to keep my family together, thank God, but there were several attacks against my family to try to break us up as well.
More harmony in the home, a promise from the Green card registration of PFAL, was a joke.
A lack of action by the ministry to rid itself of Craig's teachings was another.
Could write for days but must go pray with my kids..
May those still in be safe and smart enough to get out!
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lindyhopper
I can't remember now if it has only been 3 years or if it has been 4.
I think I have said this many times in many ways. It wasn't a knee-jurk decision. It wasn't the control, although that did have an affect on the timing of my departure. It took a little more than a little infidelity to strip me of my childhood/young adulthood beliefs. It started years earlier, trying to figure out why one would who didn't believe in God decide to believe in Him, if we were to first "believe and then see". It ended in me questioning the existence of God. It was a searching and a journey for truth. It didn't end with God or Jesus. I still would talk to people trying to defend my christian "beliefs", trying to convince them and myself.
I remember sitting thru my last Adv. Class Sp. and thinking to myself, "...that is of course if the Bible is the WOG"...."that is of course if God really told Paul (such and such)" and on and on.
It was that first session of the class...The integrity of da Word. It just took me fourteen years to figure out that I couldn't answer the question.
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ChasUFarley
I also left for many reasons, like many of the others posters on this thread.
The main reason was that I was tired of being treated like I wasn't a responsible adult. I felt I was being held back in many ways - from my career to my social life. It was smothering me. I felt I gave it my all for years and years - it was never enough, was it? They always wanted more. It became a nonreciprocating relationship. The Word that was being taught was stale, the fellowships were plastic, and the love of/for God seemed to be dead.
I left because I felt I had no real future with the ministry. I carefully explored my options and still came up with the same answer. That was that.
I may be crazy, but I ain't stupid!
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Oakspear
It was a seires of events and situations.
Throughout the early to mid-nineties it was a low-level disgust at the hypocrisy at the local level (wasn't yet aware of the higher levels), people who mouthed "The Word", yet didn't practice it.
In the mid to late nineties it was the rising discomfort at the incessant meddling by so-called leadership.
When the Allen lawsuit was announced it started a progressive questioning of all TWI's practices, as well as it's core doctrines.
Eventually they kicked me out, primarily for posting on Waydale & Grease Spot Cafe.
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Nottawayfer
I left 1 years 10 months and a few weeks ago. Once I made the decision to leave, I have NEVER regretted it and never looked back to that horrible hell hole.
I left because:
I had a Nazi fellow.... coord who wanted to tell me how to live my live. She told me I could not fly across the country to visit my boyfriend when I had no job. I told her that I would let her know when I got back and to not schedule me to teach. she asked me why I didn't include her in my decision to move. Afterall there is safety in a multitiude of counselors. I told her I was not confused about my decision and didn't need her insight. My BC told me that my boyfriend and I had not better make anyone uncomfortable in the branch with our relationship or we wouldn't be able to have a ministry wedding (
--> whatever...). He hadn't even moved to my town at that point, so I didn't understand why that was even being brought up.
I saw several other instances of people who were told not to start a relationship because it wasn't the best thing for the household.
I was on Staff for 5 years (3 of which were my last years in twi), and I saw the staff treated like slaves. I saw leadership even more hypocritical. TWI was the worst working conditions I ever worked in as far as harassment and hostile work environments. I was paid a lousy salary and was expected to act like God was meeting my need.
I saw that my life in twi was a BIG FAT LIE!!!! I didn't have the right to believe whatever I wanted in to my power, to tell God what to do and how I wanted Him to do it, and I realized I had no relationship with Him.
Sure, there is hypocracy in places of employment and churches, but hypocracy is the worst when you proclaim yourself to be the only one to have the truth and to be the only who receives from God. TWI is a farce. I'm glad I got the H out.
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Eagle
Abigail, I really can identify with you.
I am not a recent outie. I have been out now close to twelve years after being in it twelve years. My last days I was harassed so bad for the most insignificant things that I actually prayed to God to help me get out. Problem was I had no place to live and I was an Apprentice Corpse that had planned to go WOW. After praying, and in fact, while praying, an old friend of mine appeared and asked if I would help him fix his apartment up with placing panel, building closets and repairing a ceiling. He had no money to pay me so he offered to let me move in rent free for six months.
After that I got a major job and never looked back. But the harassment did not end there. Former fellowship wayfers either called or wrote letters to harass me telling me I was "bewitched" or "out of fellowship", "not following leadership", "possessed", and "off the Word". On one phone call, a fellowship coordinator's wife called me and advised me that I was outside God's protection, off the word, and I had some explaining to do." I then asked her to get her husband, the Corpse fellowship coordinator on the phone, and advised him that if he or his wife ever called, wrote, or contacted me again, I would personally come to their home and "explain" myself in his face, several times, and not let up, and not care if I spent jail time because of it. In other words, I got somewhat violent on the phone and physically threatened him.
He hung up on me. No one in my area ever called or wrote to me again, but I did hear through the grapevine that I was "marked and avoided".
I suppose the violent reaction was not the right way to go. I guess I could have called the police. Not sure how people would view what I did. I think I just had enough and couldn't take it anymore.
Free twelve years this November 1, 2004.
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TheHighWay
I think it really started in 1990, at HQ, when I saw the leadership's really crappy response to some things that I KNEW were very spiritual and Godly happening in my life.
It then lead to the whole of the 1990s when our leadership would give us directives, we would follow them, and they would ALWAYS find a way to blame us for something we had done wrong, and NEVER accept responsibility for having given us the directives in the first place. And having every single moment of my life scrutinized and controlled by people who didn't give a rat's butt about my needs.
I was already thinking about chucking the whole mess, when the Allen lawsuit hit. That was it. I sat in a meeting being told Craig had screwed up, but that we were all spiritually responsible to hold the ministry together, and oh by the way, we really didn't need to know what the actual charges were... it wasn't important. HUH!?!! Oh, and then they give him the assignment of "Head of Research"!?!!?!?!
It took months for the whole thing to finally happen. (Like grasshopper... wanting to leave, knowing you should leave, and actually leaving are all very different things)... but it's been less than five years and it seems like much longer, because I've gotten more accomplished in that short time than I had in the entire 20 years I was in twi.
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JustThinking
THW,
I remember the infamous "Craig screwed up" meeting. Another thing we were told was that it was time to move on and forgive him. Huh? We hadn't even dealt with what was goind on and where he was at but it was already time to forgive him? They couldn't run past that one fast enough.
JT
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