So that's what John Lynn meant when he said VPW would be "proud" of their work. CES ripped off AO Ministries' logo. Hey, true plagiarism, like the old master grifter's, is a tough act to follow, but they're getting a really good start.
Well done, CES! Almost got away with it. You have to crawl before you can walk, boys.
I would possibly be more aggressive than I am presently being if the first edition of CES' "Alpha & Omega" newsletter did not have me wondering whether some kid is at the bottom of this.
Might the basic A&O template had originally come from a commercial Christian clipart and artwork cd (the type designed for ministers and pastors to use for putting together their newsletters and websites)?
I must say that I find this whole post to be outrageous and really dreadging for dirt in an unholy way.
Trying to discredit a newsletter that the youth of CES or any other organization put together just because you have nothing more profitable to do is repugnant to say the least.
Was there nothing of the content contraversial so the logo becomes the focus of attention?Excuse me while i grab my vomit bag.
Oh come on. Someone somewhere made a mistake and got busted. Cynic caught it. Sounds like (and I could be wrong) someone who didn't know better screwed up and didn't realize that no, it's not okay.
So CES will find some clip art and use it instead.
Anyone actually going to lose sleep over it? I mean, it's not like the kid who blundered had a doctorate but didn't know the basics of crediting sources.
CES had no right to be using the Alpha & Omega Ministries logo, and I wasn't in the mood to sit by and say nothing about it after I recognized AOM's logo on CES' website.
(Even the color variations on the logo were the same.)
As for the content of CES' youth newsletter, Dartanian3m, I find Ryan Maher's piece "Trinitarian or Unitarian, Does it really matter?" more contemptible than the logo affair. Maher's piece is a superficial tirade against the doctrine of the Trinity -- dressed up as an explanation of why more Jews and Muslims have not converted to Christ. It comes from someone involving himself in gratuitous speculation rather than in biblically informed commentary concerning those who reject the gospel and the person of Christ.
When I started this thread, I had focused on AOM's logo at CES' site and Ryan Maher's piece in the newsletter to which the logo was linked. I was pretty much loaded to pursue, flush out, lay out and spend time humiliating some unrestrained and conscienceless Socinian bear who had entered a Trinitarian camp and began carrying off from the identity of an apologetic ministry.
After I took note of the photos that appear on the first edition of CES' youth newsletter, however, the perpetrator morphed from a vicious predator to a ....ing-on-everything cub. I do not desire to continue this in such a way as to cause distress to that type of critter. I think, however, that CES should publicly acknowledge Alpha and Omega Minstries' rights to, and disclaim CES' now apparently discontinued use of, the subject logo.
*****
Concerning Danny's question about the origin of the AOM logo, here's part of a log of an IRC conversation:
(Cynic) DrOakley: Is that logo something you guys came up with, rather than some historical piece of art?
If TWI had done this, do you think the reaction, speculation and/or just plain bludgeoning would have been different? Compared to how some benign topics have been treated here, I would say that Cynic was rather polite. He simply showed the two side-by-side.
Cynic said, "I was pretty much loaded to pursue, flush out, lay out and spend time humiliating some unrestrained and conscienceless Socinian bear who had entered a Trinitarian camp and began carrying off from the identity of an apologetic ministry."
I guess you showed them. Surely you were born in the wrong era, Cynic. You would have been handy to have around during The Inquisition...or perhaps smoking out witches would have been more to your taste.
Oh, and I've been meaning to ask you: Is that a hickey on your neck?
Compared to how some benign topics have been treated here, I would say that Cynic was rather polite. He simply showed the two side-by-side.
Yeah, JustThinking: Just a showing of the facts.
Although there very possibly would have ultimately been some taunting and sarcastic statements to top off my part in this affair, I began with essentially an informative approach.
(I'm really not very brutal. Ive used the rack on fewer than a dozen heretical opponents.)
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satori001
So that's what John Lynn meant when he said VPW would be "proud" of their work. CES ripped off AO Ministries' logo. Hey, true plagiarism, like the old master grifter's, is a tough act to follow, but they're getting a really good start.
Well done, CES! Almost got away with it. You have to crawl before you can walk, boys.
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JustThinking
Wow! They better hire PJ to defend them.
On a more positive note, it IS the sincerest form of flattery. ;-)
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dmiller
Ask them.
:)-->
I looked at the links. Same logo. Was it copyrighted, or not? Either way, it is obvious it is the same.
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dmiller
and perhaps -- just maybe -- CES asked for permission to use the logo.
:D-->
or is that too unreasonable to even think of?
-->
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Cynic
It seems James White was unaware of CES' apparent use of the logo until I informed him about it in his #prosapologian IRC chat room.
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Cynic
By the way, here is what appears to be the first edition of CES' "Alpha & Omega" newsletter:
http://christianeducational.org/monthlylet..._2002_10-12.pdf
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Cynic
I would possibly be more aggressive than I am presently being if the first edition of CES' "Alpha & Omega" newsletter did not have me wondering whether some kid is at the bottom of this.
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TheInvisibleDan
Might the basic A&O template had originally come from a commercial Christian clipart and artwork cd (the type designed for ministers and pastors to use for putting together their newsletters and websites)?
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satori001
C'mon Dan, don't be a wet blanket. You're probably right, though.
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fortunateone
TWI ripped off so many different things.
Getting a meeting or practice ten minutes early was called "Vince Lombardi time" before it was call "corps time."
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Oakspear
Hmm...
.
.
.
.
.
...the more that I look at it...
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
...the more it looks like...
.
.
.
.
.
.
...a bondage face!!!!
.
.
.
.
...ya gotta love the classics
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Cynic
It's gone.
http://www.christianeducational.org
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Dartanian3m
I must say that I find this whole post to be outrageous and really dreadging for dirt in an unholy way.
Trying to discredit a newsletter that the youth of CES or any other organization put together just because you have nothing more profitable to do is repugnant to say the least.
Was there nothing of the content contraversial so the logo becomes the focus of attention?Excuse me while i grab my vomit bag.
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dmiller
Hope you're happy now, Cynic.
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Raf
Oh come on. Someone somewhere made a mistake and got busted. Cynic caught it. Sounds like (and I could be wrong) someone who didn't know better screwed up and didn't realize that no, it's not okay.
So CES will find some clip art and use it instead.
Anyone actually going to lose sleep over it? I mean, it's not like the kid who blundered had a doctorate but didn't know the basics of crediting sources.
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Cynic
CES had no right to be using the Alpha & Omega Ministries logo, and I wasn't in the mood to sit by and say nothing about it after I recognized AOM's logo on CES' website.
(Even the color variations on the logo were the same.)
As for the content of CES' youth newsletter, Dartanian3m, I find Ryan Maher's piece "Trinitarian or Unitarian, Does it really matter?" more contemptible than the logo affair. Maher's piece is a superficial tirade against the doctrine of the Trinity -- dressed up as an explanation of why more Jews and Muslims have not converted to Christ. It comes from someone involving himself in gratuitous speculation rather than in biblically informed commentary concerning those who reject the gospel and the person of Christ.
When I started this thread, I had focused on AOM's logo at CES' site and Ryan Maher's piece in the newsletter to which the logo was linked. I was pretty much loaded to pursue, flush out, lay out and spend time humiliating some unrestrained and conscienceless Socinian bear who had entered a Trinitarian camp and began carrying off from the identity of an apologetic ministry.
After I took note of the photos that appear on the first edition of CES' youth newsletter, however, the perpetrator morphed from a vicious predator to a ....ing-on-everything cub. I do not desire to continue this in such a way as to cause distress to that type of critter. I think, however, that CES should publicly acknowledge Alpha and Omega Minstries' rights to, and disclaim CES' now apparently discontinued use of, the subject logo.
*****
Concerning Danny's question about the origin of the AOM logo, here's part of a log of an IRC conversation:
(Cynic) DrOakley: Is that logo something you guys came up with, rather than some historical piece of art?
(DrOakley) Original artwork.
(Cynic)
:)-->
(DrOakley) Don Falconer made it.
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WordWolf
Well,
I hope the teens THERE learn something the teens in twi never
learn.....
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TheEvan
BTW, Christian orthodoxy doesn't seem to be getting in the way of large numbers of Muslims in Uganda turning to Christ.
We don't see it in the west because of the shameful decline of the Christian church in the west. Not because of some doctinal seed.
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JustThinking
For Cynic's critics:
If TWI had done this, do you think the reaction, speculation and/or just plain bludgeoning would have been different? Compared to how some benign topics have been treated here, I would say that Cynic was rather polite. He simply showed the two side-by-side.
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Linda Z
Cynic said, "I was pretty much loaded to pursue, flush out, lay out and spend time humiliating some unrestrained and conscienceless Socinian bear who had entered a Trinitarian camp and began carrying off from the identity of an apologetic ministry."
I guess you showed them. Surely you were born in the wrong era, Cynic. You would have been handy to have around during The Inquisition...or perhaps smoking out witches would have been more to your taste.
Oh, and I've been meaning to ask you: Is that a hickey on your neck?
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Cynic
Enters the ever-never-too-continent Garthella Z. -- reinventing and spewing hyperbole at her opponent.
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Cynic
And smugly barking some classless quip.
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Grizzy
Bears are NOT affiliated with CES!!!!!!
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Cynic
Yeah, JustThinking: Just a showing of the facts.
Although there very possibly would have ultimately been some taunting and sarcastic statements to top off my part in this affair, I began with essentially an informative approach.
(I'm really not very brutal. Ive used the rack on fewer than a dozen heretical opponents.)
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