John Lynn responds

[socks]

Heeeeeey. TSRTS....

I just realized your comment may have been meant as a...

putdown.

Is that what you're doing? Putting me down? Making fun of me? Disparaging me? Me? Moi? socks? This guy?

Please clarify this important question for me so that I can sleep tonight.

I'll prepare my responses accordingly.

[sky4it]

The songremains:

your comment:

Is The Mystery True???

You mean the mystery of Christ in You the hope of glory? Of course its true.

The bible also says great is the mystery of godliness, so I simply think it takes time and experience to find the treasures.

Paw: if your there i am having problems with your website logging in and out, no problems on other sites tho, something aint right. It takes forever to move from screen to screen.

[TheSongRemainsTheSame]

No socks ain't put'n ya down man...

You just sounded like WC to me all the correspondANCE I received from WC I sponsored

lmao... forgive me

[TheSongRemainsTheSame]

forgive me S4...

I suppose my dig the mystry should have been in the doctrinal forum

..we been called out since before the foundations of the world...

[WordWolf]

quote:

---

Originally posted by oldiesman:

JAL said:

quote:

---

HOWEVER, in regard to what we were taught versus what most other Christians believe, the fact remains that we did hear the Word as it had not been taught since the first century. How could that be? Simple--most everyone else has been believing too many Roman Catholic fables.

---

How true this is, for me at least!

I think JAL is doing a good job of making a case that CES is different from TWI, in practice at least. A lot of the doctrines are obviously the same, true, which won't change, unless the folks advocating change come across with some extra heavy beef that makes more sense than already researched doctrines most of us believe is the truth.

Those who don't believe these doctrines are always free to go elsewhere and enjoy other doctrines if they feel the other doctrines are more correct. I don't sense any condemnation or arrogance from JAL in that light, even though he still believes he's right. I don't have a problem with him believing he's right and saying so. He's got that right, just like anyone else.

:)-->

---

Actually, I think a fairly strong case is being made that, although there

are many differences between twi and ces/stfi,

many of the CRITICAL distinctions remain fundamentally the same-

either unchanged, or with marginal changes that can easily erase over

time and become what they supposedly abhor.

I don't have a problem with JAL believing he's right-we ALL believe we're

right.

My issue is that he believes the gap between ces/stfi and all other

Christians is a broad, yawning chasm with him and truth on one side,

and most Christians and superstition on the other side. You don't

perceive that as arrogance.

I do agree that I have not seen CONDEMNATION from JAL.

I think his opinion is that, if people want to leave and embrace some

doctrine he considers horse-and-buggy thinking, they're free to do so,

but he'll just disapprove to himself. I don't think that, in and of

itself, is a bad position.

[WordWolf]

JAL in regular text...

[WordWolf, as usual, in boldface .]

quote:

---

P.S. to my 8/17 reply:

You said that in TWI there was "arrogance in our knowledge of the Bible versus the rest of Christianity's." I agree, and I think in large part it was because the man at the top, VPW, had a big chip on his shoulder toward the denomination that fired him. That, plus his own ego, contributed to our adopting an "us vs. them" mentality, and the persecution we got from other Christians served to exacerbate that.

[ I agree wholeheartedly, and will add that I consider an "us vs them" mentality between Christians to be a bad, bad mistake, just as Paul did when he confronted the "I am of Paul/I am of Apollos/I am of Cephas" people. "Was Christ divided?"]

The way we have put it through the years is that, generally, we did not relate to the truth we had in the most godly way. Too often we used it as a bludgeon against those who disagreed with us. But that doesn't mean it was not still truth.

[ Actually the attitude that we were the ONLY bearers of truth, and that ALL other Christians didn't have Truth, was the reason for the bludgeon we used on our brethren for whom Christ died.]

In Scripture, there are two sides to the "truth coin," and in TWI we basically saw only one. The first is doctrinal/propositional: "Your word is truth" (John 17:17). We had that one down pretty well--we knew the Word. The other is practical/relational: "I am the truth" John 14:6). We too often missed that one--we didn't live it. The point of knowing the truth is to BE like Jesus in the way we relate to other people. Rather "Gnostically," we reveled in the knowledge we had, but often failed to apply it by BEING true, that is, living it in love.

[ THAT aspect of truth, from what I've seen, is a LOT easier to find among more conventional Christians than among ex-twi'ers, in groups or not. So, we were-and ARE-less-skilled in some areas of knowledge. ]

HOWEVER, in regard to what we were taught versus what most other Christians believe, the fact remains that we did hear the Word as it had not been taught since the first century.

[ That is NOT a fact. That is a SLOGAN, a MOTTO, a CATCHPHRASE, and uses of them are counter-productive to THINKING. I openly dispute this claim, and put forth that it is patently untrue. ]

How could that be? Simple--most everyone else has been believing too many Roman Catholic fables.

[ We all know how much more dangerous the Roman Catholic fables are than the twi fables, don't we? Let me know if you want me to start getting into THOSE. ]

Now we dare not backlash into a mindset like: "Well, I don't know if what I was taught was right or not." Or: "How could everyone else be wrong about the Trinity?" etc. Rather than throw out everything we were taught, we have diligently studied it all, deleted some significant errors, and gone far beyond where we were in TWI. Actually, it was VPW himself who often told me that he hoped "you young guys" (sigh) will go much farther than I have.

[ vpw may have said that, but he was always actively discouraging revamps and upgrades that invalidated what he'd already taught. It was another case of "do as I say, not as I do." Also, it seems that claims can be made that significant errors have been retained and are still being taught, and furthermore, some of the new doctrine also introduces errors. The people with ces/stfi experience seem to say that discussion of this has been suppressed and discouraged as well. This sounds familiar. ]

All of the prevailing errors believed by the vast majority of Christians are easily traceable by studying both the Word and Church history. I don't think it is at all "arrogant" to say that what we teach is far more biblical than what most Christians are taught.

[Has the average seasoned Christian been invited to put forth where he thinks his doctrine is superior to ces/stfi? I bet if he WAS, you'd see he's not the ignorant nerf-herder you seem to think he is. Plus, you just MIGHT find some things worth improving in your OWN group. ]

It is simply factual. Think about it: either the Bible does or does not teach the following:

Jesus is God, a part of the "Trinity."

[ Believing that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, the Messiah, King of Kings and Lord of Lords, and part of the Trinity, I take from what you're saying, cripples the average Christian significantly. Is that what you MEANT to convey? ]

[Further, a lot of Christians give lip service to the Trinity, and act as if Jesus is the Son of God and not God Himself. They retain the buzzwords because that's what they're taught. They're not the only ones, either. ]

There are no "dispensations" ("administrations") in Scripture, and the Church is a continuation of God's program for Israel.

[ Most Christians I encounter do NOT teach that. Are you actually communicating with Christians who ARE? I suspect not, but if you ARE, I do not consider them statistically representative of the general population of Christians in the US any more than YOU are. ]

A Christian can lose his salvation if he behaves in such a way that...well, it's not exactly clear, but....

[ I suppose some Christians are teaching that, but, again, not the ones I interact with, and they're from a variety of organizations and locations across the planet, mostly North America.]

The Book of Revelation is regarding Christians, who will go through part or all of the Tribulation.

[ Most Christians I know do not attempt to teach on Revelation, since it does not seem germane to here and now. A quick look at the sales of the "Left Behind" series of books should tell you that the position most Christians call "pre-tribulation" is hardly a position held by a few people in a corner. It's one of the two MAIN positions concerning Revelation. (The other IS the post-tribulation viewpoint.) I recommend interacting with a wider circle of Christians. ]

If a Christian dies, he is actually still alive in some incorporeal form.

[ I've seen significant progress in this one. However, I'd like to ask you how critical in the Christian's walk this issue is? Is it LESS important than humility in Christ versus swaggering around like God's gift to the Christians? In honest, though, I'm hoping to see more progress in the future on this one. ]

Christians will live forever in "heaven," while unbelievers will suffer fiery torment forever in "hell."

[ Amazingly, twi taught that first one-Christians will stay in heaven-and it was only after I studied the subject to "make it my own" that I was unable to document it from Scripture, but discovered I could document a different answer. ]

[ As to the second, I'm an annihilationist-yes, there are enough Christians who believe this that there's BEEN a name for them-but I can also make a case for the opposing point of view-from Scripture. Different verses can lead equally-earnest searchers to different conclusions. Since twi/ces/stfi de-emphasize the Gospels in comparison to most Christians, some of these verses pose less of a threat to them. ]

The "Holy Spirit" is the third person of the "Trinity."

Speaking in tongues, etc. are "gifts" of the spirit, and only some Christians can do them.

[ Doctrine and practice on this one vary widely. Ever sit in on a Pentecostal church? A charismatic church? Heck-sit thru BG Leonard's course, which taught otherwise before vpw xeroxed his work? You'll see a wide variety of doctrines and practices, some better than others. Personally, I'd like to see a lot more improvement on this one as well.....So, I teach other Christians otherwise, rather than say "look how error-ridden they are." ]

God is in control of everything that happens, and nothing happens unless He wills or allows it.

[ Depends entirely on how you phrase that one. I can argue both for and against that particular phrasing from Scripture, and the semantics count a lot. ]

God has absolute foreknowledge, that is, "in the beginning" He saw the future as a present reality, including the socks you are currently wearing.

[ I believe a stronger case for an Omniscient, Inscrutable, Transcendant God is made by the Bible, than the case for a God that exists wholly in the moment with us. BTW, plenty of Christians have discussed this one over the past 20-30 years also, almost none of them twi/ces/stfi, statistically speaking. ]

We do not believe that any of the above statements are biblical, and we have books and/or tapes that set forth from Scripture what we do believe it says regarding these absolutely critical issues. What is at stake? The quality of your daily life.

[ According to what you wrote, "the quality of my daily life" is at stake with regards to the Trinity and what I believe happens when I die. I think that's overstating the case. I'm sure non-ces/stfi'ers can make a case for their own doctrines being critical as well.]

Why? Because John 8:32 says that knowing the truth will make you free, and the converse must be that believing error puts you in some degree of bondage (or bandage).The more important the particular truth, the greater the freedom--or the bondage.

[ Polarizing the doctrines is of dubious value, unless you're preaching to the choir. ]

If our work does not convince you of our biblical position, God bless you. All we ask is that you thoroughly consider it. Honestly, most of those who have done so have been very blessed.

---

[ I consider the testimonials the results of more "preaching to the choir". I do note, however, that you are NOT attempting to strongarm me into your positions. According to you, I'm free to come to my own decisions and join the ranks of the idiots who barely comprehend the printed words in the Bible if it so pleases me. Of course, that's not a direct quote, but look at how you've characterized ALL Christians NOT in your group. ]

[WordWolf]

Oh,

since I forgot to get back to it,

about this "The Word like it hasn't been known since the first

century" stuff....

First of all,

that rests ENTIRELY on the (unverifiable) claims by vpw that God

Almighty told him this and confirmed it with either a vision or a

miracle of snow. vpw, on at least one occasion, was PROVEN to have

lied about a miraculous snowstorm-people followed his claim and

documented the disparity between his claim and reality.

In fact, every claim of vpw's about some miracle have always been

second-hand from his own mouth, like the Jubbulpore incident-

which was NEVER repeated by him with similarly-crippled devotees

to twi.

Second,

"The Word as it has not been known since the first century"

sounds so pious and holy,

but it is a MEANINGLESS PHRASE.

It should be no secret that twi devotees-and most ex-twi survivors-

know diddly-squat about the history of the church from the end

of Acts until vpw saw it snow. (Similarly, they're usually in the

dark about Christians outside their group even to this day.)

A little research should prove what your common-sense should have

told you..... Before printing presses, when Christians were being

killed and hunted down, the first century church did not HAVE a

New Testament in common. The books of the New Testament existed in

limited copies in a few churches in a few places. It wasn't until the

beginning of the second century that enough copies were made to

begin to collect the New Testament together. (Mind you-those who

lacked copies, say, of Matthew still believed it was Scripture-

they just didn't have their own copies.) This is, of course,

different from the various add-on, so-called "gospels" and

"lost books" that sprang up 100 years after THAT-which nobody took

seriously, ever. (Except a few gullibles, but aren't there always

a few of those?) Actually, FF Bruce's "the Scrolls and the

Parchments", which occasionally was carried in the way bookstore,

would explain this to you much better than I could.

So, in short,

"The Word", as it was known in the First Century,

was largely the Old Testament.

Third,

the first-century church, as easily seen from Scripture,

bore little resemblance to twi.

No centralized authority, no dictated teaching curriculums,

no standardization, no MANDATORY TITHE, no inner circle with

special privileges, no involvements in local politics, no

creature comforts or room for a luxurious auditorium,

etc.

The one thing we have in common is running manifestations in

meetings. Compared to everything else, that's hardly enough to

say they were similar. They're more different than they are alike.

[oldiesman]

Wordwolf:

quote:

---

Actually the attitude that we were the ONLY bearers of truth, and that ALL other Christians didn't have Truth, was the reason for the bludgeon we used on our brethren for whom Christ died.

---

Wierwille and twi never said we were the ONLY bearers of truth. We knew that what we learned was a compilation of teachings from all sources and we thought that was the best truth there was available. But the only group that had the truth? Hardly. Learning from "men of God scattered across the continent" means that others had the truth, as well. We readily acknowledged that on individual teachings, other groups were "right on" as well. How about the Mormons, on tithing? How about the Jehovah's Witnesses, on JCING?

And many times, during my witnessing stints, when I'd come across someone who believed exactly what I did on a certain topic, I'd rejoice that others were taught and believed the same thing.

:)-->

[sadie]

OM, they might not have come right out and said they were the only ones with the truth, however, they did say if I wanted to hear the real truth then TWI fellowship was where I needed to attend.

I was told that TWI was above the earth and above those that were a part of it..I was also told BS about churches who only wanted my money and whatever else they wanted (or tried) to make me believe. Just because some of us didn't hear it, do it, or see it, there are places the rest of us did.

I was told about the "truth" issue prior to attending TWI and they were still quacking those same words when I left in Nov. 2002...

[oldiesman]

Sadie, saying you're a group that proclaims the truth, and saying you're the ONLY group that proclaims the truth, are two different claims.

:)-->

[sadie]

Oldies, no one knows the real truth so why even argue the difference.

In my experience with TWI, they certainly want you to believe that they are the "ONLY" ones and by their actions toward me and others because we decided to leave, well, need I say more except I am going to die along with all the others who are not part of the household.

TWI will screw anybody another a++hole and make them soon believe that they were born with 2 because you don't question them.

[TheSongRemainsTheSame]

oldiesman...

are you still involved TWI?

[TheSongRemainsTheSame]

om attention drawn to you...

for some reason me you seem to hold the truth of gods wonderful matchless word...

Well om

later

[Tom Strange]

OM said:

quote:

---

Wierwille and twi never said we were the ONLY bearers of truth. We knew that what we learned was a compilation of teachings from all sources and we thought that was the best truth there was available. But the only group that had the truth? Hardly.

---

Veepee said that what we had hadn't been known since the first century... didn't he? ...even if it was that he would teach it, show it to us, like it hadn't been since the first century... at the very least that alludes to we have it and no one else does

And as for knowing that "it was a compilation"... well, I didn't know that until after I was gone...

[shazdancer]

Nice post, WW.

You hit my point exactly, that we have a lot to learn from "mainstream" Christians in the areas that most matter.

Regards,

Shaz

[sky4it]

gang:

I have probably attended some 9 or 10 different denominations over the past 20 years. I would say that in most places ( with some exceptions) there also is an attitude of pride or superiority. Was it more extreme in TWI? Well, at least as extreme as perhaps in two other places that I visited. (I do think denominations have changed dramatically and become less critical of others in the last 10-12 years) Personally, I think this type of pride we have to guard against. Remember that the Apostle Paul was almost ashamed "to boast" or "to glory". I think this is because it is really not the nature of Christ to be self assertive and boastful. The proof in any ministry must be, IMO, in the power of God. Noticeably in the Apostle's life, the Lord used his weakness to manifest his strength.

I thought to add this, because I think anyone can take the "TWI experience" and move on and make good of it in the Lord. Neither does this mean I am giving a TWI sales pitch, for I have already asserted some of my differences with their views.

[maptl]

You can squabble about who was right and who was wrong all you want. A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion. I for one have worked along side of JAL for four years and have seen sides of him that will never be spoken of again. But I think that he is doing a fine job with his mind set and that is his and his alone responsiblity with God. The way I see it and (I do not belong to anyone but God's heart) is people "leaders" put their own perspective what God works in them and says it is what God works in all of us. God works with each individual believer where he is at in life. He did in OT he does it in our grace time. But I never hear any of even the "ministers" that have left TWI and are in some sort of structure say.... "Hey, you got the spirit of God in you, it is Christ in you, God is your suffency you work it out". "you have the spirit of God you go to the scriptures God will teach you with your understanding where you are at in your life and what you need to do in your life". I at this point have not heard it from any former Way clergy that is still in some sort of structure. I approching the 50th year of life on this earth, one would only hope that by this time I would have developed some savey to have a realationship with the Father that would allow me to not get locked into a "right way to pistis". That I could put on my big boy pants and come up to the plate and God and I could hit one out of the park so to speak.

Penticost changed everything!!! And even though we were taught that it is to whom it is written few still follow it. I have still not found one exclergy that will come up to the plate and say the epistles are the way to live the gospels are not addressed to us. The teachings want us to apply the gospels as if they were addressed to me. They want me to quote the old testement as if it was my way to live. Their hook is it is written. Well in TWI put it is written above God. It is a wonderful reference point and a great place to go and see what God thinks of a situation in the light of the adimistration to whom it was intended for and brought to light in that time. But God has given us a spirit to bring to light what we need to do in any given situation and to have the confidence to walk out on spirit of God working in us. I commended all these old clergy from the TWI who have left and are endevoring to bring to light the truth to God's people, I do think they limit themselves by sticking to a dogma of a structure where they make references to tapes and ideas of what God has worked in another individual within that persons understanding and then deem it that we should take it as THE WORD OF GOD. I love what I went through in the Way ministry. I am not ashamed that I was in it. I have been out of it since 1989 when I wouldn't take a corps assignment. I have worked on staff, gone WOW, been Corps, even got married in the corps weddings (how do you explain that one to people, LOL!) I have loved every minute of what I have gone through good and bad because it has given me the savey to be who I am today. I have been hurt, rejected, bad mouthed, but still I am so gloriously happy that I was a part of The Way, because I have met people who have been a wonderful part of my life since. They are my family as are all born again believers it is just when I meet some of any born again from Jehovah's, to old TWI's to Catholics, I find out how much of my heart I can give to them. If it is just a surface how you do,and will you pray about this for me, or I can open up my heart and we can enjoy the fruits of each others lives and our understand of how God works in us. But the wonderful thing of this whole demise of TWI was I got to be the person I have always desired to be with God. I have the tools to go and understand the bible, to pray for others and know it works, to pray perfectly and know that God will cover where I fall short, and to teach my children to go to God when they need help and he will answer. What more can one ask for in this wonderful life we live. And the freedom now to disagree and not feel as if I am sinning against God because it is God working in you with your understanding in your life with a check point of the bible so you do not go off in some weird doctrine so that I can walk each day close to God's heart!

[shazdancer]

Ah but maptl, if the leaders actally trusted us to be able to walk with God by ourselves, they couldn't sell nearly as many tapes amd classes....

;)-->

Shaz

PS -- If you break your paragraphs up into smaller ones, they will be easier to follow on the computer screen -- thanks, appreciated your post.

[TheSongRemainsTheSame]

quote:

---

Wierwille and twi never said we were the ONLY bearers of truth. We knew that what we learned was a compilation of teachings from all sources and we thought that was the best truth there was available. But the only group that had the truth? Hardly. Learning from "men of God scattered across the continent" means that others had the truth, as well. We readily acknowledged that on individual teachings, other groups were "right on" as well. How about the Mormons, on tithing? How about the Jehovah's Witnesses, on JCING?

---

OM,

i beg to differ with ya. I do not know how long you were with TWI and quite frankly wonder why you are not sill involved.

VP's protege LCM after the "Fog Years"

stated that TWI was the only HouseHold of God and only The true body of Christ."..

I have about 300 tapes... one of them states VP's protege my aforementioned...

Song

ps. as far as the "we", I was also involved...

[TheSongRemainsTheSame]

Map...

quote:

---

You can squabble about who was right and who was wrong all you want. A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion. I for one have worked along side of JAL for four years and have seen sides of him that will never be spoken of again. But I think that he is doing a fine job with his mind set and that is his and his alone responsiblity with God.

---

Vey well said your love for JAL.

[shazdancer]

Hi, everybody,

John wrote back yesterday, checking to make sure that I posted both of his emails. He also said he would not discuss Momentus via email, there was too much to say, but he would be happy to speak to me by phone (I declined the offer). He DID say that a lot of the criticism he had read about it (he didn't say where) was "bunk." So there ya go. He also asked if I still live in NY -- I don't.

Here's my reply to John:

Dear John,

Yes, thanks, I did receive both emails, and they are posted on Greasespot. I've got to say that I hope you also will not "throw out the baby with the bathwater," and continue to appreciate what people from all walks of life can teach us. I think that many times in The Way, we reveled in making the Bible "fit like a hand in a glove," but forgot the weightier matters of walking in love, understanding, and mercy with one another. The Word was written for people, not people made for the Word.

Truly helping one another cannot be done in a sound bite, in my opinion, but comes from taking the time to listen and care. I am glad that in my instance, you took some time to listen and consider. The regulars on Waydale (and now Greasespot) took the time to post about what was going on behind the scenes at The Way International. Being able to ask questions and read postings helped heal the hurt and confusion I had over that time in my life. I hope that you and others who have gone on with the things of God will appreciate that we are not just a bunch of bitter naysayers, but a motley crew that takes a few moments out of our regular lives to help those that are still hurting and still looking to understand what happened to them in The Way.

'Course, if you don't understand it, we'll keep on doing it anyway... ;)-->

I also have a personal concern that those of you in a Christian ministry be aware that sometimes, people need immediate help that is beyond quoting Scripture at them. "Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish, and you feed him for a lifetime" is all well and good, but I would add, "Teach a starving man to fish, and he might die before he learns how." I hope that your organization is not against referring people in need to experts that can help, be they doctors, lawyers, mental health professionals, welfare agents, detox programs, or what have you. It is not a shame to get help when help is needed. I think The Way was so caught up in "believing God" that they sometimes did not steer people to the help they needed in a crisis.

No, I haven't lived in NY in a long time, although I have visited back from time to time. I currently live in Maine. Excuse me if I don't take you up on your offer to call, but sorry that you do not have the time to discuss Momentus.

Take care,

{Shaz}

[oldiesman]

quote:

---

gang:

I have probably attended some 9 or 10 different denominations over the past 20 years. I would say that in most places ( with some exceptions) there also is an attitude of pride or superiority. ... I thought to add this, because I think anyone can take the "TWI experience" and move on and make good of it in the Lord.

---

sky4it,

I agree with your viewpoints here. Thanks for sharing. ...

:)-->

[oldiesman]

quote:

---

OM,

i beg to differ with ya. I do not know how long you were with TWI and quite frankly wonder why you are not sill involved.

VP's protege LCM after the "Fog Years"

stated that TWI was the only HouseHold of God and only The true body of Christ."..

---

Song, we learned in PFAL that those who are born again are members of the body of Christ. So what Craig said, if he said it, was wrong. I got out in 1990, so I can't speak for what happened after that. I hear a few strange things every now and then .... Craig saying that TWI was the "only true body of Christ" is one of them.

:)-->

Edited August 23, 2004 by oldiesman

[TheSongRemainsTheSame]

quote:

---

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

OM,

i beg to differ with ya. I do not know how long you were with TWI and quite frankly wonder why you are not sill involved.

VP's protege LCM after the "Fog Years"

stated that TWI was the only HouseHold of God and only The true body of Christ."..

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Song, we learned in PFAL that those who are born again are members of the body of Christ. So what Craig said, if he said it, was wrong. I got out in 1990, so I can't speak for what happened after that. I hear a few strange things every now and then .... Craig saying that TWI was the "only true body of Christ" is one of them.

---

That is exactly why i hang on to those rags, tapes, books!

For twi was the only body of christ would mean that LCM was the Prez the BOC. and anyone who really believes that sends me back to '75!!!

[shazdancer]

Dear sky4it and oldiesman,

My experience differs with yours. I have visited several churches since leaving TWI, and I worked at one church (for their dance choir and performing arts center) while I was still in. I have also worked alongside many people who have no problem speaking about their involvement in mainstream churches. Although I got an elitest vibe from a few, mostly I found people to be very laid back and tolerant about their faith.

People go to a church that they feel comfortable with. They probably agree with most of the tenets of that church, or they wouldn't go (except for some who feel an obligation to attend the church of their family's tradition). But there is a difference between going where you feel comfortable and hoping that you are believing rightly, versus "knowing" that you are right and feeling a need to demonstrate that to others.

Regards,

Shaz