Have to admit that I wondered the same thing. No one noticed a stiff just sitting there? If it was NY or LA, probably not. New Knoxville in the 70s though?
George, and JT, I do not believe that this was exagerated at all...as this is not the frst time that I had heard of this particular event...it was told to me the same way... ... about the men being so hungry that the table mate took the poor guys food ... ...what WAS news for me is what they did to the poor guy....sheeshe ... I always assumed that they got him some help ...took him to a hospital.
I have also been aquainted with Evan for years and have no doubt as to his veracity.
That's how it went down. Yep. it was our third day in rez, we were a bunch of zombies in our normal state. I guess everybody at the table figured the guy was having a hard time adjusting, and hey, the food was just crying for somebody to eat it...
I know a guy that went with Kreig to the bus depot to drop off this unfortunate soul...tis true.
1.) The first week in residence there was very little food. They were feeding us out of the freezer that was there when TWI bought the place.
2.) People were very very hungry. Especially the guys.
3.) That Wally Manthey would have eaten the food off of ANY plate that wasn't guarded (LOL!)
4.) That in fact, this incident did occur.
Our second year in the Corps, one of my 8th Corps roommates was in need of a psych evaluation. I questioned why such a person would even be allowed in The Way Corps and was told that Mrs. Wierwille knew the family and had brought her there to "help" her in some way. However, she also inded up in catatonia and was in fact taken to a hospital.
But as far as the first guy is concerned, I believe it is reprehensible for LCM to be degreed in psychology and KNOW the helpless state catatonia renders a person, and dumped him off at a bus station instead of immediately taking him across the street to the hospital in Emporia where I am sure they had a psychiactric ward or someone who could do a consult.
But, that goes to show you the cold-hearted nature of that beast.
All of your stories reminds me of an incident that happened to a friend of mine and I at Emporia in the last part of 1978 early '79.
A girl that was in one of the twigs was working on a 22 rifle that she got ( TWI suggested that individuals have a handgun, rifle or shotgun in case the worst happend and we had to go underground. remember??? )
Well she happened to have the rifle loaded, in her appartment on the second floor no less, and the twig leader got ahold of my friend and had he and i go over to her place to help her to get medical treatment. And the twig leader ( who was a CORPSE grad ) told us,in no uncertian terms, NOT to let the doctors or police if they were called thet we were in the ministry. (could cause problems you know).
The girl got treated and after she got well enough i think that the leadership forced her to leave or she left on her own accord, cause i never saw her shortly after that at fellowships.
Yes, that is the way people in that condition were dealt with at Emporia when I was there, too.
One of the girls in Spring of '81 started saying crazy things and no one could communicate with her so JAL had us pack her things and put her on a bus. I helped her pack so she wouldn't get to NY without her toiletries and clothes.
At the time it struck me as an odd way to handle this sort of things--just sorta washed their hands of her.
Boy Chas, can I relate to your story. My ex was the same way. I don't know if he is bipoler, borderline or something else entirely, but there is definitely a problem. We went to marriage counselling for the last year of our marriage and the marriage counsellor saw it to. Couldn't say anything to him or help him though cause he was so steeped in TWI doctrine nothing go through.
The counselling sure helped me a lot though. The guy was doing all kinds of crazy and abusive stuff and TWI leadership pretty much had me convinced it was all my fault and if I was just a better wife, etc. Counselling helped me see I wasn't responsible for his behavior and his behavior was dangerous. Well between that and the guitar that came flying at my head at 3 a.m., I finally figured out I had to get out.
quote:so JAL had us pack her things and put her on a bus.
Exactly what he did to me and my baby in the middle of winter (early '78...the year that a blizzard had closed down most of the state of CT)...a bus "home"...where nobody knew I was coming...where I sat with my baby for days with no food, no formula, no diapers...begging believers in the area for help...believers having been "warned" by JAL not to have anything to do with me...
And when I was finally able to confront JAL about the whole situation (back in trance.net days), he apologized...after making sure that I understood that he was apoligizing for something that he had no memory of ever doing...
Which means, to me, that he must have done such a thing so often that the names and faces of the people blurred together to the point of being non-descript...
...and just how many people have been driven to suicide because of this sinister little cult?
Not only were they negligent in getting folks professional help, but they were the ones who often times drove folks crazy!
I know of a corps guy who killed himself because lcm had an affair with his wife. The wife stayed at hdqrts(to remain lcm's mistress) and the guy was booted...he killed himself a short time later.
Back in 1978 there was an extremely disturbed man who started coming to our twig...I suggested that he seek professional help but was soundly "reproved" by the local twi clergy...We were supposed to pray for him and teach him the word and that would do the trick...to make a long story short, the guy tried to burn down my house in the middle of the night...with ME in it! I caught him red handed, put out the fire, called the cops, had him thrown in jail, the judge sent him to a mental institution...I then called the twi clergy guy and told him what happened...I was ....ED! I told him that when the guy gets out of the mental institution, he could go to HIS twig and then I hung up on him!...I guess I must have had quite an angry tone in my voice because the clergy guy never brought up the incident with me again.
I just want to say to Oldiesman and all that I was as the crazy chick they put on a bus from Amarillo, TX in 1974. (was it 1974?)
Dang it, I tried to get out of going WOW anyway and my twig leader made me drop the application into the mail after I had told him my reservations.
So off I went and scared to death. You're right. I got crazier and crazier the closer we got to Amarillo. Funny thing, though, you don't think you're crazy when you really are. (So those of you who wonder sometimes if you're sane, as long as you're wondering about it, you're ok.)
OK, so then they put me on a BUS to Rochester, NY. Except that my parents weren't in Rochester, they were in Del Mar, CA. They had moved but I was so confused I thought they were still in Rochester. (Funny how they ship you off to the same earthly family they say shouldn't matter, not unless THEY can't handle you).
What do you know, I got off the bus at Oklahoma City. Like a crazy person in the middle of a friggin MANIC EPISODE is going to sit still on a BUS and remember where the heck they're going or WHY. Ok let's make that a MANIC/PSYCHOTIC episode, which is what it was. It's like you're on speed and acid at the same time.
So I get off the bus and act like a crazy person at the bus depot (which I was). Some guy who worked there took me to a room below, locked the door, jacked off in the dark, and let me out. (Good thing he wasn't a rapist)Then the police picked me up and I was in jail for three days.
While in jail, I was visited by the likes of Janis Joplin and Jimi Hendrix (in my deranged mind that is) And there was "Good Nurse and Bad Nurse." They were actually wardens. Oh it's all coming back to me now.
Bad Nurse scowled at me and reproved me. Good Nurse let me bum cigarettes and when I asked her "Is it day or night?" she replied "When you're asleep it's night and when you're awake it's day."
Turns out Good Nurse found the actual address of my parents in CA in my wallet and called my Dad who flew to OK City to take me home. I was still a total looney-toons and my Dad took me to a shrink who put me on some ridiculous dose of Thorazine and I passed out after several days of literally no sleep.
It's funny how the person who literally save my life was a NON-WAY person. Funny how the leadership PUT ME ON A BUS to get rid of me. Not that I totally blame her. I wouldn't have wanted me around either.
It's called a Manic Episode, and finally in 1998 after a few more, I got a diagnosis. I've learned to recognize their onset and stress is a trigger and subsequent lack of sleep can set it off and medication is important. In my case, I'm not constantly on meds because I have years between episodes.
I'm not saying it isn't spiritual as well. Biochemical and spiritual are both involved is what I think. Professionals don't HAVE to know the spiritual side of it. They know what works in the physical realm via medication etc and they can help people because they've been trained and educated, not like that Corps Competent to Counsel class that somebody else mentioned that I missed anyway because I was in Texas hoeing weeds.
TWI did not have a CLUE about peoples' mental problems. NOT A CLUE.
It was GOD who saw me through 1974 and GOD who saw me through the next one in 1982 after two years of HE11 in Mississippi, my wonderful Corps Assignment. I lost my mind at that Corps Week and got kicked out and sent back to CA. Funny thing, at that Corps week, there I was surrounded by the spiritual elite of the world and NO ONE even THOUGHT to minister to me. I guess I just wasn't worthy enough for God to tell them to pray for me. What? Pray for someone at Corps Week? We're all so spiritual here that no one should need THAT! And if you do need help, out you go!
And the CA limb leader the next year at my "Corps Evaluation" told me if it happened again (my losing my mind, that is) the "Devil would kill me." And I sat there thinking, "That's funny, I thought it was God who's kept me alive." But what would I know?
Did TWI know anything about people with mental problems? My opinion? They didn't know ****.
The lower down the echelon people were, the more compassion I found. And I got more help from professionals of course, uh because that's what they're trained to do, maybe?. And every psychiatrist has seen this stuff before and they're not all freaked out by such a thing.
God looks on the heart. GOD took care of me. People who had heart were kind to me in the middle of my crazy moments, not the upper leadership. They looked down their noses and judged me and figured out the next best way to get rid of me.
No wonder TWI went down the tubes. The love of God was gone very early in the game. And why I stuck around and went into the Corps and continued to play their game for a total of 15 years is something I don't totally understand. The only reason I can fathom is that I honestly thought it was God's ministry and that I was called to be there. And I believed God's Word was the truth. Still do, actually.
Today I'm still alive, despite the limb leader's prediction, because more episodes did follow. (Must not have renewed my mind ENOUGH, dang it). The Devil didn't kill, though. ha ha
Actually, God was STILL there AGAIN. Imagine that.
I have a good job, a husband, daughter, house, dog, a life. Because of GOD and HIS Goodness, sheer grace and mercy, in spite of TWI, not because of it.
((((outnabout))) I am speechless. Thank GOD that you are ok.
I am so SO gratefull that God looked after you, even when your *spiritual* family abandoned you in your time of need...
I have been haunted by the accounts here...wondering if folks ever made it to a place where they were safe.
Twi would push one mercilessly to the breaking point....assuming that we would toughen up....and then treat us like we were some dirty little secret when we failed...I am so ashamed to have been such an ardent supporter.
quote:I just want to say to Oldiesman and all that I was as the crazy chick they put on a bus from Amarillo, TX in 1974. (was it 1974?)
Outandabout, thanks for sharing. You probably don't remember me, but I remember you. The branch coordinator in Amarillo wasn't as on the ball as we thought she was. Obviously, you should have been treated much better. And I'm amazed that after all that, you went into the Corps! Anyways, thank God everything turned out ok.
When I first took PFAL, I was always amazed at the stories of deliverance in people's lives. Nothing even close happened to me. (Though, I must admit, Session 1 helped me overcome my dependence on nasal spray. Twenty-six years later, and still spray-free! But I digress. I just wanted to let you know how greatful to God I am that you found deliverance as well, even if you had to get out of TWI to do it.
(((((outandabout))))) thank you so much for your story. It is astounding, and heartbreaking. And I am so glad you are having a good life post-TWI. I think the best revenge is a life well-lived.
(((((exy))))) I hear you. You do not owe anybody participation on this thread. I wasn't thinking of you when I started it, although you have contributed much on the subject in the past, and your incite is always welcome, as much or as little as you feel comfortable talking about. Like you, I find it hard to get into this sometimes -- not because of my stuff with husband #1, because it was a long time ago, but the husband #2 stuff is recent, and we have a kid involved, so my feelings about this stuff are still pretty strong.
(((Outandabout))))) gosh, I am so sorry that happened to you and so glad God brought you through it.
You just described why I am so against these offshoot mogs pretending to be counselors or therapists. They are misrepresenting themselves at best and have no business counseling anyone to do anything because they have NO credentials.
And the worst part is after they give the person a verse to remember, the person goes away and continues to do the same thing and live the same way as they did before and never get any help!
Yes, scripture is powerful, but God gave us medical and mental health professionals for a reason.
Do you suppose that if we had had access to folks were trained better in the mental health area that we might have been able to identify the behavior of our leader(s) as one who`s actions would indicate that they were mentally unstable?
We were following a lunatic who expected implicit obediance and sold out doulos commitment.... a recipe for disaster for sure.
Could give us a clue as to why twi was so adamantly against seeking councel for mental health issues....also ...if the ministry leaders were in denial or insecure about their own mental stability...it could indicate why they would be so callous and in denial about ours.
This is extremely mild compared to the stories above, however, I am posting it because it think illustrates the policy TWI must have had that anyone who showed any need for major outside help had to be labelled "possessed" and disposed of as quickly as possible.
My son has/had ADHD. In his early teen years, we were told there is no such thing and do not put him on Ritalin again (he'd been off it while we were in Rome City), just give him some up-against-the-wall discipline.
As anyone who has dealt with this disorder knows, that kind of crap doesn't work!!!!
So we were then told, "Get rid of him. You wouldn't let a mad dog stay in your house. Take down to Pike Place Market, shove him out of the car, and drive away! Do not give this little *(***** a second thought. You will not be able to stand in the light of the present truth if you allow him to remain in your home."
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JustThinking
GSG,
Have to admit that I wondered the same thing. No one noticed a stiff just sitting there? If it was NY or LA, probably not. New Knoxville in the 70s though?
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rascal
George, and JT, I do not believe that this was exagerated at all...as this is not the frst time that I had heard of this particular event...it was told to me the same way... ... about the men being so hungry that the table mate took the poor guys food ... ...what WAS news for me is what they did to the poor guy....sheeshe ... I always assumed that they got him some help ...took him to a hospital.
I have also been aquainted with Evan for years and have no doubt as to his veracity.
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JustThinking
Rascal,
Good enough for me. Thanks much.
JT
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TheEvan
That's how it went down. Yep. it was our third day in rez, we were a bunch of zombies in our normal state. I guess everybody at the table figured the guy was having a hard time adjusting, and hey, the food was just crying for somebody to eat it...
I know a guy that went with Kreig to the bus depot to drop off this unfortunate soul...tis true.
It's twue, it's twue
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Catcup
Having been in the 6th Corps, I can vouch that:
1.) The first week in residence there was very little food. They were feeding us out of the freezer that was there when TWI bought the place.
2.) People were very very hungry. Especially the guys.
3.) That Wally Manthey would have eaten the food off of ANY plate that wasn't guarded (LOL!)
4.) That in fact, this incident did occur.
Our second year in the Corps, one of my 8th Corps roommates was in need of a psych evaluation. I questioned why such a person would even be allowed in The Way Corps and was told that Mrs. Wierwille knew the family and had brought her there to "help" her in some way. However, she also inded up in catatonia and was in fact taken to a hospital.
But as far as the first guy is concerned, I believe it is reprehensible for LCM to be degreed in psychology and KNOW the helpless state catatonia renders a person, and dumped him off at a bus station instead of immediately taking him across the street to the hospital in Emporia where I am sure they had a psychiactric ward or someone who could do a consult.
But, that goes to show you the cold-hearted nature of that beast.
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Steve!
*shudder!* If I had known about that incident when I first got involved, I woulda high-tailed it outa there!
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danteh1
All of your stories reminds me of an incident that happened to a friend of mine and I at Emporia in the last part of 1978 early '79.
A girl that was in one of the twigs was working on a 22 rifle that she got ( TWI suggested that individuals have a handgun, rifle or shotgun in case the worst happend and we had to go underground. remember??? )
Well she happened to have the rifle loaded, in her appartment on the second floor no less, and the twig leader got ahold of my friend and had he and i go over to her place to help her to get medical treatment. And the twig leader ( who was a CORPSE grad ) told us,in no uncertian terms, NOT to let the doctors or police if they were called thet we were in the ministry. (could cause problems you know).
The girl got treated and after she got well enough i think that the leadership forced her to leave or she left on her own accord, cause i never saw her shortly after that at fellowships.
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waterbuffalo
Yes, that is the way people in that condition were dealt with at Emporia when I was there, too.
One of the girls in Spring of '81 started saying crazy things and no one could communicate with her so JAL had us pack her things and put her on a bus. I helped her pack so she wouldn't get to NY without her toiletries and clothes.
At the time it struck me as an odd way to handle this sort of things--just sorta washed their hands of her.
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Abigail
Boy Chas, can I relate to your story. My ex was the same way. I don't know if he is bipoler, borderline or something else entirely, but there is definitely a problem. We went to marriage counselling for the last year of our marriage and the marriage counsellor saw it to. Couldn't say anything to him or help him though cause he was so steeped in TWI doctrine nothing go through.
The counselling sure helped me a lot though. The guy was doing all kinds of crazy and abusive stuff and TWI leadership pretty much had me convinced it was all my fault and if I was just a better wife, etc. Counselling helped me see I wasn't responsible for his behavior and his behavior was dangerous. Well between that and the guitar that came flying at my head at 3 a.m., I finally figured out I had to get out.
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CoolWaters
Exactly what he did to me and my baby in the middle of winter (early '78...the year that a blizzard had closed down most of the state of CT)...a bus "home"...where nobody knew I was coming...where I sat with my baby for days with no food, no formula, no diapers...begging believers in the area for help...believers having been "warned" by JAL not to have anything to do with me...
And when I was finally able to confront JAL about the whole situation (back in trance.net days), he apologized...after making sure that I understood that he was apoligizing for something that he had no memory of ever doing...
Which means, to me, that he must have done such a thing so often that the names and faces of the people blurred together to the point of being non-descript...
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excathedra
this subject just too much for me
like a few subjects lately
god bless y'all for speaking up about certain things
love,
me
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GrouchoMarxJr
...and just how many people have been driven to suicide because of this sinister little cult?
Not only were they negligent in getting folks professional help, but they were the ones who often times drove folks crazy!
I know of a corps guy who killed himself because lcm had an affair with his wife. The wife stayed at hdqrts(to remain lcm's mistress) and the guy was booted...he killed himself a short time later.
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Radar OReilly
Can someone find that thread?
The guy Hairy is referring to was a very dear friend of mine, this whole subject makes me very sick.
Radar
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GrouchoMarxJr
Back in 1978 there was an extremely disturbed man who started coming to our twig...I suggested that he seek professional help but was soundly "reproved" by the local twi clergy...We were supposed to pray for him and teach him the word and that would do the trick...to make a long story short, the guy tried to burn down my house in the middle of the night...with ME in it! I caught him red handed, put out the fire, called the cops, had him thrown in jail, the judge sent him to a mental institution...I then called the twi clergy guy and told him what happened...I was ....ED! I told him that when the guy gets out of the mental institution, he could go to HIS twig and then I hung up on him!...I guess I must have had quite an angry tone in my voice because the clergy guy never brought up the incident with me again.
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Radar OReilly
UH,
Go read my post on the way corps witnessing thread.
Now, many years and much *seperation* later from twi.....I am just now realizing how much I thought I knew, when I knew really very little.
ror
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Radar OReilly
Check this out....it is from an old archived thread called SUICIDE IN TWI, it is read only from the gspot archives:
http://gscafe.com/groupee/forums?a=tpc&s=9...2151#1146062151
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outandabout
I just want to say to Oldiesman and all that I was as the crazy chick they put on a bus from Amarillo, TX in 1974. (was it 1974?)
Dang it, I tried to get out of going WOW anyway and my twig leader made me drop the application into the mail after I had told him my reservations.
So off I went and scared to death. You're right. I got crazier and crazier the closer we got to Amarillo. Funny thing, though, you don't think you're crazy when you really are. (So those of you who wonder sometimes if you're sane, as long as you're wondering about it, you're ok.)
OK, so then they put me on a BUS to Rochester, NY. Except that my parents weren't in Rochester, they were in Del Mar, CA. They had moved but I was so confused I thought they were still in Rochester. (Funny how they ship you off to the same earthly family they say shouldn't matter, not unless THEY can't handle you).
What do you know, I got off the bus at Oklahoma City. Like a crazy person in the middle of a friggin MANIC EPISODE is going to sit still on a BUS and remember where the heck they're going or WHY. Ok let's make that a MANIC/PSYCHOTIC episode, which is what it was. It's like you're on speed and acid at the same time.
So I get off the bus and act like a crazy person at the bus depot (which I was). Some guy who worked there took me to a room below, locked the door, jacked off in the dark, and let me out. (Good thing he wasn't a rapist)Then the police picked me up and I was in jail for three days.
While in jail, I was visited by the likes of Janis Joplin and Jimi Hendrix (in my deranged mind that is) And there was "Good Nurse and Bad Nurse." They were actually wardens. Oh it's all coming back to me now.
Bad Nurse scowled at me and reproved me. Good Nurse let me bum cigarettes and when I asked her "Is it day or night?" she replied "When you're asleep it's night and when you're awake it's day."
Turns out Good Nurse found the actual address of my parents in CA in my wallet and called my Dad who flew to OK City to take me home. I was still a total looney-toons and my Dad took me to a shrink who put me on some ridiculous dose of Thorazine and I passed out after several days of literally no sleep.
It's funny how the person who literally save my life was a NON-WAY person. Funny how the leadership PUT ME ON A BUS to get rid of me. Not that I totally blame her. I wouldn't have wanted me around either.
It's called a Manic Episode, and finally in 1998 after a few more, I got a diagnosis. I've learned to recognize their onset and stress is a trigger and subsequent lack of sleep can set it off and medication is important. In my case, I'm not constantly on meds because I have years between episodes.
I'm not saying it isn't spiritual as well. Biochemical and spiritual are both involved is what I think. Professionals don't HAVE to know the spiritual side of it. They know what works in the physical realm via medication etc and they can help people because they've been trained and educated, not like that Corps Competent to Counsel class that somebody else mentioned that I missed anyway because I was in Texas hoeing weeds.
TWI did not have a CLUE about peoples' mental problems. NOT A CLUE.
It was GOD who saw me through 1974 and GOD who saw me through the next one in 1982 after two years of HE11 in Mississippi, my wonderful Corps Assignment. I lost my mind at that Corps Week and got kicked out and sent back to CA. Funny thing, at that Corps week, there I was surrounded by the spiritual elite of the world and NO ONE even THOUGHT to minister to me. I guess I just wasn't worthy enough for God to tell them to pray for me. What? Pray for someone at Corps Week? We're all so spiritual here that no one should need THAT! And if you do need help, out you go!
And the CA limb leader the next year at my "Corps Evaluation" told me if it happened again (my losing my mind, that is) the "Devil would kill me." And I sat there thinking, "That's funny, I thought it was God who's kept me alive." But what would I know?
Did TWI know anything about people with mental problems? My opinion? They didn't know ****.
The lower down the echelon people were, the more compassion I found. And I got more help from professionals of course, uh because that's what they're trained to do, maybe?. And every psychiatrist has seen this stuff before and they're not all freaked out by such a thing.
God looks on the heart. GOD took care of me. People who had heart were kind to me in the middle of my crazy moments, not the upper leadership. They looked down their noses and judged me and figured out the next best way to get rid of me.
No wonder TWI went down the tubes. The love of God was gone very early in the game. And why I stuck around and went into the Corps and continued to play their game for a total of 15 years is something I don't totally understand. The only reason I can fathom is that I honestly thought it was God's ministry and that I was called to be there. And I believed God's Word was the truth. Still do, actually.
Today I'm still alive, despite the limb leader's prediction, because more episodes did follow. (Must not have renewed my mind ENOUGH, dang it). The Devil didn't kill, though. ha ha
Actually, God was STILL there AGAIN. Imagine that.
I have a good job, a husband, daughter, house, dog, a life. Because of GOD and HIS Goodness, sheer grace and mercy, in spite of TWI, not because of it.
Just had to get that out. Love to you all.
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rascal
((((outnabout))) I am speechless. Thank GOD that you are ok.
I am so SO gratefull that God looked after you, even when your *spiritual* family abandoned you in your time of need...
I have been haunted by the accounts here...wondering if folks ever made it to a place where they were safe.
Twi would push one mercilessly to the breaking point....assuming that we would toughen up....and then treat us like we were some dirty little secret when we failed...I am so ashamed to have been such an ardent supporter.
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oldiesman
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GeorgeStGeorge
Outandabout, et al.,
When I first took PFAL, I was always amazed at the stories of deliverance in people's lives. Nothing even close happened to me. (Though, I must admit, Session 1 helped me overcome my dependence on nasal spray. Twenty-six years later, and still spray-free! But I digress. I just wanted to let you know how greatful to God I am that you found deliverance as well, even if you had to get out of TWI to do it.
George
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shazdancer
(((((outandabout))))) thank you so much for your story. It is astounding, and heartbreaking. And I am so glad you are having a good life post-TWI. I think the best revenge is a life well-lived.
(((((exy))))) I hear you. You do not owe anybody participation on this thread. I wasn't thinking of you when I started it, although you have contributed much on the subject in the past, and your incite is always welcome, as much or as little as you feel comfortable talking about. Like you, I find it hard to get into this sometimes -- not because of my stuff with husband #1, because it was a long time ago, but the husband #2 stuff is recent, and we have a kid involved, so my feelings about this stuff are still pretty strong.
Take care,
Shaz
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waterbuffalo
(((Outandabout))))) gosh, I am so sorry that happened to you and so glad God brought you through it.
You just described why I am so against these offshoot mogs pretending to be counselors or therapists. They are misrepresenting themselves at best and have no business counseling anyone to do anything because they have NO credentials.
And the worst part is after they give the person a verse to remember, the person goes away and continues to do the same thing and live the same way as they did before and never get any help!
Yes, scripture is powerful, but God gave us medical and mental health professionals for a reason.
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rascal
Amen and amen water buffelo....
Do you suppose that if we had had access to folks were trained better in the mental health area that we might have been able to identify the behavior of our leader(s) as one who`s actions would indicate that they were mentally unstable?
We were following a lunatic who expected implicit obediance and sold out doulos commitment.... a recipe for disaster for sure.
Could give us a clue as to why twi was so adamantly against seeking councel for mental health issues....also ...if the ministry leaders were in denial or insecure about their own mental stability...it could indicate why they would be so callous and in denial about ours.
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Watered Garden
This is extremely mild compared to the stories above, however, I am posting it because it think illustrates the policy TWI must have had that anyone who showed any need for major outside help had to be labelled "possessed" and disposed of as quickly as possible.
My son has/had ADHD. In his early teen years, we were told there is no such thing and do not put him on Ritalin again (he'd been off it while we were in Rome City), just give him some up-against-the-wall discipline.
As anyone who has dealt with this disorder knows, that kind of crap doesn't work!!!!
So we were then told, "Get rid of him. You wouldn't let a mad dog stay in your house. Take down to Pike Place Market, shove him out of the car, and drive away! Do not give this little *(***** a second thought. You will not be able to stand in the light of the present truth if you allow him to remain in your home."
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