2) VeePee only took one semester(at Princeton?)(freshman level) of classical greek, not any biblical greek.
serious? crud, I took 15 credits of Biblical Greek at a Lutheran college, due in large part to all the Greek they were tossing around, cripes, oh well, at least it counted toward my degree.
quote:serious? crud, I took 15 credits of Biblical Greek at a Lutheran college, due in large part to all the Greek they were tossing around, cripes, oh well, at least it counted toward my degree.
so, you have taken far more greek than VeePee. Is it now Dr. Sky4it?
quote:Wierwille had claimed he attended several colleges where he received his Biblical and Greek education. I showed her letters, which I still have from the places that he claimed he went to school. Two separate letters stated that he was never there. Moody Bible Institute is one for instance.
so, you have taken far more greek than VeePee. Is it now Dr. Sky4it?
No way man, but I see your humor. I consider the greek mostly worthless as far as practical things go. Most folks can simply pick up a Vines Dictionary and do just fine. I dont see any benefit beyond that.
Tell what to do with my life? Can I move to your house, watch your kids and generally work for nothing? Just tell me vague spiritual sounding sound bites and I'll be happy, oh greek master. ;-)
Invited to study at Oxford...yeah right...let me tell you a stowwwry about Veepee getting an invitation.
When Ronald Reagan was elected president, Veepee claimed that he was "invited" to attend the president's inaugeral ball. In fact, he claimed that he was "hand delivered" an invitation from one of Reagans aides. I recall this incident quite well...heard it from Veepee's lips myself. Well, he wasn't quite honest...Actually, what happened was, when Reagan was elected, they sent out several hundred invites to the ball...the main ball, that is. They also sent out several thousand invites for the smaller balls that were to take place in various parts of the country...for folks who didn't make the "main ball list"...the one that Reagan, himself was to attend. The smaller balls that took place were attended by numerous contributors, prominent business people, various clergy, and other supporters. They sent out thousands of these invites...THAT's the invite that Veepee got...and on top of it all, he had to ask for it!...I was told later, by someone who knows, that ANY "clergy" who asks for one of these invites to one of the smaller balls...will receive one...Veepee attended and nobody there knew him...he was treated like any other spitsucker that weasled himself an invite. He ate his roasted chicken and slipped out the back door...somewhat humiliated. Wierwille had made it sound as if the president was asking for him, like an old testament king calling on the prophet...LOL!
So, what's my point? The point is that Veepee was an incredibly insecure man who constantly needed to pretend to be some "great one". He lied on numerous occasions to further this myth. He allowed other people to lie in order to maintain this myth...snow on the gas pumps? When considering his "doctor" status, it would be totally inconsistant of wierwille NOT to lie about his credentials! It would be a major shock is Veepee were to be found telling the truth about his miserable self!!! Pikes Peak bible college? What a joke...the guy was a grifter and a con man...wierwille was a doctor, just like he invented the hook shot...
Invited to study at Oxford...yeah right...let me tell you a stowwwry about Veepee getting an invitation.
When Ronald Reagan was elected president, Veepee claimed that he was "invited" to attend the president's inaugeral ball. In fact, he claimed that he was "hand delivered" an invitation from one of Reagans aides. I recall this incident quite well...heard it from Veepee's lips myself.
Hmmm hmmm, I remember that one. But what I heard from VP on a stage very very far away was that he declined the personal invitation because he did not want to blemish Reagon's Presidency because TWI was considered a cult. I thinks it was a ROA or maybe a Word In Your Business.
Well, that's what I heard from VP's lips. Whoa, quite a difference between your experience and mine.
Here's another one. I asked why DR? smoked. I was told that it did not matter and via tests his lung tissue showed no evidence of smoking because of his believing. Then I asked what about the glasses? I don't even remember what the answer was to that one.
A) "Doctor", with a degree that might have no more meaning than an honorary degree?
B) "THE TEACHER", which is a title he spread around for
himself, starting in the pfal class and proceeding from there?
I would think DR? and "THE TEACHER" would be one and the same. Both he claimed to be true since he did claim those titles. Both titles are extraordinary the claims. I would suppose that "THE TEACHER" exhibited a more valid claim than Dr? since he did teach as proven in PFAL, etc.
But what he taught and where he gained the info can be documented in part as plagiarism. His credentials as a Dr?, it seems, can not be actually documented for some reason.
WW, "THE TEACHER", kewl the obvious that was not mentioned until you brought it to thought.
Tell what to do with my life? Can I move to your house, watch your kids and generally work for nothing? Just tell me vague spiritual sounding sound bites and I'll be happy, oh greek master. ;-)
Ah yes my child, and I will appoint a prophet & priest for my king dumb, but then you could not think no more and that would be sad :(-->, but oh child, I your guru shall think about your offer, and if you pay your tithe, I may let you oh child on board :D-->
Too bad his *love for God`s word* overshadowed his responsibility to *love* his neighbors....Jesus mighta mentioned something about this being of major importance...seems to me, second only to Love God with all your heart soul mind and strength.
I don`t believe that you can treat people the way he did and have much love or respect for them...
quote: Here's another one. I asked why DR? smoked. I was told that it did not matter and via tests his lung tissue showed no evidence of smoking because of his believing.
Right. Must've been the believing that got him that oxygen tank to provide for the "no evidence of smoking" in his lung tissues. -->
There may no evidence of smoking and drinking in his lungs- but his Death Certificate says there was evidence in his liver and eye (looks like that must be the real reason it was removed- not chronic headaches from the damage they recived when his spirit filled film crew screwed up the lighting at the beginning of the PFAL film class. As I was told)
After reading all this, I guess I feel sorry for the guy. I don't know what his doctoral thesis was. He should have had a thesis for his Masters as well. Anyone know what that was?
I applied for, and was accepted at, Boston University and Ohio State University. I could not get up the tuition for BU (in those days, federal and state student loans were not that abundant and my family was poor, but not poor enough to qualify for special assistance on tuition). I chose to go to Ohio State University and graduated from there. My Masters came from Antioch University, and there we were required to complete, prior to graduation, a "Capstone", which is the business equivalent of a thesis. They were on average about 100 pages long. The research was quite grueling especially when were were assigned the topics of research. It took months, an entire quarter, and weren't assigned the topic until the last quarter. The idea was to start and finish it within the three months of the course.
Most of us did. The class began with 29 students and 19 finished and graduated. It was a personal feeling of accomplishment to complete the Masters degree after that. Graduation sure felt good to me after the Capstone.
That is somewhat like a doctoral thesis is supposed to be like, except harder than even that. I believe you can choose your own subject for your thesis at doctoral level, but the subject matter is more intense, the research even more extensive, and it is judged by a panel of other professors at doctoral level and if they approve your thesis, then after all the study, research, and writing, are granted a doctoral degree. This is the standard for an accredited degree. The other is that the university or college granting the degree be part of the six major accrediting agencies in the United States or at least of the two or three major religious accrediting agencies which are in the United States but located down south.
A close friend (ex corps)just was awarded his doctoral degree from a highly respected university. His doctoral disertation took tens of thousands of hours to research and write and was about 300 pages.
While writing his thesis he had an advisor who ruthlessly rode his *** and made him make thousands of changes. The final thesis was read and evaluated by a board of examiners from several different universities and he was only awarded his doctorate after this board approved the thesis.
The process took over 3 years and my friend had been widely published in academic journals before and during this work.
Did VPW have his work examined by a board of his peers from other institutions other than the Pike's Peak "Seminary" (a bedroom in someone's apartment)? I doubt it....
If Wierwille "loved" the Word of God soooo much, why did he make such a terrible hash of it? What Wierwille loved was HIS OWN INTERPRETATION of the Word. That's what PFAL was. We weren't moving "the Word of God" over the world. We were moving PFAL over the world, and those are two vastly different critters.
Love,
Steve
P.S. - IMO, "THE Teacher" was a more offensive lie than Wierwille's "Dr."
quote:So, what's my point? The point is that Veepee was an incredibly insecure man who constantly needed to pretend to be some "great one". He lied on numerous occasions to further this myth.
Funny thing is, he never had to lie about anything, to prove that his good works had an impact on folks. For a moment, throw out the instances he lied and look at it ... look at his life without those, and still, he contributed significantly and meaningfully.
VPW didn't promote a scam. Many many folks got born again, and came to a more accurate knowledge of the truth, through VPW's efforts. That's not a definition of a scam.
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sky4it
proberge:
your comment:
2) VeePee only took one semester(at Princeton?)(freshman level) of classical greek, not any biblical greek.
serious? crud, I took 15 credits of Biblical Greek at a Lutheran college, due in large part to all the Greek they were tossing around, cripes, oh well, at least it counted toward my degree.
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pjroberge
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pjroberge
Exerpt from Interview with Officer Mark Roggeman http://www.excultworld.com/interviews/Mark%20Roggeman.htm
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sky4it
proberge:
your comment:
so, you have taken far more greek than VeePee. Is it now Dr. Sky4it?
No way man, but I see your humor. I consider the greek mostly worthless as far as practical things go. Most folks can simply pick up a Vines Dictionary and do just fine. I dont see any benefit beyond that.
take care.
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excathedra
so what's the answer or did i miss it ?
one semester ? or one semester of one subject ?
you know what i mean
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JustThinking
sky4it,
Tell what to do with my life? Can I move to your house, watch your kids and generally work for nothing? Just tell me vague spiritual sounding sound bites and I'll be happy, oh greek master. ;-)
(Oops, cult mentality slipping through there)
JT
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
PJ,
I read your interview with Officer Mark Roggeman.
Kewl.
For some reason, Dr's credentials still can not be documented.
I have asked this question since 1978. 26 years later, his doctorate still eludes me.
Is there any solid without a doubt VP's education as a PHD? I mean real LEGAL proof?
Seems to me also WTH HAS OFFERED something but no real proof.
DR really seems a master of illusion!
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GrouchoMarxJr
Invited to study at Oxford...yeah right...let me tell you a stowwwry about Veepee getting an invitation.
When Ronald Reagan was elected president, Veepee claimed that he was "invited" to attend the president's inaugeral ball. In fact, he claimed that he was "hand delivered" an invitation from one of Reagans aides. I recall this incident quite well...heard it from Veepee's lips myself. Well, he wasn't quite honest...Actually, what happened was, when Reagan was elected, they sent out several hundred invites to the ball...the main ball, that is. They also sent out several thousand invites for the smaller balls that were to take place in various parts of the country...for folks who didn't make the "main ball list"...the one that Reagan, himself was to attend. The smaller balls that took place were attended by numerous contributors, prominent business people, various clergy, and other supporters. They sent out thousands of these invites...THAT's the invite that Veepee got...and on top of it all, he had to ask for it!...I was told later, by someone who knows, that ANY "clergy" who asks for one of these invites to one of the smaller balls...will receive one...Veepee attended and nobody there knew him...he was treated like any other spitsucker that weasled himself an invite. He ate his roasted chicken and slipped out the back door...somewhat humiliated. Wierwille had made it sound as if the president was asking for him, like an old testament king calling on the prophet...LOL!
So, what's my point? The point is that Veepee was an incredibly insecure man who constantly needed to pretend to be some "great one". He lied on numerous occasions to further this myth. He allowed other people to lie in order to maintain this myth...snow on the gas pumps? When considering his "doctor" status, it would be totally inconsistant of wierwille NOT to lie about his credentials! It would be a major shock is Veepee were to be found telling the truth about his miserable self!!! Pikes Peak bible college? What a joke...the guy was a grifter and a con man...wierwille was a doctor, just like he invented the hook shot...
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WordWolf
Very interesting story, there, Uncle Hairy.
Thanks for sharing it.
===================
Moody has no records of vpw at ALL?
That's funny-he's said on at least one occassion-on TAPE-
that he'd taken every class they offered...I believe he
specified they were every correspondence course they
offered. Amazing how he could take so many and they would
STILL not have records of him.
Maybe-as someone suggested-he simply failed them all, or
left them ALL incomplete.
Either way, it would not technically be a lie, but it would
be deceptively phrased, and it would NOT reflect well that he
was unwilling or unable to finish classes he started.
=========
Which was his MORE bogus title?
A) "Doctor", with a degree that might have no more meaning than an honorary degree?
B) "THE TEACHER", which is a title he spread around for
himself, starting in the pfal class and proceeding from there?
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tomtuttle
You can lable a can of pickles "tomatos", but it doesn't change the pickle on the inside.
Why, he was no more a doctor than a barrel 'o monkeys ...
Much learning doth make him mad.
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JustThinking
In this case, his possible lack of learning makes me mad. ;-)
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Oakspear
Wait! He must have been a doctor...he had that robe...with all the stripes in the right place and in the right color!
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
UncleHairy
Hmmm hmmm, I remember that one. But what I heard from VP on a stage very very far away was that he declined the personal invitation because he did not want to blemish Reagon's Presidency because TWI was considered a cult. I thinks it was a ROA or maybe a Word In Your Business.
Well, that's what I heard from VP's lips. Whoa, quite a difference between your experience and mine.
Here's another one. I asked why DR? smoked. I was told that it did not matter and via tests his lung tissue showed no evidence of smoking because of his believing. Then I asked what about the glasses? I don't even remember what the answer was to that one.
Rok On
Song
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
WordWolf
I would think DR? and "THE TEACHER" would be one and the same. Both he claimed to be true since he did claim those titles. Both titles are extraordinary the claims. I would suppose that "THE TEACHER" exhibited a more valid claim than Dr? since he did teach as proven in PFAL, etc.
But what he taught and where he gained the info can be documented in part as plagiarism. His credentials as a Dr?, it seems, can not be actually documented for some reason.
WW, "THE TEACHER", kewl the obvious that was not mentioned until you brought it to thought.
Thanks,
Song
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chwester
Dont know why some people feel they will get more respect with a title in their name, or initials after it.
I was never impressed with his title, but was very impressed by much of what he taught in PFAL. Also by his love of God's Word.
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sky4it
Just thinking:
your comment:
Tell what to do with my life? Can I move to your house, watch your kids and generally work for nothing? Just tell me vague spiritual sounding sound bites and I'll be happy, oh greek master. ;-)
Ah yes my child, and I will appoint a prophet & priest for my king dumb, but then you could not think no more and that would be sad
:(-->, but oh child, I your guru shall think about your offer, and if you pay your tithe, I may let you oh child on board 
:D-->
NOT
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rascal
Too bad his *love for God`s word* overshadowed his responsibility to *love* his neighbors....Jesus mighta mentioned something about this being of major importance...seems to me, second only to Love God with all your heart soul mind and strength.
I don`t believe that you can treat people the way he did and have much love or respect for them...
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dmiller
Right. Must've been the believing that got him that oxygen tank to provide for the "no evidence of smoking" in his lung tissues.
-->
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ckeer
There may no evidence of smoking and drinking in his lungs- but his Death Certificate says there was evidence in his liver and eye (looks like that must be the real reason it was removed- not chronic headaches from the damage they recived when his spirit filled film crew screwed up the lighting at the beginning of the PFAL film class. As I was told)
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WordWolf
Well,
since he died of cancer,
and was exposing himself to carcinogenic substances every day (tobacco),
and his lung tissue was showing no sign of damage,
the carcinogens must have been building up elsewhere in his body,
like his eye or something. Explains why the cancer hit his eye....
BTW,
I don't object to him calling himself "a teacher".
Even when I was IN, I objected to him calling himself
"THE Teacher."
See the difference?
In the first case, he is one teacher.
In the second case, he is the ONLY teacher.
You might want to skim some of the threads in the archives where we
had some fun with these things. GS 101 has a thread with a bunch of
terms on it for people-you might want to skim that as well.
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Eagle
After reading all this, I guess I feel sorry for the guy. I don't know what his doctoral thesis was. He should have had a thesis for his Masters as well. Anyone know what that was?
I applied for, and was accepted at, Boston University and Ohio State University. I could not get up the tuition for BU (in those days, federal and state student loans were not that abundant and my family was poor, but not poor enough to qualify for special assistance on tuition). I chose to go to Ohio State University and graduated from there. My Masters came from Antioch University, and there we were required to complete, prior to graduation, a "Capstone", which is the business equivalent of a thesis. They were on average about 100 pages long. The research was quite grueling especially when were were assigned the topics of research. It took months, an entire quarter, and weren't assigned the topic until the last quarter. The idea was to start and finish it within the three months of the course.
Most of us did. The class began with 29 students and 19 finished and graduated. It was a personal feeling of accomplishment to complete the Masters degree after that. Graduation sure felt good to me after the Capstone.
That is somewhat like a doctoral thesis is supposed to be like, except harder than even that. I believe you can choose your own subject for your thesis at doctoral level, but the subject matter is more intense, the research even more extensive, and it is judged by a panel of other professors at doctoral level and if they approve your thesis, then after all the study, research, and writing, are granted a doctoral degree. This is the standard for an accredited degree. The other is that the university or college granting the degree be part of the six major accrediting agencies in the United States or at least of the two or three major religious accrediting agencies which are in the United States but located down south.
If they are not accredited, there is a reason.
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pjroberge
A close friend (ex corps)just was awarded his doctoral degree from a highly respected university. His doctoral disertation took tens of thousands of hours to research and write and was about 300 pages.
While writing his thesis he had an advisor who ruthlessly rode his *** and made him make thousands of changes. The final thesis was read and evaluated by a board of examiners from several different universities and he was only awarded his doctorate after this board approved the thesis.
The process took over 3 years and my friend had been widely published in academic journals before and during this work.
Did VPW have his work examined by a board of his peers from other institutions other than the Pike's Peak "Seminary" (a bedroom in someone's apartment)? I doubt it....
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Steve Lortz
If Wierwille "loved" the Word of God soooo much, why did he make such a terrible hash of it? What Wierwille loved was HIS OWN INTERPRETATION of the Word. That's what PFAL was. We weren't moving "the Word of God" over the world. We were moving PFAL over the world, and those are two vastly different critters.
Love,
Steve
P.S. - IMO, "THE Teacher" was a more offensive lie than Wierwille's "Dr."
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oldiesman
Funny thing is, he never had to lie about anything, to prove that his good works had an impact on folks. For a moment, throw out the instances he lied and look at it ... look at his life without those, and still, he contributed significantly and meaningfully.
VPW didn't promote a scam. Many many folks got born again, and came to a more accurate knowledge of the truth, through VPW's efforts. That's not a definition of a scam.
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