quote:I don't have the privilege of sending anyone one place or the other. Nor would I want the responsibility.
I'm just tellin' ya what the man said.
Please expand on what you stated and how it relates to VPW and the BOT. We learn in the epistles that folks who are born again are heaven bound, saved, having eternal life.
quote:"Not everyone who saith unto me 'Lord, Lord,' will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven: but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven."
Are you suggesting then that VPW and others who are born again may not enter into the Kingdom of Heaven, because of their evil works?
-or-
Are you suggesting that VPW and the BOT, because of their evil works, aren't saved?
It sounds like the scriptures are saying that judging from their actions...in spite of what they think of themselves...vpw and his friends might be in trouble.....lol
More than that... we have a major contradiction of scripture. But I am interested to know what some folks believe. I still believe that VPW and the BOT are saved Christians. Therefore, I'd like to know the rationale why some folks no longer believe that, if they don't.
And I believe that their actions show vpw and the bot were wolves in sheeps clothing seeking whom they may devour....their actions are those of a man of the flesh....I think that they worked for satan....and do not accept that they were necesarily born again.
proberg....whether the intention was there from the beginning or not.......undeniable folks were stolen from...folks were killed and folks were destroyed...I do not think that God was the author of these things ...
SO intentions mean precisely squat...just look at the results of participation with twi.
quote:And I believe that their actions show vpw and the bot were wolves in sheeps clothing seeking whom they may devour....their actions are those of a man of the flesh....I think that they worked for satan....and do not accept that they were necesarily born again.
So then they are unsaved because of works of the flesh.
I didn`t say that....I said that their fruit labels them as men of the flesh....their actions convict them as wolves in sheeps clothing....leading me to believe them working for darkness.
Galations 5:19 - 21 says that the things that vp did were *works of the flesh* and that they which do these things shall NOT inherit the kingdom of God....no wiggle room period.
Galations doesn`t view these behaviors vpw indulged in regularly as momentary lapses of a good man who made mistakes....
nope that isn`t what I said...I said that galations said that they were fruit of a man of the flesh....vpw was what he was...a man of the flesh according to galations and as such (according to galations) would not have an iheritance in the kingdom of God.
Your premise is that he was a good man that made mistakes....
my premise is that galations says that he actions indicate that he was a man of the flesh...and that his behavior was fruit of who and what he was....not simply momentary lapses in judgement.
Oldies, why is is so important to you that VPW was saved and going to heaven? Is is possibly that your life mirrors his? Something else maybe?
I though it didn't matter to you if even Satan himself taught you "the Word" as long as it blessed your little socks off. I mean it's never been like you have representented yourself as any kind of team player concerned for others. You got your "Word" so what about anyone else - uncluding Wierwille?
Last I looked at the Bible, I didn't know know that teaching 'hot bible' to glassy-eyed sycophants got folks saved and to heaven.
But I do know that Wierwille repeatedly did some scandalous things to some of God's children and that the Bible says for folk like that "it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea."
quote:Your premise is that he was a good man that made mistakes....
My belief is that he did both good and evil works. But, as a matter of salvation, there is no equivocation. He was/is born again of God's spirit, because he confessed with his mouth the Lord Jesus, and believed in his heart that God hath raised him from the dead.
Also, Jesus is the lamb of God, to take away the sins of the world. Jesus suffered and was crucified because of the world's sins, God laying our sins upon Jesus, on the cross, so that you and I and Victor Paul could be saved, a la Romans 10:9.
If there are any sins a person commits that Christ didn't bare on the cross, then Christ failed, and Christ's passion is a hoax.
Now I know you don't believe that, do you?
quote:Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are [these]; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told [you] in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Take a look at those other sins besides adultery, murders, drunkeness, etc. There's envy, strife, wrath, lust, emulations, hatred etc. So you believe folks who do those aren't saved as well? Not me.
We were taught in twi that "shall not inherit the kingdom of God" must mean in the category of rewards and cannot mean no salvation, because then there's a major contradiction in the word of God.
I believe that VPW and others were saved, a la Christ's perfect sacrifice, and Roman's 10:9.
Your kidding right? you don`t think lust played a part in the adultery? you left out fornication...drunkeness...you never saw hatred? I sure did..Envy? You never saw strife? lol......
Galations is what I believe...it says that the fruit in vpw`s life define him as a man of the flesh and as such that he will have no inheritance....period...
THAT is what I believe....all of your excuses in the world will not change the fruit in his life...nor what the consequences of living as a man of the flesh.
It does make sense now, since all you seem to look at and focus on are his sins and works of the flesh, therefore naturally, that's all you're going to think has any significant meaning, from God's perspective, would be his evil works. Therefore you conclude that was the sum total of his life, end of story.
Geeze folks, if that's all God looked at and focused on in our lives, our evil works, our sins, our works of the flesh -- and condemned us forever because of it, then I think we are in some deep doo doo.
Come to think of it, he did look at all that ... and that's why he sent us a solution to all that ... he's called Jesus Christ.
quote:For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
quote:Last I looked at the Bible, I didn't know know that teaching 'hot bible' to glassy-eyed sycophants got folks saved and to heaven.
Goey, cheap shot to folks who needed to hear God's word, and got real blessed hearing and believing in Jesus Christ, and learning more about God. Shame shame shame on you.
Besides, you said once you probably got born again while in twi ... and I don't look at you as a glassy - eyed sycophant.
Galations simply tells you what kind of person one is by the fruit that he manifests...
Doesn`t matter what he did in other areas ...who personally like what he taught ...anything else....his fruit brands him and his leaders...and galations tells you what is in store for those such as he....
I am sorry that you don`t like it, your lambasting me and accusing me of focusing on sin wont change the fruit of wierwilles life nor the consequences in store for him.
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oldiesman
Catcup:
Please expand on what you stated and how it relates to VPW and the BOT. We learn in the epistles that folks who are born again are heaven bound, saved, having eternal life. Are you suggesting then that VPW and others who are born again may not enter into the Kingdom of Heaven, because of their evil works?-or-
Are you suggesting that VPW and the BOT, because of their evil works, aren't saved?
Please explain.
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rascal
It sounds like the scriptures are saying that judging from their actions...in spite of what they think of themselves...vpw and his friends might be in trouble.....lol
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oldiesman
More than that... we have a major contradiction of scripture. But I am interested to know what some folks believe. I still believe that VPW and the BOT are saved Christians. Therefore, I'd like to know the rationale why some folks no longer believe that, if they don't.
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rascal
And I believe that their actions show vpw and the bot were wolves in sheeps clothing seeking whom they may devour....their actions are those of a man of the flesh....I think that they worked for satan....and do not accept that they were necesarily born again.
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rascal
proberg....whether the intention was there from the beginning or not.......undeniable folks were stolen from...folks were killed and folks were destroyed...I do not think that God was the author of these things ...
SO intentions mean precisely squat...just look at the results of participation with twi.
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oldiesman
Interesting!
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rascal
I didn`t say that....I said that their fruit labels them as men of the flesh....their actions convict them as wolves in sheeps clothing....leading me to believe them working for darkness.
THATS what I said.
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oldiesman
Did you say that as well, or am I seeing mirages?
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rascal
Absolutely...yes, I said that and stand by it....but look at what you said that I said.
I didn`t say that it was their works that stopped them from going to heaven....
Their works and fruit and their works define who and what they are.
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oldiesman
Ok, but then what will stop them being saved?
Since you believe they aren't, perhaps you could explain why?
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rascal
Galations 5:19 - 21 says that the things that vp did were *works of the flesh* and that they which do these things shall NOT inherit the kingdom of God....no wiggle room period.
Galations doesn`t view these behaviors vpw indulged in regularly as momentary lapses of a good man who made mistakes....
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oldiesman
Ok, so it's what I said before, you believe then that they are unsaved because of works of the flesh.
Interesting!
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rascal
nope that isn`t what I said...I said that galations said that they were fruit of a man of the flesh....vpw was what he was...a man of the flesh according to galations and as such (according to galations) would not have an iheritance in the kingdom of God.
Your premise is that he was a good man that made mistakes....
my premise is that galations says that he actions indicate that he was a man of the flesh...and that his behavior was fruit of who and what he was....not simply momentary lapses in judgement.
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Goey
Oldies, why is is so important to you that VPW was saved and going to heaven? Is is possibly that your life mirrors his? Something else maybe?
I though it didn't matter to you if even Satan himself taught you "the Word" as long as it blessed your little socks off. I mean it's never been like you have representented yourself as any kind of team player concerned for others. You got your "Word" so what about anyone else - uncluding Wierwille?
Last I looked at the Bible, I didn't know know that teaching 'hot bible' to glassy-eyed sycophants got folks saved and to heaven.
But I do know that Wierwille repeatedly did some scandalous things to some of God's children and that the Bible says for folk like that "it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea."
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oldiesman
Also, Jesus is the lamb of God, to take away the sins of the world. Jesus suffered and was crucified because of the world's sins, God laying our sins upon Jesus, on the cross, so that you and I and Victor Paul could be saved, a la Romans 10:9.
If there are any sins a person commits that Christ didn't bare on the cross, then Christ failed, and Christ's passion is a hoax.
Now I know you don't believe that, do you?
Take a look at those other sins besides adultery, murders, drunkeness, etc. There's envy, strife, wrath, lust, emulations, hatred etc. So you believe folks who do those aren't saved as well? Not me.We were taught in twi that "shall not inherit the kingdom of God" must mean in the category of rewards and cannot mean no salvation, because then there's a major contradiction in the word of God.
I believe that VPW and others were saved, a la Christ's perfect sacrifice, and Roman's 10:9.
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rascal
Your kidding right? you don`t think lust played a part in the adultery? you left out fornication...drunkeness...you never saw hatred? I sure did..Envy? You never saw strife? lol......
Galations is what I believe...it says that the fruit in vpw`s life define him as a man of the flesh and as such that he will have no inheritance....period...
THAT is what I believe....all of your excuses in the world will not change the fruit in his life...nor what the consequences of living as a man of the flesh.
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oldiesman
It does make sense now, since all you seem to look at and focus on are his sins and works of the flesh, therefore naturally, that's all you're going to think has any significant meaning, from God's perspective, would be his evil works. Therefore you conclude that was the sum total of his life, end of story.
Geeze folks, if that's all God looked at and focused on in our lives, our evil works, our sins, our works of the flesh -- and condemned us forever because of it, then I think we are in some deep doo doo.
Come to think of it, he did look at all that ... and that's why he sent us a solution to all that ... he's called Jesus Christ.
John 3:16I believe John 3:16.
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Goey
Folks who truly beleive in Jesus don't normally rape young girls.
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oldiesman
That's true, but God laid on Jesus the iniquity of us all.
Perhaps you just don't truly believe it?
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oldiesman
Besides, you said once you probably got born again while in twi ... and I don't look at you as a glassy - eyed sycophant.
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pjroberge
I think the lamb of God has had most of that wool worn off by the constant stroking of satan's minions who work in the business called TWI......
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Steve!
om, people get born again in the Roman Catholic church. Does that make the pope "the man of God for our day and time and hour"?
There are some truths taught in the Mormon Church. Does that mean that Joseph Smith should have his feet kissed?
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oldiesman
Steve, I agree with you on both counts.
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rascal
Oldies...you cannot rationalise away galations.
Galations simply tells you what kind of person one is by the fruit that he manifests...
Doesn`t matter what he did in other areas ...who personally like what he taught ...anything else....his fruit brands him and his leaders...and galations tells you what is in store for those such as he....
I am sorry that you don`t like it, your lambasting me and accusing me of focusing on sin wont change the fruit of wierwilles life nor the consequences in store for him.
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