Jeff - Is it possible for you to hold any kind of discussion without posting a link to the CES website? Believe it or not, it doesn't "bless my socks off". It causes me grief that CES fell so far short of the visions we ALL had for it in its early days (before it became three guys lecturing AT the rest of us).
CES says eat the fish and throw away the bones. CES stopped trying to distinguish between fish and bones back in the mid-'90s. It's been choking on fish bones ever since, and doesn't even realize it.
Please don't get me wrong, Jeff. If it blesses you to post some of the truths you've learned, by all means ... do so. BUT, do it in your own words.
When you just post a link to an article at CES, it gives a number of bad impressions... like, you haven't expended the effort to make the material your own... or, you care so little about communicating your ideas that you won't take the time to articulate them for us... or... any number of other impressions that reek to ex-TWI folk of elitist force-feeding.
Who knows, Jeff? Maybe God wants you to write stuff on your own because YOU are the only one who can type just the right words at just the right time to reach someone with the truth.
You will never minister to anyone as well with pre-packaged "Word" as you can on a one-to-one basis, inspired with just the right word at just the right time. You can't do that with just a link to ANY website!
Would I be a party pooper if I mentioned that the Sep/Oct 1978 issue of the Way Magazine had an article titled "What Is Jesus Christ Doing Up There?" by John Seiffer (5th Corps) in it?
Would it be surprising if the contents of that article were rougly similar to the article you linked?
Please don't get me wrong, Jeff. If it blesses you to post some of the truths you've learned, by all means ... do so. BUT, do it in your own words.
Steve -- So many folks here post links to other sites (concerning a "pertinant" article, or particular "nugget" of truth), I think you should ask them all to re-state their particlar link posted, in their own words, and not just one person -- who obviously agrees with the article posted with a link to it.
If I happened across an "urban legend", post it, and someone else posts a link to Snopes refuting everything I just took the time to type out, would you expect them to re-write in their own words what Snopes had to say?? I think not.
You may think of CES as detrimental, and that is your right. But to ask Jeff, or anyone to re-write (in their own words) what is already succinctly written, is nonesense. Live links are there for easier dissemination of information, and to re-write in one's own words, defeats the purpose, reguardless of the subject.
Perhaps you see CES, ands Jeff's post's as "elitist force feeding", but with all due respect, ignoring the post is just a click away, and you can chose to NOT be "force-fed". If you ask one person to "make the material their own" before posting, please do so for all. :)-->
quote:Here a link to an article that I trust will bless your socks off!!!
Wow, you sound like John Lynn holding up a copy of the Way Magazine. Oh wait, someone already said that in so many words. I'll be just fine if nothing ever "blesses my socks off" again.
I think Steve is trying to say that posting links to articles is all Jeff does.
I think Jeff is a great guy. If he wants to just post links, that's fine with me. I'd rather hear his own words too. But if he doesn't want to do that, it's up to him. It does leave him open to the criticism, though.
quote:I am still trying to learn how to be a living epistle and not a walking concordance...
Blessing my socks off isn't what I want before I've had my coffee. :-)
I would echo Raf and others in saying my perception is that Jeff comes across as a huckster for CES by just posting links to CES propoganda.
It would be great, Jeff, to hear from YOU now. Otherwise I get flashbacks to those endless sales pitches from Corp folks to attend yet another event that will "bless my socks off." Actually, that phrase really annoys me as you don't know what I will or will not enjoy.
BTW, I was taught on many occasions in TWI that JC was my advocate and made intercession for me with the Father. Maybe you missed those teachings?
dmiller - Raf took my point, "I think Steve is trying to say that posting links is all Jeff does."
Raf often posts links to Living Epistles, but it seems he always does it at the end of a pertinent, thoughtful post. He doesn't start a WHOLE THREAD solely for the purpose of posting a link to Living Epistles.
Jeff's threads are starting to have all the discursive value of pop-up banner ads. And why is this particular thread in "About The Way" instead of "Doctrinal"? If we put threads in this forum because "Hey! The Way never taught THIS!", then we're going to wind up with a heck of a lot of threads that are only tangential to the purpose of THIS forum.
And I will add that if you don't feed the monster his posts will sink to the bottom of the page and slide off into the netherworld of page 2 and beyond.
Not only is the title of this this thread a deja vu on the title of the Way magazine article, it's deja vu all over again (thanks Yogi) with the criticisms leveled at Jeff. Where have I heard them before? -->
So if twi taught all these goodies in 1978, how can anyone possibly surmise that twi really meant (with all the venom of an evil snake) that Christ is absent from our lives?
CES gets one demerit for engaging in sneaky false finger-pointing against twi-1.
dmiller - You wrote, "Perhaps you see CES, and Jeff's posts as 'elitist force feeding', but with all due respect, ignoring the post is just a click away, and you can chose to NOT be 'force-fed'."
You miss the point, dmiller. I wrote, "When you just post a link to an article at CES, it gives a number of bad impressions... that reek to ex-TWI folk of elitist force feeding."
I don't know how much elitist force feeding YOU were required to endure, dmiller, while involved with the Way, but I, and I am sure many others also, had to sit passively, unquestioningly, through enough seemingly endless dronings to last several lifetimes.
True, I don't have to click on the link. But if I do, what do I get? Do I get lively discourse? Do I get an opportunity to ask questions? Do I get a chance to contribute things the Lord has shown me while I've worked the Word?
No. I get the same old droning that I got at Emporia and Gunnison. It DOES reek... "reek" I wrote... of the old TWI elitist force feeding.
Did you click on Jeff's link, dmiller? Did you scroll down to the place where it says, "Sorry, Comments not available for this article."
What does that suggest to you? Does it possibly "reek" of ANYTHING?
I don't know what it means. I cruised around the CES website trying to figure out what it means when it says, "Sorry, Comments not available for this article", without success.
Perhaps Jeff will wander back by and enlighten us.
Love,
Steve
P.S. - Maybe if "ignoring the post is just a click away, and you can chose to NOT be 'force-fed'" is a good policy, then Paw ought to start selling pop-up banner ad space at GreaseSpot. After all, ignoring a pop-up "is just a click away" too.
I am hoping that some folks that are still in TWI will read this post. Maybe some of you that are still at HQ might want to pass this on to the research department.
Hey, how come TWI never taught me about what my Lord (not VPW or Craig M.) is doing for me today?
So, I thought you might like to read some of that information for yourself. I found it very eye-opening....
Sad to say, too many of us have never been taught what Jesus Christ is doing today, and every day since he became the “Lord” and the “Head” of the Church, which is made up of the members of his Body.
We all know that he died for us, was raised from the dead, ascended to heaven and is now “seated” at God's right hand.
But does that mean he is “just chillin’”?
No way.
He is even busier than he was when he lived on the earth....
Here a link to an article that I trust will bless your socks off!!!
Raf often posts links to Living Epistles, but it seems he always does it at the end of a pertinent, thoughtful post. He doesn't start a WHOLE THREAD solely for the purpose of posting a link to Living Epistles.
You are right. Mea Culpa! I didn't think of it that way. Perhaps Jeff was posting the link to the article to get folks to look at it, and think about it, and perhaps not. Either way -- you are right. I apologize. :)-->
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Steve Lortz
Jeff - Is it possible for you to hold any kind of discussion without posting a link to the CES website? Believe it or not, it doesn't "bless my socks off". It causes me grief that CES fell so far short of the visions we ALL had for it in its early days (before it became three guys lecturing AT the rest of us).
CES says eat the fish and throw away the bones. CES stopped trying to distinguish between fish and bones back in the mid-'90s. It's been choking on fish bones ever since, and doesn't even realize it.
Sad.
Love,
Steve
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Steve Lortz
Please don't get me wrong, Jeff. If it blesses you to post some of the truths you've learned, by all means ... do so. BUT, do it in your own words.
When you just post a link to an article at CES, it gives a number of bad impressions... like, you haven't expended the effort to make the material your own... or, you care so little about communicating your ideas that you won't take the time to articulate them for us... or... any number of other impressions that reek to ex-TWI folk of elitist force-feeding.
Who knows, Jeff? Maybe God wants you to write stuff on your own because YOU are the only one who can type just the right words at just the right time to reach someone with the truth.
You will never minister to anyone as well with pre-packaged "Word" as you can on a one-to-one basis, inspired with just the right word at just the right time. You can't do that with just a link to ANY website!
Love,
Steve
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Mike
Jeff,
Would I be a party pooper if I mentioned that the Sep/Oct 1978 issue of the Way Magazine had an article titled "What Is Jesus Christ Doing Up There?" by John Seiffer (5th Corps) in it?
Would it be surprising if the contents of that article were rougly similar to the article you linked?
Now what was I saying the other day about memory?
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dmiller
Steve -- So many folks here post links to other sites (concerning a "pertinant" article, or particular "nugget" of truth), I think you should ask them all to re-state their particlar link posted, in their own words, and not just one person -- who obviously agrees with the article posted with a link to it.
If I happened across an "urban legend", post it, and someone else posts a link to Snopes refuting everything I just took the time to type out, would you expect them to re-write in their own words what Snopes had to say?? I think not.
You may think of CES as detrimental, and that is your right. But to ask Jeff, or anyone to re-write (in their own words) what is already succinctly written, is nonesense. Live links are there for easier dissemination of information, and to re-write in one's own words, defeats the purpose, reguardless of the subject.
Perhaps you see CES, ands Jeff's post's as "elitist force feeding", but with all due respect, ignoring the post is just a click away, and you can chose to NOT be "force-fed". If you ask one person to "make the material their own" before posting, please do so for all.
:)-->
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wwjesuslaughat
Jeff,
Dude! Why can't you just hang out at Wal-Mart during your time off like the rest of us!
:D-->
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TheInvisibleDan
Jeff --I second Mr/Mrs? Laughing Jesus.
Take a break and shoot the breeze with us
for awhile.
You're a good sport.
BTW, thank you once again for graciously giving me a copy of "One God" awhile back.
Even though I didn't agree with everything I read in it, it was an interesting read.
It was very nice of you to give me a copy.
Hope to return the favor someday.
Danny
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Jim
Wow, you sound like John Lynn holding up a copy of the Way Magazine. Oh wait, someone already said that in so many words. I'll be just fine if nothing ever "blesses my socks off" again.
Sorry, I couldn't help myself.
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Oakspear
I remember the article Mike mentioned. I've even taught most of the stuff that's in the CES article.
So Jeff, why do you think the article is so great? What did you think about it?
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dmiller
Oak -- Now that there is an honest question!
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Raf
Dave,
I think Steve is trying to say that posting links to articles is all Jeff does.
I think Jeff is a great guy. If he wants to just post links, that's fine with me. I'd rather hear his own words too. But if he doesn't want to do that, it's up to him. It does leave him open to the criticism, though.
Jeff,
I share your struggle.
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dmiller
Raf -- ahhhh. That makes sense. Thank you!
:)-->
why do I always see the negative side of things??
-->
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socks
socks...
off???
sounds like indecent exposure to me.
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A la prochaine
Socks,
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WordWolf
twi: "The Word takes the place of the absent Christ."
Therefore, we'll lead you until you meet him.
WordWolf: Bible says if any man sins, we have an advocate
(defense attorney) with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.
(That's shooting from the hip. I'm running around and will
find some clear verses when I can.)
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JustThinking
Blessing my socks off isn't what I want before I've had my coffee. :-)
I would echo Raf and others in saying my perception is that Jeff comes across as a huckster for CES by just posting links to CES propoganda.
It would be great, Jeff, to hear from YOU now. Otherwise I get flashbacks to those endless sales pitches from Corp folks to attend yet another event that will "bless my socks off." Actually, that phrase really annoys me as you don't know what I will or will not enjoy.
BTW, I was taught on many occasions in TWI that JC was my advocate and made intercession for me with the Father. Maybe you missed those teachings?
JT
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Steve Lortz
dmiller - Raf took my point, "I think Steve is trying to say that posting links is all Jeff does."
Raf often posts links to Living Epistles, but it seems he always does it at the end of a pertinent, thoughtful post. He doesn't start a WHOLE THREAD solely for the purpose of posting a link to Living Epistles.
Jeff's threads are starting to have all the discursive value of pop-up banner ads. And why is this particular thread in "About The Way" instead of "Doctrinal"? If we put threads in this forum because "Hey! The Way never taught THIS!", then we're going to wind up with a heck of a lot of threads that are only tangential to the purpose of THIS forum.
Love,
Steve
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Don'tFenceMeIn
I have thought for sometime that this board has lately become an advertisement board for CES.
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Belle
Ditto Ditto Ditto what's already been said.
And I will add that if you don't feed the monster his posts will sink to the bottom of the page and slide off into the netherworld of page 2 and beyond.
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Mike
Not only is the title of this this thread a deja vu on the title of the Way magazine article, it's deja vu all over again (thanks Yogi) with the criticisms leveled at Jeff. Where have I heard them before?
-->
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oldiesman
So if twi taught all these goodies in 1978, how can anyone possibly surmise that twi really meant (with all the venom of an evil snake) that Christ is absent from our lives?
CES gets one demerit for engaging in sneaky false finger-pointing against twi-1.
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Steve Lortz
dmiller - You wrote, "Perhaps you see CES, and Jeff's posts as 'elitist force feeding', but with all due respect, ignoring the post is just a click away, and you can chose to NOT be 'force-fed'."
You miss the point, dmiller. I wrote, "When you just post a link to an article at CES, it gives a number of bad impressions... that reek to ex-TWI folk of elitist force feeding."
I don't know how much elitist force feeding YOU were required to endure, dmiller, while involved with the Way, but I, and I am sure many others also, had to sit passively, unquestioningly, through enough seemingly endless dronings to last several lifetimes.
True, I don't have to click on the link. But if I do, what do I get? Do I get lively discourse? Do I get an opportunity to ask questions? Do I get a chance to contribute things the Lord has shown me while I've worked the Word?
No. I get the same old droning that I got at Emporia and Gunnison. It DOES reek... "reek" I wrote... of the old TWI elitist force feeding.
Did you click on Jeff's link, dmiller? Did you scroll down to the place where it says, "Sorry, Comments not available for this article."
What does that suggest to you? Does it possibly "reek" of ANYTHING?
I don't know what it means. I cruised around the CES website trying to figure out what it means when it says, "Sorry, Comments not available for this article", without success.
Perhaps Jeff will wander back by and enlighten us.
Love,
Steve
P.S. - Maybe if "ignoring the post is just a click away, and you can chose to NOT be 'force-fed'" is a good policy, then Paw ought to start selling pop-up banner ad space at GreaseSpot. After all, ignoring a pop-up "is just a click away" too.
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
Hey folks!
I am hoping that some folks that are still in TWI will read this post. Maybe some of you that are still at HQ might want to pass this on to the research department.
Hey, how come TWI never taught me about what my Lord (not VPW or Craig M.) is doing for me today?
So, I thought you might like to read some of that information for yourself. I found it very eye-opening....
Sad to say, too many of us have never been taught what Jesus Christ is doing today, and every day since he became the “Lord” and the “Head” of the Church, which is made up of the members of his Body.
We all know that he died for us, was raised from the dead, ascended to heaven and is now “seated” at God's right hand.
But does that mean he is “just chillin’”?
No way.
He is even busier than he was when he lived on the earth....
Here a link to an article that I trust will bless your socks off!!!
cough couhor cough se cough sh cough it
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dmiller
You are right. Mea Culpa! I didn't think of it that way. Perhaps Jeff was posting the link to the article to get folks to look at it, and think about it, and perhaps not. Either way -- you are right. I apologize.
:)-->
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Goey
A quick review of Jeff's "Recent Posts" will show that the vast majority (if not all) of his posts are shameless plugs for CES and it's teachings.
There was one post where he seemed to speak in an offical capacity in CES's behalf in regards to CES's use of someone else's logo.
But, I could find no posts of Jeff's that suggest in any way that he is in interested in any kind of meaningful dialog with other posters here at GS.
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