SameSong -- just wanted you to know that the door is always open to you at my abode. I do not have a "TWIG" for you to attend but we will think of something.
alfakat -- ekkss 6ckkppppthh kork and ms alfakat, ekkss-dirty dozen(12)
thank God the note was short so you did not have to wade through pages of WaySwill... -->
That was heart breaking. Lord Jesus have mercy on their souls, how cold and calculating.
he makes it sound like you stole their fine china or killed their puppy or worse.
look at the contrast look at it. your letter then his .
nothing has been done to RESPOND to ANY of the word of God that has been given to you.
what did he want do you know or was he just trying to blow you off as a bother and a no good for nothing.
that is awful stuff song. what baout the fact the bible says we are to be kind to one another ? that was NOT KIND> and you begging to belong where does he get off with that letter just where? you can not go to his twi anymore huh?
All I wanted to do was get my life right again with God.
And yah know, I think thats all God wants us to do. Regardless wether in an organization or everyday life, men abuse others. Truthfully, we can be joyful in the sense that God is larger than the circumstance. Take comfort in knowing that.
I think what makes suffering so inexorably difficult in a religous organization, is that it is unexpected. Of course, I thought the way kinda taught that suffering was religated to ones believing ( although that may have changed). Regardless, that view is kinda unrealistic.
Anyways , in a religious organization you kind of expect better in terms of kindness and honesty. This is simply not the truth any any religious organization. You can find abusive people everywhere.
Certainly in my life, I have suffered worse than the pratfals of men in cleric robes. Regardless the type of suffering, there ought to be some benefit to it, in terms of personal growth.
quote:I think what makes suffering so inexorably difficult in a religous organization, is that it is unexpected.
Excellent observation! I also have had a couple of exchanges of letters with TWI leaders. One was with VPW, in response to a form letter he sent to those Corps who did not attend Corps Week that year. He asked something like, "What did I do wrong?" So I very respectfully told him. I explained how I felt I had been abandoned across the country from my family, and away from the care of other believers, even though I had done nothing wrong. (It was because of my husband's drinking that we were assigned where we were.) Wierwille himself had promised help for my husband, but had not provided it. I had two young children, and no money.
One would have thought the "Christian" response would be to acknowledge the hurt, or to encourage my continued stand for God. Nah. Wierwille just scribbled across the top of the letter that I was "bitter." What an easy way to dismiss the pain of another, and hard to disprove.
I think that was there mood of operation. It would of cost them time and money to help. If we didn't fall in line we were labled one way or another.
Our son was born a premi on July 11 83, my wife had to stay in hospital longer than him with all his challenges. it took lots of money and time to even get over that trama. I was trying to run my own bussiness. Because of my lack of being at work my resorces were down the drain.
i should of with all comon sence not gone to Ohio at all for the 2 week deal.
Who in there right ming will sleep in a tent the put on a suit to go to a stupid meeting where you are going to ge loving reproof (haha).
So my wife stays home just getting out the hospital a few days earlier than when i left. And what do they say is your wife coped out? Whats wrong with her not coming?
What was wrong with me to even think they cared and i allowed the abuse.
I do not agree with the rosy glasses you have on. Many ex-twi and those still involved would have a better quality of life if not for the CULT!]
no I do not wonder what it may have been without it in a sorry poor me mode of thinking but I KNOW the pain lingers for many for an entire life time.
personal growth can be accomplished by our LORD and by our own particpating in a NORMAL lifestyle.
I try not to think of the cost but I will NEVER dismiss the cost of many that will not be repaired .
I personaly have learned I do not need to go through he11 to learn I am being used and abused and you want me to say that is GROWTH?? it isnt growth see in a NORMAL person they kind of recognize that as a given in life.
"personal growth???? . . . personal torture maybe."
Sometimes those two go hand-in-hand.
"I do not agree with the rosy glasses you have on. Many ex-twi and those still involved would have a better quality of life if not for the CULT!"
True, though perhaps many others prospered.
"personal growth can be accomplished by our LORD and by our own particpating in a NORMAL lifestyle."
I agree that growth needs to be accomplished walking hand-in-hand with Our Lord. Does that also require a culturaly 'normal' lifestyle? I dont agree. Many people can 'grow' with Our Lord, even though their personal lifestyles fit in with entirely different cultures.
"I try not to think of the cost but I will NEVER dismiss the cost of many that will not be repaired"
No matter what you did with 5 years, or 10 years, or 20 years; thsoe years are gone. Nothing can be done today to regain those years. Whether you spent that time working for the Peace Corps, or sweeping floors in a factory, the time would still be gone.
Everyone who was alive in the '60's and is alive today, has 'spent' the same relative amount of time, 'wasting' decades. Unless they personally have grown. Not one of us, can repair the time that has gone by.
We can learn from our past; strive to do our best in the present; and look forward planning for a better future.
normal as in not being used and abused in a wasted time spent it has NOTING to do with culture Galen.
if the culture is abusive and a person is not able to flourish his own self it is a waste and clearly in the "culture" or system of twi personal growth was destroyed and stunted.
maybe for life. growth takes change and new ideas and the ability to cope without group think and co-dependency. personal growth takes independent thinking, twi offered none of these avenues of thought and in fact murdered the ability to do such in many.
quote:"SameSong -- just wanted you to know that the door is always open to you at my abode. I do not have a "TWIG" for you to attend but we will think of something.
alfakat -- ekkss 6ckkppppthh kork and ms alfakat, ekkss-dirty dozen(12)
thank God the note was short so you did not have to wade through pages of WaySwill..."
alfakat,
Thank you very much for the open door :)--> and no twig for me to attend :D-->.
And btw, there were plenty of pages of VerbalWaySwill... heh -heh.
And what is "ekkss 6ckkppppthh kork and ms alfakat, ekkss-dirty dozen(12)" ?
quote,"That was heart breaking. Lord Jesus have mercy on their souls, how cold and calculating.
he makes it sound like you stole their fine china or killed their puppy or worse.
look at the contrast look at it. your letter then his .
nothing has been done to RESPOND to ANY of the word of God that has been given to you.
what did he want do you know or was he just trying to blow you off as a bother and a no good for nothing.
that is awful stuff song. what baout the fact the bible says we are to be kind to one another ? that was NOT KIND> and you begging to belong where does he get off with that letter just where? you can not go to his twi anymore huh?"
mj412,
It seems to me you did not see the dates on those letters in ref to ..."you can not go to his twi anymore huh?." I have not been to Twig in 9 years. Just wanted to clear that :)-->
And yes it was "cold and calculating " as well as destructive mentally and sadistic. And there was more to that story as well. I called this "leader" regarding his last "NOTE" to me and discussed with him 'the whys of his letter". The coversation basically boiled down to read his letter again. --> I then asked him if I could attend another twig on my side of town. He told me ...."sure... do what you want... you are just not welcome at my twig for now...".
So we attended our former "Buddy Twig". He got the word on that and called me and told me..."What was I doing going behind his back attending another twig?" I refreshed his memory our former conversation and he denied he even talked with me. I just quietly hung up the phone and immediatly called my "Buddy Twig" Co and my former Assistant Co and informed them that I did not want to jeopardise their stand with TWI and had to straighten some things out with leadership and would see them at that time.
There was more that followed. More lies, more deciet and manipulation as I continued to place myself under his MOGSHIP.I wanted to return to the fellowships.I was put on probation and was not to have any contact with any believers except him .
I had no where to go. Talk about a mind bend!!!
And there was even more to follow.
All I wanted to do was to get back in with the true household of god, the true body of christ.
Forgive me, but after I'd read your letter and then got to the missive from your "feyahless leaduh", I just broke out laughing. It was just SOOOOO absurd.
Cheezus Gawd, for all the talk of "The Love of God" and "Walking in Love", blah, blah, blah,...so many Wayfers didn't even know how to fake a loving response. Hell, that clown couldn't even fake a HUMAN response!
The Way International - and all it's various and sundry lackies (and spinoffs) is so utterly devoid of anything worthwhile, so completely inbred and self-serving, and just so unbelievably STUPID, I stand in awe.
The one thing in my life that I've done that I would unhesitatingly say was disgraceful was to ever get involved with that pathetic P.O.S. organization. I'm truly ashamed of that.
I trust your life is going immeasurably better now that you've broken free. Sorry for the all the #$%^ they threw at you in the meantime, though.
And it's a dump, but you're welcome at my house anytime as well.
quote sky4it~~~ "... in a religious organization you kind of expect better in terms of kindness and honesty. This is simply not the truth any any religious organization. You can find abusive people everywhere.
Certainly in my life, I have suffered worse than the pratfals of men in cleric robes. Regardless the type of suffering, there ought to be some benefit to it, in terms of personal growth."
*****
quote Shaz~~~ "...Wierwille himself had promised help for my husband, but had not provided it. I had two young children, and no money.One would have thought the "Christian" response would be to acknowledge the hurt, or to encourage my continued stand forGod. Nah. Wierwille just scribbled across the top of the letter that I was "bitter." What an easy way to dismiss the pain of another, and hard to disprove."
*****
quote Danny~~~"...So my wife stays home just getting out the hospital a few days earlier than when i left. And what do they say is your wife coped out? Whats wrong with her not coming?
What was wrong with me to even think they cared and i allowed the abuse."
*****
quote mj412~~~ "...but I KNOW the pain lingers for many for an entire life time.
...I try not to think of the cost but I will NEVER dismiss the cost of many that will not be repaired . ..
...this growth was and is NOT needed in life."
*****
quote Galen~~~ "...No matter what you did with 5 years, or 10 years, or 20 years; thsoe years are gone. Nothing can be done today to regain those years. Whether you spent that time working for the Peace Corps, or sweeping floors in a factory, the time would still be gone.
Everyone who was alive in the '60's and is alive today, has 'spent' the same relative amount of time, 'wasting' decades. Unless they personally have grown. Not one of us, can repair the time that has gone by.
We can learn from our past; strive to do our best in the present; and look forward planning for a better future."
*****
Ahh personal growth gained at the expense of ones mind and its inner workings to move forward from such traumatic or wonderful events experienced in the past. Every day of the past was a present day that turns into the next day which is the present. It only seems like yesterday to me that I wrote that letter, but yet it was 9 years ago. The past and future become today everyday. Yes the past is gone and the future is not here yet. All we can do is live inbetween the two.
Yes the past is gone and no one can regain those years unless ya have one of them DeLoreans. Or ya take your mind to those experiences and poof there you are... in an instant in the past today. Anything can trigger the past into today. It is etched in the memories of your mind. The product of GSC is "inextribaly" woven from the accumalation or our past experiences TWI wether mutual or not. But that does not mean we can not "extricate", unravel those tangled tapestry's of thought and aleviate the "pain" that will not be repaired AND or the wonderful times we had~~~ a balance eh
People live with pain every day as well as there will be those in any strata of society who will inflict the same.
Here is another excerpt of a 2 page typed missive I wrote in 7/86 to wonderful friends of mine. A wonderful couple. Very devout Baptists who confronted me my involvement TWI. The husband a Prof. at Ga State U. The wife an elementary school teacher.Their lifes are one of prosperity to this day.
quote~~~ "...I wanted to write you concerning my heart for the Word of God and The Way Ministry...
...I know you have been doing some studies on cults and there attributes. I know and believe it is wise to be aware of false doctrines, fiery darts of the wicked, traditions of men, and doctrines of devils...
...I very well know a lot of the teachings, criticism, derogatory and slanderous remarks and articles written about The Way. I do not stand in defence of the ministry or in defence of the Word of God because they need no defence.I have checked out many many of these accusations and found them to be out of context, biased, and out and out vicious lies...
...I have seen people who stood for this ministry for years and speak out against it saying they have been brainwashed or hoodwinked....
...God is no respector of persons but of conditions set forth in His Word...I have seen great deliverence in my life from drugs, emptiness, and a terrible accident I suffered... I am not suppose to be able to run, walk, or squat... it impossible for me to do those activities according to my x rays and the orthopedic doctors/surgeons... I was and still delivered by the Word of God this ministry has taught me...
...I tell you I am not saying these things because I am brainwashed, manipulated, tortured, or fearful, but because I know that I know that I know that I am completely, completely, completely complete in God in Christ in me...
...So I just thought I would send you a magazine and a few other items this ministry publishes to show you a more realistic look about The Way. You must know both sides to make a decision. OUR MINISTRY HAS NOTHING TO HIDE. YOU ARE FREE TO COME AND YOU ARE FREE TO GO. NO STRINGS ATTACHED..."
*****
The bold letters are emphasis the contradictions ANY ones involvement TWI. They were absolutely right TWI was, is, and will always be a destructive cult. They never returned reply nor would return phone calls. I met with them a year ago~~~ 17 years later. They are still devout Baptists and thankfull that I finally left TWI's strangle hold.
"normal as in not being used and abused in a wasted time spent it has NOTING to do with culture Galen. if the culture is abusive and a person is not able to flourish his own self it is a waste and clearly in the "culture" or system of twi personal growth was destroyed and stunted."
There are beleivers who live in cultures where they are persecuted for their beleifs.
I have known and seen others withing TWI who have been able to grow and prosper, so obviously not EVERYONE allowed being active within TWI to destroy or stunt their growth.
Here on GS the appearant majority are people who felt abused and mis-treated. Certainly there were attempts to abuse and mis-treat me, I did not let that stop me. Did I put up with it? maybe sometimes so long as it did not stop me from ministering to others.
"maybe for life. growth takes change and new ideas and the ability to cope without group think and co-dependency. personal growth takes independent thinking, twi offered none of these avenues of thought and in fact murdered the ability to do such in many."
"independent thinking" skills offered by a group? kind of an anti-thesis. The military does not encourage it either does that mean it is not allowed? No. What happens within my brain is my business. Can a group, or corporation, or ministry stop what happens within my brain? No.
If someone was not allowed to think independently, or if someone was required to develop a co-dependency; I think they would be susceptible in any church environment.
if personal growth and torture are parallel or veritical or horizontal, "the way" might have the corner on the market
song, your letter and that reply saddens me
it is so similar to those i received from wierwille and martindale. sometimes i wish i had saved mine just to prove to somebody, myself, that they really were that cruel
Hey dig it. Laugh it up for sure!!! :P--> ;)--> It became even funnier as " on my way out" I continued "to try to get back in." Damn how many hints did I need??? :D-->
Yeah, all that love isolating me and my wife to dominate and control us through some sort of TWIsted scheme to help us back to the santified household sure made a lot of NON Sence that I thought I was actually understanding.
So, I wrote another letter to a respected long time believer rooted and grounded in the word who then sold his beautiful home quit his high paying job and uprooted his family for a full time POSition up in No. Carolina (Way Corp # whateva). We were pretty good buds, both twig cos in the same area ~~~ SOOooo i thought i could seek his help under the table as to what to do with my predictament. -->
I don't know if i have that letter or not or his reply.
EnnyHOOTS I quoted a song from his cd and asked for his help. Yeah right!!! He body slammed me~~~ How dare I take his song out of context and that I was full of treachery and needed to resolve this with my local leadership.
Whew whew just digging on all that love. Back to square Oblivion One.
I tell ya Geo, you are right , I am currently LMAO the insanity of such situations similar to mine. Here's something even more ABSURD!!! My former Assitant Twig Co, (retired from military wonderful man and his wife, been around for years, his wife a grad from Chile and he from Texas, just wonderful peaceful content beautiful people>get the point)... well another ennyHOOTS... he liked to have a rum and coke each evening before he went to bed~~~ dig this man~~~ weeks later after I atttended that "Buddy Twig", My friend called ME!!! he told me He was sent a letter from Broo** stating that since he rufused not to comply with leaderships decision to quit having his one rum and coke each evening (it was only an ounce or two of rum for crying out loud) that he was now MARK AND AVOIDED PERIOD!!! He said, "Can you believe that ....?" I was floored freaking flabberghasted.
I just busted out laughing and he did too.
I still continued to get back to the household... that makes even more funnier... .... man... What would Red say on That 70's Show
"Dumb Azz"
Hey it even gets better than that heh heh
But enny hoots i'll save it for later...
Yeah Geo, my life is mucho better since i finally got some real pro counseling this year... Thank God for Zoloft.
Hey thanks for the invite. Kewl Man!!!
Oh and uhm ... them kid better graduate college... they'll take care of your retirement!!!
I called the LC to discuss the bs that the BC was dishing out and so we ended up in a three way phone conversation with my wife on the extension and the BC's wife on the other. The BC lied his aZZ off to the LC. I told our sitiuation and the LC basically said that he had to agree with the BC because of his leadership position and that I was on probation... My wife and I just shook our heads with smiling faces. I mean we just could believe our ears.
well ex, I have only one personal letter from LCM dated
May 1, 1991
(address at that time)
Dear Steven:
God bless you in the name of Jesus Christ.
Surely enjoyed your recent letter. I'm thankful for the deliverance you have received and for all that God is doing for you as you continue to keep Him first and faithfully serve His people.
God's best to you and yours.
Sincerely,
In Christ
(signature)
L. Craig Martindale
LCM/ps
**********
I also wish you did keep your letters from those two.
Do you know how much the above letter meant to me back then??? I was thrilled!!!
Do you know how much that letter means to me now??? Bull.... times cattle on a thousand hills!!!!!!!
You know why??? Because the WCO8 in '95 guy that wrote me came straight fresh from HQ and that was lcm's true heart delivered on a platter of cruelty.
Like you said ..."it is so similar to those i received from wierwille and martindale. sometimes i wish i had saved mine just to prove to somebody, myself, that they really were that cruel"
Danny said something about sleeping in a tent and putting on a suit.
For some reason that really strikes me as funny now to think of it.
Sleep in a tent and put on a suit! Ha ha ha ha ha.
That's almost as funny as using all your vacation time after begging for that slot off and hoping you don't have to quit your job for it, and spending your last cent on a plane ticket and checking in a tent to go sleep in it and put on a suit or a fancy dress. ha ha ha ha.
And of course that stupid Corps Week/ROA had to be in August which is the rainiest month of the year in Ohio.
Oh, don't get me started.
ha ha ha ha ha. I can laugh now because I don't have to do it anymore.
snicker....snort...GUFFAW! so many fond memories of roa...out n about...lol
AFTER you beg off of work...spend every penny you`ve got to arrive....
Huddling terrified in a tent as vivid lightening cracked down in ground shattering non stop roar....people running around in their underwear in the middle of the night in gail force windds attempting to put blown over tents back up (and failing)....
Omg food poisoning.....lying helpless in the stifeling heat...without access to food or water because you are too weak to crawl the 1/2 mile to grounds and the food tents and wait in line.....wholely dependant on whether or not your twig buddies happen to remember to send out a yogurt or drink to you that day.....
I have a letter from Craig that says simply "Glad you realized your error and are making efforts to repair"
This was in response to a letter the LC forced me to write about being a bad girl and telling on a dude that was "allegedly messing around" with kids in our fellowship.
HA! Talk about hyprocritical.
And yup, the dude is still messing with kids, still in a 'leadership' (gag) position.
If I knew for certain that the guy is still "messing" with kids, I'd drop a dime on him in a heartbeat. Give an anonymous call to CPS and they'll be all over him like a cheap suit.
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alfakat
SameSong -- just wanted you to know that the door is always open to you at my abode. I do not have a "TWIG" for you to attend but we will think of something.
alfakat -- ekkss 6ckkppppthh kork and ms alfakat, ekkss-dirty dozen(12)
thank God the note was short so you did not have to wade through pages of WaySwill...
-->
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mj412
That was heart breaking. Lord Jesus have mercy on their souls, how cold and calculating.
he makes it sound like you stole their fine china or killed their puppy or worse.
look at the contrast look at it. your letter then his .
nothing has been done to RESPOND to ANY of the word of God that has been given to you.
what did he want do you know or was he just trying to blow you off as a bother and a no good for nothing.
that is awful stuff song. what baout the fact the bible says we are to be kind to one another ? that was NOT KIND> and you begging to belong where does he get off with that letter just where? you can not go to his twi anymore huh?
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sky4it
The song remains:
your comment:
All I wanted to do was get my life right again with God.
And yah know, I think thats all God wants us to do. Regardless wether in an organization or everyday life, men abuse others. Truthfully, we can be joyful in the sense that God is larger than the circumstance. Take comfort in knowing that.
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sky4it
The song remains:
I think what makes suffering so inexorably difficult in a religous organization, is that it is unexpected. Of course, I thought the way kinda taught that suffering was religated to ones believing ( although that may have changed). Regardless, that view is kinda unrealistic.
Anyways , in a religious organization you kind of expect better in terms of kindness and honesty. This is simply not the truth any any religious organization. You can find abusive people everywhere.
Certainly in my life, I have suffered worse than the pratfals of men in cleric robes. Regardless the type of suffering, there ought to be some benefit to it, in terms of personal growth.
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shazdancer
Dear sky4it, you said
Excellent observation! I also have had a couple of exchanges of letters with TWI leaders. One was with VPW, in response to a form letter he sent to those Corps who did not attend Corps Week that year. He asked something like, "What did I do wrong?" So I very respectfully told him. I explained how I felt I had been abandoned across the country from my family, and away from the care of other believers, even though I had done nothing wrong. (It was because of my husband's drinking that we were assigned where we were.) Wierwille himself had promised help for my husband, but had not provided it. I had two young children, and no money.One would have thought the "Christian" response would be to acknowledge the hurt, or to encourage my continued stand for God. Nah. Wierwille just scribbled across the top of the letter that I was "bitter." What an easy way to dismiss the pain of another, and hard to disprove.
Regards,
Shaz
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Danny
Shaz
I think that was there mood of operation. It would of cost them time and money to help. If we didn't fall in line we were labled one way or another.
Our son was born a premi on July 11 83, my wife had to stay in hospital longer than him with all his challenges. it took lots of money and time to even get over that trama. I was trying to run my own bussiness. Because of my lack of being at work my resorces were down the drain.
i should of with all comon sence not gone to Ohio at all for the 2 week deal.
Who in there right ming will sleep in a tent the put on a suit to go to a stupid meeting where you are going to ge loving reproof (haha).
So my wife stays home just getting out the hospital a few days earlier than when i left. And what do they say is your wife coped out? Whats wrong with her not coming?
What was wrong with me to even think they cared and i allowed the abuse.
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mj412
personal growth????
hahahahhaha
personal torture maybe.
I do not agree with the rosy glasses you have on. Many ex-twi and those still involved would have a better quality of life if not for the CULT!]
no I do not wonder what it may have been without it in a sorry poor me mode of thinking but I KNOW the pain lingers for many for an entire life time.
personal growth can be accomplished by our LORD and by our own particpating in a NORMAL lifestyle.
I try not to think of the cost but I will NEVER dismiss the cost of many that will not be repaired .
I personaly have learned I do not need to go through he11 to learn I am being used and abused and you want me to say that is GROWTH?? it isnt growth see in a NORMAL person they kind of recognize that as a given in life.
many of us did not. and still struggle with it.
this growth was and is NOT needed in life.
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Galen
mj412:
"personal growth???? . . . personal torture maybe."
Sometimes those two go hand-in-hand.
"I do not agree with the rosy glasses you have on. Many ex-twi and those still involved would have a better quality of life if not for the CULT!"
True, though perhaps many others prospered.
"personal growth can be accomplished by our LORD and by our own particpating in a NORMAL lifestyle."
I agree that growth needs to be accomplished walking hand-in-hand with Our Lord. Does that also require a culturaly 'normal' lifestyle? I dont agree. Many people can 'grow' with Our Lord, even though their personal lifestyles fit in with entirely different cultures.
"I try not to think of the cost but I will NEVER dismiss the cost of many that will not be repaired"
No matter what you did with 5 years, or 10 years, or 20 years; thsoe years are gone. Nothing can be done today to regain those years. Whether you spent that time working for the Peace Corps, or sweeping floors in a factory, the time would still be gone.
Everyone who was alive in the '60's and is alive today, has 'spent' the same relative amount of time, 'wasting' decades. Unless they personally have grown. Not one of us, can repair the time that has gone by.
We can learn from our past; strive to do our best in the present; and look forward planning for a better future.
.
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mj412
normal as in not being used and abused in a wasted time spent it has NOTING to do with culture Galen.
if the culture is abusive and a person is not able to flourish his own self it is a waste and clearly in the "culture" or system of twi personal growth was destroyed and stunted.
maybe for life. growth takes change and new ideas and the ability to cope without group think and co-dependency. personal growth takes independent thinking, twi offered none of these avenues of thought and in fact murdered the ability to do such in many.
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
quote:"SameSong -- just wanted you to know that the door is always open to you at my abode. I do not have a "TWIG" for you to attend but we will think of something.
alfakat -- ekkss 6ckkppppthh kork and ms alfakat, ekkss-dirty dozen(12)
thank God the note was short so you did not have to wade through pages of WaySwill..."
alfakat,
Thank you very much for the open door
:)--> and no twig for me to attend 
:D-->.
And btw, there were plenty of pages of VerbalWaySwill... heh -heh.
And what is "ekkss 6ckkppppthh kork and ms alfakat, ekkss-dirty dozen(12)" ?
Rok On
Song
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
quote,"That was heart breaking. Lord Jesus have mercy on their souls, how cold and calculating.
he makes it sound like you stole their fine china or killed their puppy or worse.
look at the contrast look at it. your letter then his .
nothing has been done to RESPOND to ANY of the word of God that has been given to you.
what did he want do you know or was he just trying to blow you off as a bother and a no good for nothing.
that is awful stuff song. what baout the fact the bible says we are to be kind to one another ? that was NOT KIND> and you begging to belong where does he get off with that letter just where? you can not go to his twi anymore huh?"
mj412,
It seems to me you did not see the dates on those letters in ref to ..."you can not go to his twi anymore huh?." I have not been to Twig in 9 years. Just wanted to clear that
:)-->
And yes it was "cold and calculating " as well as destructive mentally and sadistic. And there was more to that story as well. I called this "leader" regarding his last "NOTE" to me and discussed with him 'the whys of his letter". The coversation basically boiled down to read his letter again.
--> I then asked him if I could attend another twig on my side of town. He told me ...."sure... do what you want... you are just not welcome at my twig for now...".
So we attended our former "Buddy Twig". He got the word on that and called me and told me..."What was I doing going behind his back attending another twig?" I refreshed his memory our former conversation and he denied he even talked with me. I just quietly hung up the phone and immediatly called my "Buddy Twig" Co and my former Assistant Co and informed them that I did not want to jeopardise their stand with TWI and had to straighten some things out with leadership and would see them at that time.
There was more that followed. More lies, more deciet and manipulation as I continued to place myself under his MOGSHIP.I wanted to return to the fellowships.I was put on probation and was not to have any contact with any believers except him .
I had no where to go. Talk about a mind bend!!!
And there was even more to follow.
All I wanted to do was to get back in with the true household of god, the true body of christ.
Rok On
Song
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George Aar
Song,
Forgive me, but after I'd read your letter and then got to the missive from your "feyahless leaduh", I just broke out laughing. It was just SOOOOO absurd.
Cheezus Gawd, for all the talk of "The Love of God" and "Walking in Love", blah, blah, blah,...so many Wayfers didn't even know how to fake a loving response. Hell, that clown couldn't even fake a HUMAN response!
The Way International - and all it's various and sundry lackies (and spinoffs) is so utterly devoid of anything worthwhile, so completely inbred and self-serving, and just so unbelievably STUPID, I stand in awe.
The one thing in my life that I've done that I would unhesitatingly say was disgraceful was to ever get involved with that pathetic P.O.S. organization. I'm truly ashamed of that.
I trust your life is going immeasurably better now that you've broken free. Sorry for the all the #$%^ they threw at you in the meantime, though.
And it's a dump, but you're welcome at my house anytime as well.
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fortunateone
So sorry for your Way Troubles.
I had mine also.
Very sad how the WAy distorted the concept of
"confrontation."
The biblical idea of confront before two or three witnesses was twisted to mean,
the leader figures out what is wrong with you
then gets a couple of his people to meet with you and confront you. Then they all agree to these findings even if the witnesses never
witnessed anything of the sort.
The ruined believer is then left to figure out
what he did wrong and confess and be humble
to change. Which is then ignored by the leader
and you are sujected to further ridicule and denegration.
You lose!
Or do you win cause you are then inspired to quit TWI.
Woe to the pastors that scatters the Lords flock
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
quote sky4it~~~ "... in a religious organization you kind of expect better in terms of kindness and honesty. This is simply not the truth any any religious organization. You can find abusive people everywhere.
Certainly in my life, I have suffered worse than the pratfals of men in cleric robes. Regardless the type of suffering, there ought to be some benefit to it, in terms of personal growth."
*****
quote Shaz~~~ "...Wierwille himself had promised help for my husband, but had not provided it. I had two young children, and no money.One would have thought the "Christian" response would be to acknowledge the hurt, or to encourage my continued stand forGod. Nah. Wierwille just scribbled across the top of the letter that I was "bitter." What an easy way to dismiss the pain of another, and hard to disprove."
*****
quote Danny~~~"...So my wife stays home just getting out the hospital a few days earlier than when i left. And what do they say is your wife coped out? Whats wrong with her not coming?
What was wrong with me to even think they cared and i allowed the abuse."
*****
quote mj412~~~ "...but I KNOW the pain lingers for many for an entire life time.
...I try not to think of the cost but I will NEVER dismiss the cost of many that will not be repaired . ..
...this growth was and is NOT needed in life."
*****
quote Galen~~~ "...No matter what you did with 5 years, or 10 years, or 20 years; thsoe years are gone. Nothing can be done today to regain those years. Whether you spent that time working for the Peace Corps, or sweeping floors in a factory, the time would still be gone.
Everyone who was alive in the '60's and is alive today, has 'spent' the same relative amount of time, 'wasting' decades. Unless they personally have grown. Not one of us, can repair the time that has gone by.
We can learn from our past; strive to do our best in the present; and look forward planning for a better future."
*****
Ahh personal growth gained at the expense of ones mind and its inner workings to move forward from such traumatic or wonderful events experienced in the past. Every day of the past was a present day that turns into the next day which is the present. It only seems like yesterday to me that I wrote that letter, but yet it was 9 years ago. The past and future become today everyday. Yes the past is gone and the future is not here yet. All we can do is live inbetween the two.
Yes the past is gone and no one can regain those years unless ya have one of them DeLoreans. Or ya take your mind to those experiences and poof there you are... in an instant in the past today. Anything can trigger the past into today. It is etched in the memories of your mind. The product of GSC is "inextribaly" woven from the accumalation or our past experiences TWI wether mutual or not. But that does not mean we can not "extricate", unravel those tangled tapestry's of thought and aleviate the "pain" that will not be repaired AND or the wonderful times we had~~~ a balance eh
People live with pain every day as well as there will be those in any strata of society who will inflict the same.
Here is another excerpt of a 2 page typed missive I wrote in 7/86 to wonderful friends of mine. A wonderful couple. Very devout Baptists who confronted me my involvement TWI. The husband a Prof. at Ga State U. The wife an elementary school teacher.Their lifes are one of prosperity to this day.
quote~~~ "...I wanted to write you concerning my heart for the Word of God and The Way Ministry...
...I know you have been doing some studies on cults and there attributes. I know and believe it is wise to be aware of false doctrines, fiery darts of the wicked, traditions of men, and doctrines of devils...
...I very well know a lot of the teachings, criticism, derogatory and slanderous remarks and articles written about The Way. I do not stand in defence of the ministry or in defence of the Word of God because they need no defence.I have checked out many many of these accusations and found them to be out of context, biased, and out and out vicious lies...
...I have seen people who stood for this ministry for years and speak out against it saying they have been brainwashed or hoodwinked....
...God is no respector of persons but of conditions set forth in His Word...I have seen great deliverence in my life from drugs, emptiness, and a terrible accident I suffered... I am not suppose to be able to run, walk, or squat... it impossible for me to do those activities according to my x rays and the orthopedic doctors/surgeons... I was and still delivered by the Word of God this ministry has taught me...
...I tell you I am not saying these things because I am brainwashed, manipulated, tortured, or fearful, but because I know that I know that I know that I am completely, completely, completely complete in God in Christ in me...
...So I just thought I would send you a magazine and a few other items this ministry publishes to show you a more realistic look about The Way. You must know both sides to make a decision. OUR MINISTRY HAS NOTHING TO HIDE. YOU ARE FREE TO COME AND YOU ARE FREE TO GO. NO STRINGS ATTACHED..."
*****
The bold letters are emphasis the contradictions ANY ones involvement TWI. They were absolutely right TWI was, is, and will always be a destructive cult. They never returned reply nor would return phone calls. I met with them a year ago~~~ 17 years later. They are still devout Baptists and thankfull that I finally left TWI's strangle hold.
I did prosper by TWI and also devoured by TWI.
Rok On
Song
.
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Galen
mj412:
"normal as in not being used and abused in a wasted time spent it has NOTING to do with culture Galen. if the culture is abusive and a person is not able to flourish his own self it is a waste and clearly in the "culture" or system of twi personal growth was destroyed and stunted."
There are beleivers who live in cultures where they are persecuted for their beleifs.
I have known and seen others withing TWI who have been able to grow and prosper, so obviously not EVERYONE allowed being active within TWI to destroy or stunt their growth.
Here on GS the appearant majority are people who felt abused and mis-treated. Certainly there were attempts to abuse and mis-treat me, I did not let that stop me. Did I put up with it? maybe sometimes so long as it did not stop me from ministering to others.
"maybe for life. growth takes change and new ideas and the ability to cope without group think and co-dependency. personal growth takes independent thinking, twi offered none of these avenues of thought and in fact murdered the ability to do such in many."
"independent thinking" skills offered by a group? kind of an anti-thesis. The military does not encourage it either does that mean it is not allowed? No. What happens within my brain is my business. Can a group, or corporation, or ministry stop what happens within my brain? No.
If someone was not allowed to think independently, or if someone was required to develop a co-dependency; I think they would be susceptible in any church environment.
:-)
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excathedra
if personal growth and torture are parallel or veritical or horizontal, "the way" might have the corner on the market
song, your letter and that reply saddens me
it is so similar to those i received from wierwille and martindale. sometimes i wish i had saved mine just to prove to somebody, myself, that they really were that cruel
thank you for sharing your sweet wild soul
love,
ex
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
George,
Hey dig it. Laugh it up for sure!!!
:P--> 
;)--> It became even funnier as " on my way out" I continued "to try to get back in." Damn how many hints did I need??? 
:D-->
Yeah, all that love isolating me and my wife to dominate and control us through some sort of TWIsted scheme to help us back to the santified household sure made a lot of NON Sence that I thought I was actually understanding.
So, I wrote another letter to a respected long time believer rooted and grounded in the word who then sold his beautiful home quit his high paying job and uprooted his family for a full time POSition up in No. Carolina (Way Corp # whateva). We were pretty good buds, both twig cos in the same area ~~~ SOOooo i thought i could seek his help under the table as to what to do with my predictament.
-->
I don't know if i have that letter or not or his reply.
EnnyHOOTS I quoted a song from his cd and asked for his help. Yeah right!!! He body slammed me~~~ How dare I take his song out of context and that I was full of treachery and needed to resolve this with my local leadership.
Whew whew just digging on all that love. Back to square Oblivion One.
I tell ya Geo, you are right , I am currently LMAO the insanity of such situations similar to mine. Here's something even more ABSURD!!! My former Assitant Twig Co, (retired from military wonderful man and his wife, been around for years, his wife a grad from Chile and he from Texas, just wonderful peaceful content beautiful people>get the point)... well another ennyHOOTS... he liked to have a rum and coke each evening before he went to bed~~~ dig this man~~~ weeks later after I atttended that "Buddy Twig", My friend called ME!!! he told me He was sent a letter from Broo** stating that since he rufused not to comply with leaderships decision to quit having his one rum and coke each evening (it was only an ounce or two of rum for crying out loud) that he was now MARK AND AVOIDED PERIOD!!! He said, "Can you believe that ....?" I was floored freaking flabberghasted.
I just busted out laughing and he did too.
I still continued to get back to the household... that makes even more funnier... .... man... What would Red say on That 70's Show
"Dumb Azz"
Hey it even gets better than that heh heh
But enny hoots i'll save it for later...
Yeah Geo, my life is mucho better since i finally got some real pro counseling this year... Thank God for Zoloft.
Hey thanks for the invite. Kewl Man!!!
Oh and uhm ... them kid better graduate college... they'll take care of your retirement!!!
Rok On
Song
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
Fortunateone,
You certainly nailed that on the head.
I called the LC to discuss the bs that the BC was dishing out and so we ended up in a three way phone conversation with my wife on the extension and the BC's wife on the other. The BC lied his aZZ off to the LC. I told our sitiuation and the LC basically said that he had to agree with the BC because of his leadership position and that I was on probation... My wife and I just shook our heads with smiling faces. I mean we just could believe our ears.
Right ON Fortunateone
Right On
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tomtuttle
The Way for Me - From Love Unto Venom.
What "natural" man would ever stand for this kind of "righteous indignation"?? Seems the natural man may have more "prudence" than many wafers ...
What a wunnerful bunch of leaders and teachers we had ...
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
(((((((EXC)))))))
well ex, I have only one personal letter from LCM dated
May 1, 1991
(address at that time)
Dear Steven:
God bless you in the name of Jesus Christ.
Surely enjoyed your recent letter. I'm thankful for the deliverance you have received and for all that God is doing for you as you continue to keep Him first and faithfully serve His people.
God's best to you and yours.
Sincerely,
In Christ
(signature)
L. Craig Martindale
LCM/ps
**********
I also wish you did keep your letters from those two.
Do you know how much the above letter meant to me back then??? I was thrilled!!!
Do you know how much that letter means to me now??? Bull.... times cattle on a thousand hills!!!!!!!
You know why??? Because the WCO8 in '95 guy that wrote me came straight fresh from HQ and that was lcm's true heart delivered on a platter of cruelty.
Like you said ..."it is so similar to those i received from wierwille and martindale. sometimes i wish i had saved mine just to prove to somebody, myself, that they really were that cruel"
Thank you for being here
((((((( EXC)))))))!!!!!!!
Love You,
SWS
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outandabout
Danny said something about sleeping in a tent and putting on a suit.
For some reason that really strikes me as funny now to think of it.
Sleep in a tent and put on a suit! Ha ha ha ha ha.
That's almost as funny as using all your vacation time after begging for that slot off and hoping you don't have to quit your job for it, and spending your last cent on a plane ticket and checking in a tent to go sleep in it and put on a suit or a fancy dress. ha ha ha ha.
And of course that stupid Corps Week/ROA had to be in August which is the rainiest month of the year in Ohio.
Oh, don't get me started.
ha ha ha ha ha. I can laugh now because I don't have to do it anymore.
Sorry for the slight derail.
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rascal
snicker....snort...GUFFAW! so many fond memories of roa...out n about...lol
AFTER you beg off of work...spend every penny you`ve got to arrive....
Huddling terrified in a tent as vivid lightening cracked down in ground shattering non stop roar....people running around in their underwear in the middle of the night in gail force windds attempting to put blown over tents back up (and failing)....
Omg food poisoning.....lying helpless in the stifeling heat...without access to food or water because you are too weak to crawl the 1/2 mile to grounds and the food tents and wait in line.....wholely dependant on whether or not your twig buddies happen to remember to send out a yogurt or drink to you that day.....
gaaaaaawd bless, It`s GOOD to be home!
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Shellon
I have a letter from Craig that says simply "Glad you realized your error and are making efforts to repair"
This was in response to a letter the LC forced me to write about being a bad girl and telling on a dude that was "allegedly messing around" with kids in our fellowship.
HA! Talk about hyprocritical.
And yup, the dude is still messing with kids, still in a 'leadership' (gag) position.
That's a whole other talk show, tho, isn't it?
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George Aar
Shellon,
If I knew for certain that the guy is still "messing" with kids, I'd drop a dime on him in a heartbeat. Give an anonymous call to CPS and they'll be all over him like a cheap suit.
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