As someone who was NOT WC but was tossed out of HQ on their ear because their husband was suspected of being homo, I HAVE A REAL ISSUE WITH DONNA & HER FAMILY GETTING THE TREATMENT THEY'RE GETTING!
Wake up lurkers!
These people are having their lovely, lush home cleaned, their meals cooked, their children watched, their cars repaired & paid for, their DESIGNER clothing bought, their entertainment expenses (and anyone who's been on staff will tell you that going to the latest movies are favs), their kids music lessons/soccar games/ballet lessons - you name it -- ALL PAID FOR BY YOUR ABS! THEY COST THE MINISTRY THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS EACH MONTH! DON'T KID YOURSELF!
THEY DID VERY LITTLE TO HELP US! We were given a couple hundred $$ to relocate and that was it. When we got to our destination (after buying bus tickets out of that money), we were told we had to stay in a hotel until we found housing. WE WERE ALLOWED NO CONTACT WITH THE LOCAL BELIEVERS OR LEADERSHIP! NONE!
In my case, my husband was M&A'ed and I was told that if I stayed with him I would be M&A'ed too.They gave me an ultimatum - I chose to stay with TWI.
My then-husband was considered a cop out - What's the difference with Craig's status?
I don't buy the "it's because of the kids" thing anymore. Sorry. MANY wafer kids suffered because of their parents being with TWI and stigmas they got in school or the community with it.
It burns my *** that many people were treated by the LCM administration in a way that THEY WON'T TREAT THEIR OWN.
Yeah, right - I'm sure Donna is Rosie-lie's "personal assistant". I bet my first born she isn't doing her ironing or cooking her meals. HA! What a crock!
Also, I seriously doubt they're using LCM's teachings out of respect for Donna. No ****king way. They're doing it because they haven't had an origional idea since the earth cooled. They'd $hit themselves if they did because God hasn't talked to those carnal minded, anal-retentive carpet eaters in so long they wouldn't recognize His voice even if He did!
The street would be too good for them - there's a pig farm just up the street from HQ....
Even if they did want to do a new class, who would do it? It's always the MOG speaking (or screaming) from the throne. Rosie would be the most boring torture any new student could face. "Well, hi y'all and welcome to this class on Power for, oops the Way of, I mean our new class..." Total time to say that? 10 minutes at least. At least Craig was entertaining if you had no feelings for the poor, horrified souls watching him rant for the first time.
I do wonder if LCM is still running things to a certain extent.
Some may remember the tape they played when he confessed to his adultery. He said he would still remain involved in the day to day but Rosie would be the new Pres. and that position was being re-defined. A thoughtful gal at our meeting asked if this was not just a way of changing titles for political and legal reasons. They said it wasn't, but as LCM said that no man could take away the calling of God. (or something like that)
Remember, that He was not demoted untill things were going public. His acitons were known years before and all he got was a slap on the wrist from the cabinet "leaders". Then it wasn't until droves of people were leaving the ministry that his new title (head of research) and his corps status and his cushy chalet were stripped form him.
I know in my area people were ready to forgive and forget and I don't doubt that many at HQ were ready to do the same. He was worshiped as the MOG. Perhaps as much or more than people worshiped VPW.
So, I wouldn't doubt that he still has his hand in the fix somewhere.
Alright now, this is more like it! This thread reminds me of what GS and WD before it were designed to be for. Thanks for bringing it back, especially Chas's comment to the lurkers to wipe the eye buggers out and stand up and look around.
TWI claim of no respector of persons is of course bull feces. It is who you are and it's also who you know.
Of COURSE Craig has input into twi, even if it's just suggestive, when he visits his wife and kids and then Donna says to Rosie 'oh, Craig mentioned something and it's a good idea'.
For my experiences, I tried three times to get the flock outa there, but my husband was not at risk for being told he had to go with me, any of those times. He was well cared for while I wandered in the wilderness of doubt and pain. Whereas other couples, it was as many other stories; one left they both had to go.
I believe this was so for us because two of my inlaws lived with Wierwilles. A part of me always wished they'd kick us out, or at least someone would grow the testicles to tell the truth and dig out the suitcases. It never happened, of course and they still are inslaved within and licking the pig shi+ off the boots of the liars.
When things happen that muck up the workings,when they get caught, they just get better at hiding it. Donna and Rosie are not going to be so obviouse anymore.
Yes, of course she should be thrown out, as should many many others. It 'aint gonna happen until people start yelling and don't shut up.
If you look at it lately, people seem to have gone back to sleeping peacefully again. The smoke got so thick for awhile that noone could see the screens. By the time it cleared, it was old news and whew, they could relax again.
"Glad that's over!!"
The whole thing is crap, we know it, they know it. The embarassing part is when it blows again and more lives are shredded. And it will.
I have often wondered if it has been in the TWI *Charter* that 2 members had the power to vote 1 member off the BOT/BOD? The real Uncle Harry stated that when they disagreed and *brother* said this is the will of the lord (or something like that) that was it and they quit arguing and did the will of the lord. The BOT/BOD could kick things around but VPW made all the decisions.
LCM’s stepping down was damage control at its best. But it didn’t stop the flood of followers leaving TWI as they anticipated, rather seemed to fuel the fire of freedom burning. So, in an effort to save the sinking ship perhaps LCM worked out an exit strategy, or was presented with one as he wasn’t legally on paper as the president any more.
The removal *treaty* might have contained provisions for his wife and kids. Craig, you leave quietly and keep your mouth shut and we will allow Donna and your children to remain in the Chalet and on salary. This may have also included a nice little monthly payment for his pocket also. Included in this severance package may well have been continuing to display and sell his books, a way to keep credibility with his children. A top secret martyr scenario might be what the young ones believe. Not that he was outed because of his sins, but he left to keep God’s only ministry alive!
Maybe LCM now has to worry about the BOT/BOD sticking to their agreement with him better than they have carried out their pledge in public to take care of Mrs.W. for the rest of her life!
Makes sense to me Grizz...those bastards were always looking out for number one and covering their a$$es.
"...carnal minded, anal retentive, carpet eaters..." C'mon Chas, don't be so shy, tell us how you really feel.
OK, let's spell this out...no hedging, no beatin' around the bush...no mincing of the words... That damn corps chalet was built with MY money!...I don't like her living there...I got nothing against her kids, but they gotta move too...the whole bunch of em...out on the damn street!...or better yet, like Chas said, there's a pig farm down the road. I'd love too see Donna M crawling through the pig ...., face first, snortin' as she tried to get the half rotted apple before the pig did...SoooooWeeeeee!
Let me draw some non-parallels for you about what happened to me and a few other couples I know of that were booted from staff or WC (for clarification - we were NOT WC) AND what did or did not happen with LCM's fall from grace...
Let me clarify something else - I don't blame TWI for what happened with my first marriage. I chose to stay, leave, fight, give in, whatever - I'm a big girl and take ownership of it.
1. After my husband had been confronted by his leadership about some problems he had and then by his leadship with their assistant, WE were brought before the head of the cabinate (Rev. BT) for "third level confrontation".
As for LCM, I've read MANY accounts of how he was confrontated for his actions but didn't change - it seems he only got worse, as the Allen's lawsuit surfaced.
Sidebar: Does anyone know or have a educated guess on how many YEARS went by from when LCM was first confronted for his "affairs" and when he finally got the boot from HQ? (I would guess this would be decades...)
2. We were confronted by BT about some of the most deepest details of our lives you could possibly imagine. I remember not hardly speaking through the whole thing because I was so shocked and embarassed. First of all, I didn't know my husband had been confronted about the things WE were brought in front of leadship for - he didn't tell me about the other times - he'd only said he'd had bad days or seemed bummed out about things. I thought he was just having trouble getting used to being at HQ. (We'd only been there about 5 weeks when this all came down.)
I seriously doubt the deepest intimate secrets of the M'dale's marriage were examined sooooo closely. It's well known (via Waydale and now GPC) that LCM liked threesomes - Why wasn't he confronted about the HOMO aspect of THAT?!?
3. After being humilitated, stripped emotionally bare (at least, that's how I felt), we were told we had to take whatever money we had plus a few hundred extra dollars given to us (I think we had about $800-900) and we were to return to the state we came from "for help". ALL THIS CAME DOWN THE SAME DAY WE WERE CONFRONTED. I begged to stay - I begged for another chance. Nope and nope.
Again, how long - even after the Allen's lawsiut broke - did LCM remain not only at HQ, but as the Pres.? It was weeks, if not months!
4. From the money we had, we had to buy bus tickets to get back to TN from OH - it wasn't cheep. I didn't want to go and didn't want to be associated with my husband at that point. I felt he was a stranger now - I didn't know him anymore. But, my only other choice was to separate from him all together and try to get back to ME (where I'm from) on $400-450 and start over. I chose to stick with him for purely financial reasons at that point.
Do you think Donna or LCM ever had to make a decision like that because they didn't have enough funds? Hell, LCM owned suits that cost over $1K each! AND HE HAD SEVERAL OF THEM!
Although I don't know how LCM was run out of HQ, but I bet it wasn't on a smelly Greyhound Bus!
5. When we got back to our home state, just a little over 12 hours from when we were first sitting in BT's office, we were "greeted" by the local branch coordinator. He informed us he'd booked us a hotel room for the night - at our expense. We were to have NO CONTACT with any of the local believers. We were told not to contact him unless we had a serious emergency.
Furthermore, we were instructed we were to get housing and jobs within a week or we were both going to be marked and avoided.
LCM was set up to live with a family when he left. He wasn't left flapping in the wind like we were. I'm sure he had contact and connections with the household when he first went out into the "wild". I'm quite sure he wasn't given just a week to find a job - any job.
6. Hubby was M&A'ed one week after we arrived in TN because he did not have a job (we had an apt and I had a job by then). There was no messing around by leadership.
Was LCM ever M&A'ed? I think he might have been on "probation" at best... Someone here might know for sure.
This is what burns my sweet Yankee fanny about him getting the treatment he got - there was no swift justice in how the BOT dealt with him at all. They took their sweet time and probably he wasn't disposed of until either their insurance threatened not to insure them anymore because of him or the lawyers said it would look better in court if he wasn't on the dole.
The sad thing is that po' ba$tard (LCM) probably costs them LESS money living off grounds while his family is all snug in a spacious home than he would had he remained on grounds and ANOTHER lawsuit happened...
7. I found out, just a few months ago, as a matter of fact, that our situation was the discussion of a noon time meal at HQ. Oh, yeah.... I was embarassed all over again because we had a lot of friends there at HQ. We weren't the next Donna & LCM - but we were well known and had been asked more than once to come in the WC.
Do you think LCM & Donna's details were discussed at a noon time meeting? Don't bet the farm or even a cow patty on it!
So, what's good for everyone else who gets to fall from grace with TWI isn't good enough for the leader. If there wasn't proof in the puddin' of "do as I say - not as I do" with TWI, this would be it.
After all this...
After all the innies who lurked on Waydale and Greasespot Cafe before, during, and after the lawsuit broke...
After all the people - real people - Joe & Jane Believer - not big shots - who have told their stories and the pure crap they dealt with...
After all this, I still can't believe that there hasn't been a bigger fall out from the ministry than there has been.
It's either apathy or ignorance holding them back.
You asked how things were post our split from each other and TWI --
Last I heard, my ex was trying to get married and was still trying to get back into TWI. Interestingly enough, he had gotten some woman in the ministry who was taking the class. Even though he had witnessed to her and was engaged to her, she was not allowed to fellowship with him because he was M&A'ed - twisted... soooo twisted.... He'd had mental problems which had resulted in hospitalizations for him. Amazingly enough, he was still loyal to TWI. I honestly hope he's found peace and happiness. I sincerely mean it.
As for me, well... most of you know that I met my hubby via Waydale in January of 2000. We married in August. We bought a house in June 2001 and our son was born a few days later. We're now expecting our second child Feb. 2005. Overall, life has been good and I am happy.
I'm glad I got out of TWI when I was able to makea fresh start - I was/am young enough. I know many who weren't so lucky.
quote: Again, how long - even after the Allen's lawsiut broke - did LCM remain not only at HQ, but as the Pres.? It was weeks, if not months!
It was more like a year before the lawsuit came out after the Allens were booted from HQ. The only reason we found out about it back then was because the local newspapers around HQ were releasing stories about the lawsuit.
I remember RFR telling us that the newspapers were revealing things about her, and she was up front and central at lunch time to protect her sorry arse. She told the staff that their accusations were lies. I think the "accusations" were about the time frame in which she learned in martinpuke's indescretions. Guess that's why she's known now as Rosa-lie.
As far as lunchtime sharings about martinpuke and his crap, nothing was shared to mark him or make him look like the $hit he is. I heard Harve Platig share at a staff meeting after martinpuke left. He said they didn't condone adultery. Of course he would say that publicly. They wanted us to believe that they were just as shocked as we were. They should have known it would only be a matter of time before they got caught with their pants down.
Thank God that Paul and Fern Allen had the guts and fortitude to expose that treacherous hell hole who calls themselves the beloved of God. We'll see what God thinks of those jack@$$es.
I believe that it was about 1987 when LCM was confronted by a number of leaders concerning his adultery. R.D. was one of them and has stated so publicly. It was lcm's adultry (and others)...that triggered the Shoenheit paper, which in turn, triggered many leaders being fired and quitting. People left in droves and it was all triggered by the adultery that was going on.
Chas...of course, they had their double standards. Afterall, they were the "special ones" in whom God spoke to and revealed great truth to them...dontcha know? All I did was stand up at a meeting and say that I disagreed with something that Martindale was teaching. The next frickin' day, I mean, the NEXT frickin' day...I was Marked and Avoided! People that I had known for years were told that I was possessed and to stay away from me. Of course at the time that I stood up at the meeting, I had already decided to quit...I had Marked and Avoided them first.
What sounded like a nobel sentiment, "When it comes to the word, we have no friends"...turned out to be an excuse to hurt people. If you didn't jump through their hoops and kiss their wide arses, you were treated with disrespect, disregard and contempt. They trashed the lives of thousands of people...just because they could. Decades of faithful service was rewarded with a boot in the a$$ and a middle finger sticking in their face. Twi gained it's considerable assets because of the thousands of people that they welcomed in, with open arms...When those same people were betrayed and disposed of, the assets remained with the lowlifes.
Today, the people in my life are genuine. My friends are REAL friends and I when it comes to my beliefs, I answer to no man. There is a lesson to be learned from our experiences with twi. The phoniness of their affection, care, and concern...only serves to underscore and illuminate the true value of those things when they are genuine. Twi helped me to develope a good bull.... meter...today, I can see these grifters coming a mile away.
Good for you Uncle Hairy, having the guts to stand up for what was right.
How awfull that they trashed you and the others who did so....sheeshe, Hairy, they HAD to do that to anyone that had a decency or integrety....you folks were what was interfering with them being able to operate without impunity...being marked and avoided by a bunch that have proven to be so evil, is kind of a badge of honor.
It just kills me that the resources that we slaved to provide, both with our physical efforts as well as our monetary support...all the sacrifices made.......the people that we brought in to do the same....is all there now being enjoyed by the ones who treated everyone so horribly....
There was a poster on wd once claiming that he was ha...he said they laughed their asses off all the way to the bank.
As far as Donna M, when my husband wouldn`t accept an assignment .... even though I disagreed ...even though I was still as committed as ever....even though I was the same person that the believers had known and loved (some for over a decade) I was considered scum, and not allowed to do more than sit in a fellowship....wasn`t allowed to participate to hang out to got out for coffee....ALL BECAUSE OF MY HUSBANDS ACTIONS!!!!
Talk about double standards....I sure don`t know how you folks in twi can justify it....
I agree....now that I enjoy genuine friendship and concern....I know and deeply apreciate the differance....
You are wrong, in my opinion. They SHOULD experience some of the grief that they caused. They SHOULD be made to feel the pain, the anguish, that they inflicted on others. Just so that they can grow as humans, and can understand, if not empathize, with those whose lives they racked and ruined.
In '98 when my son was kicked out with his wife...she was castigated for talking about her liasons with lcm. My son stood up in lcm's office and ripped him a new one.
After that....they offerred him a nice neat position at HQ during interum year - a change in assignment just a few weeks before the fact - because they were grooming them for something much bigger and both kids knew it. The only condition was that my son would have to put up with the adultery and preferably become a part of it, that was part of the deal.
There was another couple involved. The husband was at the Advanced Class helping and the wife was back in Gunnison with the children. They sent this gent back to Gunnison by local Grayhound Bus!
Meanwhile they got to his wife and told her whatever would twist her head around so that she and the children would stay in. They removed him...and kept her and gave her all kinds of preferential treatment.
During those times...the terms "unequally yoked together" were catchphrases and people were frequently encouraged to divorce their "unbelieving" spouse and stay with the Household. To the best of my knowledge she never heard the truth about the situation.
.
.
.
.
Once again...what's Godly here? The household is elevated about the commands of God. A few individuals act as if they are God Almighty making decisions for people without anybody's knowledge or consent.
Keeping their inner circle intact is the name of the game. Whether it's expensive suits, adultery, special favors....for the inner circle. Whatever suited them somehow became "The Word of the Lord" via the mouth of the MOG.
.
.
.
.
I remember sitting in the Anniversary hookup - whatever year that was - when it was announced that the Word was over the World....and as I heard the new stuff coming down and I just knew it was all bad. Even though I didn't know about the adultry stuff at the time.
This is the kind of actual, true and factual account that the innies and outies both need to hear. Your honest recounting of the facts are absolutely nauseating (or should be) to ANY AND ALL that have ever spent ONE SECOND praying for lcm and the board of trustees at the break of day, and at fellowships across the world.
This was a family tragedy for your family and your grandkids...while this sick and devilish activities were going on, people all over the "Way Tree" were being M&A for messy houses, rowdy teens or not absing enough.
Radar - there is so much more lurking just beneath the surface that I justa dont have the courage to tell at the moment.
How about the alcoholic in my twig who was raked over the coals when he fell off the wagon soon into AA. Is there any kind of addict - addicted to any substance to pulls it off - getting clean - the first time with no slips? Was there any lovingkindness to help him get back on track? He was just a simple believer....and he was ground into dust. He would have been better off if he hadn't even tried.
But there was in the same state a bigwig who was also an alcoholic who had folks running interference for him and covering all his "mistakes" caused by his drunkenness....and he was still around until he was re-located shortly before I left.
What happened to you is more than a tragedy, and more common than TWI would have anyone believe.
TWI would also like for people to believe that LCM had a "one-time consensual affair" and now that he is "gone" the harshness and cruelty openly displayed in the ministry has left as well.
However, TWI has done what it has always ever done: Alter outward appearances whenever the money storms out the door in order to stop the financial hemmorhage.
Nothing, NOTHING will ever change at that evil empire. Especially as long as the women who covered Craig's illicit behaviors are still calling the shots.
And they are.
The Martindales are continuing to enjoy the fruits of the rearranged power structure at HQ and Rosie Lie has a cushy job beyond her wildest dreams.
Donna out on the street? Not on your life. If Donna went, Rosie would go, too.
Suffered where? Innies still think it was a one time affair and that LCM *missed* the mark and was put on spiritual probation and given every chance to get right. Donna has been shielded and protected, heck posters have reported Donna hanging at a resort type island driving around in a golf cart.
How about asking people like Chas, or how about couples with children run off with no contact with friends, as all their friends were *innies* and they had cut off their families for the *ministry* that they sold everything to serve; only to be booted with not much more than the clothes on their backs.
Professionals, giving up solid jobs with retirement scraping to rent a dump and picking furniture off the curbs and working *day* jobs so they could have money for supper. People scraping to survive while having their own children M&A them!
Suffered????? What a joke! Had she once stepped forward and actually stood up for God and all the women that had been abused and still being abused and blew the whistle on her husband or the MOG before, she would be worthy of consideration for some sympathy.
But, there are still some of *Craig’s* girls working on staff and Rosie and Donna know it! With all of her husband’s *house-cleaning* before why haven’t they bothered to clean-up HQ by removing women that helped LCM get his victims??
(HINT: ;)--> Rosie and Donna would be on the top of that list)
Amen brother, I have considered that more than many times. She knew, she knew, she knew~!
As a woman, it's hard for me to find a place to put this; she knew other women were being abused, used, threatened, terrorized.
She did nothing.
TWI taught us that what we allow, we teach is ok.
I have to wonder about Donna now that her 2 daughters are grown up and a teenager, respectively. Will she hide it when one of the alleged rapists of twi go after one of them?
And Donna isn’t part of the *Stand By Your Man* generation!
There would be only honor and respect if she had, not the disgrace women of previous generations were subject to.
She could have been the woman that broke the cycle of abuse, but she is propitiating the cycle that may well affect her own. Her own are not an excuse, protecting them from the facts does them no favors! Some day some how each will have to deal with their father’s sins.
She has been able to maintain her life style and even some what of a *stage* image!
Like she had more to keep than what she could *gain* by truly taking a *STAND* for God!
martyr - someone who suffers or dies for their beliefs, or for a particular cause, etc.
QUICK - Name one belief or cause, other than her own, have you seen Donna Martindale stand up or suffer for?
Suffered enough?
Puleeeezzzeeeee!
She vacationed at exotic locations (there's pictures here on GSC to prove it!) while the staff is told there will be no bonus that year or vacations more than 100 miles from HQ because they needed to keep "the wagons rounded".
She's never had to use a credit card for survival because she only had $60 cash and had to figure out how to get from TN to ME the cheepest.
She's never been abandoned by the "household" because of something her spouse did - even if she'd been sent with him by order of leadership!
She didn't have a ding on her credit report because her husband, who was M&A'ed, broke the lease on the apt they were told to get by leadership within a week or get M&A'ed.
Has she ever been threatened with being M&A'ed?
She's never been at odds for somewhere to live, wondered if she's going to have enough food to make it through the week or get her car repaired. She's been a kept woman for years!
Suffered?
I should say not.
If she "suffered" then why didn't she expose that louse of a husband of hers for what he was? Why didn't she get a lawyer or go to the BOT or whatever any point fingers (it was no secret about his antics! She's have had no trouble having them believe her!)??? She's not a "weak woman"...
Furthermore, she's made many, many people suffer!
What about the comments she made about the believer who died in a plane crash? Didn't she basically say it was because of his believing? There's audio clips of her rants from lunchtime on GSC to prove it. What about the pain she's caused people's families when they needed comfort?
In many ways she was no better than LCM. She was certainly no martyr - give me a break!
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ChasUFarley
As someone who was NOT WC but was tossed out of HQ on their ear because their husband was suspected of being homo, I HAVE A REAL ISSUE WITH DONNA & HER FAMILY GETTING THE TREATMENT THEY'RE GETTING!
Wake up lurkers!
These people are having their lovely, lush home cleaned, their meals cooked, their children watched, their cars repaired & paid for, their DESIGNER clothing bought, their entertainment expenses (and anyone who's been on staff will tell you that going to the latest movies are favs), their kids music lessons/soccar games/ballet lessons - you name it -- ALL PAID FOR BY YOUR ABS! THEY COST THE MINISTRY THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS EACH MONTH! DON'T KID YOURSELF!
THEY DID VERY LITTLE TO HELP US! We were given a couple hundred $$ to relocate and that was it. When we got to our destination (after buying bus tickets out of that money), we were told we had to stay in a hotel until we found housing. WE WERE ALLOWED NO CONTACT WITH THE LOCAL BELIEVERS OR LEADERSHIP! NONE!
In my case, my husband was M&A'ed and I was told that if I stayed with him I would be M&A'ed too.They gave me an ultimatum - I chose to stay with TWI.
My then-husband was considered a cop out - What's the difference with Craig's status?
I don't buy the "it's because of the kids" thing anymore. Sorry. MANY wafer kids suffered because of their parents being with TWI and stigmas they got in school or the community with it.
It burns my *** that many people were treated by the LCM administration in a way that THEY WON'T TREAT THEIR OWN.
Yeah, right - I'm sure Donna is Rosie-lie's "personal assistant". I bet my first born she isn't doing her ironing or cooking her meals. HA! What a crock!
Also, I seriously doubt they're using LCM's teachings out of respect for Donna. No ****king way. They're doing it because they haven't had an origional idea since the earth cooled. They'd $hit themselves if they did because God hasn't talked to those carnal minded, anal-retentive carpet eaters in so long they wouldn't recognize His voice even if He did!
The street would be too good for them - there's a pig farm just up the street from HQ....
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JustThinking
Even if they did want to do a new class, who would do it? It's always the MOG speaking (or screaming) from the throne. Rosie would be the most boring torture any new student could face. "Well, hi y'all and welcome to this class on Power for, oops the Way of, I mean our new class..." Total time to say that? 10 minutes at least. At least Craig was entertaining if you had no feelings for the poor, horrified souls watching him rant for the first time.
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Oakspear
Is Wierwille Road technically a street?
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lindyhopper
Right on, Chas.
I do wonder if LCM is still running things to a certain extent.
Some may remember the tape they played when he confessed to his adultery. He said he would still remain involved in the day to day but Rosie would be the new Pres. and that position was being re-defined. A thoughtful gal at our meeting asked if this was not just a way of changing titles for political and legal reasons. They said it wasn't, but as LCM said that no man could take away the calling of God. (or something like that)
Remember, that He was not demoted untill things were going public. His acitons were known years before and all he got was a slap on the wrist from the cabinet "leaders". Then it wasn't until droves of people were leaving the ministry that his new title (head of research) and his corps status and his cushy chalet were stripped form him.
I know in my area people were ready to forgive and forget and I don't doubt that many at HQ were ready to do the same. He was worshiped as the MOG. Perhaps as much or more than people worshiped VPW.
So, I wouldn't doubt that he still has his hand in the fix somewhere.
IMO of course.
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excathedra
chas, i really enjoyed your post
--
that sucks what happened to you and your ex
i hope he's doing good now and that you are too
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Shellon
Alright now, this is more like it! This thread reminds me of what GS and WD before it were designed to be for. Thanks for bringing it back, especially Chas's comment to the lurkers to wipe the eye buggers out and stand up and look around.
TWI claim of no respector of persons is of course bull feces. It is who you are and it's also who you know.
Of COURSE Craig has input into twi, even if it's just suggestive, when he visits his wife and kids and then Donna says to Rosie 'oh, Craig mentioned something and it's a good idea'.
For my experiences, I tried three times to get the flock outa there, but my husband was not at risk for being told he had to go with me, any of those times. He was well cared for while I wandered in the wilderness of doubt and pain. Whereas other couples, it was as many other stories; one left they both had to go.
I believe this was so for us because two of my inlaws lived with Wierwilles. A part of me always wished they'd kick us out, or at least someone would grow the testicles to tell the truth and dig out the suitcases. It never happened, of course and they still are inslaved within and licking the pig shi+ off the boots of the liars.
When things happen that muck up the workings,when they get caught, they just get better at hiding it. Donna and Rosie are not going to be so obviouse anymore.
Yes, of course she should be thrown out, as should many many others. It 'aint gonna happen until people start yelling and don't shut up.
If you look at it lately, people seem to have gone back to sleeping peacefully again. The smoke got so thick for awhile that noone could see the screens. By the time it cleared, it was old news and whew, they could relax again.
"Glad that's over!!"
The whole thing is crap, we know it, they know it. The embarassing part is when it blows again and more lives are shredded. And it will.
That is what we are here for right?
Right?
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Grizzy
I have often wondered if it has been in the TWI *Charter* that 2 members had the power to vote 1 member off the BOT/BOD? The real Uncle Harry stated that when they disagreed and *brother* said this is the will of the lord (or something like that) that was it and they quit arguing and did the will of the lord. The BOT/BOD could kick things around but VPW made all the decisions.
LCM’s stepping down was damage control at its best. But it didn’t stop the flood of followers leaving TWI as they anticipated, rather seemed to fuel the fire of freedom burning. So, in an effort to save the sinking ship perhaps LCM worked out an exit strategy, or was presented with one as he wasn’t legally on paper as the president any more.
The removal *treaty* might have contained provisions for his wife and kids. Craig, you leave quietly and keep your mouth shut and we will allow Donna and your children to remain in the Chalet and on salary. This may have also included a nice little monthly payment for his pocket also. Included in this severance package may well have been continuing to display and sell his books, a way to keep credibility with his children. A top secret martyr scenario might be what the young ones believe. Not that he was outed because of his sins, but he left to keep God’s only ministry alive!
Maybe LCM now has to worry about the BOT/BOD sticking to their agreement with him better than they have carried out their pledge in public to take care of Mrs.W. for the rest of her life!
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GrouchoMarxJr
Makes sense to me Grizz...those bastards were always looking out for number one and covering their a$$es.
"...carnal minded, anal retentive, carpet eaters..." C'mon Chas, don't be so shy, tell us how you really feel.
OK, let's spell this out...no hedging, no beatin' around the bush...no mincing of the words... That damn corps chalet was built with MY money!...I don't like her living there...I got nothing against her kids, but they gotta move too...the whole bunch of em...out on the damn street!...or better yet, like Chas said, there's a pig farm down the road. I'd love too see Donna M crawling through the pig ...., face first, snortin' as she tried to get the half rotted apple before the pig did...SoooooWeeeeee!
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ChasUFarley
Let me draw some non-parallels for you about what happened to me and a few other couples I know of that were booted from staff or WC (for clarification - we were NOT WC) AND what did or did not happen with LCM's fall from grace...
Let me clarify something else - I don't blame TWI for what happened with my first marriage. I chose to stay, leave, fight, give in, whatever - I'm a big girl and take ownership of it.
1. After my husband had been confronted by his leadership about some problems he had and then by his leadship with their assistant, WE were brought before the head of the cabinate (Rev. BT) for "third level confrontation".
As for LCM, I've read MANY accounts of how he was confrontated for his actions but didn't change - it seems he only got worse, as the Allen's lawsuit surfaced.
Sidebar: Does anyone know or have a educated guess on how many YEARS went by from when LCM was first confronted for his "affairs" and when he finally got the boot from HQ? (I would guess this would be decades...)
2. We were confronted by BT about some of the most deepest details of our lives you could possibly imagine. I remember not hardly speaking through the whole thing because I was so shocked and embarassed. First of all, I didn't know my husband had been confronted about the things WE were brought in front of leadship for - he didn't tell me about the other times - he'd only said he'd had bad days or seemed bummed out about things. I thought he was just having trouble getting used to being at HQ. (We'd only been there about 5 weeks when this all came down.)
I seriously doubt the deepest intimate secrets of the M'dale's marriage were examined sooooo closely. It's well known (via Waydale and now GPC) that LCM liked threesomes - Why wasn't he confronted about the HOMO aspect of THAT?!?
3. After being humilitated, stripped emotionally bare (at least, that's how I felt), we were told we had to take whatever money we had plus a few hundred extra dollars given to us (I think we had about $800-900) and we were to return to the state we came from "for help". ALL THIS CAME DOWN THE SAME DAY WE WERE CONFRONTED. I begged to stay - I begged for another chance. Nope and nope.
Again, how long - even after the Allen's lawsiut broke - did LCM remain not only at HQ, but as the Pres.? It was weeks, if not months!
4. From the money we had, we had to buy bus tickets to get back to TN from OH - it wasn't cheep. I didn't want to go and didn't want to be associated with my husband at that point. I felt he was a stranger now - I didn't know him anymore. But, my only other choice was to separate from him all together and try to get back to ME (where I'm from) on $400-450 and start over. I chose to stick with him for purely financial reasons at that point.
Do you think Donna or LCM ever had to make a decision like that because they didn't have enough funds? Hell, LCM owned suits that cost over $1K each! AND HE HAD SEVERAL OF THEM!
Although I don't know how LCM was run out of HQ, but I bet it wasn't on a smelly Greyhound Bus!
5. When we got back to our home state, just a little over 12 hours from when we were first sitting in BT's office, we were "greeted" by the local branch coordinator. He informed us he'd booked us a hotel room for the night - at our expense. We were to have NO CONTACT with any of the local believers. We were told not to contact him unless we had a serious emergency.
Furthermore, we were instructed we were to get housing and jobs within a week or we were both going to be marked and avoided.
LCM was set up to live with a family when he left. He wasn't left flapping in the wind like we were. I'm sure he had contact and connections with the household when he first went out into the "wild". I'm quite sure he wasn't given just a week to find a job - any job.
6. Hubby was M&A'ed one week after we arrived in TN because he did not have a job (we had an apt and I had a job by then). There was no messing around by leadership.
Was LCM ever M&A'ed? I think he might have been on "probation" at best... Someone here might know for sure.
This is what burns my sweet Yankee fanny about him getting the treatment he got - there was no swift justice in how the BOT dealt with him at all. They took their sweet time and probably he wasn't disposed of until either their insurance threatened not to insure them anymore because of him or the lawyers said it would look better in court if he wasn't on the dole.
The sad thing is that po' ba$tard (LCM) probably costs them LESS money living off grounds while his family is all snug in a spacious home than he would had he remained on grounds and ANOTHER lawsuit happened...
7. I found out, just a few months ago, as a matter of fact, that our situation was the discussion of a noon time meal at HQ. Oh, yeah.... I was embarassed all over again because we had a lot of friends there at HQ. We weren't the next Donna & LCM - but we were well known and had been asked more than once to come in the WC.
Do you think LCM & Donna's details were discussed at a noon time meeting? Don't bet the farm or even a cow patty on it!
So, what's good for everyone else who gets to fall from grace with TWI isn't good enough for the leader. If there wasn't proof in the puddin' of "do as I say - not as I do" with TWI, this would be it.
After all this...
After all the innies who lurked on Waydale and Greasespot Cafe before, during, and after the lawsuit broke...
After all the people - real people - Joe & Jane Believer - not big shots - who have told their stories and the pure crap they dealt with...
After all this, I still can't believe that there hasn't been a bigger fall out from the ministry than there has been.
It's either apathy or ignorance holding them back.
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ChasUFarley
Exie -
You asked how things were post our split from each other and TWI --
Last I heard, my ex was trying to get married and was still trying to get back into TWI. Interestingly enough, he had gotten some woman in the ministry who was taking the class. Even though he had witnessed to her and was engaged to her, she was not allowed to fellowship with him because he was M&A'ed - twisted... soooo twisted.... He'd had mental problems which had resulted in hospitalizations for him. Amazingly enough, he was still loyal to TWI. I honestly hope he's found peace and happiness. I sincerely mean it.
As for me, well... most of you know that I met my hubby via Waydale in January of 2000. We married in August. We bought a house in June 2001 and our son was born a few days later. We're now expecting our second child Feb. 2005. Overall, life has been good and I am happy.
I'm glad I got out of TWI when I was able to makea fresh start - I was/am young enough. I know many who weren't so lucky.
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Nottawayfer
It was more like a year before the lawsuit came out after the Allens were booted from HQ. The only reason we found out about it back then was because the local newspapers around HQ were releasing stories about the lawsuit.
I remember RFR telling us that the newspapers were revealing things about her, and she was up front and central at lunch time to protect her sorry arse. She told the staff that their accusations were lies. I think the "accusations" were about the time frame in which she learned in martinpuke's indescretions. Guess that's why she's known now as Rosa-lie.
As far as lunchtime sharings about martinpuke and his crap, nothing was shared to mark him or make him look like the $hit he is. I heard Harve Platig share at a staff meeting after martinpuke left. He said they didn't condone adultery. Of course he would say that publicly. They wanted us to believe that they were just as shocked as we were. They should have known it would only be a matter of time before they got caught with their pants down.
Thank God that Paul and Fern Allen had the guts and fortitude to expose that treacherous hell hole who calls themselves the beloved of God. We'll see what God thinks of those jack@$$es.
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GrouchoMarxJr
I believe that it was about 1987 when LCM was confronted by a number of leaders concerning his adultery. R.D. was one of them and has stated so publicly. It was lcm's adultry (and others)...that triggered the Shoenheit paper, which in turn, triggered many leaders being fired and quitting. People left in droves and it was all triggered by the adultery that was going on.
Chas...of course, they had their double standards. Afterall, they were the "special ones" in whom God spoke to and revealed great truth to them...dontcha know? All I did was stand up at a meeting and say that I disagreed with something that Martindale was teaching. The next frickin' day, I mean, the NEXT frickin' day...I was Marked and Avoided! People that I had known for years were told that I was possessed and to stay away from me. Of course at the time that I stood up at the meeting, I had already decided to quit...I had Marked and Avoided them first.
What sounded like a nobel sentiment, "When it comes to the word, we have no friends"...turned out to be an excuse to hurt people. If you didn't jump through their hoops and kiss their wide arses, you were treated with disrespect, disregard and contempt. They trashed the lives of thousands of people...just because they could. Decades of faithful service was rewarded with a boot in the a$$ and a middle finger sticking in their face. Twi gained it's considerable assets because of the thousands of people that they welcomed in, with open arms...When those same people were betrayed and disposed of, the assets remained with the lowlifes.
Today, the people in my life are genuine. My friends are REAL friends and I when it comes to my beliefs, I answer to no man. There is a lesson to be learned from our experiences with twi. The phoniness of their affection, care, and concern...only serves to underscore and illuminate the true value of those things when they are genuine. Twi helped me to develope a good bull.... meter...today, I can see these grifters coming a mile away.
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rascal
Good for you Uncle Hairy, having the guts to stand up for what was right.
How awfull that they trashed you and the others who did so....sheeshe, Hairy, they HAD to do that to anyone that had a decency or integrety....you folks were what was interfering with them being able to operate without impunity...being marked and avoided by a bunch that have proven to be so evil, is kind of a badge of honor.
It just kills me that the resources that we slaved to provide, both with our physical efforts as well as our monetary support...all the sacrifices made.......the people that we brought in to do the same....is all there now being enjoyed by the ones who treated everyone so horribly....
There was a poster on wd once claiming that he was ha...he said they laughed their asses off all the way to the bank.
As far as Donna M, when my husband wouldn`t accept an assignment .... even though I disagreed ...even though I was still as committed as ever....even though I was the same person that the believers had known and loved (some for over a decade) I was considered scum, and not allowed to do more than sit in a fellowship....wasn`t allowed to participate to hang out to got out for coffee....ALL BECAUSE OF MY HUSBANDS ACTIONS!!!!
Talk about double standards....I sure don`t know how you folks in twi can justify it....
I agree....now that I enjoy genuine friendship and concern....I know and deeply apreciate the differance....
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rascal
On second thought, I wouldn`t want anyone treated the way we were...no matter how deserving :-(
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Steve!
Rascal -
You are wrong, in my opinion. They SHOULD experience some of the grief that they caused. They SHOULD be made to feel the pain, the anguish, that they inflicted on others. Just so that they can grow as humans, and can understand, if not empathize, with those whose lives they racked and ruined.
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krys
In '98 when my son was kicked out with his wife...she was castigated for talking about her liasons with lcm. My son stood up in lcm's office and ripped him a new one.
After that....they offerred him a nice neat position at HQ during interum year - a change in assignment just a few weeks before the fact - because they were grooming them for something much bigger and both kids knew it. The only condition was that my son would have to put up with the adultery and preferably become a part of it, that was part of the deal.
There was another couple involved. The husband was at the Advanced Class helping and the wife was back in Gunnison with the children. They sent this gent back to Gunnison by local Grayhound Bus!
Meanwhile they got to his wife and told her whatever would twist her head around so that she and the children would stay in. They removed him...and kept her and gave her all kinds of preferential treatment.
During those times...the terms "unequally yoked together" were catchphrases and people were frequently encouraged to divorce their "unbelieving" spouse and stay with the Household. To the best of my knowledge she never heard the truth about the situation.
.
.
.
.
Once again...what's Godly here? The household is elevated about the commands of God. A few individuals act as if they are God Almighty making decisions for people without anybody's knowledge or consent.
Keeping their inner circle intact is the name of the game. Whether it's expensive suits, adultery, special favors....for the inner circle. Whatever suited them somehow became "The Word of the Lord" via the mouth of the MOG.
.
.
.
.
I remember sitting in the Anniversary hookup - whatever year that was - when it was announced that the Word was over the World....and as I heard the new stuff coming down and I just knew it was all bad. Even though I didn't know about the adultry stuff at the time.
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Radar OReilly
Krys,
This is the kind of actual, true and factual account that the innies and outies both need to hear. Your honest recounting of the facts are absolutely nauseating (or should be) to ANY AND ALL that have ever spent ONE SECOND praying for lcm and the board of trustees at the break of day, and at fellowships across the world.
This was a family tragedy for your family and your grandkids...while this sick and devilish activities were going on, people all over the "Way Tree" were being M&A for messy houses, rowdy teens or not absing enough.
What a freaking lie.
Radar
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krys
Radar - there is so much more lurking just beneath the surface that I justa dont have the courage to tell at the moment.
How about the alcoholic in my twig who was raked over the coals when he fell off the wagon soon into AA. Is there any kind of addict - addicted to any substance to pulls it off - getting clean - the first time with no slips? Was there any lovingkindness to help him get back on track? He was just a simple believer....and he was ground into dust. He would have been better off if he hadn't even tried.
But there was in the same state a bigwig who was also an alcoholic who had folks running interference for him and covering all his "mistakes" caused by his drunkenness....and he was still around until he was re-located shortly before I left.
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Catcup
Krys
What happened to you is more than a tragedy, and more common than TWI would have anyone believe.
TWI would also like for people to believe that LCM had a "one-time consensual affair" and now that he is "gone" the harshness and cruelty openly displayed in the ministry has left as well.
However, TWI has done what it has always ever done: Alter outward appearances whenever the money storms out the door in order to stop the financial hemmorhage.
Nothing, NOTHING will ever change at that evil empire. Especially as long as the women who covered Craig's illicit behaviors are still calling the shots.
And they are.
The Martindales are continuing to enjoy the fruits of the rearranged power structure at HQ and Rosie Lie has a cushy job beyond her wildest dreams.
Donna out on the street? Not on your life. If Donna went, Rosie would go, too.
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mzimagine
Don't you think Donna has suffered enough already?
Reminds me of Tammy Faye.
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Grizzy
Suffered where? Innies still think it was a one time affair and that LCM *missed* the mark and was put on spiritual probation and given every chance to get right. Donna has been shielded and protected, heck posters have reported Donna hanging at a resort type island driving around in a golf cart.
How about asking people like Chas, or how about couples with children run off with no contact with friends, as all their friends were *innies* and they had cut off their families for the *ministry* that they sold everything to serve; only to be booted with not much more than the clothes on their backs.
Professionals, giving up solid jobs with retirement scraping to rent a dump and picking furniture off the curbs and working *day* jobs so they could have money for supper. People scraping to survive while having their own children M&A them!
Suffered????? What a joke! Had she once stepped forward and actually stood up for God and all the women that had been abused and still being abused and blew the whistle on her husband or the MOG before, she would be worthy of consideration for some sympathy.
But, there are still some of *Craig’s* girls working on staff and Rosie and Donna know it! With all of her husband’s *house-cleaning* before why haven’t they bothered to clean-up HQ by removing women that helped LCM get his victims??
(HINT:
;)--> Rosie and Donna would be on the top of that list)
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Shellon
Grizz said: Had she once stepped forward ...
==============================================
Amen brother, I have considered that more than many times. She knew, she knew, she knew~!
As a woman, it's hard for me to find a place to put this; she knew other women were being abused, used, threatened, terrorized.
She did nothing.
TWI taught us that what we allow, we teach is ok.
I have to wonder about Donna now that her 2 daughters are grown up and a teenager, respectively. Will she hide it when one of the alleged rapists of twi go after one of them?
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Grizzy
Yeah Shellon!!!!!!!!
And Donna isn’t part of the *Stand By Your Man* generation!
There would be only honor and respect if she had, not the disgrace women of previous generations were subject to.
She could have been the woman that broke the cycle of abuse, but she is propitiating the cycle that may well affect her own. Her own are not an excuse, protecting them from the facts does them no favors! Some day some how each will have to deal with their father’s sins.
She has been able to maintain her life style and even some what of a *stage* image!
Like she had more to keep than what she could *gain* by truly taking a *STAND* for God!
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ChasUFarley
martyr - someone who suffers or dies for their beliefs, or for a particular cause, etc.
QUICK - Name one belief or cause, other than her own, have you seen Donna Martindale stand up or suffer for?
Suffered enough?
Puleeeezzzeeeee!
She vacationed at exotic locations (there's pictures here on GSC to prove it!) while the staff is told there will be no bonus that year or vacations more than 100 miles from HQ because they needed to keep "the wagons rounded".
She's never had to use a credit card for survival because she only had $60 cash and had to figure out how to get from TN to ME the cheepest.
She's never been abandoned by the "household" because of something her spouse did - even if she'd been sent with him by order of leadership!
She didn't have a ding on her credit report because her husband, who was M&A'ed, broke the lease on the apt they were told to get by leadership within a week or get M&A'ed.
Has she ever been threatened with being M&A'ed?
She's never been at odds for somewhere to live, wondered if she's going to have enough food to make it through the week or get her car repaired. She's been a kept woman for years!
Suffered?
I should say not.
If she "suffered" then why didn't she expose that louse of a husband of hers for what he was? Why didn't she get a lawyer or go to the BOT or whatever any point fingers (it was no secret about his antics! She's have had no trouble having them believe her!)??? She's not a "weak woman"...
Furthermore, she's made many, many people suffer!
What about the comments she made about the believer who died in a plane crash? Didn't she basically say it was because of his believing? There's audio clips of her rants from lunchtime on GSC to prove it. What about the pain she's caused people's families when they needed comfort?
In many ways she was no better than LCM. She was certainly no martyr - give me a break!
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