My time with Donna, was during the time period of 1978-80. At that time she was an arrogant, mean-spirited b*tch in her late twenties. She coveted after power...she explained to a bunch of us once that when she was "husband hunting", she had dated numerous top twi leaders, dropping names of 1st and 2nd corps guys. She said that when she got to craiggers, she knew he was the one, why? because she knew that he was going to "the top"...as she put it. She somehow knew that she was destined to be on the top rung of the twi ladder and she got herself there. It's almost like the story of MacBeth...ambition, power, money...she was willing to put up with lcm's adultery in order to maintain her position as "first lady of twi"...it was a simple tradeoff. Her disgust with her husband was only exceeded by her own lust for power and position. Today, she probably feels like she "earned" the right to live in the corps chalet for all the years of putting up with bozo. Of course, with her sexual orientation being in question, perhaps she is still "earning" her position as "first lady of twi"?
Uncle Hairy, that's exactly what she told me once in a conversation. She told me (this was late '70s), that she had decided years before she would do Whatever It Takes to "get to the top." She was totally committed to being a top hot dog (as they used to say). She was very calculating, although, back when she was young, to look at her, you never would have thunk it because at one time, she was a wonderful, compassionate person who truly did have a heart for people. In fact, I think it was that quality that helped get her to the "top."
She is where she is now by deliberate, scheming, decision.
I agree, if she's not with Craig, she should be with him now. Or, divorce. Quit playing this game and living a lie. If you're going to lead God's people, be honest. The corps standards they have set for others, and so cruelly enforced, should also be applied to her. No exceptions, corps and all that stuff right?
When I first read this thread I thought, "Why wish on DM the same grief that twi caused others to suffer? After all, perpetuating a stupid twi 'law' that devastated so many couples won't undo the harm it did to others." But the more I thought about this, the more I realized that unless she has a major change of heart and behavior, Donna does deserve to feel the sting of the consequences of her part in the twi fiasco.
Not only did she know what was going on with her husband's adultery, I'd be willing to bet she and RFR helped to make it happen. By the time LCM was made prez, Donna was already plenty cozy with RFR and they were pulling lots of strings behind the scenes. And her buddy RFR was badmouthing LCM behind his back. I heard it with my own ears.
Donna's suffered? Her kids probably have, and that's a shame, because their parents' BS was certainly none of their doing. But Donna? I don't think so.
First, I don't think she gave a rat's backside what LCM did with other women--it kept him out of her hair. And second, I'll betcha DM hasn't suffered nearly as much as the parents of a certain lovely, sweet, accomplished young woman did when DM announced to the entire twi world that their beautiful daughter's death in a horrible plane crash was their fault.
Suffered? Nah, she hasn't suffered when you compare the comfort she's living in with the horrible circumstances she helped put a lot of good people into.
Anyone worried about Donna's suffering ought to listen to that tape where she trashed A & N P about their daughter's death once or twice and remember what she became, not what she might have seemed to be 25 or 30 years ago.
Donna knows which side her bread is buttered on... and always has.
She knew which star to hitch her wagon to in order to get to the top. And how to behave in order to keep that position once she got there.
When I confronted her, Emogene, and Bill Winegarner in the back room of the BRC in 1983, she played innocent regarding the backdoor politicking at HQ so as not to rile any feathers. I took all three of them on at once and pinned them down each and every time they tried to tag me with a lie. Finally after Winegarner left in disgust and Emogene was excused, Donna told me she was just "so new" to her position at headquarters as the wife of the president, and it was not easy for her to "confront" such a "pillar" as the wife of a trustee. What a crop of crap. It was no problem for me to do it, regardless of consequence to myself, right in front of her, and she had been at HQ much longer than I.
Donna just can't seem to stand up for the truth when she knows it as long as her own comfort and reputation are at stake.
She couldn't do it then, she couldn't do it when her husband was exposed, and she won't do it now.
Suffer?
She has no idea what that word means. And she will do whatever it takes to make sure she never has to.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't D.M. approach Veepee and put a bug in his ear about her marrying LCM?...and then didn't Veepee actually "suggest" to LCM to marry her? Did I dream that...or did that actually happen?
Yeah, D.M. has always been a very calculating conniver...she always covered her own a$$...but how does twi justify letting her live in the chalet? Lcm poured in millions in security and state of the art whatever...the place is huge! It's really beautiful and should be used for something more appropriate than housing the defrocked minister's ex-wife...errr, I mean "seperated". I mean...REALLY! Maybe the corps director and his staff should be in there, with some offices and a steady flow of people in and out. Don't the innies mumble under their breath about how the corps chalet is being wasted on Donna?
I think that there should be an "official" campaign, to remove D.M. from the corps chalet. Put the b*tch in one of those old trailers they keep on the back forty...that's where trailer trash belongs anyway.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't D.M. approach Veepee and put a bug in his ear about her marrying LCM?...and then didn't Veepee actually "suggest" to LCM to marry her? Did I dream that...or did that actually happen
Her approach to him without his already thinking it?? I think he had her pegged prior. IMO that is!
Yes, Donna had decided on Craig from what she told me. It took VP to open Craig's eyes and get him to consider Donna. Craig had been very much in love with someone else, which didn't work out. Craig and Donna spent a bit of time together and Craig popped the question. Donna wanted him, VP brought them together.
Yes, Donna became very hard-hearted, but she was never one to rock the boat. She'd suggest. When Donna knew things weren't right, she never had the balls to stand up to people in authority, or fight for those being abused, like Catcup and others did. She still doesn't. She'll sit there until she's booted out - which I'm sure she will be one day if she crosses Rosie.
As for her kids, hey, I moved in high school as do millions of kids. They'll survive. Probably be good from them to get out from the oppresiveness of hq and see, there's a big world out there.
Let's see, she's not a trustee, not a cabinent member, doesn't run her own department, she's just "special assistant" to Rosie - i.e., a glorified secretary - so what's she doing in the chalet? I can't believe innies don't say anything about this, even among themselves.
She needs to go. Let her be hoisted on her own pitard and have here own rules be applied to her.
Yes, Donna had decided on Craig from what she told me. It took VP to open Craig's eyes and get him to consider Donna. Craig had been very much in love with someone else, which didn't work out. Craig and Donna spent a bit of time together and Craig popped the question. Donna wanted him, VP brought them together.
Thanks, your account makes more sense than what someone wanted me to believe of that situation. I appreciate the correction. :)-->
The innies left don't have the guts to ask any more. They've asked millions of times about DM and they get the verbal tapshoe with no answer. They know that they can't ask without getting the spotlight put on them and risk getting in trouble for something stupid.
The problem is that they don't see the respecting of persons and the inability to ask questions or disagree as red flags that something's not right. It's truly sad.
house, I was agreeing with Uncle Hairy (we must have common friends). I wasn't trying to give you any sort of correction at all. That's the great thing about GS, we can share and discuss and put pieces of the puzzle together.
I don't think the average innie ever even thinks about Donna, nor the nature of her living circumstances. All they know is that she is "still standing" (that virtuous, committed believer!) and that Craig (that Rat!) is not. I'm sure she has the sympathy of the average innie, much the same way that most woman whose husbands were found to have been cheathing on them have the sympathy of others. I don't think many of them know that she is still ensconced in the Corp Chalet. In fact, I don't think most of them even know what the chalet looks like, how big it is, how luxurious it is---nothing. I know that I have personally never laid eyes on the place, despite the many times I attended the Rock of Ages. It was tucked away in a well guarded part of the woods. I've only seen pictures of it and read about it here and on Waydale.
And as others have said, Innies know that it is "inappropriate" for them to ask about Craig, Donna, or the current state of their marriage. It's considered "none of their business", and they know that's exactly what they would be told, should they be so stupid as to inquire. So given this fact, Donna and Rosie know that they can do whatever they damn well please, and not a soul will question it. Absolute power is a mighty fine thing---if you happen to be the one wielding it.
Those are some excellent points, CC. I never really thought about how few people have even seen the Corps Chalet to know how large and luxurious it is. And I'm sure they think all the "nasty rumors" about Rosie and Donna are hearsay from "bitter cop-outs" and that Donna is a victim in all this.
What I don't get is why there are still any longtime staffers still at HQ, because they know what the Chalet is like and they've heard DM's accusative rants--if she still comes out of hiding to rant in the dining room like she used to.
Linda, somehow, I suspect that Donna keeps a comparatively low profile at HQ nowadays (ie., no more rants in the dining room). Maybe the staffers at HQ are aware of the nasty and persistent rumors concerning the "true nature" of Donna and Rosalie's relationship, but I can assure you that most innies on the field have never heard a single one. Heck, most of them were shocked as .... by the news about "Rev. Martindale's" extra-marital activities. Nope---as far as the average innie is concerned, those two are just "wonderful women of God" doing their best to uphold the "standard of the Word".
And even if the rumors are true, they would prefer never to hear them, because being a mushroom is comfortable and painless.
house, I was agreeing with Uncle Hairy (we must have common friends). I wasn't trying to give you any sort of correction at all. That's the great thing about GS, we can share and discuss and put pieces of the puzzle together.
That was kind, thank you. :)-->
I could have also explained myself better in that the correction was appreciated for my understanding of one of a few things that never fit together. Your first hand account confirmed and answered something for me. Again thank you!
From the sounds of things, she's dug in there pretty well. How come Rosie doesn't want the chalet? Is her pad nice? ...and just what does Donna do all day?
Let me guess...at about 8am, her housemaid has breakfast ready for her, this is followed by her morning walk through the woods. After reading the morning newspaper and catching a little of CNN, she looks over some "memos" that were faxed into her office. After her midmorning latte, she jumps into the golf cart and heads out to meet Rosie for lunch. After her poached Salmon with Bernaise sauce and a crisp garden salad, she pecks Rosie on the cheek and heads back for her afternoon nap. At about 3pm she arises from her nap and prepares for her rubdown and time in the steambath...After a romantic dinner with Rosie, she is escorted back to the chalet, where the two of them pour a little red wine and slip into something more comfortable....
Feel sorry for?...yeah, my heart bleeds purple p*ss.
Rosie makes my skin crawl but she's not stupid. She won't give her personal property over to twi. She needs to retain residency to assure no one suggest she add her home to the pot of twi gold. IMO only, and could have changed recently!
Besides, I think Craig would pop a blood vessel to think of her in his bed (chalet). LMAO
I really doubt the 3:00 nap and the rubdown. I am positive Donna pushes papers somewhere at HQ. But, she surely does it in a nice comfy environment and at hours unlike the typical TWI workerbee. Donna is well accustomed to special treatment. This woman has had her own personal assistants, housekeepers, nannies, and has never had to lift a finger to keep her own home in the same way you and I keep ours. She has never had to face reality in the same way you and I have had to. Be assured that in whatever agreement was struck when Craig changed "jobs" that the family is being supported in the manner to which they have been accustomed.
quote:Rosie makes my skin crawl but she's not stupid. She won't give her personal property over to twi. She needs to retain residency to assure no one suggest she add her home to the pot of twi gold.
This is one area were Rosalie differs from VPW. At least Dr. Wierwille and family put all his personal property in twi's name. But not Rosalie. Interesting!
UH, Rosie's pad is very, very nice. I see from some pictures that were posted on Waydale, she's added a nice, professional pool. Very nice.
Yes, believers weren't allowed to own their homes if the mortgage wasn't paid, yet Rosie has hers! Not gonna give that up to TWI. She had it custom built with her own personal money (I heard) years ago. I'm sure the mortgage is paid off by now, and it will never belong to TWI. Oh, she got to keep her cat to.
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GrouchoMarxJr
My time with Donna, was during the time period of 1978-80. At that time she was an arrogant, mean-spirited b*tch in her late twenties. She coveted after power...she explained to a bunch of us once that when she was "husband hunting", she had dated numerous top twi leaders, dropping names of 1st and 2nd corps guys. She said that when she got to craiggers, she knew he was the one, why? because she knew that he was going to "the top"...as she put it. She somehow knew that she was destined to be on the top rung of the twi ladder and she got herself there. It's almost like the story of MacBeth...ambition, power, money...she was willing to put up with lcm's adultery in order to maintain her position as "first lady of twi"...it was a simple tradeoff. Her disgust with her husband was only exceeded by her own lust for power and position. Today, she probably feels like she "earned" the right to live in the corps chalet for all the years of putting up with bozo. Of course, with her sexual orientation being in question, perhaps she is still "earning" her position as "first lady of twi"?
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Steve!
Hey, getting thrown out into the street can be very much character building - look at some of the characters we have around here!
;)-->
Since donna has very little character, perhaps a sojourn on the streets of some town besides cornfield, OH would actually do her some good.
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krys
We talk about the women who were abused in this inner circle...but what about their husbands. They suffered...and in some cases they suffered more.
You can't possibly think it made them proud that their wives were selected by the MOG or his committee for sex - or do you?
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Sunesis
Uncle Hairy, that's exactly what she told me once in a conversation. She told me (this was late '70s), that she had decided years before she would do Whatever It Takes to "get to the top." She was totally committed to being a top hot dog (as they used to say). She was very calculating, although, back when she was young, to look at her, you never would have thunk it because at one time, she was a wonderful, compassionate person who truly did have a heart for people. In fact, I think it was that quality that helped get her to the "top."
She is where she is now by deliberate, scheming, decision.
I agree, if she's not with Craig, she should be with him now. Or, divorce. Quit playing this game and living a lie. If you're going to lead God's people, be honest. The corps standards they have set for others, and so cruelly enforced, should also be applied to her. No exceptions, corps and all that stuff right?
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houseisarockin
No krysilis, it should not make a husband proud. And yes the husbands suffered as well.
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Linda Z
When I first read this thread I thought, "Why wish on DM the same grief that twi caused others to suffer? After all, perpetuating a stupid twi 'law' that devastated so many couples won't undo the harm it did to others." But the more I thought about this, the more I realized that unless she has a major change of heart and behavior, Donna does deserve to feel the sting of the consequences of her part in the twi fiasco.
Not only did she know what was going on with her husband's adultery, I'd be willing to bet she and RFR helped to make it happen. By the time LCM was made prez, Donna was already plenty cozy with RFR and they were pulling lots of strings behind the scenes. And her buddy RFR was badmouthing LCM behind his back. I heard it with my own ears.
Donna's suffered? Her kids probably have, and that's a shame, because their parents' BS was certainly none of their doing. But Donna? I don't think so.
First, I don't think she gave a rat's backside what LCM did with other women--it kept him out of her hair. And second, I'll betcha DM hasn't suffered nearly as much as the parents of a certain lovely, sweet, accomplished young woman did when DM announced to the entire twi world that their beautiful daughter's death in a horrible plane crash was their fault.
Suffered? Nah, she hasn't suffered when you compare the comfort she's living in with the horrible circumstances she helped put a lot of good people into.
Anyone worried about Donna's suffering ought to listen to that tape where she trashed A & N P about their daughter's death once or twice and remember what she became, not what she might have seemed to be 25 or 30 years ago.
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Catcup
Donna knows which side her bread is buttered on... and always has.
She knew which star to hitch her wagon to in order to get to the top. And how to behave in order to keep that position once she got there.
When I confronted her, Emogene, and Bill Winegarner in the back room of the BRC in 1983, she played innocent regarding the backdoor politicking at HQ so as not to rile any feathers. I took all three of them on at once and pinned them down each and every time they tried to tag me with a lie. Finally after Winegarner left in disgust and Emogene was excused, Donna told me she was just "so new" to her position at headquarters as the wife of the president, and it was not easy for her to "confront" such a "pillar" as the wife of a trustee. What a crop of crap. It was no problem for me to do it, regardless of consequence to myself, right in front of her, and she had been at HQ much longer than I.
Donna just can't seem to stand up for the truth when she knows it as long as her own comfort and reputation are at stake.
She couldn't do it then, she couldn't do it when her husband was exposed, and she won't do it now.
Suffer?
She has no idea what that word means. And she will do whatever it takes to make sure she never has to.
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GrouchoMarxJr
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't D.M. approach Veepee and put a bug in his ear about her marrying LCM?...and then didn't Veepee actually "suggest" to LCM to marry her? Did I dream that...or did that actually happen?
Yeah, D.M. has always been a very calculating conniver...she always covered her own a$$...but how does twi justify letting her live in the chalet? Lcm poured in millions in security and state of the art whatever...the place is huge! It's really beautiful and should be used for something more appropriate than housing the defrocked minister's ex-wife...errr, I mean "seperated". I mean...REALLY! Maybe the corps director and his staff should be in there, with some offices and a steady flow of people in and out. Don't the innies mumble under their breath about how the corps chalet is being wasted on Donna?
I think that there should be an "official" campaign, to remove D.M. from the corps chalet. Put the b*tch in one of those old trailers they keep on the back forty...that's where trailer trash belongs anyway.
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houseisarockin
Her approach to him without his already thinking it?? I think he had her pegged prior. IMO that is!
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mzimagine
Just trying to get a reaction...
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Sunesis
Yes, Donna had decided on Craig from what she told me. It took VP to open Craig's eyes and get him to consider Donna. Craig had been very much in love with someone else, which didn't work out. Craig and Donna spent a bit of time together and Craig popped the question. Donna wanted him, VP brought them together.
Yes, Donna became very hard-hearted, but she was never one to rock the boat. She'd suggest. When Donna knew things weren't right, she never had the balls to stand up to people in authority, or fight for those being abused, like Catcup and others did. She still doesn't. She'll sit there until she's booted out - which I'm sure she will be one day if she crosses Rosie.
As for her kids, hey, I moved in high school as do millions of kids. They'll survive. Probably be good from them to get out from the oppresiveness of hq and see, there's a big world out there.
Let's see, she's not a trustee, not a cabinent member, doesn't run her own department, she's just "special assistant" to Rosie - i.e., a glorified secretary - so what's she doing in the chalet? I can't believe innies don't say anything about this, even among themselves.
She needs to go. Let her be hoisted on her own pitard and have here own rules be applied to her.
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outandabout
Yeah, it sure is pretty weird that she's still there - especially in the Corps Chalet.
Do you think TWI is actually being a respector of persons? ha ha ha
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houseisarockin
Thanks, your account makes more sense than what someone wanted me to believe of that situation. I appreciate the correction.
:)-->
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Belle
The innies left don't have the guts to ask any more. They've asked millions of times about DM and they get the verbal tapshoe with no answer. They know that they can't ask without getting the spotlight put on them and risk getting in trouble for something stupid.
The problem is that they don't see the respecting of persons and the inability to ask questions or disagree as red flags that something's not right. It's truly sad.
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Sunesis
house, I was agreeing with Uncle Hairy (we must have common friends). I wasn't trying to give you any sort of correction at all. That's the great thing about GS, we can share and discuss and put pieces of the puzzle together.
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Cherished Child
I don't think the average innie ever even thinks about Donna, nor the nature of her living circumstances. All they know is that she is "still standing" (that virtuous, committed believer!) and that Craig (that Rat!) is not. I'm sure she has the sympathy of the average innie, much the same way that most woman whose husbands were found to have been cheathing on them have the sympathy of others. I don't think many of them know that she is still ensconced in the Corp Chalet. In fact, I don't think most of them even know what the chalet looks like, how big it is, how luxurious it is---nothing. I know that I have personally never laid eyes on the place, despite the many times I attended the Rock of Ages. It was tucked away in a well guarded part of the woods. I've only seen pictures of it and read about it here and on Waydale.
And as others have said, Innies know that it is "inappropriate" for them to ask about Craig, Donna, or the current state of their marriage. It's considered "none of their business", and they know that's exactly what they would be told, should they be so stupid as to inquire. So given this fact, Donna and Rosie know that they can do whatever they damn well please, and not a soul will question it. Absolute power is a mighty fine thing---if you happen to be the one wielding it.
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Linda Z
Those are some excellent points, CC. I never really thought about how few people have even seen the Corps Chalet to know how large and luxurious it is. And I'm sure they think all the "nasty rumors" about Rosie and Donna are hearsay from "bitter cop-outs" and that Donna is a victim in all this.
What I don't get is why there are still any longtime staffers still at HQ, because they know what the Chalet is like and they've heard DM's accusative rants--if she still comes out of hiding to rant in the dining room like she used to.
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Cherished Child
Linda, somehow, I suspect that Donna keeps a comparatively low profile at HQ nowadays (ie., no more rants in the dining room). Maybe the staffers at HQ are aware of the nasty and persistent rumors concerning the "true nature" of Donna and Rosalie's relationship, but I can assure you that most innies on the field have never heard a single one. Heck, most of them were shocked as .... by the news about "Rev. Martindale's" extra-marital activities. Nope---as far as the average innie is concerned, those two are just "wonderful women of God" doing their best to uphold the "standard of the Word".
And even if the rumors are true, they would prefer never to hear them, because being a mushroom is comfortable and painless.
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houseisarockin
That was kind, thank you.
:)-->
I could have also explained myself better in that the correction was appreciated for my understanding of one of a few things that never fit together. Your first hand account confirmed and answered something for me. Again thank you!
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GrouchoMarxJr
From the sounds of things, she's dug in there pretty well. How come Rosie doesn't want the chalet? Is her pad nice? ...and just what does Donna do all day?
Let me guess...at about 8am, her housemaid has breakfast ready for her, this is followed by her morning walk through the woods. After reading the morning newspaper and catching a little of CNN, she looks over some "memos" that were faxed into her office. After her midmorning latte, she jumps into the golf cart and heads out to meet Rosie for lunch. After her poached Salmon with Bernaise sauce and a crisp garden salad, she pecks Rosie on the cheek and heads back for her afternoon nap. At about 3pm she arises from her nap and prepares for her rubdown and time in the steambath...After a romantic dinner with Rosie, she is escorted back to the chalet, where the two of them pour a little red wine and slip into something more comfortable....
Feel sorry for?...yeah, my heart bleeds purple p*ss.
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houseisarockin
Rosie makes my skin crawl but she's not stupid. She won't give her personal property over to twi. She needs to retain residency to assure no one suggest she add her home to the pot of twi gold. IMO only, and could have changed recently!
Besides, I think Craig would pop a blood vessel to think of her in his bed (chalet). LMAO
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Catcup
I really doubt the 3:00 nap and the rubdown. I am positive Donna pushes papers somewhere at HQ. But, she surely does it in a nice comfy environment and at hours unlike the typical TWI workerbee. Donna is well accustomed to special treatment. This woman has had her own personal assistants, housekeepers, nannies, and has never had to lift a finger to keep her own home in the same way you and I keep ours. She has never had to face reality in the same way you and I have had to. Be assured that in whatever agreement was struck when Craig changed "jobs" that the family is being supported in the manner to which they have been accustomed.
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oldiesman
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Sunesis
UH, Rosie's pad is very, very nice. I see from some pictures that were posted on Waydale, she's added a nice, professional pool. Very nice.
Yes, believers weren't allowed to own their homes if the mortgage wasn't paid, yet Rosie has hers! Not gonna give that up to TWI. She had it custom built with her own personal money (I heard) years ago. I'm sure the mortgage is paid off by now, and it will never belong to TWI. Oh, she got to keep her cat to.
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