Because you were with them years and years, I can't believe everything was bad in your life. It goes against human nature to want to stay there so long. That's why I can't believe a word you say. You're just unbelievable.
Let it go, Oldies. My experience and yours were not the same as Rascal's. I'm sad that she still has that much hurt in her heart, but it's not your place to chastise her for it.
Well, Oldies, I had a bunch. Lots of hurt too, for sure.
I met my best friend in TWI.
Genuinely helped many people. (In a way that may not be possible anymore. No intention of registering them for anything)
An example? My first tc and I cleaned up the local church's playground and repaired it as they were mostly elderly and had very little money. He was a carpenter and the neighborhood kids liked to play there. They invited us to their church one Sunday to thank us in front of the congregation. Gee, can you tell that was a LONG time ago?
Many evenings discussing things in the Bible with another friend also in TWI. (He is way gone also for a number of years)
Worked at the Rock for a corps lady I really liked. Very intelligent and sweet. (Carla in food services) Our state wasn't even assigned there. It was either a total fluke or God meant for me to be there. She thought I was a corps person because we had the same first name and I happened to wander through. (I was lost 'cause it was my first time at the ROA) She told me I was supposed to work for her and seemed to know my name. So I stayed.
Bunch more too. Finding out what some folks were up to was a sad day for me. Watching the screaming forehead killed it the rest of the way for me.
I think this is an important thread for people to deeply consider within themselves.
In someways, I agree with George, some ways, with Oldies....can you say dichotomy (never mind SAY it, can I SPELL IT?
It is almost easier for me to say WHEN during my 28 years "in" that I was HAPPY, than try and define when it was that I stopped being happy.
The so called honeymoon.....in some ways it lasted the entire time of my tenure, because no matter where I was and at what time in twi history....there were always some GREAT PEOPLE, there to fellowship with, hang out with and share hearts with. The people I met along the way were awesome....it was the *church hierarchy* and directives from the higher life forms that often made life ALMOST unbearable.
I have incredibly sweet memories of various twigs and specific people....I also have memories of LIVING hell that comprised various twigs and specific people.
I loved my interim year, I LOVED going LEAD my last year in residence. I hated MOST but not all of my time on staff at hq, but the most horrible time definitely came after 1994-the end of 1999. The twi *church* doctrine was finally becoming so rancid that even a total wayfer such as myself had trouble sleeping. I hated the witch hunts, the purging of the *spiritually slothful and dishonest" and I was disgusted as I watched my friends and I die on the vine.
After 5 years.....and all those years in twi, I still can't put my finger on WHEN I really, really, really knew that there was no hope, no love, no charity and no spirituality in twi. I am just so glad that I figured it out.
Actually what I was asking was something godly or nice about the people, teachings, etc.? Your good experience, something genuinely nice for you to say about it? Something godly experienced at the hands of twi? Things you feel they did, said or taught that were "right on"?
"TWI has no power over you except that which your actions allow"
OldiesMan,
Have you really truely considered all the wrong twi performed in spite all the right you had a happy time?
In the old Rock of Ages '72 film,(the long version anyway)it begins with a bunch of hippie-type groovy Christian people laughing and hugging and greeting one another with an holy kiss as they're arriving at the ROA...Bud Morgan,the film's producer,did a splendid job of capturing on film what I thought was a very happy moment,or maybe even a time period...In fact our own HapE4me (Hey Hap,you readin' this?)was one of the holy greeters...I had often wondered if that was a staged scene or if Morgan just happened to catch the moment on film as it developed(Hey,that's a pun)...
That was my first ROA,fresh out of PAFL and I think that moment on film captured how I felt about life at that time...Viet Nam was over...PALF was the solution to all the world's woes...Confess positives and you'll believe positives and nothing bad will ever happen to you...Plenty enough lovin' and huggin' and holy kissin' goin' around to make everybody happy...Of course,I was also a fifteen year old kid who hadn't yet experienced my first flat tire or severe case of heartburn....
In spite of my youthful,blissful ignorance,I seem to remember the main message carried throughout the followers of the way as one of hope,love and deliverance;a joyful uplifting message of an all powerful and loving God who wanted nothing more than to see his "keeds" happy...I've often wondered,did I just grow up,or did the message of the ministry change?...I think it was both..
Naturally with age comes more experience,and with more experience,reality...When you're car runs out of gas,you have to push it to a gas station...Putting "son of God with all power" as a qualification on a job application does not necessarily impress the personnel director...Maybe it was good to be 'happily ignorant'....
I also noticed the message of the ministry changed,and specifically,it seemed to be around 1973-74...It may have been noticeable to me because I had "tripped" out for about a year in those days...When I came back,it seemed like the focus of the teachings was less about God's great ability and willingness and the over "900 promises" in the Bible,and more about the believer taking a stand,being sold out,committed to God,via the ministry....God HAS already done this for you,now what are you going to do for him?...Sharing the good news of the Gospel no longer was a result of speaking out of the abundance of the heart,but rather our sense of urgent duty,fulfilling a requirement by God that we get the Word over U.S.A. by 1976,and save our country from the catastrophic events of a communist takeover...Fear seemed to replace love as the main energizer...
Maybe because that was about the time the way corpse started graduating and taking over the leadership roles out on the field...VPW had said he saw the need for trained leaders...Leaders trained to do what?...Carry the same message of love,joy and deliverance,or leaders trained to convey a message of an unwavering commitment and stand for God by leading believers into the next step in the way's path of righteousness?
There seems to be a certain amount of satisfaction in fulfilling what one believes is his or her's own sense of duty,or obligation...Whether that equals happiness is questionable....A totally selfless life can be a totally unhappy life...
Geo. said, "The real world is a lot harsher a taskmaster than WayWorld...."
You obviously never worked for Rosalie. :D-->
My exact words when I first announced that I was quitting staff in '86 were: "I wouldn't take this $hit out in the 'world' and I'm sure as hell not taking it here."
"Putting "son of God with all power" as a qualification on a job application does not necessarily impress the personnel director"
LOL!
Linda Z,
I would like to hear more about conditions on staff but it would probably deserve it's own thread. It was that bad, huh? Not the picture they paint for the wayfers.
I don't know about all wayfers, but I had a great time in twi from 72 to 76. There was a minor bump in the road in 77 when HQ sent a wet-behind-the-ears, Craig-wannabe, control-freak interim 6th Corps guy to "coordinate" the fellowships on our side of town. No biggie for me--I just quit going to fellowships until right before he left. :D-->
From 78 to 82 there were ups and downs for me, twi-wise.
I had a blast in the Family Corps for the most part (78-79 to 80-81). Bob M was, to me, fair and loving back then, and I really loved/enjoyed almost all the people I was with in the Family Corps and the 7th and 9th who spent time there in Indiana.
The year after I graduated was horrid. I was asked to go to a town and do a Twig Area near where I'd been out WOW on my interim year. I'm surprised they even asked me, rather than just telling me I was going. But they did and, like an idiot (anything to "move the Word," y'know), I reluctantly agreed.
In a nutshell, it was a Spandex-wearin', fancy-car-drivin', makeup-wearin', money-obsessed steel town, and I was standing there in my Corps sweats with no makeup and no money, thinking wtf have I gotten myself into?
The short version is that I never should have been given that assignment. It was not made by revelation. It was one of the worst places to send a single mom who had to support herself and child, and I couldn't have been more different from the twi people in the area. The harder I tried, the more frustrated and hurt I became (and I'm sure, obnoxious).
Next stop, HQ. That's what I'd wanted all along, to be on staff and do my part and work hard for God and live happily ever after. Ha.
First shock: Imogene A. yelling at us in our first orientation meeting during Corps week, telling us twi wasn't our mother and we had a week to find housing--of course while at the same time working our a$$es off to get ready for ROA. I thought, "Whoa! This is IT? This is the place I've longed to be???"
Despite that harsh eye opener (and others) regarding the "pillars of the church" of twi, my first couple years there (82-83 to 83-84) were, for the most part, wonderful. I was oblivious to any sexual shenanigans and had a fun, competent boss and great co-workers and friends. I avoided the Imogenes of the place as much as possible and stuck with my friends who weren't afraid to call $hit $hit instead of Shinola.
Life was good. I'd long since realized that I wasn't living in Utopia and that everyone there wasn't loving and kind, but overall, I liked it except for all the freekin' meetings!
All that changed in 85. RFR took over our dept. and it was fun no more for this kid. I don't do well with legalism, and she doled it out in huge quantities. Getting a close-up look at her in action made me realize that there were LOTS of decisions VP and the top dogs of twi made that weren't by revelation. One of his greatest failings, IMO, was poor judgment in giving people positions they had no business being in.
For me it was downhill from there. I quit my job in the spring of '86. A week after I left, Chris Gearshift delivered POP. There was nothing but turmoil from then on. Accusations and counter-accusations and power struggles. Are you loyal to twi? Are you following G##r? Do you want to follow JAL (or any one of an endless parade of other ex-twi big names)?
So the short answer is: I was happy 72-76, absent (I was with Jesus :)-->) half of 76 and almost half of 77, generally happy 78-81, miserable 81-82, generally happy 82-84, and 84-89--forget about it. :)-->
In my area there was a type of 'honeymoon' period in the early ninties, after POP, during the Galations tapes era. It didn't last long, and people began to drop like flies after that.
Hmmmmmm. I was a happy camper in the mid 70's, and up until the time docvic "lost his believing" (ie -- moved on), passed away, whatever. While he was still alive, and the leadership passed to lcm, twi still seemed to run like he (doc) would want it to, even though it was changing.
I never saw it close up, but from a distance, the coming storms were pretty evident. POP was the final straw, and the veracity of twi, and their teachings were forever in question, and under suspicion. Too many acusations were flying around for this to be a legitimate ministry.
Oldies -- Lighten up, man. Take a "chill pill". Do something to take the edge off of you're "not so discreet sarcasm" that you are directing to others. Their experience is not yours, and vice versa.
Your denigrating the experiences of those who have had bad experiences in twi is bs, and not a thing you can say will change what happened to them. Let's suppose you were in an accident, and fell off of a a ladder, lived to tell the tale, and I showed up, saying that the ladder was trustworthy, proven safe, above reproach, and then blamed you for the fall.
I, for one, would bet that you would .... and moan to High Heavan, 100% sure, that you were being picked on, and unfairly targeted. Well -- hey bro -- you are doing the same thing to those here who are honest enough to say what actually did happen to them. If you cannot accept someone else's experiences as true, just because you yourself did not go thru them, then keep quiet. They have a story to tell, and need no harassment. In your last few posts on this thread, you have shown a remarkable ability to transcend truth, and cast doubt on others who have gone through that which you have never gone though, and refuse to believe that such a thing could happen, due to those WAY coloured glasses you are wearing.
Specifically, I was pretty happy from Fall of 1990 to sometime in 1995. Our area was not particularly "tapped into HQ" during those years. In fact, our entire state was pretty much out of the loop.
I guess HQ finally realized this in 1995 because they replaced pretty much all of the leadership in our state from the limb coordinator on down to every fellowship coordinator. Things went dowhill very very quickly after that.
Have you noticed when most people were happy? It was usually when they first got in...whatever the year was...don`t you remember how newbies were treated? The love and attention showered upon them....the genuine concern in helping them grow spiritually?
I`d say that most of the *bad* times started when folks were encouraged to *grow up*...start showing their spiritual *maturity* by going wow...corpes ...adv. class...the pressure to preform ...etc
In most of the areas I was in...if you weren`t activly climbing the spiritual ladder....you were considered to be kind of a substandard 30 fold type of believer and were treated that way accordingly.
If you enrolled in the next class or were in preperation for the next rung on the ladder wow or corpes etc...you were patted on the back...lauded as a doulos...had the love and respect of our peers....who wouldn`t be happy when everyone you know treats you like a hero.
If the going was rough...the experience unpleasant...so what, we told ourselves it was ok and were happy in the knowledge that we were tough enough to do the job...and it was just satan attacking us for our stands.
I would say that the times that I was *happy* in twi were the times I was TOLD I was happy...you know...if you got a student in the next class...it was a show that you were spiritual....if a light changed to green when you were late ...it was God honoring your believing...if you were a wow that hadn`t eaten for 24 hours....you were a spiritual giant cause nothing was gonna trick us off the wow field....Jesus did it for 40 days...what was *I* complaining about?
See I think that I was *happy* because I was playing mind games with myself....you know renewed mind?
How can I be blue when I have thewordofgodlikeithasntbeenknownsincethefirstcentury ?
Car broken down? No money for repairs or even the gas to put in it if it isn`t running? well how on earth can I be miserable when i have two good legs to walk on and need the exorcise anyway (in fargo in the winter glory to God)?
I think that as we became more *committed* was drawn in closer to hq ...the veneer fell away...but by this time we were so adept at putting a happy face on everything...we didn`t realise how really bad it sucked.
I think that it takes stepping way back and viewing our whole twi experience from a distance to understand just how much of our *happy* times were simply hype.
Most here apreciate the friendships formed....seems to b the prevalent *good* if only good thing...but you would have made great friends in any intense activity that you participated in whether in or out of twi....
The last time I can remember being happy in TWI was at a ROA in 1983? I had rented a nice RV, had left the corpse, no ROA job, and met a stunning blonde from Florida whose needs and mine were "paralell" for a good part of that ROA.....
Well said. More and more was expected every step of the way. For a time in TWI II, "Doulos" was THE word used. We all had to strive to be superman/superwoman. No confessing negatives at all. Just "Dog Soldiers staked on the Verd of Truth."
The word "denial" comes to mind about now. Great course in learning to ignore realities including spiritual ones.
Actually what I was asking was something godly or nice about the people, teachings, etc.? Your good experience, something genuinely nice for you to say about it? Something godly experienced at the hands of twi? Things you feel they did, said or taught that were "right on"?
I used to love those annual sticker calendars, OM, the ones we got in the mail. Those were neat!
LOL at some-concerned for others: went to ROA in 1985, lots of memorials and etc for vp wierwille and all, and yep completely sucker punched (and also parallel as well! Love of my life etc etc went into the waycorpse...) went wow gots lots of praise and all etc. was wow in michigan close enough to the mayhem to be sucked into it, and I am amazed that even after it all years later, was still beating myself up over it. Then found gscafe realized I wasn't the crazy one. Tried an alternate group, less love there. The thread of this thread seems to be the connections made to people, and maybe that's the deal: important to connect with people. Even love 'em I guess. Perhaps not always in the parallel way...
Recommended Posts
Top Posters In This Topic
8
9
3
6
Popular Days
Sep 10
33
Sep 12
10
Sep 11
5
Sep 16
1
Top Posters In This Topic
rascal 8 posts
oldiesman 9 posts
George Aar 3 posts
JustThinking 6 posts
Popular Days
Sep 10 2004
33 posts
Sep 12 2004
10 posts
Sep 11 2004
5 posts
Sep 16 2004
1 post
excathedra
specifically speaking for myself, generally never
Link to comment
Share on other sites
GeorgeStGeorge
Let it go, Oldies. My experience and yours were not the same as Rascal's. I'm sad that she still has that much hurt in her heart, but it's not your place to chastise her for it.
George
Link to comment
Share on other sites
rascal
Thanks George, too true, our experiences were not the same, thus the conclusions we draw can differ...
I apreciate you compassion...No worries though....twi can hurt me no more...like I said...Life is good...I am content.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
JustThinking
Well, Oldies, I had a bunch. Lots of hurt too, for sure.
I met my best friend in TWI.
Genuinely helped many people. (In a way that may not be possible anymore. No intention of registering them for anything)
An example? My first tc and I cleaned up the local church's playground and repaired it as they were mostly elderly and had very little money. He was a carpenter and the neighborhood kids liked to play there. They invited us to their church one Sunday to thank us in front of the congregation. Gee, can you tell that was a LONG time ago?
Many evenings discussing things in the Bible with another friend also in TWI. (He is way gone also for a number of years)
Worked at the Rock for a corps lady I really liked. Very intelligent and sweet. (Carla in food services) Our state wasn't even assigned there. It was either a total fluke or God meant for me to be there. She thought I was a corps person because we had the same first name and I happened to wander through. (I was lost 'cause it was my first time at the ROA) She told me I was supposed to work for her and seemed to know my name. So I stayed.
Bunch more too. Finding out what some folks were up to was a sad day for me. Watching the screaming forehead killed it the rest of the way for me.
JT
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Radar OReilly
I think this is an important thread for people to deeply consider within themselves.
In someways, I agree with George, some ways, with Oldies....can you say dichotomy (never mind SAY it, can I SPELL IT?
It is almost easier for me to say WHEN during my 28 years "in" that I was HAPPY, than try and define when it was that I stopped being happy.
The so called honeymoon.....in some ways it lasted the entire time of my tenure, because no matter where I was and at what time in twi history....there were always some GREAT PEOPLE, there to fellowship with, hang out with and share hearts with. The people I met along the way were awesome....it was the *church hierarchy* and directives from the higher life forms that often made life ALMOST unbearable.
I have incredibly sweet memories of various twigs and specific people....I also have memories of LIVING hell that comprised various twigs and specific people.
I loved my interim year, I LOVED going LEAD my last year in residence. I hated MOST but not all of my time on staff at hq, but the most horrible time definitely came after 1994-the end of 1999. The twi *church* doctrine was finally becoming so rancid that even a total wayfer such as myself had trouble sleeping. I hated the witch hunts, the purging of the *spiritually slothful and dishonest" and I was disgusted as I watched my friends and I die on the vine.
After 5 years.....and all those years in twi, I still can't put my finger on WHEN I really, really, really knew that there was no hope, no love, no charity and no spirituality in twi. I am just so glad that I figured it out.
Radar
Link to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
it's hard to know when you're happy when you've never experienced your feelings
Link to comment
Share on other sites
TheSongRemainsTheSame
oldiesman
posted September 10, 2004 15:53
Actually what I was asking was something godly or nice about the people, teachings, etc.? Your good experience, something genuinely nice for you to say about it? Something godly experienced at the hands of twi? Things you feel they did, said or taught that were "right on"?
"TWI has no power over you except that which your actions allow"
OldiesMan,
Have you really truely considered all the wrong twi performed in spite all the right you had a happy time?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
simonzelotes
In the old Rock of Ages '72 film,(the long version anyway)it begins with a bunch of hippie-type groovy Christian people laughing and hugging and greeting one another with an holy kiss as they're arriving at the ROA...Bud Morgan,the film's producer,did a splendid job of capturing on film what I thought was a very happy moment,or maybe even a time period...In fact our own HapE4me (Hey Hap,you readin' this?)was one of the holy greeters...I had often wondered if that was a staged scene or if Morgan just happened to catch the moment on film as it developed(Hey,that's a pun)...
That was my first ROA,fresh out of PAFL and I think that moment on film captured how I felt about life at that time...Viet Nam was over...PALF was the solution to all the world's woes...Confess positives and you'll believe positives and nothing bad will ever happen to you...Plenty enough lovin' and huggin' and holy kissin' goin' around to make everybody happy...Of course,I was also a fifteen year old kid who hadn't yet experienced my first flat tire or severe case of heartburn....
In spite of my youthful,blissful ignorance,I seem to remember the main message carried throughout the followers of the way as one of hope,love and deliverance;a joyful uplifting message of an all powerful and loving God who wanted nothing more than to see his "keeds" happy...I've often wondered,did I just grow up,or did the message of the ministry change?...I think it was both..
Naturally with age comes more experience,and with more experience,reality...When you're car runs out of gas,you have to push it to a gas station...Putting "son of God with all power" as a qualification on a job application does not necessarily impress the personnel director...Maybe it was good to be 'happily ignorant'....
I also noticed the message of the ministry changed,and specifically,it seemed to be around 1973-74...It may have been noticeable to me because I had "tripped" out for about a year in those days...When I came back,it seemed like the focus of the teachings was less about God's great ability and willingness and the over "900 promises" in the Bible,and more about the believer taking a stand,being sold out,committed to God,via the ministry....God HAS already done this for you,now what are you going to do for him?...Sharing the good news of the Gospel no longer was a result of speaking out of the abundance of the heart,but rather our sense of urgent duty,fulfilling a requirement by God that we get the Word over U.S.A. by 1976,and save our country from the catastrophic events of a communist takeover...Fear seemed to replace love as the main energizer...
Maybe because that was about the time the way corpse started graduating and taking over the leadership roles out on the field...VPW had said he saw the need for trained leaders...Leaders trained to do what?...Carry the same message of love,joy and deliverance,or leaders trained to convey a message of an unwavering commitment and stand for God by leading believers into the next step in the way's path of righteousness?
There seems to be a certain amount of satisfaction in fulfilling what one believes is his or her's own sense of duty,or obligation...Whether that equals happiness is questionable....A totally selfless life can be a totally unhappy life...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Linda Z
Geo. said, "The real world is a lot harsher a taskmaster than WayWorld...."
You obviously never worked for Rosalie.
:D-->
My exact words when I first announced that I was quitting staff in '86 were: "I wouldn't take this $hit out in the 'world' and I'm sure as hell not taking it here."
Link to comment
Share on other sites
JustThinking
Simon,
"Putting "son of God with all power" as a qualification on a job application does not necessarily impress the personnel director"
LOL!
Linda Z,
I would like to hear more about conditions on staff but it would probably deserve it's own thread. It was that bad, huh? Not the picture they paint for the wayfers.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Linda Z
I don't know about all wayfers, but I had a great time in twi from 72 to 76. There was a minor bump in the road in 77 when HQ sent a wet-behind-the-ears, Craig-wannabe, control-freak interim 6th Corps guy to "coordinate" the fellowships on our side of town. No biggie for me--I just quit going to fellowships until right before he left.
:D-->
From 78 to 82 there were ups and downs for me, twi-wise.
I had a blast in the Family Corps for the most part (78-79 to 80-81). Bob M was, to me, fair and loving back then, and I really loved/enjoyed almost all the people I was with in the Family Corps and the 7th and 9th who spent time there in Indiana.
The year after I graduated was horrid. I was asked to go to a town and do a Twig Area near where I'd been out WOW on my interim year. I'm surprised they even asked me, rather than just telling me I was going. But they did and, like an idiot (anything to "move the Word," y'know), I reluctantly agreed.
In a nutshell, it was a Spandex-wearin', fancy-car-drivin', makeup-wearin', money-obsessed steel town, and I was standing there in my Corps sweats with no makeup and no money, thinking wtf have I gotten myself into?
The short version is that I never should have been given that assignment. It was not made by revelation. It was one of the worst places to send a single mom who had to support herself and child, and I couldn't have been more different from the twi people in the area. The harder I tried, the more frustrated and hurt I became (and I'm sure, obnoxious).
Next stop, HQ. That's what I'd wanted all along, to be on staff and do my part and work hard for God and live happily ever after. Ha.
First shock: Imogene A. yelling at us in our first orientation meeting during Corps week, telling us twi wasn't our mother and we had a week to find housing--of course while at the same time working our a$$es off to get ready for ROA. I thought, "Whoa! This is IT? This is the place I've longed to be???"
Despite that harsh eye opener (and others) regarding the "pillars of the church" of twi, my first couple years there (82-83 to 83-84) were, for the most part, wonderful. I was oblivious to any sexual shenanigans and had a fun, competent boss and great co-workers and friends. I avoided the Imogenes of the place as much as possible and stuck with my friends who weren't afraid to call $hit $hit instead of Shinola.
Life was good. I'd long since realized that I wasn't living in Utopia and that everyone there wasn't loving and kind, but overall, I liked it except for all the freekin' meetings!
All that changed in 85. RFR took over our dept. and it was fun no more for this kid. I don't do well with legalism, and she doled it out in huge quantities. Getting a close-up look at her in action made me realize that there were LOTS of decisions VP and the top dogs of twi made that weren't by revelation. One of his greatest failings, IMO, was poor judgment in giving people positions they had no business being in.
For me it was downhill from there. I quit my job in the spring of '86. A week after I left, Chris Gearshift delivered POP. There was nothing but turmoil from then on. Accusations and counter-accusations and power struggles. Are you loyal to twi? Are you following G##r? Do you want to follow JAL (or any one of an endless parade of other ex-twi big names)?
So the short answer is: I was happy 72-76, absent (I was with Jesus
:)-->) half of 76 and almost half of 77, generally happy 78-81, miserable 81-82, generally happy 82-84, and 84-89--forget about it. 
:)-->
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bramble
In my area there was a type of 'honeymoon' period in the early ninties, after POP, during the Galations tapes era. It didn't last long, and people began to drop like flies after that.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
dmiller
Hmmmmmm. I was a happy camper in the mid 70's, and up until the time docvic "lost his believing" (ie -- moved on), passed away, whatever. While he was still alive, and the leadership passed to lcm, twi still seemed to run like he (doc) would want it to, even though it was changing.
I never saw it close up, but from a distance, the coming storms were pretty evident. POP was the final straw, and the veracity of twi, and their teachings were forever in question, and under suspicion. Too many acusations were flying around for this to be a legitimate ministry.
Oldies -- Lighten up, man. Take a "chill pill". Do something to take the edge off of you're "not so discreet sarcasm" that you are directing to others. Their experience is not yours, and vice versa.
Your denigrating the experiences of those who have had bad experiences in twi is bs, and not a thing you can say will change what happened to them. Let's suppose you were in an accident, and fell off of a a ladder, lived to tell the tale, and I showed up, saying that the ladder was trustworthy, proven safe, above reproach, and then blamed you for the fall.
I, for one, would bet that you would .... and moan to High Heavan, 100% sure, that you were being picked on, and unfairly targeted. Well -- hey bro -- you are doing the same thing to those here who are honest enough to say what actually did happen to them. If you cannot accept someone else's experiences as true, just because you yourself did not go thru them, then keep quiet. They have a story to tell, and need no harassment. In your last few posts on this thread, you have shown a remarkable ability to transcend truth, and cast doubt on others who have gone through that which you have never gone though, and refuse to believe that such a thing could happen, due to those WAY coloured glasses you are wearing.
Take em off, and see the light.
-->
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Abigail
Specifically, I was pretty happy from Fall of 1990 to sometime in 1995. Our area was not particularly "tapped into HQ" during those years. In fact, our entire state was pretty much out of the loop.
I guess HQ finally realized this in 1995 because they replaced pretty much all of the leadership in our state from the limb coordinator on down to every fellowship coordinator. Things went dowhill very very quickly after that.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
rascal
Have you noticed when most people were happy? It was usually when they first got in...whatever the year was...don`t you remember how newbies were treated? The love and attention showered upon them....the genuine concern in helping them grow spiritually?
I`d say that most of the *bad* times started when folks were encouraged to *grow up*...start showing their spiritual *maturity* by going wow...corpes ...adv. class...the pressure to preform ...etc
In most of the areas I was in...if you weren`t activly climbing the spiritual ladder....you were considered to be kind of a substandard 30 fold type of believer and were treated that way accordingly.
If you enrolled in the next class or were in preperation for the next rung on the ladder wow or corpes etc...you were patted on the back...lauded as a doulos...had the love and respect of our peers....who wouldn`t be happy when everyone you know treats you like a hero.
If the going was rough...the experience unpleasant...so what, we told ourselves it was ok and were happy in the knowledge that we were tough enough to do the job...and it was just satan attacking us for our stands.
I would say that the times that I was *happy* in twi were the times I was TOLD I was happy...you know...if you got a student in the next class...it was a show that you were spiritual....if a light changed to green when you were late ...it was God honoring your believing...if you were a wow that hadn`t eaten for 24 hours....you were a spiritual giant cause nothing was gonna trick us off the wow field....Jesus did it for 40 days...what was *I* complaining about?
See I think that I was *happy* because I was playing mind games with myself....you know renewed mind?
How can I be blue when I have thewordofgodlikeithasntbeenknownsincethefirstcentury ?
Car broken down? No money for repairs or even the gas to put in it if it isn`t running? well how on earth can I be miserable when i have two good legs to walk on and need the exorcise anyway (in fargo in the winter glory to God)?
I think that as we became more *committed* was drawn in closer to hq ...the veneer fell away...but by this time we were so adept at putting a happy face on everything...we didn`t realise how really bad it sucked.
I think that it takes stepping way back and viewing our whole twi experience from a distance to understand just how much of our *happy* times were simply hype.
Most here apreciate the friendships formed....seems to b the prevalent *good* if only good thing...but you would have made great friends in any intense activity that you participated in whether in or out of twi....
Link to comment
Share on other sites
pjroberge
The last time I can remember being happy in TWI was at a ROA in 1983? I had rented a nice RV, had left the corpse, no ROA job, and met a stunning blonde from Florida whose needs and mine were "paralell" for a good part of that ROA.....
Link to comment
Share on other sites
JustThinking
PJ,
You needed and wanted to be parallel? ;-)
Rascal,
Well said. More and more was expected every step of the way. For a time in TWI II, "Doulos" was THE word used. We all had to strive to be superman/superwoman. No confessing negatives at all. Just "Dog Soldiers staked on the Verd of Truth."
The word "denial" comes to mind about now. Great course in learning to ignore realities including spiritual ones.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
pjroberge
Link to comment
Share on other sites
JustThinking
Ahhh...
The more abundant wife. ;-)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
fortunateone
The difference was like night and day for me.
1994 and 1995
One year I was told to buy a house cause I could
afford a mortgage and the very next year I was
told to get out of debt or else.......
Link to comment
Share on other sites
TheInvisibleDan
I used to love those annual sticker calendars, OM, the ones we got in the mail. Those were neat!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
andreatheflorist
LOL at some-concerned for others: went to ROA in 1985, lots of memorials and etc for vp wierwille and all, and yep completely sucker punched (and also parallel as well! Love of my life etc etc went into the waycorpse...) went wow gots lots of praise and all etc. was wow in michigan close enough to the mayhem to be sucked into it, and I am amazed that even after it all years later, was still beating myself up over it. Then found gscafe realized I wasn't the crazy one. Tried an alternate group, less love there. The thread of this thread seems to be the connections made to people, and maybe that's the deal: important to connect with people. Even love 'em I guess. Perhaps not always in the parallel way...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
oldiesman
Will do, dmiller. Thanks.
:)-->
Link to comment
Share on other sites
TheSongRemainsTheSame
quote rascal, "See I think that I was *happy* because I was playing mind games with myself....you know renewed mind?"
Right on rascal
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.