I have no idea why you are so hateful, rude and defensive. But it is so inappropriate to "say" such nasty things to people. Nobody is picking on you! Nobody is asking you to solve their problem, in fact, you'd be the last person I'd ask to do anything other than....
PLEASE LEAVE this thread. You are doing lots of harm and no good to anyone, including yourself.
Tough question, CW. I think most people do not like to stand out from a crowd. Not that they are all deperate to belong, but that they don't want to be in the spotlight. Standing up to TWI would have put them in the spotlight, with possibly the same negative reactions you were getting.
Do we confront every person we see doing something wrong? No. Do we tell the young person smoking on a sidewalk that he shouldn't do that? Not usually. Do we tell the drunk on the street where he can go for help? Probably not. Why not? We ratonalize: we don't have time to get involved, the person may get hostile with us, we don't know all the facts, it would be rude to intrude. As a society, we don't poke our noses in other people's business. It's not considered polite.
I think that attitude tends to spill over into things where we SHOULD have gotten involved, such as when we observed abusive situations in TWI. It is one of the dichotomies I saw in the Corps: we were told that we were the ones who were supposed to stand up and declare "It Is Written," but in practice, standing up to leadership got us ignored or worse, slandered or M&A'ed.
I'm sure I am not completely describing your situation, CW, and I agree, people should have stood up for what was right. I feel sorry for you that few did.
I think people did stand up for what they thought was right , and it cost them alot .
people listened to twi at a very high price thinking they were doing the right thing all along until they got thrown out or the price was just to much.
Cw...I have to say that to my shame, I did not stand up....I was never aware of the sexual or physical abuse...but I stood by watching children be screamed at and brow beaten it was never physical)....I was not a parent...so I bought the explanations given by the leadership why such treatment was necessary....it is to my great shame....I wish that I could apologise to each child that I stood in silence and watched as their spirit was broken.
In later years ... I was on my way out the door...I was very frustrated that my young children were not what they were supposed to be in the tc`s eyes...I always thought it was my fault and that of my children....rather than the rediculous expectations of the tc.
Gosh I am glad that we don`t have to endure that rediculous torture.....
The kids were miserable...I was ashamed of them...it never dawned on me that it wasn`t us in the wrong.
I trusted the wrong people as well. to this day I have a much larger degree of mistrust for those who claim to know whats best for me .
I think that was a common outcome , when ya realize it was not genuine concern or care that came first and got hurt you may still think the world is out to get ya! they taught that for sure.
But I also think many did care about others they just did not see a way out of the circle of people pleasing and wanted to grow in the twi tree more than others.
what i try to do is trust really just take people at their word and be wise in my own choices in life and find the the strength to say no when I want or need to.
I learned this by facing it , If I have a thought that somone may be thinking or planning something that may would hurt me instead of assuming evil I ask , it has ben a huge blessing from God to find out in experience that 90% of what you think is an evil plot is not and can be worked out in a very reasonable fashion. I also found the ability to take responsibility to make my own choices and own the outcome of them.
folks lost their ability to chose for goodness while in twi, because twi became more important than God or their own self or the ones they loved.
my sis will often say to me "you think to much". twi taught people to look for devil spirit in everyone and thing in life is it no wonder all the joy was ripped away and people got paranoid and fearful.
All the accusations of devil spirts folks couldnt breath without thinking it was an attack from the devil to kill them, that cant be healthy can it?
people trusted the wrong people and they got hurt then people began to point fingers and seeing devils everywhere in everyone and thing it was out of control.
?? Twi didn`t become more important....twi convinced us that they knew the bible well enough to tell us what God expected/demanded/required of his committede believers.. they utlized the respect that they garnered in Gods name and scripture to claim authority that wasn`t theirs.... we foolishly trusted these people who masqueraded as ministers...we were decieved plain and simple ...most of us.
I didn`t do things abhorant to myself because I wanted to please ANYONE.......I did it because Twi...the group that taught me about God...that claimed to teach me how God worked...told me that God REQUIRED me to do these things...
I did these things because I trusted those who represented God...I didn`t listen to the voice of reason in my head and heart because these same representatives for God said that if it contradicted what they said ...that it was satan trying to trick me away from God....
You are trying to paint alot of people with a very broad brush mj, and while what you posted may have applied to some....it certainly was not true for many of us....
Many of us were simply naieve young people that were decieved....you make it sound so ugly when you say the only reason that were coerced into making horrible choices...and doing bad things was that we wanted to be people pleasers.
It is ugly and a personal affront to the many of us who were simply trying to be good people the only way we knew how ... in service to God.
Our motives were pure...our enthusiasm was genuine...we were simply taken in by cunning, accomplished cons....it happens ...usually we smarten up after the first time we get snookered.
My post was not intended to point fingers, draw out "confessions", shame, etc. My post was intended to express what I felt at the time, how I feel sometimes now, and get people to think...
And not particularly people who are posting and interacting here...
I read the accounts here that do not make logical sense to any one who loves themselves at all. If God is Love as was tuaght why would He ask anyone to hurt themself? He didnt people may have and that is who people obeyed .
look at the nice houses many of the clergy lived in and the poverty many had does that not say alot?
why was it that some hurt more than others? and over and over again? sometimes becvause they demanded advise and consel from the wrong people unable to help their own self or trust God for answers. Some had the ability to say to others your nuts and I refuse or just no in general I spent alot of time saying no while involved. some got angry I didnt care it came down to the bible for me if it ws a huge issue, God would never harm us ever and each had the spirit to walk within and be safe.
I do not believe He (God)would ask a parent to leave a sick child to attend a twi function unless it was a good outcome but people would and did to please another person they esteemed or to get their own personal kicks. Saying no to those you trust is dfficult but if they really love you they would understand God first and family is more important than anything. and that is why many got thrown out because the life had gotten to the point they couldnt manage even simple tasks without going to leadership to tell them what to do . insane . sure it was a risk to say no you bet that is the reason many were thrown out or left.
Oh I know NOW ..trust me..God didn`t require these things of me...mj....but at the time I trusted the people who had *taught me God`s word*...
I trusted them when they told me that God required these things of me...THAT is what is so heinous about twi....God didn`t need/desire/care for us to do the things we were ordered to do in his name...it was never the leaders we were disobeying...it was never leaders we were mistrusting...it was God (we were taught) ....I couldn`t bring myself to say no to him.
I could have said no to twi and no to people...that was no problem ...as I had stood up to my family and disobeyed/disowned them at twi`s recomendation....
I did horrible things because I WAS putting *God first* in the only way that I knew how....as taught to me by the only people I knew to represent God.....
it never dawned on me that it wasn`t us in the wrong.
And that, rascal, is what makes twi a cult and not just some harmless church down the street.
Even if it ever did just begin to dawn upon any of us, there were people all around us that jumped on the dawning with vengence and putrid spewings of blame...the mentality sometimes witnessed right here on GSC...
But because there are so many here at GSC to shout "Don't you believe it for one minute!", those of us who have not yet learned proper boundaries need not be taken in...need not accept that hard-heartedness taught by twi...
I'm very thankful for this aspect of GSC!
After spending more than half of my life listening to the blame, the shame, the holier-than-thou diatriabes of twi-think, it is difficult in my weak times to withstand the mentality.
I did some stupid things that I wish I had not done--because I thought that not doing them would be disobeying God. And I blame those who taught me these things---however I also blame myself for believing them and obeying them. No one ever forced us to do what we were told. We chose to do them out of our own ignorance and stupidity.
unwanted mental illnes, family drama, bad backgrounds, evil people twi was a Zoo of what humanity is I cling to what is good in every area in my life.
I could take this as a oppurtunity to sing Gods praise of mighty deliverence in my life and I think I will.
Rascal
we all did that to some point, until we had enough or it hit the nerve raw enough to get kicked out. I find no shame in life and the lessons I have learned. I do not blame others for being human any more than I will blame myself.
Jesus Commandeed we love one another and to put God first. that is a simple formula for success in what ever we take in life.
I look at twi as people and I love people some where abused more than others and often times those very same people handed abuse and bad advise or ill treatment to others. Each of us had to learn our life lesson and yes the fact we were young and maybe stupid about how this happens plays a factor on just how it got so out of control.
the difference I see from you and I isI understood it was an organization that said it was a bible research group I understood humans hurt one another sometimes in fact often times and the larger the group the more this type of stuff can and does happen.
many from dysfunction clung to twi like it was God, and it was not it was just people .
well...ok...and I believe that these were false ministers ....the wolves in sheeps clothing seeking whom they may devour....
I also think that their actions brand them as men of the flesh....
I think that there was a vast difference between those doing the stealing...and those being stolen from...I by no means see us all lumped into the same catagory.
There was a lot of untreated mental illness in twi...sure...but I think that Twi created a lot of it...or exacerbated existing conditions with some.....a Godly organisation would have ministered to folks (and some within twi did no doubt) ...in contrast with twi leaders taking them for everything that they could get and then booting em out when their usefullness was exhausted....
quote:The Bible prescribes answers, but Christian leaders must first describe the exact nature of the problem. Pastors might not be able to help a mentally ill person in a crisis mode, but they can preserve the relationship until stabilization. At all times the families are the church's responsibility. Once the problem is understood, the Bible has great relevance to the needs and questions among families of the mentally ill. These families comprise a huge, overlooked target group for evangelism, and helping them also brings interaction and ministry with unsaved leaders in many diverse professions. Evangelicals lose opportunities from failing to address this need through awkwardness, ignorance, and withdrawal. In reality, there is a wide open door for potential ministry.
(I neither promote nor agree with most of what is said on this site.)
Let me preface my comments by saying that I neither care nor read whatever mj posts.
What I believe happened is that a) many of us were conditioned to believe that leadership knew what was better for our lives that we ourselves did and, as a s result, followed very unwise and ungodly counsel that we thought was Godly counsel or were bullied into following.
b) people followed rules and recommendations based on what they thought would promote them in the eyes of leadership.
People in category A (of which there were many) are blameless. They made wrong decisions and maybe didn't go with their gut feelings, but they were manipulated into doing so. People in Category B knew exactly what they were doing and did it anyway. Example: the LC/RC who counseled many women who were spiritually abused and raped by LCM.
I did some things I'm not proud of and have apologized to the people I know I have affected by my inaction. Anywone else I learn of as having been hurt by my inability to stand up for what I knew was obviously wrong, I would apologize to immediately. I only wish many others (some who post on this board) would do.
I had divorced my second husband in the year 2000. (I had been out of TWI for over 15 years by then. My ex left when he met me a decade ago, but returned to TWI after the divorce.) At that time, he had free and open visitation with our son, then age 9. But he was not allowed to involve him in TWI in any way, as per our divorce settlement.
It seemed that my son was becoming depressed, so I wanted to have him see a counselor, a LCSW in town. It was difficult to convince my son to go, as my ex had spoken badly to him about shrinks. (Something he later denied doing, but was confirmed by my daughter.) My ex was to bring him after he got out of school. Instead, he met with the LCSW that morning. I do not know what was said, but it prompted the counselor to cancel the appointment without contacting me, and suddenly fill her schedule so that we could not meet with her at all. Since I have sole legal custody of our son, such a move was unethical on her part -- she should not even have been talking with ex -- but there was nothing to be done.
I eventually got my son the help he needed, but by then he was much worse, almost to the point of needing to be institutionalized. He was eventually diagnosed with neuroborreliosis (Lyme disease in the brain) and is slowly recovering on antibiotics.
Perhaps if TWI had a better outlook on mental illness and on getting help for it, my ex would have allowed it, and my son would have gotten help that much sooner.
is that from a misquto (sp) bug or tick originaly?
Many had ego problems and bravado issues in twi, they could handle anything as long as some one eles or thing eles (twi) told them what or how to do it ironic isnt it?
and I suppose the answer to just why your son got worse was a attack from the devil for your parenting right?
I truly believe lack of common sense breeds insanity .
A tick bite, mj. Which we never saw. He never had the telltale rash, joint aches, or flu symptoms.
And as for my ex, "bravado" is an understatement. And yes, having just received a letter from him today, he thinks it is all my fault. The letter was laughable, and if it says anything about the TWI mindset today, then TWI is truly insane.
What I believe happened is that a) many of us were conditioned to believe that leadership knew what was better for our lives that we ourselves did and, as a s result, followed very unwise and ungodly counsel that we thought was Godly counsel or were bullied into following.
b) people followed rules and recommendations based on what they thought would promote them in the eyes of leadership.
People in category A (of which there were many) are blameless. They made wrong decisions and maybe didn't go with their gut feelings, but they were manipulated into doing so. People in Category B knew exactly what they were doing and did it anyway. Example: the LC/RC who counseled many women who were spiritually abused and raped by LCM.
I did some things I'm not proud of and have apologized to the people I know I have affected by my inaction. Anywone else I learn of as having been hurt by my inability to stand up for what I knew was obviously wrong, I would apologize to immediately. I only wish many others (some who post on this board) would do.
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CoolWaters
Ask and I shall receive! No standing by and watching from Steve! !
OK...now let me not repeat old behaviors!
:D-->
TYVM Steve! .
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Watered Garden
MJ
There you go again...(sigh)
I have no idea why you are so hateful, rude and defensive. But it is so inappropriate to "say" such nasty things to people. Nobody is picking on you! Nobody is asking you to solve their problem, in fact, you'd be the last person I'd ask to do anything other than....
PLEASE LEAVE this thread. You are doing lots of harm and no good to anyone, including yourself.
WG
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shazdancer
Tough question, CW. I think most people do not like to stand out from a crowd. Not that they are all deperate to belong, but that they don't want to be in the spotlight. Standing up to TWI would have put them in the spotlight, with possibly the same negative reactions you were getting.
Do we confront every person we see doing something wrong? No. Do we tell the young person smoking on a sidewalk that he shouldn't do that? Not usually. Do we tell the drunk on the street where he can go for help? Probably not. Why not? We ratonalize: we don't have time to get involved, the person may get hostile with us, we don't know all the facts, it would be rude to intrude. As a society, we don't poke our noses in other people's business. It's not considered polite.
I think that attitude tends to spill over into things where we SHOULD have gotten involved, such as when we observed abusive situations in TWI. It is one of the dichotomies I saw in the Corps: we were told that we were the ones who were supposed to stand up and declare "It Is Written," but in practice, standing up to leadership got us ignored or worse, slandered or M&A'ed.
I'm sure I am not completely describing your situation, CW, and I agree, people should have stood up for what was right. I feel sorry for you that few did.
Regards,
Shaz
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mj412
I think people did stand up for what they thought was right , and it cost them alot .
people listened to twi at a very high price thinking they were doing the right thing all along until they got thrown out or the price was just to much.
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rascal
Cw...I have to say that to my shame, I did not stand up....I was never aware of the sexual or physical abuse...but I stood by watching children be screamed at and brow beaten it was never physical)....I was not a parent...so I bought the explanations given by the leadership why such treatment was necessary....it is to my great shame....I wish that I could apologise to each child that I stood in silence and watched as their spirit was broken.
In later years ... I was on my way out the door...I was very frustrated that my young children were not what they were supposed to be in the tc`s eyes...I always thought it was my fault and that of my children....rather than the rediculous expectations of the tc.
Gosh I am glad that we don`t have to endure that rediculous torture.....
The kids were miserable...I was ashamed of them...it never dawned on me that it wasn`t us in the wrong.
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mj412
I trusted the wrong people as well. to this day I have a much larger degree of mistrust for those who claim to know whats best for me .
I think that was a common outcome , when ya realize it was not genuine concern or care that came first and got hurt you may still think the world is out to get ya! they taught that for sure.
But I also think many did care about others they just did not see a way out of the circle of people pleasing and wanted to grow in the twi tree more than others.
what i try to do is trust really just take people at their word and be wise in my own choices in life and find the the strength to say no when I want or need to.
I learned this by facing it , If I have a thought that somone may be thinking or planning something that may would hurt me instead of assuming evil I ask , it has ben a huge blessing from God to find out in experience that 90% of what you think is an evil plot is not and can be worked out in a very reasonable fashion. I also found the ability to take responsibility to make my own choices and own the outcome of them.
folks lost their ability to chose for goodness while in twi, because twi became more important than God or their own self or the ones they loved.
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mj412
my sis will often say to me "you think to much". twi taught people to look for devil spirit in everyone and thing in life is it no wonder all the joy was ripped away and people got paranoid and fearful.
All the accusations of devil spirts folks couldnt breath without thinking it was an attack from the devil to kill them, that cant be healthy can it?
people trusted the wrong people and they got hurt then people began to point fingers and seeing devils everywhere in everyone and thing it was out of control.
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rascal
?? Twi didn`t become more important....twi convinced us that they knew the bible well enough to tell us what God expected/demanded/required of his committede believers.. they utlized the respect that they garnered in Gods name and scripture to claim authority that wasn`t theirs.... we foolishly trusted these people who masqueraded as ministers...we were decieved plain and simple ...most of us.
I didn`t do things abhorant to myself because I wanted to please ANYONE.......I did it because Twi...the group that taught me about God...that claimed to teach me how God worked...told me that God REQUIRED me to do these things...
I did these things because I trusted those who represented God...I didn`t listen to the voice of reason in my head and heart because these same representatives for God said that if it contradicted what they said ...that it was satan trying to trick me away from God....
You are trying to paint alot of people with a very broad brush mj, and while what you posted may have applied to some....it certainly was not true for many of us....
Many of us were simply naieve young people that were decieved....you make it sound so ugly when you say the only reason that were coerced into making horrible choices...and doing bad things was that we wanted to be people pleasers.
It is ugly and a personal affront to the many of us who were simply trying to be good people the only way we knew how ... in service to God.
Our motives were pure...our enthusiasm was genuine...we were simply taken in by cunning, accomplished cons....it happens ...usually we smarten up after the first time we get snookered.
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CoolWaters
{{{{{Shaz}}}}}
{{{{{rascal}}}}}
My post was not intended to point fingers, draw out "confessions", shame, etc. My post was intended to express what I felt at the time, how I feel sometimes now, and get people to think...
And not particularly people who are posting and interacting here...
But I always think of the lurkers...
Especially those still "in"...
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mj412
I read the accounts here that do not make logical sense to any one who loves themselves at all. If God is Love as was tuaght why would He ask anyone to hurt themself? He didnt people may have and that is who people obeyed .
look at the nice houses many of the clergy lived in and the poverty many had does that not say alot?
why was it that some hurt more than others? and over and over again? sometimes becvause they demanded advise and consel from the wrong people unable to help their own self or trust God for answers. Some had the ability to say to others your nuts and I refuse or just no in general I spent alot of time saying no while involved. some got angry I didnt care it came down to the bible for me if it ws a huge issue, God would never harm us ever and each had the spirit to walk within and be safe.
I do not believe He (God)would ask a parent to leave a sick child to attend a twi function unless it was a good outcome but people would and did to please another person they esteemed or to get their own personal kicks. Saying no to those you trust is dfficult but if they really love you they would understand God first and family is more important than anything. and that is why many got thrown out because the life had gotten to the point they couldnt manage even simple tasks without going to leadership to tell them what to do . insane . sure it was a risk to say no you bet that is the reason many were thrown out or left.
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rascal
Oh I know NOW ..trust me..God didn`t require these things of me...mj....but at the time I trusted the people who had *taught me God`s word*...
I trusted them when they told me that God required these things of me...THAT is what is so heinous about twi....God didn`t need/desire/care for us to do the things we were ordered to do in his name...it was never the leaders we were disobeying...it was never leaders we were mistrusting...it was God (we were taught) ....I couldn`t bring myself to say no to him.
I could have said no to twi and no to people...that was no problem ...as I had stood up to my family and disobeyed/disowned them at twi`s recomendation....
I did horrible things because I WAS putting *God first* in the only way that I knew how....as taught to me by the only people I knew to represent God.....
A far cry from people pleasing.
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CoolWaters
And that, rascal, is what makes twi a cult and not just some harmless church down the street.
Even if it ever did just begin to dawn upon any of us, there were people all around us that jumped on the dawning with vengence and putrid spewings of blame...the mentality sometimes witnessed right here on GSC...
But because there are so many here at GSC to shout "Don't you believe it for one minute!", those of us who have not yet learned proper boundaries need not be taken in...need not accept that hard-heartedness taught by twi...
I'm very thankful for this aspect of GSC!
After spending more than half of my life listening to the blame, the shame, the holier-than-thou diatriabes of twi-think, it is difficult in my weak times to withstand the mentality.
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chwester
I did some stupid things that I wish I had not done--because I thought that not doing them would be disobeying God. And I blame those who taught me these things---however I also blame myself for believing them and obeying them. No one ever forced us to do what we were told. We chose to do them out of our own ignorance and stupidity.
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CoolWaters
Not for those of us suffering with untreated mental illnesses.
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mj412
unwanted mental illnes, family drama, bad backgrounds, evil people twi was a Zoo of what humanity is I cling to what is good in every area in my life.
I could take this as a oppurtunity to sing Gods praise of mighty deliverence in my life and I think I will.
Rascal
we all did that to some point, until we had enough or it hit the nerve raw enough to get kicked out. I find no shame in life and the lessons I have learned. I do not blame others for being human any more than I will blame myself.
Jesus Commandeed we love one another and to put God first. that is a simple formula for success in what ever we take in life.
I look at twi as people and I love people some where abused more than others and often times those very same people handed abuse and bad advise or ill treatment to others. Each of us had to learn our life lesson and yes the fact we were young and maybe stupid about how this happens plays a factor on just how it got so out of control.
the difference I see from you and I isI understood it was an organization that said it was a bible research group I understood humans hurt one another sometimes in fact often times and the larger the group the more this type of stuff can and does happen.
many from dysfunction clung to twi like it was God, and it was not it was just people .
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rascal
well...ok...and I believe that these were false ministers ....the wolves in sheeps clothing seeking whom they may devour....
I also think that their actions brand them as men of the flesh....
I think that there was a vast difference between those doing the stealing...and those being stolen from...I by no means see us all lumped into the same catagory.
There was a lot of untreated mental illness in twi...sure...but I think that Twi created a lot of it...or exacerbated existing conditions with some.....a Godly organisation would have ministered to folks (and some within twi did no doubt) ...in contrast with twi leaders taking them for everything that they could get and then booting em out when their usefullness was exhausted....
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CoolWaters
From: http://www.schizophrenia.com/media/strength.htm
(I neither promote nor agree with most of what is said on this site.)
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Belle
Let me preface my comments by saying that I neither care nor read whatever mj posts.
What I believe happened is that a) many of us were conditioned to believe that leadership knew what was better for our lives that we ourselves did and, as a s result, followed very unwise and ungodly counsel that we thought was Godly counsel or were bullied into following.
b) people followed rules and recommendations based on what they thought would promote them in the eyes of leadership.
People in category A (of which there were many) are blameless. They made wrong decisions and maybe didn't go with their gut feelings, but they were manipulated into doing so. People in Category B knew exactly what they were doing and did it anyway. Example: the LC/RC who counseled many women who were spiritually abused and raped by LCM.
I did some things I'm not proud of and have apologized to the people I know I have affected by my inaction. Anywone else I learn of as having been hurt by my inability to stand up for what I knew was obviously wrong, I would apologize to immediately. I only wish many others (some who post on this board) would do.
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rascal
Thanks Belle I think that you have presented it clearly an concisely......this sums up the twi experience for me nicely.
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shazdancer
Okay, one story.
I had divorced my second husband in the year 2000. (I had been out of TWI for over 15 years by then. My ex left when he met me a decade ago, but returned to TWI after the divorce.) At that time, he had free and open visitation with our son, then age 9. But he was not allowed to involve him in TWI in any way, as per our divorce settlement.
It seemed that my son was becoming depressed, so I wanted to have him see a counselor, a LCSW in town. It was difficult to convince my son to go, as my ex had spoken badly to him about shrinks. (Something he later denied doing, but was confirmed by my daughter.) My ex was to bring him after he got out of school. Instead, he met with the LCSW that morning. I do not know what was said, but it prompted the counselor to cancel the appointment without contacting me, and suddenly fill her schedule so that we could not meet with her at all. Since I have sole legal custody of our son, such a move was unethical on her part -- she should not even have been talking with ex -- but there was nothing to be done.
I eventually got my son the help he needed, but by then he was much worse, almost to the point of needing to be institutionalized. He was eventually diagnosed with neuroborreliosis (Lyme disease in the brain) and is slowly recovering on antibiotics.
Perhaps if TWI had a better outlook on mental illness and on getting help for it, my ex would have allowed it, and my son would have gotten help that much sooner.
Regards,
Shaz
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mj412
Lyme diease of the brain?
is that from a misquto (sp) bug or tick originaly?
Many had ego problems and bravado issues in twi, they could handle anything as long as some one eles or thing eles (twi) told them what or how to do it ironic isnt it?
and I suppose the answer to just why your son got worse was a attack from the devil for your parenting right?
I truly believe lack of common sense breeds insanity .
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shazdancer
A tick bite, mj. Which we never saw. He never had the telltale rash, joint aches, or flu symptoms.
And as for my ex, "bravado" is an understatement. And yes, having just received a letter from him today, he thinks it is all my fault. The letter was laughable, and if it says anything about the TWI mindset today, then TWI is truly insane.
Shaz
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WordWolf
I thought this was worth repeating.
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shazdancer
CW, please check your PT's
Shaz
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