Dart started the post CC...It eneded up a matter of speculation as to who lived there..We can start a thread however we have no control over what another speculates.
I too agree with Paw; however, Sometimes threads are taken out of context and that's when bones get out of joint.
I personnally found the thread informative as to the spending by TWI...Not who lives there...Guess my mind doesn't speculate to give a damn who lives there...
I do care about who lives there, but for the purposes of GSpot I'm okay to leave the speculations alone. What I want to know is how they can justify spending our ABS money on buying a house (assuming they paid cash for it) when not one person in TWI has been able to pay cash for a house and many more are lowered in status because they financed a home.
If twi financed the home then I'm even more peeved. How is buying a house going to help "move the Word"? If renting is good enough for joe-believer then why isn't it good enough for whoever they did buy the house for?
How can they buy a house for someone and not pay Mrs. W's medical bills?
I know a FC and his wife who, for 4 years, are still working on a house they bought, remodeling, using believers time (so they don't have to pay out-side help), was told by SR that if it was his he would lite a match to it because it was in such bad shape. (warped floors, etc)
They are no where close to moving in. All for the reason of not going into debt.
"but for the purposes of GSpot I'm okay to leave the speculations alone."
Are you kidding!? Speculation has been elevated to a high art on Greaspot concerning just about every TWI topic imaginable! Why is speculation about the possibility that the former President of the Way (who has supposedly been banished from Zion due to "lack of renewed mind") might be living in a house owned by TWI, "something to be left alone?" HELLO!?
Questions abound for those of us who still have income (thousands of dollars per year!)being funnelled into TWI coffers. Why, for instance, did TWI purchase this house in Toledo in 1998? What purpose does it serve? AND YES, WHO RESIDES THERE AND FOR WHAT PURPOSE? You damn straight, we deserve some answers!
And here are some more questions of the speculative sort: What is the official status of LCM, according to the Way Ministry? Is he still "on probation"? Has he been "restored in good standing?" IF, IF, IF he is living in/on TWI property---WHY? Is he receiving some form of monetary support from TWI? If so, WHY?
And still more: Is he being paid to lay low and keep his mouth shut? If he were to start talking, what would he have to say? Might the current BOD have reason to be concerned, in the event that LCM were to start talking?
I smell a BIG RAT! And its odor wafts clean from New Knoxville to Toledo and back.
The speculation that the former and disgraced president of the Way now lives in a home owned by TWI is fair game. A photo of said home with enough information to identify its location is not fair game. This is my opinion. Official positions may vary.
Say a lurker who never posted or even registered prints out the location from D3M's thread. This lurker is the ex-husband of a woman that LCM moved in on. The ensuing adultery caused untold personal and family grief in its wake. Divorce, alcoholism, suicide - the worst sorts of things associated with addictive personalities (as in cult members) and adulterous behavior. The fellow owns a few hunting rifles and he carries a big grudge and a world of pain. Suppose one day he drives his pick-em up truck to the end of the block on Exmog Ave and waits for Bally Boy to return from work.
The local evening news tells the rest of the story, and mentions a certain website which provided the address, which the lurker had printed out, later to be found by police in the back seat of the pick-em up truck.
Maybe there's a liability issue. Maybe not. The house is fair game. Clues to the specific location/address, because it's a private residence, probably not.
I closed the thread, that is why there is no reply button.
You want to speculate? Speculate.
You are making it sound like a bad dime detective novel.
I didn't want a thread started by revealing a specific location. That link did that. I don't want that kind of liability on my hands.
And it is my understanding that the home was occupied by some local leaders at one point in the late 90's.
I have no problem with discussion of TWI having a home and speculating who is in it. I do have a problem giving the location, yes it is a matter of public record but that doesn't mean some thought shouldn't go into publicizing that info.
The town of said house, and the picture of said house, has been removed from that webpage. I believe they realize they went a bit too far in revealing too much about the said house in said town.
The speculation of if LCM lives there, is still on the page.
Paw, perhaps you might want to edit some of the latter posts that mentioned the said town, the said house was in.
Also, now that the locations have been removed, is it ok to allow the link to be posted again??
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood"..........but hey, I love to see a good Clothesline once in a while!
Paw, I understand completely about the need to stay clear of possible liability. Afterall, it IS your site and your tush on the line. Therefore, it was indeed prudent to remove the information that specified the exact location of the house in question.
The fact that TWI purchased a single family dwelling in Toledo is a possible point of interest to anyone who sends regular ABS to this organization. IF its exiled former President resides in this dwelling, it is not only a point of interest, but a reason for outrage.
The truth is yet to be told about the deal that was made between Loy Craig Martindale, and the current Leadership of TWI. There's a smoking gun (figuratively speaking) to be found somewhere that proves that 'ole Loy still sits in the cat bird's seat. It's only a matter of time...
A few of you have stated the article went to far in that a specific location was mentioned. The original article I read had the address removed.
How then is the city of Sylvania a specific location of this house? The chamber of commerce stats on this city state a population of over 40,000 and over 7000 housing units.
How exactly is that a specific location?
And if someone was internet savy enough to find this site or the other where the info was, why wouldn't that same person not be able to do as another poster did an make a call and get the real exact address with street number.
If the story said Toledo with a population of 3,000,000, would that be also said to be a specific location?
Are you guys saying that the story should just have said TWI owns a house in Ohio?
CC, I don't know about you, but this site and WayDale have been life savers for me. If Paw says he doesn't want something discussed on this site, it's none of my business why, it's my business to respect his wishes. He doesn't owe me (or you, for that matter) any thing.
Am I appalled that twi is buying a house that lcm is probably living in? yes! absolutely! But I understood that Paw didn't want it discussed on this site and I respect his wishes. If you're paying him to maintain this site then I owe you an apology - otherwise....
JT, that number of people paying cash for a house probably fits on one hand - OR - they had enough equity in houses they were mortgaging to use to buy a smaller house. If they started with nothing - no inheritance - no lottery, etc. then I'd love to know how they managed rent and savings to pay cash for a house.
The fact is, it's not as easy as lcm and the bod say it is and that it's none of their busijness what I do with my money.
Thanks, although I said discussion was fine. My ONLY concern was giving enough information that anyone could find the exact address of that home.
Just because something is listed in the public record somewhere, doesn't mean it should be broadcast and that is MY opinion. From the information that was originally up on the link, I was able to find the exact address in less than 5 minutes.
I trust that the majority of people with that information at hand would deal with it in an honest and upstanding manner. But QQ's example really showed the potential danger of doing that. I have had information come to me on many occasions that revealed the locations of many ex-way leaders, having that information doesn't give me the right to hand it over to the public on this website. What purpose does it serve?
The fact that TWI owns a house in Toledo is not, in itself, that significant in my opinion, especially since who lives there is all speculation.
Lastly, let me say I am speaking for this site only, I certainly don't want to judge what is and is not allowable on other sites.
[This message was edited by pawtucket on February 01, 2004 at 20:37.]
My original post contained only a link to exwayworld and the question "Can anyone confirm if this is true"
THATS IT!!!!!!!!!!!!
the link mentioned the town that the property was listed in...no address...and a picture of the house with no house number or street sign
as far as speculation Pawtucket your homepage of GS- which I assume you wrote or at least support- contains more unsubstantiated speculation than most can shake a stick at
It amazes me that as soon as some unquestionable fact is posted that you close the thread...
as far as liability I can appreciate that- but for some reason I can't seem to buy that explaination- I think there is more to your closing the thread than meets the eye
If I left the text after taking out the link, your post would have looked pretty silly.
The link contained enough information to pinpoint the specific address.
The deletion had NOTHING to do with the speculation, but you don't want to comprehend that. You are free to speculate to your heart's content about the matter.
There is nothing more that meets the eye, Dart. I even explained the reason to the administrator of the site in question. If I owed an explanation to anyone, it would have been him, certainly not you.
Darts - Pawtucket is *extremely* lenient about the material that gets posted here.
If you are truly so offended by him editing your post, may I suggest that you start your own website and post things there to your heart's content?
That way, when you delete your own posts, you can blame only yourself and accuse only yourself of having a hidden agenda. And you can send yourself some flame emails denouncing everything you do.
Umm, the preceding comments are meant humorously, not intended to offend.
Well, the part about Pawtucket being lenient was serious.
Paw - I understand your stance on deleting the link
Its closing the thread that you still have not justified.
Do you "need" to explain anything to me- of course not - do you owe me a justification - absolutely not- You don't owe me anything.
On the other hand the question becomes what responsibilty do you have here- seriously- there are many innocent people who are easily beguiled who come here-many of which who have just had theirs spirit crushed - do you have any responsibilty to report only the facts to them? I would hope so.
The thread was based on property specific information. I believe I said speculation is fine, just not specific information about the location of the property in question. So that thread was closed. If you want to speculate on what it is being used for, go for it.
But that area had full time staff working there on or about the time that the property was purchased.
how many homes does TWI own, many I'm sure, many that may not be in the TWI name on paper. if they go as far as we have seen them go in court and personal lives, it's not to far fetched that they would buy homes and have them put in other peoples names.
I guess to me it doesn't matter who lives there, that would be easy to find out. as far as where "ole' loyboy" lives that would be even easier to find out. of course I did spend alot of time as a detective so these things come to me easily.
on a personal note, CC, I love your posts and think you are purty dern cute ;)-->
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sadie
Dart started the post CC...It eneded up a matter of speculation as to who lived there..We can start a thread however we have no control over what another speculates.
I too agree with Paw; however, Sometimes threads are taken out of context and that's when bones get out of joint.
I personnally found the thread informative as to the spending by TWI...Not who lives there...Guess my mind doesn't speculate to give a damn who lives there...
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insurgent
I do care about who lives there, but for the purposes of GSpot I'm okay to leave the speculations alone. What I want to know is how they can justify spending our ABS money on buying a house (assuming they paid cash for it) when not one person in TWI has been able to pay cash for a house and many more are lowered in status because they financed a home.
If twi financed the home then I'm even more peeved. How is buying a house going to help "move the Word"? If renting is good enough for joe-believer then why isn't it good enough for whoever they did buy the house for?
How can they buy a house for someone and not pay Mrs. W's medical bills?
Something does smell awful in New Knoxville.
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JustThinking
__________________________
Insurgent:
when not one person in TWI has been able to pay cash for a house
----------------------------
Actually, I knew a number of folks in TWI who were able to pay cash for a house.
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sadie
I know a FC and his wife who, for 4 years, are still working on a house they bought, remodeling, using believers time (so they don't have to pay out-side help), was told by SR that if it was his he would lite a match to it because it was in such bad shape. (warped floors, etc)
They are no where close to moving in. All for the reason of not going into debt.
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Cherished Child
"but for the purposes of GSpot I'm okay to leave the speculations alone."
Are you kidding!? Speculation has been elevated to a high art on Greaspot concerning just about every TWI topic imaginable! Why is speculation about the possibility that the former President of the Way (who has supposedly been banished from Zion due to "lack of renewed mind") might be living in a house owned by TWI, "something to be left alone?" HELLO!?
Questions abound for those of us who still have income (thousands of dollars per year!)being funnelled into TWI coffers. Why, for instance, did TWI purchase this house in Toledo in 1998? What purpose does it serve? AND YES, WHO RESIDES THERE AND FOR WHAT PURPOSE? You damn straight, we deserve some answers!
And here are some more questions of the speculative sort: What is the official status of LCM, according to the Way Ministry? Is he still "on probation"? Has he been "restored in good standing?" IF, IF, IF he is living in/on TWI property---WHY? Is he receiving some form of monetary support from TWI? If so, WHY?
And still more: Is he being paid to lay low and keep his mouth shut? If he were to start talking, what would he have to say? Might the current BOD have reason to be concerned, in the event that LCM were to start talking?
I smell a BIG RAT! And its odor wafts clean from New Knoxville to Toledo and back.
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Raf
The speculation that the former and disgraced president of the Way now lives in a home owned by TWI is fair game. A photo of said home with enough information to identify its location is not fair game. This is my opinion. Official positions may vary.
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QamiQazi
Say a lurker who never posted or even registered prints out the location from D3M's thread. This lurker is the ex-husband of a woman that LCM moved in on. The ensuing adultery caused untold personal and family grief in its wake. Divorce, alcoholism, suicide - the worst sorts of things associated with addictive personalities (as in cult members) and adulterous behavior. The fellow owns a few hunting rifles and he carries a big grudge and a world of pain. Suppose one day he drives his pick-em up truck to the end of the block on Exmog Ave and waits for Bally Boy to return from work.
The local evening news tells the rest of the story, and mentions a certain website which provided the address, which the lurker had printed out, later to be found by police in the back seat of the pick-em up truck.
Maybe there's a liability issue. Maybe not. The house is fair game. Clues to the specific location/address, because it's a private residence, probably not.
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pamsandiego
Yeah... what Raf and QQ said. I happen to share many of your questions CC. Posting specifics about location are the only concern.
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pawtucket
Cherished Child,
I closed the thread, that is why there is no reply button.
You want to speculate? Speculate.
You are making it sound like a bad dime detective novel.
I didn't want a thread started by revealing a specific location. That link did that. I don't want that kind of liability on my hands.
And it is my understanding that the home was occupied by some local leaders at one point in the late 90's.
I have no problem with discussion of TWI having a home and speculating who is in it. I do have a problem giving the location, yes it is a matter of public record but that doesn't mean some thought shouldn't go into publicizing that info.
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WrestlenotAgainst
The town of said house, and the picture of said house, has been removed from that webpage. I believe they realize they went a bit too far in revealing too much about the said house in said town.
The speculation of if LCM lives there, is still on the page.
Paw, perhaps you might want to edit some of the latter posts that mentioned the said town, the said house was in.
Also, now that the locations have been removed, is it ok to allow the link to be posted again??
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood"..........but hey, I love to see a good Clothesline once in a while!
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Cherished Child
Paw, I understand completely about the need to stay clear of possible liability. Afterall, it IS your site and your tush on the line. Therefore, it was indeed prudent to remove the information that specified the exact location of the house in question.
The fact that TWI purchased a single family dwelling in Toledo is a possible point of interest to anyone who sends regular ABS to this organization. IF its exiled former President resides in this dwelling, it is not only a point of interest, but a reason for outrage.
The truth is yet to be told about the deal that was made between Loy Craig Martindale, and the current Leadership of TWI. There's a smoking gun (figuratively speaking) to be found somewhere that proves that 'ole Loy still sits in the cat bird's seat. It's only a matter of time...
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IMF777
A few of you have stated the article went to far in that a specific location was mentioned. The original article I read had the address removed.
How then is the city of Sylvania a specific location of this house? The chamber of commerce stats on this city state a population of over 40,000 and over 7000 housing units.
How exactly is that a specific location?
And if someone was internet savy enough to find this site or the other where the info was, why wouldn't that same person not be able to do as another poster did an make a call and get the real exact address with street number.
If the story said Toledo with a population of 3,000,000, would that be also said to be a specific location?
Are you guys saying that the story should just have said TWI owns a house in Ohio?
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insurgent
CC, I don't know about you, but this site and WayDale have been life savers for me. If Paw says he doesn't want something discussed on this site, it's none of my business why, it's my business to respect his wishes. He doesn't owe me (or you, for that matter) any thing.
Am I appalled that twi is buying a house that lcm is probably living in? yes! absolutely! But I understood that Paw didn't want it discussed on this site and I respect his wishes. If you're paying him to maintain this site then I owe you an apology - otherwise....
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insurgent
JT, that number of people paying cash for a house probably fits on one hand - OR - they had enough equity in houses they were mortgaging to use to buy a smaller house. If they started with nothing - no inheritance - no lottery, etc. then I'd love to know how they managed rent and savings to pay cash for a house.
The fact is, it's not as easy as lcm and the bod say it is and that it's none of their busijness what I do with my money.
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Oakspear
...if TWI decides to take legal action?
I only see one hand going up...that's who gets to make calls like this.
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is
Oakspear
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pawtucket
insurgent,
Thanks, although I said discussion was fine. My ONLY concern was giving enough information that anyone could find the exact address of that home.
Just because something is listed in the public record somewhere, doesn't mean it should be broadcast and that is MY opinion. From the information that was originally up on the link, I was able to find the exact address in less than 5 minutes.
I trust that the majority of people with that information at hand would deal with it in an honest and upstanding manner. But QQ's example really showed the potential danger of doing that. I have had information come to me on many occasions that revealed the locations of many ex-way leaders, having that information doesn't give me the right to hand it over to the public on this website. What purpose does it serve?
The fact that TWI owns a house in Toledo is not, in itself, that significant in my opinion, especially since who lives there is all speculation.
Lastly, let me say I am speaking for this site only, I certainly don't want to judge what is and is not allowable on other sites.
[This message was edited by pawtucket on February 01, 2004 at 20:37.]
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Dartanian3m
for the record...
My original post contained only a link to exwayworld and the question "Can anyone confirm if this is true"
THATS IT!!!!!!!!!!!!
the link mentioned the town that the property was listed in...no address...and a picture of the house with no house number or street sign
as far as speculation Pawtucket your homepage of GS- which I assume you wrote or at least support- contains more unsubstantiated speculation than most can shake a stick at
It amazes me that as soon as some unquestionable fact is posted that you close the thread...
as far as liability I can appreciate that- but for some reason I can't seem to buy that explaination- I think there is more to your closing the thread than meets the eye
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pawtucket
Dart,
If I left the text after taking out the link, your post would have looked pretty silly.
The link contained enough information to pinpoint the specific address.
The deletion had NOTHING to do with the speculation, but you don't want to comprehend that. You are free to speculate to your heart's content about the matter.
There is nothing more that meets the eye, Dart. I even explained the reason to the administrator of the site in question. If I owed an explanation to anyone, it would have been him, certainly not you.
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Steve!
Darts - Pawtucket is *extremely* lenient about the material that gets posted here.
If you are truly so offended by him editing your post, may I suggest that you start your own website and post things there to your heart's content?
That way, when you delete your own posts, you can blame only yourself and accuse only yourself of having a hidden agenda. And you can send yourself some flame emails denouncing everything you do.
Umm, the preceding comments are meant humorously, not intended to offend.
Well, the part about Pawtucket being lenient was serious.
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Dartanian3m
Paw - I understand your stance on deleting the link
Its closing the thread that you still have not justified.
Do you "need" to explain anything to me- of course not - do you owe me a justification - absolutely not- You don't owe me anything.
On the other hand the question becomes what responsibilty do you have here- seriously- there are many innocent people who are easily beguiled who come here-many of which who have just had theirs spirit crushed - do you have any responsibilty to report only the facts to them? I would hope so.
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pawtucket
Dart,
Number 1 I don't have to justify it.
The thread was based on property specific information. I believe I said speculation is fine, just not specific information about the location of the property in question. So that thread was closed. If you want to speculate on what it is being used for, go for it.
But that area had full time staff working there on or about the time that the property was purchased.
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papajohn
how many homes does TWI own, many I'm sure, many that may not be in the TWI name on paper. if they go as far as we have seen them go in court and personal lives, it's not to far fetched that they would buy homes and have them put in other peoples names.
I guess to me it doesn't matter who lives there, that would be easy to find out. as far as where "ole' loyboy" lives that would be even easier to find out. of course I did spend alot of time as a detective so these things come to me easily.
on a personal note, CC, I love your posts and think you are purty dern cute
;)-->
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mzimagine
I know who lives there and why TWI bought it.
It is soooo not an issue.
All rumors are false.
If you are looking for something controversial, look elsewhere.
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