My greatest week in TWI was July of 1973, when I took PFAL at Shelter Island, NY. Imagine learning all the goodies in Pfal in one week's time, in beautiful natural surroundings. That's gotta be the best way to take PFAL, if they ever bring it back.
If you enjoyed the men gathering in a huddle competing over who knew the word by quoting and interperting the verses, women watching what their husbands were doing, cleaning and doing dishes, observing the expressions of fear on faces when remarks were made about TWI and what was happening then I guess it happened during this time period....
Fellowhips did not interact with each other. We could not plan or do anything without permission or letting leadership know. Plans became plans...never happened
I think that for just about everybody I knew (myself included) that there was a "honeymoon" period of from a few weeks to a few months where everything indeed did seem idylic.
Once that period was over, slowy the sense of obligation and duty replaced all the "goodies" of how much God loved you, and the sense of nothing but sunshine on the horizon.
In retrospect, if one is willing to finally remove their Way-colored glasses, it's easy to see that the rush of good feelings was simply the result of delusion.
Our youth and inexperience, coupled with a strong streak of idealism, made suckers out of us all.
The real world is a lot harsher a taskmaster than WayWorld, but it's also far more substantial...
George, I still believe in the promises of God. Those promises are our hope for the future. Spending an eternity in darkness, without God and without hope, is substantially mega-bleak.
There definitely have been great changes in daily TWI life since I came in (the 70s)...from remembering very well my own life, and looking at the testimony of those in more recently. Daily life and finances were not scrutinized and controlled like they evidently later became.
I have to agree with Oldies, here. Heck, George, I even remember fondly the ROA that Linda let you and me stay in her apartment. Those were good times. The fact that life (and growing up) means having duties and responsibilities doesn't make it bad.
I find WordWolf's assessment quite accurate, though, at least from my perspective. Though I voted for the 90's as the last time I thought people were really blessed in Twig, it was more of a slow downhill progression from POP. By the mid-90's, micro-management of lives and fear of leadership outweighed what joy was left.
I got in when things were starting to go downhill after POP. I didn't even know about it or what it was until WayDale.
There was definitely a "honeymoon" phase and then I started feeling the pressure to conform and turn my life over to TWI. Funny thing is I submitted and did and my life got progressively worse. I just don't understand how a normally rebellious lady like myself allowed that to happen..... -->
Sure....I would guess that the most spectacular Godly experience I had while in twi was an outstanding showing of God`s love ..... a demonstration of something so absolutely outragious...he showed me not once, but TWICE ahead of time that he was going to do it....something so crazy that I wouldn`t think that it was a coincidence ...couldn`t concieve of it actually happening....but would know that it was him.....
Why did he have to go to such enormous effort to get my attention you may ask?
Well it was because my twi leadership had so visciously slandered me...falsly declaring me possessed ...was physically violent to me....had so convinced me of my vile spiritual state that I crawled away to die spiritually ...I was devistated to the point of not being able to hear the voice of God nor see the hand that he reached to me....for nearly a year...I lived in the deepest shame...hoping the believers in my new state would not know of my degredation....ashamed and afraid to be around my brothers and sisters for fear of likewise contaminating them.....devistated beyond words because I didn`t understand how I could be what leaders who spoke for and represented God said...
It took an outstanding unquestionable miracle for me to be able to get past the crushing shame of my leaderships branding in order to believe that God could care for me.....it took an unquestionable act of God for me to be able to understand that the bc`s opinion was not His.........
So yeah there were Godly experiences...but usually it was along the lines of helping to heal the damage inflicted by twi`s false ministers......sigh
Actually what I was asking was something godly or nice about the people, teachings, etc.? Your good experience, something genuinely nice for you to say about it? Something godly experienced at the hands of twi? Things you feel they did, said or taught that were "right on"?
Rascal, all those years in twi, and you won't share one thing that was spiritually profitable and godly in your life, something really significant at the hands of twi?
Well, the most significant things that happened in my life while in twi were pretty horrible...the face meltings...the false accusations...the forced selling of my horses...forced to get rid of my dog...so many things come to mind....the tc insisting that I sell my car to him for 300 bucks...way under the value because he needed it and it would be a burden to me on the wow field....I mean gosh there were so many *significant* things....
you want to talk about warm fuzzy memories when I took pfal? well gosh let me see ...oh yeah...one of the wows that undershepherded me was killed one morning during the class....oh I missed my high school graduation party that night because of the emergency meeting...kinda put a damper on my 18th birthday the next day..and cast a pall over the pfal graduation....wow what a week..
Lessee I guess that since satan ruined my class I had to pay him back by going out wow and striking a blow for God instead of going to college two months later....
Nope oldies...seems like twi was always one long spiritual battle of trying to be spiritual enough.....trying to serve God....always falling short...unpleasant consequences for not being spiritual enough.
I guess the best fun in twi was when I was being *bad* during my 2nd wow year when we threw out the rules (with our lc`s blessing) and just had fun with God.....no classes no witnessing...just had fun...lol
Rascal, all those years involved, and you won't bear witness to anything truly godly because of twi. Not one thing of any real spiritual significance.
I see something here; you appear to be definitely sold out to speaking and thinking evil about twi, and you won't budge at all. You can't stop speaking about the bad things, pause, and reflect about anything that was genuinely good on a thread designed for that purpose. No objectivity, no let up to your relentless focusing on people's sins. Won't even share your heart to even try to communicate something nice.
Because you were with them years and years, I can't believe everything was bad in your life. It goes against human nature to want to stay there so long. That's why I can't believe a word you say. You're just unbelievable.
Maybe sometime in the future if you ever try to be somewhat honest and forthcoming with the totality of your experiences, we'd have a basis to communicate and possibly learn something from each other.
I don`t know what you THINK you see oldies, I have told you that your perceptions concerning me cannot be trusted...so let me be absolutely chrystal clear in what I am saying....
Life has been inestimably better for me since leaving twi!!! The foot has been taken off the hose so to speak....God is at work blessing me, my family...the growth in understanding....the peace of mind...the true friendships ... relationships with my bretheren out here beyond twi boundaries absolutely PALLS anything that I experienced in twi...Do you understand oldies? Life became GOOD when I left! It`s like I finally found God instead of having to work so hard to be spiritual enough ...
Once one experiences the genuine love and presence of God when liberated from twi....once one enjoys geniune friendship ...genuine spiritual growth....the spiritual desert that was twi is pretty bleak.....nothing experienced in twi could hold a candle to the genuine spiritual significant events enjoyed since leaving the darkness of twi.
You attacks on my veracity will never change the truth Oldies....I know and the God that you claim to know, knows who speaks the truth here.
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WordWolf
From what I can tell,
with a few notable exceptions,
everyone says something vaguely similar to this....
"When I first showed up, everything was idyllic.
Then things went slowly legalistic, and eventually I left
(or was kicked out for failing to cower in a prostrate manner
before a mog or moglet.)"
That suggests that it got steadily worse, slowly,
and what the late arrivals thought was pretty good was what
the early exiters would have considered a pale imitation of
what THEY showed up for.
==========
What was "good" in the good old days also seems to vary,
based on how far from a root locale you were, and how
well-connected your family was.
(In other words, humble peons who lived a few hours' drive from
a root locale were up against it.)
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oldiesman
My greatest week in TWI was July of 1973, when I took PFAL at Shelter Island, NY. Imagine learning all the goodies in Pfal in one week's time, in beautiful natural surroundings. That's gotta be the best way to take PFAL, if they ever bring it back.
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JustThinking
OM,
If that was the best week, was it downhill from there? Wasn't sure if that was what you were saying. Not that things ever get misinterpreted here. ;-)
JT
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A la prochaine
JT,
Very well put!
Now I've oftened wondered if the 'idyllic' part was only due to the fact that as a 'newbie' I was not privy to the 'at the top' happenings?
Questions that make you go ... hmmmmmmmmmmmm???
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oldiesman
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sadie
If you enjoyed the men gathering in a huddle competing over who knew the word by quoting and interperting the verses, women watching what their husbands were doing, cleaning and doing dishes, observing the expressions of fear on faces when remarks were made about TWI and what was happening then I guess it happened during this time period....
Fellowhips did not interact with each other. We could not plan or do anything without permission or letting leadership know. Plans became plans...never happened
W
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George Aar
I think that for just about everybody I knew (myself included) that there was a "honeymoon" period of from a few weeks to a few months where everything indeed did seem idylic.
Once that period was over, slowy the sense of obligation and duty replaced all the "goodies" of how much God loved you, and the sense of nothing but sunshine on the horizon.
In retrospect, if one is willing to finally remove their Way-colored glasses, it's easy to see that the rush of good feelings was simply the result of delusion.
Our youth and inexperience, coupled with a strong streak of idealism, made suckers out of us all.
The real world is a lot harsher a taskmaster than WayWorld, but it's also far more substantial...
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oldiesman
George, I still believe in the promises of God. Those promises are our hope for the future. Spending an eternity in darkness, without God and without hope, is substantially mega-bleak.
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Lifted Up
There definitely have been great changes in daily TWI life since I came in (the 70s)...from remembering very well my own life, and looking at the testimony of those in more recently. Daily life and finances were not scrutinized and controlled like they evidently later became.
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GeorgeStGeorge
I have to agree with Oldies, here. Heck, George, I even remember fondly the ROA that Linda let you and me stay in her apartment. Those were good times. The fact that life (and growing up) means having duties and responsibilities doesn't make it bad.
I find WordWolf's assessment quite accurate, though, at least from my perspective. Though I voted for the 90's as the last time I thought people were really blessed in Twig, it was more of a slow downhill progression from POP. By the mid-90's, micro-management of lives and fear of leadership outweighed what joy was left.
George
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A la prochaine
George,
That was certainly a 'hook' for me.
-->
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Belle
I got in when things were starting to go downhill after POP. I didn't even know about it or what it was until WayDale.
There was definitely a "honeymoon" phase and then I started feeling the pressure to conform and turn my life over to TWI. Funny thing is I submitted and did and my life got progressively worse. I just don't understand how a normally rebellious lady like myself allowed that to happen.....
-->
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George Aar
OM and GSG,
And just what have all the wonderful "promises" we were told about gotten you?
Unuh, believe what you like, but believing it STILL doesn't make it so. I'll take my reality undiluted (deluded?), thanks all the same...
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George Aar
Oh, and OM,
How about spending an eternity in non-existence?
Maybe not much to crow about, but not all THAT bad, really, Is it?
Whether it is or not, it very well may be what DOES await us all. Sorry,...
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oldiesman
George, it's a tragic and depressing thought. The thought of eternal nothingness doesn't exactly thrill me.
I can think of two things right off the bat: (1) spiritual/mental peace; (2) motivation to try to live in God's will.Link to comment
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rascal
God must be one mean summabeeche if it`s HIS will that you think your doing here dude.
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oldiesman
Rascal, do you care to share any experiences in twi that were godly for you? Something good?
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rascal
Sure....I would guess that the most spectacular Godly experience I had while in twi was an outstanding showing of God`s love ..... a demonstration of something so absolutely outragious...he showed me not once, but TWICE ahead of time that he was going to do it....something so crazy that I wouldn`t think that it was a coincidence ...couldn`t concieve of it actually happening....but would know that it was him.....
Why did he have to go to such enormous effort to get my attention you may ask?
Well it was because my twi leadership had so visciously slandered me...falsly declaring me possessed ...was physically violent to me....had so convinced me of my vile spiritual state that I crawled away to die spiritually ...I was devistated to the point of not being able to hear the voice of God nor see the hand that he reached to me....for nearly a year...I lived in the deepest shame...hoping the believers in my new state would not know of my degredation....ashamed and afraid to be around my brothers and sisters for fear of likewise contaminating them.....devistated beyond words because I didn`t understand how I could be what leaders who spoke for and represented God said...
It took an outstanding unquestionable miracle for me to be able to get past the crushing shame of my leaderships branding in order to believe that God could care for me.....it took an unquestionable act of God for me to be able to understand that the bc`s opinion was not His.........
So yeah there were Godly experiences...but usually it was along the lines of helping to heal the damage inflicted by twi`s false ministers......sigh
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oldiesman
Actually what I was asking was something godly or nice about the people, teachings, etc.? Your good experience, something genuinely nice for you to say about it? Something godly experienced at the hands of twi? Things you feel they did, said or taught that were "right on"?
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rascal
OOOOH you didn`t want to count the most memorable miracle that God wrought as one of my happy times in twi...ummm
So happy times that God DIDN`T play a part in is what you are asking???
Ummm probably when we had dances in the big top with acts 29 playing...sammy preyn...joyfull noise...and wow burgers...yep definatly wow burgers.
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oldiesman
Rascal, all those years in twi, and you won't share one thing that was spiritually profitable and godly in your life, something really significant at the hands of twi?
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rascal
Well, the most significant things that happened in my life while in twi were pretty horrible...the face meltings...the false accusations...the forced selling of my horses...forced to get rid of my dog...so many things come to mind....the tc insisting that I sell my car to him for 300 bucks...way under the value because he needed it and it would be a burden to me on the wow field....I mean gosh there were so many *significant* things....
you want to talk about warm fuzzy memories when I took pfal? well gosh let me see ...oh yeah...one of the wows that undershepherded me was killed one morning during the class....oh I missed my high school graduation party that night because of the emergency meeting...kinda put a damper on my 18th birthday the next day..and cast a pall over the pfal graduation....wow what a week..
Lessee I guess that since satan ruined my class I had to pay him back by going out wow and striking a blow for God instead of going to college two months later....
Nope oldies...seems like twi was always one long spiritual battle of trying to be spiritual enough.....trying to serve God....always falling short...unpleasant consequences for not being spiritual enough.
I guess the best fun in twi was when I was being *bad* during my 2nd wow year when we threw out the rules (with our lc`s blessing) and just had fun with God.....no classes no witnessing...just had fun...lol
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oldiesman
Rascal, all those years involved, and you won't bear witness to anything truly godly because of twi. Not one thing of any real spiritual significance.
I see something here; you appear to be definitely sold out to speaking and thinking evil about twi, and you won't budge at all. You can't stop speaking about the bad things, pause, and reflect about anything that was genuinely good on a thread designed for that purpose. No objectivity, no let up to your relentless focusing on people's sins. Won't even share your heart to even try to communicate something nice.
Because you were with them years and years, I can't believe everything was bad in your life. It goes against human nature to want to stay there so long. That's why I can't believe a word you say. You're just unbelievable.
Maybe sometime in the future if you ever try to be somewhat honest and forthcoming with the totality of your experiences, we'd have a basis to communicate and possibly learn something from each other.
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rascal
I don`t know what you THINK you see oldies, I have told you that your perceptions concerning me cannot be trusted...so let me be absolutely chrystal clear in what I am saying....
Life has been inestimably better for me since leaving twi!!! The foot has been taken off the hose so to speak....God is at work blessing me, my family...the growth in understanding....the peace of mind...the true friendships ... relationships with my bretheren out here beyond twi boundaries absolutely PALLS anything that I experienced in twi...Do you understand oldies? Life became GOOD when I left! It`s like I finally found God instead of having to work so hard to be spiritual enough ...
Once one experiences the genuine love and presence of God when liberated from twi....once one enjoys geniune friendship ...genuine spiritual growth....the spiritual desert that was twi is pretty bleak.....nothing experienced in twi could hold a candle to the genuine spiritual significant events enjoyed since leaving the darkness of twi.
You attacks on my veracity will never change the truth Oldies....I know and the God that you claim to know, knows who speaks the truth here.
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