You are the one who had to make repair for reporting a heinous crime ???? This predator gets caught molesting children....and YOU are the one punished??? How twisted is that?
You know, it sure strikes me, how vp showed his outstanding spiritual discernment abilities when he apointed THIS bozo to be in charge of peoples lives.....can there be any DOUBT concerning the source of vps information?
"Here on GS the appearant majority are people who felt abused and mis-treated.Certainly there were attempts to abuse and mis-treat me, I did not let that stop me. Did I put up with it? maybe sometimes so long as it did not stop me from ministering to others."
I do not quite understand your reply to mj412. Are you saying that there are a majority percentage of people who "felt" abused and mistreated and there are a percentage that were "absolutely without a doubt" abused and mistreated? I relate the "felt" part to the remaining portion your reply in regards to "attempts" to abuse and mistreat you.
" "independent thinking" skills offered by a group? kind of an anti-thesis. The military does not encourage it either does that mean it is not allowed? No. What happens within my brain is my business. Can a group, or corporation, or ministry stop what happens within my brain? No."
Am I to understand in this reply to mj412 that there is no such thing as "mind control" over a person regardless what happens within ones brain and no matter what type of group that person maybe involved?
"Song, I'm so sorry for what you went through. I think, though, that being face to face with the lying and deception of the leaders that it must have been much easier to recover from the bondage of TWI. Thankfully, too, you were able to get your family out in one piece.
Did you see it for what it was at the time, or did it take a while for you to realize that we were all being scr*wed? "
As far as being "much easier to recover" because of that confrontation ~~~ I can only say it would have been MUCH easier if I left when I was first confronted in loving detail by loving folks outside TWI in '78 , '86 , '89-91 that TWI was a "dangerous cult". I dismissed those loving confrontations as personal attacks from the adversary and counted it all joy, worthy to be persecuted for His Name.
I left in '95 and to this day I continue to see more and more of the "screwing" :D--> , or uhm rather uhm, unraveling of that control TWI had on my soul and many many others.
I forgive myself and them, but will never forget the wounds, now scars, that I was fortunate to walk away with as compared to others whose mental scars run ever so deeper than mine.
“I do not quite understand your reply to mj412. Are you saying that there are a majority percentage of people who "felt" abused and mistreated and there are a percentage that were "absolutely without a doubt" abused and mistreated? I relate the "felt" part to the remaining portion your reply in regards to "attempts" to abuse and mistreat you.”
It does appear to me that most here on GS did feel abused or mistreated, yes.
Not everyone feels that way, but yes certainly it does seem to me that most do seem to be reporting that they felt abused or mistreated.
“Am I to understand in this reply to mj412 that there is no such thing as "mind control" over a person regardless what happens within ones brain and no matter what type of group that person maybe involved?”
There is certainly ‘brain-washing’ and ‘behavior modification’ techniques.
I would still question the idea that membership within any ‘group’ absolutely absolves all ‘independent thinking skills’.
I think that there will always be some people who can still flourish even within a culture where abuses exist, or perhaps it is stressing a person that enables them to become stronger. Gee maybe I did learn something from 20+ yrs in the Navy.
“growth takes change and new ideas and the ability to cope without group think and co-dependency. personal growth takes independent thinking, twi offered none of these avenues of thought and in fact murdered the ability to do such in many”
I do agree that growth is helped by change.
A person’s ability to cope may be helped by stepping outside of ‘group think’, though I have seen people who insisted that they needed the ‘group’ to survive.
A little co-dependency might be okay, though I would tend to dis-like people who are too dependant.
“personal growth takes independent thinking”
I agree.
“twi offered none of these avenues of thought and in fact murdered the ability to do such”
I would not usually think of someone who wants to be independent as being a ‘joiner’ and a ‘member’ and a ‘follower together with’; those who I have known who were really independent disdained joining anything.
It appears to me that you may have been blessed for bieng in the military for 20 years, maybe you missed some of the bad things and God preserved you for only the good , i think thats great.
MJ, is a person, IMO , who really loves the Lord. I think he was very frustrated thats all. Everyones experience varies somewhat, you know?
"But i would of left years before. Not doubt in my mind they were not what they said they were and were abusive."
Okay.
"Wow if i could only be like you and beleive so big."
I dont know about beleiving 'big', we fought battles, we tried to protect our fellowships and our household. Overall I was 'thrown out' 3 times, my entire history with TWI has been posted many times previously. Due to my career we moved around a lot. We never stopped worshiping our Creator, reading the Bible, running PFAL classes, and most of the time when we 'settled' in a new location, we opened shop running a new twig. Not being Corpse, TWI never really maintained any 'list' of who was booted. It is my understanding that the only lists TWI published were of those were got 'booted'. So you get tired to fighting idiot Corpse, you bless them, knock the dust off your feet, and go to another location. Just because local 'leadership' wants to be idiots does not stop us from worshipping Our Heavenly Father and sharing what we have studied.
Our eldest son has gone to CES teen camps, he really liked them. I did go on their 'holy-lands tour' in 2000, it was a lot of fun. Recently they had a 'do' in Mass, and I went to it. We get their mailings. We are NOT one of their officaly recognized fellowships, as I am not comfortable with signing a contract and obligating myself to a set of rules. I would not have done that when we were functioning within TWI guidelines either.
The only issue that I see with CES is that they seem to lack coordination. Daniel really wanted to go on their WOW program, he contacted everyone about it, but they were very foggy about the specifics. The projected date for commencment was post-poned. We waited six months, and nothing was happening with it, so we contacted the list of everyone who seemed to be in charge of the program, but again nothing was coming together. Postponed again. So we waited some more a few more months, and Daniel enlisted in the Army. Then one day, we got a mailing that the program had started and was running, and a group of young people had been selected and were doing it. Just like that, poof.
To me if a devorced man wants to begin dating again, to court a future wife, he should not be forced to leave the ministry to do such; but it is understandable that many of these people and a little gun-shy when it comes to the issue of leadership dating.
Other than those issues, I see nothing 'wrong' with CES. They seem great.
Daniel really enjoyed their "New Life in Christ" course, as well as a few other things that we have done from CES. Of course Daniel is a grad of PFAL as well.
"It does appear to me that most here on GS did feel abused or mistreated, yes.
Not everyone feels that way, but yes certainly it does seem to me that most do seem to be reporting that they felt abused or mistreated."
Absolutely!
And this is what I see from my street corner, :D--> , and this:
That there is a distinction between "feeling" , "attempted" , & "actually". Yes? No?
I felt at times I was prospering. I felt at times the abuse & mistreatment.
I attempted to prosper. There were those that attempted to abuse & mistreat me too!
I actually prospered. I was actually mentally abused & mistreated.
"I would still question the idea that membership within any ‘group’ absolutely absolves all ‘independent thinking skills’."
I am 100% with ya on that one. ;)--> I did leave on three occasions (and of course they were separate). I still spoke the word, listened to the tapes, way rag, spoke in tongues more than ye all, witness. And, and, and on each seperate return TWI was blessed with new resources. After that type of deal going on and some people began keeping , like in --- not returning the pfal & I&P videos.They had left TWI but was preserving the word ya know. And among other things such as the The Two Towers GOTHMOR & TWI split, it would become increasingly difficult to gain access to TwIgs if pointed out as questionable. And if one began their own non-sanctioned twig~~~ they were known as uhm sticks (similar to styx eh.) and with a venom. So most definetly the independent thinking was there, but some of the independent thinking became a forced issue of survival.
"I think that there will always be some people who can still flourish even within a culture where abuses exist, or perhaps it is stressing a person that enables them to become stronger. Gee maybe I did learn something from 20+ yrs in the Navy."
Certainly the group mind set of my employment in a 5 star 5 diamond resort hotel at WDWorld propertyas a Maitre D', creme d' creme, was distincly different the mind set of my 20 yearz with TWI. There was more independent thinking in the former than the latter. In the hotel we practiced behavior modification for sure. How to be groomed. What to wear. Ridged schedule. 900 - 1500 employees 24/7 catering to literally thousands of guest each week. But there was no brain washing , well at least not on the scale of TWI. That was my experience between those two particular group settings of sameness and vast differences. I think we are saying the same thing concerning "stronger & learning" as in the value of experience(s)
mj412
"maybe for life. growth takes change and new ideas and the ability to cope without group think and co-dependency. personal growth takes independent thinking, twi offered none of these avenues of thought and in fact murdered the ability to do such in many."
I also concur that growth is helped by change and takes independant thinking.
Imho, i think the statement "twi offered none of these avenues of thought..." is a wee bit extreeem; for there were those that promoted such personal growth via independent thinking and some with a pedantic flair and not isolated sporadic instances of either.
"... and in fact murdered the ability to do such in many”
Now that remaining portion, imho, is extreemly correct and we could also determine what degree of murder and other degress such as manslaughter and and uhm literally, but sadly, suicide.
Quiet a many cross roads with in crossroads traveled eh
quote:As far as being "much easier to recover" because of that confrontation ~~~ I can only say it would have been MUCH easier if I left when I was first confronted in loving detail by loving folks outside TWI in '78 , '86 , '89-91 that TWI was a "dangerous cult". I dismissed those loving confrontations as personal attacks from the adversary and counted it all joy, worthy to be persecuted for His Name.
Tis so true, Song. I, too, wish I had heeded warnings. The odd thing with me, though, is most of my family and friends could see the control going on and just knew I would buck the system and bolt back to normal. I didn't though and by the time they realized I was in too deep to be my normal rebellious self it was too late to even be able to warn me. My response would have been very similar to yours.
I was thinking that people who leave of their own volition and especially when it's due to injustice and lies and such that they already have a leg up on those who were unjustly M&A and confused about why it happened to them and those who just kind of faded away.
The people M&A have to get to the point where they can see that it wasn't their fault and that the evil and wrong was in TWI and not with the person being M&A. There's an extra helping of lost self-esteem dumped on those.
I in no way meant for it to sound as though any recovery from TWI is easy. It's all difficult. I just think those who were kicked out because they were failing to live up to the completely unrealistic expectations of TWI have en extra dose of "hard" to handle.
My ex has been abused verbally and mentally by some in TWI. He has had his self esteem so destroyed by those people it makes me cry, but he still looks up to them like they are gods. If he were to get kicked out it would break his heart and I think he would have a nervous breakdown. It truly breaks my heart, but I tried to help and see where it got me? alone
You and I saw the abuse for what it was and took action. I think that's the healthiest way to leave.
Thanks for your posts. I really enjoy reading you.
p.s. I'm more redneck than southern belle, but Momma hasn't given up on me yet. ;)-->
"quote,"As far as being "much easier to recover" because of that confrontation ~~~ I can only say it would have been MUCH easier if I left when I was first confronted in loving detail by loving folks outside TWI in '78 , '86 , '89-91 that TWI was a "dangerous cult". I dismissed those loving confrontations as personal attacks from the adversary and counted it all joy, worthy to be persecuted for His Name
Tis so true, Song. I, too, wish I had heeded warnings. The odd thing with me, though, is most of my family and friends could see the control going on and just knew I would buck the system and bolt back to normal. I didn't though and by the time they realized I was in too deep to be my normal rebellious self it was too late to even be able to warn me. My response would have been very similar to yours."
>>>Tis is so to be true, Belle. Tis so. The sameness of the experience to be repeated in other "twi households" across the nations would be, I think, considered epidemic among such a small group of folks. Did you take that rebel into TWI and use it to benefit the body of christ? I know I sure did. Afterall, I was being taught the truth as it had not been known since the first century church. How can the natural world compete with such a mind set the pedantic eltist ivory league complete with pipe and smoking jackets and the proper credentials and a fat purse & a neon sign buzzing in a field Welcome to The Way Cult Club. >>>
"I was thinking that people who leave of their own volition and especially when it's due to injustice and lies and such that they already have a leg up on those who were unjustly M&A and confused about why it happened to them and those who just kind of faded away."
>>> Absolutely. I faded away from TWI with a leg up and mental mutual gestulations and gymnastics the one finger gunslinger rok on & kiss my azz You got mud on your face You big disgrace Somebody better put you back in your place type of mind set. There was a mutual deafening wall of silence that developed between our households, Freaking FINALLY!!! ~~~
And then came " the somebody's" who exposed without a doubt "the others" and it was comitted to The Internet Cyber Space Wild Wild West Frontier~~~ or however you may visualise~~~ & voila, dialogue across the globe.~~~ you know...one can run, but try to hide. A larger number of people can take a peek at once and speak their say if they so wish. The mutual experiences certainly are not coincidence ~~~ I sware i was also abducted by aliens ....>>>
"The people M&A have to get to the point where they can see that it wasn't their fault and that the evil and wrong was in TWI and not with the person being M&A. There's an extra helping of lost self-esteem dumped on those."
>>>Tis is so to be true again. I know of some who were m&a and thankful for it!!! I was not M&A. Damn it!!! Couldn't even walk out with a freaking MA. Now that really ....es me. I would hope most left with their dignity in tact. Ohhh thaat's right! Their names were "only" billboarded across monthly "The Local Focal Gossip Rag" hot off the press man & the phones rang: 'Hello' Listen carefully.They are considered diamon & diamonium and dangerous. If approached, do not speak with them. The older ones can not bend their pinky finger.' I suppose they should have contacted the FBI to make room on the top wanted list ~~~ or maybe the Men In Black. And ya know Belle, Jeesh been quite a while since my last excorcism. >>>
"I in no way meant for it to sound as though any recovery from TWI is easy. It's all difficult. I just think those who were kicked out because they were failing to live up to the completely unrealistic expectations of TWI have en extra dose of "hard" to handle."
>>> I see how that could be implyed between our posts. I did not read it that way. Thank you for bringing that to attention. For sure the degrees of involvement, dosage of doctrine, definetly determines the mild to severe side effects that could occur. Ya know, a little indegestion to PTSD, depression etc~~~ that kind of mental stuff ~~~ right? I completely understand as well agree. I also see the obvious ramifications involved such as family and the like relations that's more than just black & white. I would be remiss not to balance with a healthy dose the opportunity to have freely met and truely fellowshiped with honorable folk of good reputation, the ones who partied, for whom I have fond memories those blessed evenings at the Klassy Kats Gentlemens Lounge. >>>
"My ex has been abused verbally and mentally by some in TWI. He has had his self esteem so destroyed by those people it makes me cry, but he still looks up to them like they are gods. If he were to get kicked out it would break his heart and I think he would have a nervous breakdown. It truly breaks my heart, but I tried to help and see where it got me? alone"
>>> I certainly empathise your house of thought, feelings, emotions, mental and physical awareness such situations and conditions an elegy the inner sanctum. Hearts do heal. And believe me, better yet, believe yourself, "You Are Not Alone" in this vast universe.
"You and I saw the abuse for what it was and took action. I think that's the healthiest way to leave."
>>>Yeah, dig it. I suppose that would be one of the better ways to leave compared to other "healthy" methods of exit.
"Thanks for your posts. I really enjoy reading you.
p.s. I'm more redneck than southern belle, but Momma hasn't given up on me yet."
>>>Miss Belle,Thank You for the compliment and your words. And may your Momma be blessed she knew you'd always come 'round at some point
Song -- I was outa town fer a week, sorry... I meant I am an ex-6 corps grad and my wife, also found at our home, was formerly a member of the 12th corps...sorry to be so dang cryptic...
Great little thread you have here, sparked a bit of thought, that is always good....
Moved recently to a new home. While unpacking yet another dusty box, I found my old companion bible, with the same corps evaluation letter someone before had mentioned. I also never responded, but was never fortunate enough to get a "God Bless, You're the Best" letter afterwards from the bulbus, pulsating, pompus, engorged forehead monster. But the corps assignment letter did give me a laugh.
Thanks to all who contributed to this thread o mine.
It has gone to the second page.
I am posting One last letter HAND written by a Way Corps Grad in 1984. She was the BC for Savannah, Ga.
*****
Dear Household of God,
God bless you in the name of Jesus Christ, who makes intercessions for you daily.
Have you recently thought about how important your place in the body of Christ is? God set you in the body as it pleased him. (I Cor. 12:18) In other words, He looked at your potential and figured out where you could be the greatest asset. It wasn't haphazzard or careless placement (like taking a handful of seeds and casting them to the wind). It was very select. He probably spent thousands of years thinking about where He'd place you after you believed. You fit perfectly in that place also. No one fits as snug as you. No one can occupy your place as well as you. You can not be duplicated. You could never be replaced.
So, when you are not functioning at your best, the entire body does not function as well. In the physical realm, we would say that we are sick. The physical body can make-up for that one part not working. So it is in the spiritual body. We learn to compensate for the members who are run down, sluggish, discouraged. Yet, it would have been easier if the body had never had to make allowance for the non-working
part(s).
We did not choose who would be in the body and we cannot make suggestions as to who should leave (besides it isn't available- God has never black balled anyone) , BUT we can certainly help one another to grow up into Christ thereby causing the entire body to move like Herschel Walker.
By guarding your position in the body of Christ - doing your very best to make your function a strong point within the entire body, you help to make the overall body healthier. When everyone does their part, the body can run more rapid.
I'd like to suggest that each of you get a prayer partner and spend time each day in prayer. There is an old saying which goes like this, "More things are wrought by prayer than this world ever dreamed of." Prayer can move mountains of unbelief out of your life. You may also want to keep a running tally of when your prayers got answered. That will help keep you excited as well as build your confidence in your heavenly Father.
We all need our eyes, our ears, our feet, our hands and we all need one another- it just wouldn't be the same without you!
Heres another if you would like~~~ dated early 90's
Dear Dan,
God Bless and Greetings to you in the wonderful name of our Living Lourde and Saviore Jesus Christ!
On Sunday October 20th at 5 pm you called my wife. You informed her this was on your heart to talk with her. That is very kind of you to think of us. I am sure your intent was one of pleasantry, you know , how's the weather type of thing- But the conversation turned into condemnation of our lives. Of course, you were being led by God to say such things since God only talks with those of the Household of The Way Ministry- The Body of Christ. If God only talks with those in the Household, what are you doing talking with us? Does this mean God is limited to talking with us through you? Since when did your blood become so pure?
A many a missive I wrote callin back formers to TWI and no response and rightly so!!!
I even have one response by phone call
"If you ever get in touch with my family again~~~~"
THREAT MY LIFE!!!
Go figure eh!!!
That's how dedicated I was to TWI!
And also dedicated enough to my own good prudence something was not right~~~
TWInty years of that and good prudAnce a realization there is more to life than trying to control people and even much more and much more than I know~~~
I just prefer to be compassionate and laugh and cry and been there done that and ~~~
quietly try to walk on the water at the oceans edge~~~ my wife is witness~~~
that's really fun to try~~~
And I will always try that feat~~~ if it ever happens ~~~ oh my my my
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rascal
Oh geeze Shellon, that is awfull.
You are the one who had to make repair for reporting a heinous crime ???? This predator gets caught molesting children....and YOU are the one punished??? How twisted is that?
You know, it sure strikes me, how vp showed his outstanding spiritual discernment abilities when he apointed THIS bozo to be in charge of peoples lives.....can there be any DOUBT concerning the source of vps information?
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outandabout
I got a letter ...about a year after I split. It was from Craig.
It told me it was time to go to my Corps Evaluation with the latest limb leader who was some one I'd never heard of.
I ignored the letter. Then I got another letter telling me that because I ingored the first letter I was dropped from the Corps.
Oh, tragedy! I'd already left. ha ha ha ha ha
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
Galen:
"Here on GS the appearant majority are people who felt abused and mis-treated.Certainly there were attempts to abuse and mis-treat me, I did not let that stop me. Did I put up with it? maybe sometimes so long as it did not stop me from ministering to others."
I do not quite understand your reply to mj412. Are you saying that there are a majority percentage of people who "felt" abused and mistreated and there are a percentage that were "absolutely without a doubt" abused and mistreated? I relate the "felt" part to the remaining portion your reply in regards to "attempts" to abuse and mistreat you.
" "independent thinking" skills offered by a group? kind of an anti-thesis. The military does not encourage it either does that mean it is not allowed? No. What happens within my brain is my business. Can a group, or corporation, or ministry stop what happens within my brain? No."
Am I to understand in this reply to mj412 that there is no such thing as "mind control" over a person regardless what happens within ones brain and no matter what type of group that person maybe involved?
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
Belle:
"Song, I'm so sorry for what you went through. I think, though, that being face to face with the lying and deception of the leaders that it must have been much easier to recover from the bondage of TWI. Thankfully, too, you were able to get your family out in one piece.
Did you see it for what it was at the time, or did it take a while for you to realize that we were all being scr*wed? "
As far as being "much easier to recover" because of that confrontation ~~~ I can only say it would have been MUCH easier if I left when I was first confronted in loving detail by loving folks outside TWI in '78 , '86 , '89-91 that TWI was a "dangerous cult". I dismissed those loving confrontations as personal attacks from the adversary and counted it all joy, worthy to be persecuted for His Name.
I left in '95 and to this day I continue to see more and more of the "screwing"
:D--> , or uhm rather uhm, unraveling of that control TWI had on my soul and many many others.
I forgive myself and them, but will never forget the wounds, now scars, that I was fortunate to walk away with as compared to others whose mental scars run ever so deeper than mine.
Rok On Belle
Song
ps: r u a "southern belle"?
:D--> 
;)--> 
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Galen
Same song repeating over and over-
“I do not quite understand your reply to mj412. Are you saying that there are a majority percentage of people who "felt" abused and mistreated and there are a percentage that were "absolutely without a doubt" abused and mistreated? I relate the "felt" part to the remaining portion your reply in regards to "attempts" to abuse and mistreat you.”
It does appear to me that most here on GS did feel abused or mistreated, yes.
Not everyone feels that way, but yes certainly it does seem to me that most do seem to be reporting that they felt abused or mistreated.
“Am I to understand in this reply to mj412 that there is no such thing as "mind control" over a person regardless what happens within ones brain and no matter what type of group that person maybe involved?”
There is certainly ‘brain-washing’ and ‘behavior modification’ techniques.
I would still question the idea that membership within any ‘group’ absolutely absolves all ‘independent thinking skills’.
I think that there will always be some people who can still flourish even within a culture where abuses exist, or perhaps it is stressing a person that enables them to become stronger. Gee maybe I did learn something from 20+ yrs in the Navy.
“growth takes change and new ideas and the ability to cope without group think and co-dependency. personal growth takes independent thinking, twi offered none of these avenues of thought and in fact murdered the ability to do such in many”
I do agree that growth is helped by change.
A person’s ability to cope may be helped by stepping outside of ‘group think’, though I have seen people who insisted that they needed the ‘group’ to survive.
A little co-dependency might be okay, though I would tend to dis-like people who are too dependant.
“personal growth takes independent thinking”
I agree.
“twi offered none of these avenues of thought and in fact murdered the ability to do such”
I would not usually think of someone who wants to be independent as being a ‘joiner’ and a ‘member’ and a ‘follower together with’; those who I have known who were really independent disdained joining anything.
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sky4it
Galen:
It appears to me that you may have been blessed for bieng in the military for 20 years, maybe you missed some of the bad things and God preserved you for only the good , i think thats great.
MJ, is a person, IMO , who really loves the Lord. I think he was very frustrated thats all. Everyones experience varies somewhat, you know?
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Danny
Galen
Maybe this should be on another tread
But i would of left years before. Not doubt in my mind they were not what they said they were and were abusive.
Wow if i could only be like you and beleive so big. Lynn has plent of room for you.
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Galen
Danny:
"But i would of left years before. Not doubt in my mind they were not what they said they were and were abusive."
Okay.
"Wow if i could only be like you and beleive so big."
I dont know about beleiving 'big', we fought battles, we tried to protect our fellowships and our household. Overall I was 'thrown out' 3 times, my entire history with TWI has been posted many times previously. Due to my career we moved around a lot. We never stopped worshiping our Creator, reading the Bible, running PFAL classes, and most of the time when we 'settled' in a new location, we opened shop running a new twig. Not being Corpse, TWI never really maintained any 'list' of who was booted. It is my understanding that the only lists TWI published were of those were got 'booted'. So you get tired to fighting idiot Corpse, you bless them, knock the dust off your feet, and go to another location. Just because local 'leadership' wants to be idiots does not stop us from worshipping Our Heavenly Father and sharing what we have studied.
Our eldest son has gone to CES teen camps, he really liked them. I did go on their 'holy-lands tour' in 2000, it was a lot of fun. Recently they had a 'do' in Mass, and I went to it. We get their mailings. We are NOT one of their officaly recognized fellowships, as I am not comfortable with signing a contract and obligating myself to a set of rules. I would not have done that when we were functioning within TWI guidelines either.
The only issue that I see with CES is that they seem to lack coordination. Daniel really wanted to go on their WOW program, he contacted everyone about it, but they were very foggy about the specifics. The projected date for commencment was post-poned. We waited six months, and nothing was happening with it, so we contacted the list of everyone who seemed to be in charge of the program, but again nothing was coming together. Postponed again. So we waited some more a few more months, and Daniel enlisted in the Army. Then one day, we got a mailing that the program had started and was running, and a group of young people had been selected and were doing it. Just like that, poof.
To me if a devorced man wants to begin dating again, to court a future wife, he should not be forced to leave the ministry to do such; but it is understandable that many of these people and a little gun-shy when it comes to the issue of leadership dating.
Other than those issues, I see nothing 'wrong' with CES. They seem great.
Daniel really enjoyed their "New Life in Christ" course, as well as a few other things that we have done from CES. Of course Daniel is a grad of PFAL as well.
"Lynn has plent of room for you."
I am not sure if he has room for us.
:-)
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
Galen:
"It does appear to me that most here on GS did feel abused or mistreated, yes.
Not everyone feels that way, but yes certainly it does seem to me that most do seem to be reporting that they felt abused or mistreated."
Absolutely!
And this is what I see from my street corner,
:D--> , and this:
That there is a distinction between "feeling" , "attempted" , & "actually". Yes? No?
I felt at times I was prospering. I felt at times the abuse & mistreatment.
I attempted to prosper. There were those that attempted to abuse & mistreat me too!
I actually prospered. I was actually mentally abused & mistreated.
"I would still question the idea that membership within any ‘group’ absolutely absolves all ‘independent thinking skills’."
I am 100% with ya on that one.
;)--> I did leave on three occasions (and of course they were separate). I still spoke the word, listened to the tapes, way rag, spoke in tongues more than ye all, witness. And, and, and on each seperate return TWI was blessed with new resources. After that type of deal going on and some people began keeping , like in --- not returning the pfal & I&P videos.They had left TWI but was preserving the word ya know. And among other things such as the The Two Towers GOTHMOR & TWI split, it would become increasingly difficult to gain access to TwIgs if pointed out as questionable. And if one began their own non-sanctioned twig~~~ they were known as uhm sticks (similar to styx eh.) and with a venom. So most definetly the independent thinking was there, but some of the independent thinking became a forced issue of survival.
"I think that there will always be some people who can still flourish even within a culture where abuses exist, or perhaps it is stressing a person that enables them to become stronger. Gee maybe I did learn something from 20+ yrs in the Navy."
Certainly the group mind set of my employment in a 5 star 5 diamond resort hotel at WDWorld propertyas a Maitre D', creme d' creme, was distincly different the mind set of my 20 yearz with TWI. There was more independent thinking in the former than the latter. In the hotel we practiced behavior modification for sure. How to be groomed. What to wear. Ridged schedule. 900 - 1500 employees 24/7 catering to literally thousands of guest each week. But there was no brain washing , well at least not on the scale of TWI. That was my experience between those two particular group settings of sameness and vast differences. I think we are saying the same thing concerning "stronger & learning" as in the value of experience(s)
mj412
"maybe for life. growth takes change and new ideas and the ability to cope without group think and co-dependency. personal growth takes independent thinking, twi offered none of these avenues of thought and in fact murdered the ability to do such in many."
I also concur that growth is helped by change and takes independant thinking.
Imho, i think the statement "twi offered none of these avenues of thought..." is a wee bit extreeem; for there were those that promoted such personal growth via independent thinking and some with a pedantic flair and not isolated sporadic instances of either.
"... and in fact murdered the ability to do such in many”
Now that remaining portion, imho, is extreemly correct and we could also determine what degree of murder and other degress such as manslaughter and and uhm literally, but sadly, suicide.
Quiet a many cross roads with in crossroads traveled eh
Rok On
Song
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Belle
Tis so true, Song. I, too, wish I had heeded warnings. The odd thing with me, though, is most of my family and friends could see the control going on and just knew I would buck the system and bolt back to normal. I didn't though and by the time they realized I was in too deep to be my normal rebellious self it was too late to even be able to warn me. My response would have been very similar to yours.
I was thinking that people who leave of their own volition and especially when it's due to injustice and lies and such that they already have a leg up on those who were unjustly M&A and confused about why it happened to them and those who just kind of faded away.
The people M&A have to get to the point where they can see that it wasn't their fault and that the evil and wrong was in TWI and not with the person being M&A. There's an extra helping of lost self-esteem dumped on those.
I in no way meant for it to sound as though any recovery from TWI is easy. It's all difficult. I just think those who were kicked out because they were failing to live up to the completely unrealistic expectations of TWI have en extra dose of "hard" to handle.
My ex has been abused verbally and mentally by some in TWI. He has had his self esteem so destroyed by those people it makes me cry, but he still looks up to them like they are gods. If he were to get kicked out it would break his heart and I think he would have a nervous breakdown. It truly breaks my heart, but I tried to help and see where it got me? alone
You and I saw the abuse for what it was and took action. I think that's the healthiest way to leave.
Thanks for your posts. I really enjoy reading you.
p.s. I'm more redneck than southern belle, but Momma hasn't given up on me yet.
;)-->
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
Belle
"quote,"As far as being "much easier to recover" because of that confrontation ~~~ I can only say it would have been MUCH easier if I left when I was first confronted in loving detail by loving folks outside TWI in '78 , '86 , '89-91 that TWI was a "dangerous cult". I dismissed those loving confrontations as personal attacks from the adversary and counted it all joy, worthy to be persecuted for His Name
Tis so true, Song. I, too, wish I had heeded warnings. The odd thing with me, though, is most of my family and friends could see the control going on and just knew I would buck the system and bolt back to normal. I didn't though and by the time they realized I was in too deep to be my normal rebellious self it was too late to even be able to warn me. My response would have been very similar to yours."
>>>Tis is so to be true, Belle. Tis so. The sameness of the experience to be repeated in other "twi households" across the nations would be, I think, considered epidemic among such a small group of folks. Did you take that rebel into TWI and use it to benefit the body of christ? I know I sure did. Afterall, I was being taught the truth as it had not been known since the first century church. How can the natural world compete with such a mind set the pedantic eltist ivory league complete with pipe and smoking jackets and the proper credentials and a fat purse & a neon sign buzzing in a field Welcome to The Way Cult Club. >>>
"I was thinking that people who leave of their own volition and especially when it's due to injustice and lies and such that they already have a leg up on those who were unjustly M&A and confused about why it happened to them and those who just kind of faded away."
>>> Absolutely. I faded away from TWI with a leg up and mental mutual gestulations and gymnastics the one finger gunslinger rok on & kiss my azz You got mud on your face You big disgrace Somebody better put you back in your place type of mind set. There was a mutual deafening wall of silence that developed between our households, Freaking FINALLY!!! ~~~
And then came " the somebody's" who exposed without a doubt "the others" and it was comitted to The Internet Cyber Space Wild Wild West Frontier~~~ or however you may visualise~~~ & voila, dialogue across the globe.~~~ you know...one can run, but try to hide. A larger number of people can take a peek at once and speak their say if they so wish. The mutual experiences certainly are not coincidence ~~~ I sware i was also abducted by aliens ....>>>
"The people M&A have to get to the point where they can see that it wasn't their fault and that the evil and wrong was in TWI and not with the person being M&A. There's an extra helping of lost self-esteem dumped on those."
>>>Tis is so to be true again. I know of some who were m&a and thankful for it!!! I was not M&A. Damn it!!! Couldn't even walk out with a freaking MA. Now that really ....es me. I would hope most left with their dignity in tact. Ohhh thaat's right! Their names were "only" billboarded across monthly "The Local Focal Gossip Rag" hot off the press man & the phones rang: 'Hello' Listen carefully.They are considered diamon & diamonium and dangerous. If approached, do not speak with them. The older ones can not bend their pinky finger.' I suppose they should have contacted the FBI to make room on the top wanted list ~~~ or maybe the Men In Black. And ya know Belle, Jeesh been quite a while since my last excorcism. >>>
"I in no way meant for it to sound as though any recovery from TWI is easy. It's all difficult. I just think those who were kicked out because they were failing to live up to the completely unrealistic expectations of TWI have en extra dose of "hard" to handle."
>>> I see how that could be implyed between our posts. I did not read it that way. Thank you for bringing that to attention. For sure the degrees of involvement, dosage of doctrine, definetly determines the mild to severe side effects that could occur. Ya know, a little indegestion to PTSD, depression etc~~~ that kind of mental stuff ~~~ right? I completely understand as well agree. I also see the obvious ramifications involved such as family and the like relations that's more than just black & white. I would be remiss not to balance with a healthy dose the opportunity to have freely met and truely fellowshiped with honorable folk of good reputation, the ones who partied, for whom I have fond memories those blessed evenings at the Klassy Kats Gentlemens Lounge. >>>
"My ex has been abused verbally and mentally by some in TWI. He has had his self esteem so destroyed by those people it makes me cry, but he still looks up to them like they are gods. If he were to get kicked out it would break his heart and I think he would have a nervous breakdown. It truly breaks my heart, but I tried to help and see where it got me? alone"
>>> I certainly empathise your house of thought, feelings, emotions, mental and physical awareness such situations and conditions an elegy the inner sanctum. Hearts do heal. And believe me, better yet, believe yourself, "You Are Not Alone" in this vast universe.
"You and I saw the abuse for what it was and took action. I think that's the healthiest way to leave."
>>>Yeah, dig it. I suppose that would be one of the better ways to leave compared to other "healthy" methods of exit.
"Thanks for your posts. I really enjoy reading you.
p.s. I'm more redneck than southern belle, but Momma hasn't given up on me yet."
>>>Miss Belle,Thank You for the compliment and your words. And may your Momma be blessed she knew you'd always come 'round at some point
oh Red Rebel Belle.>>>
Rok On
Song
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alfakat
Song -- I was outa town fer a week, sorry... I meant I am an ex-6 corps grad and my wife, also found at our home, was formerly a member of the 12th corps...sorry to be so dang cryptic...
Great little thread you have here, sparked a bit of thought, that is always good....
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tomtuttle
Moved recently to a new home. While unpacking yet another dusty box, I found my old companion bible, with the same corps evaluation letter someone before had mentioned. I also never responded, but was never fortunate enough to get a "God Bless, You're the Best" letter afterwards from the bulbus, pulsating, pompus, engorged forehead monster. But the corps assignment letter did give me a laugh.
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
Thanks to all who contributed to this thread o mine.
It has gone to the second page.
I am posting One last letter HAND written by a Way Corps Grad in 1984. She was the BC for Savannah, Ga.
*****
Dear Household of God,
God bless you in the name of Jesus Christ, who makes intercessions for you daily.
Have you recently thought about how important your place in the body of Christ is? God set you in the body as it pleased him. (I Cor. 12:18) In other words, He looked at your potential and figured out where you could be the greatest asset. It wasn't haphazzard or careless placement (like taking a handful of seeds and casting them to the wind). It was very select. He probably spent thousands of years thinking about where He'd place you after you believed. You fit perfectly in that place also. No one fits as snug as you. No one can occupy your place as well as you. You can not be duplicated. You could never be replaced.
So, when you are not functioning at your best, the entire body does not function as well. In the physical realm, we would say that we are sick. The physical body can make-up for that one part not working. So it is in the spiritual body. We learn to compensate for the members who are run down, sluggish, discouraged. Yet, it would have been easier if the body had never had to make allowance for the non-working
part(s).
We did not choose who would be in the body and we cannot make suggestions as to who should leave (besides it isn't available- God has never black balled anyone) , BUT we can certainly help one another to grow up into Christ thereby causing the entire body to move like Herschel Walker.
By guarding your position in the body of Christ - doing your very best to make your function a strong point within the entire body, you help to make the overall body healthier. When everyone does their part, the body can run more rapid.
I'd like to suggest that each of you get a prayer partner and spend time each day in prayer. There is an old saying which goes like this, "More things are wrought by prayer than this world ever dreamed of." Prayer can move mountains of unbelief out of your life. You may also want to keep a running tally of when your prayers got answered. That will help keep you excited as well as build your confidence in your heavenly Father.
We all need our eyes, our ears, our feet, our hands and we all need one another- it just wouldn't be the same without you!
I Love You,
Rosie
RoseMary Beverly
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Belle
Thanks, Song! I shall peruse this during the day today.
:)-->
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
Belle,
Heres another if you would like~~~ dated early 90's
Dear Dan,
God Bless and Greetings to you in the wonderful name of our Living Lourde and Saviore Jesus Christ!
On Sunday October 20th at 5 pm you called my wife. You informed her this was on your heart to talk with her. That is very kind of you to think of us. I am sure your intent was one of pleasantry, you know , how's the weather type of thing- But the conversation turned into condemnation of our lives. Of course, you were being led by God to say such things since God only talks with those of the Household of The Way Ministry- The Body of Christ. If God only talks with those in the Household, what are you doing talking with us? Does this mean God is limited to talking with us through you? Since when did your blood become so pure?
That was the first paragraph~~~
Shall I post the rest of this missive Belle?
It's quite a letter
and I have a few more~~~
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
And Belle,
A many a missive I wrote callin back formers to TWI and no response and rightly so!!!
I even have one response by phone call
"If you ever get in touch with my family again~~~~"
THREAT MY LIFE!!!
Go figure eh!!!
That's how dedicated I was to TWI!
And also dedicated enough to my own good prudence something was not right~~~
TWInty years of that and good prudAnce a realization there is more to life than trying to control people and even much more and much more than I know~~~
I just prefer to be compassionate and laugh and cry and been there done that and ~~~
quietly try to walk on the water at the oceans edge~~~ my wife is witness~~~
that's really fun to try~~~
And I will always try that feat~~~ if it ever happens ~~~ oh my my my
Song
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