When I was "in" three years ago, there was no "firm" policy. When I was put on probation in 1999 they put my wife on probation with me, even though the "offenses" were purely mine. Two years later they threw me out and allowed her to stay.
If I was an "innie", I wouldn't neccessarily want Donna out of TWI, but out of the "chalet"? Yes.
I think she keeps a relatively low profile. If she were placed front and center, there would be too many questions to answer concerning the status of her relationaship with the former MOG. Plus, I'm sure it's easier to maintain her position as Rosalie's "special friend" if she stays hidden in the background, well beyond the scrutiny of the rank and file believer.
JT, I am trying to figure out if lcm is indeed in Toledo,OH. My brother-in-law lives there and is still in but when we do talk(very rarely) we both know to steer away from any twi discussion in order to keep the peace.
quote:I know of numerous cases like this...it's written right in the damn handbook..."If marriage splits up, you're both out of the corps". Not only that, but "you ain't welcome here no more, SCRAM!"...is the essence of what you are told. How come Donna is still there?
Uncle H, some of us have been asking this question for years. I think the answer is, she's been running TWI for a decade with her good friend, Rosalie, and she's got a lot of power and authority in there, too much for any faction to rebel. If twi were fair and equitable, she should have been given the same sentence as so many corps brothers and sisters of ours who had to leave with their spouse. But no, she's special, that also might be why the rules have changed, of late. Now, they make arbitrary decisions; whatever they feel like doing, they do. -->
also who is to say she is a homosexual? You think that because she is friends with another female?
this is all imaginary no one knows what their marriage is or isnt to asume they split because he had a different job does not make it the truth. if they were divorced it would be in the courts and pat would have brought it to us by now. they are still married and living on their own terms .
Why? did you read what Uncle H said about innocent corps spouses getting the boot, simply because they were married to corps spouses who had to leave? That was the policy some years ago. I gather it might have changed from what Oakspear has said (it sounds like its more arbitrary now). So why should Donna get a free pass now. If marriage was such an important commitment back then, so much so that one had to leave with their spouse, why not now?
maybe he was not "kicked out of the corps" ya know? I mean who would do that? He lost his position not his corps title .
even if he did they said if a spouse left many stayed in without them Oak wife stayed many left their marriages to stay in . just because a marriage split did not mean you had to go to, I know of people who stayed in and married the very people they had affairs with while being married.
maybe they are believing for it to work out. they are still married he is still corps and so is she . He lost his job but people get other jobs OM , she may have the house because of her position.
I could be wrong, but I'm under the impression that at one time, if a corps person got dismissed or screwed up or had to leave for some reason, and if they were married, their spouse had to leave as well. If that was the policy at one time, then I think Donna is getting a free pass, for not being forced to adhere to that same policy. If I'm wrong, then never mind. :D-->
But no matter what, she's still there because she's got lots of power and authority and nobody is going to challenge that. And of course, it doesn't hurt that she's the best of friends with Rosalie.
oh no that isnt true maybe some but not across the board rule by far. I know marriages that split because of the way and they are now ordained leader in the way .
I know of many marriages where only one spouse did the way thing. still do. but if the "unbeliever" choses to leave they leave and the one "standing is not to feel bad. it is written but no one is claiming LCM left twi at all so where is the problem?
I am pretty sure I have seen DM on thw Way Mag recently at my P's house. I also think I have heard them say something about her teaching on STS hook ups.
We can all say that DM should move out of the chalet and stop living off of twi's money, but there is one aspect of DM that we shouldn't forget: her children. I was never a fan of DM; she just didn't impress me in the 5 years I spent at HQ. Those poor kids have been through a lot in the past few years. Uprooting them in addition to the crap their $hithead father did would be extremely hard on them. I bet even the children were shocked to find out what their dad was doing.
I realize that there are several good people who were kicked out of twi root locations and had to uproot their kids. That kind of thing shouldn't happen to anyone.
True DM is still at TWI LCM hasen't been seen around Headquarters and is supposidly been given his walikng papers for indiscrepencies (done by him while Pres.).
But could there be a chance that Craigger's is still running the show from behind the picture via his wife? and that is why she is still in a position of power?
True others have been told to leave if one of the married couple supposidly "copped out" or left because of them not wanting to stay with a ministry that has one set of rules for the indians and another set for the chiefs.
It seems that TWI has always instituted unreasonable rules and regulations for the regular belivers. Look at the "No Pets" rule and 'RR' with pets of her own.
It makes me wonder IF LCM still has some measure of controll with what goes on at TWI and his wife DM is a major go between to pass on information both ways, to and from Headquarters.
Why would LCM give up the good life and have to get a 9 to 5 job when he could sit back and still be able to run things with 'RR' as the figurehead to take the heat away from him. If anything would go wrong 'legally' who would take the fall? RR or LCM? The legal system would go after the the one that would be at the head of the class, and not someone who was ousted and replaced as president.
DM should have left with LCM when the replaced him. But it still seems kinda strange.
danteh1...I have suspected as much for a long time...I know others here have debunked any idea that LCM is still running things...but I wonder...
Look at the circumstantial evidence:
1-If you know LCM well, then you know that he is adament about his role as MOG, in charge of twi. I don't suspect he walk away so easily.
2-His wife and children stay at hdqrts., living in the best place there.(instead of being booted with him).
3-LCM is living somewhere relatively close, in Ohio...doing what again? "Personal trainer"?...sounds like a "front" to me.
4-If LCM were REALLY leaving...wouldn't he have selected a replacement that is qualified as a leader? Someone who is charismatic, someone that people would follow? Someone of his own gender?...but if he was planning to keep running things from "behind the curtain", wouldn't he pick a figurehead, someone, perhaps who is an experienced administrator, who is not a challenge to his "leadership", who is loyal to him?...like Rosie?
5-LCM's books and classes are still front and center...When twi supposedly booted LCM, they had the perfect opprotunity to revive VPW's materials...nope, they kept everything the same (focused on LCM's materials)
6-I can't help but believe that if LCM were truly severed from twi, he would have started his own splinter group by now...what's stopping him? If you know LCM, he would never be content with being a "personal trainer" or to dispatch for UPS or whatever...he is obsessed with standing in the pulpit, pontificating to his followers. It seems more likely to me that he is still running twi from "behind the curtain" than, he has settled for a "mere job" like mortal men. Why he is not "leading his followers"...or is he?
7-Who remembers the MAL packs? When I was in residence at Emporia in the late 70's, We spent a great deal of time planning out "contingincy" plans in case we had to go "underground"...this included LCM and other top leaders. LCM had a "secret staff" prepared to go "underground" with him and run the ministry through an elaborate clandestine type system.
Who really believes that LCM has absolutely no influence on twi today? Maybe he still is running the whole operation from where he is in hiding...maybe not. I know that I am not convinced that he is gone...too many loose ends, too many unanswered questions, too many contradictions.
This all went down YEARS ago. As my momma always says, "**** or get off the pot." LCM need to either get back together under the same roof (preferably NOT the corps chalet) or divorce already. They are NOT divorced and this living arrangement it totally contrary to eveyrthing TWI teaches about Godly marriage.
DM is RRs personal assistant and she does receive special treatment. She does teach on the STS and she does write articles in the magazine.
LCM did lose his corps status, he did lose his Rev status and he is considered a cop out according to the WC I've spoken with.
99.9% of the WC couples who had one person booted were forced to lose their status, very few were granted exceptions to that rule. My guess is they had power, secrets or brought too much abs to the table to be forced to follow the same rules.
Maybe if the kids had to go through the same things their parents forced other families and kids to go through they wouldn't be such pansies for TWI. LM is on staff at hq and actively involved in the music department. She's and excellent student of her monther's on how to keep sucking on that TWIt T!t. (sorry if that sounds harsh, but that's how I feel)
I think the depth of treachery and deception and devilishness at the top levels of TWI is beyond even our comprehension.
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krys
Did I just see "self respect" in the same sentence as "Donna Martindale"? What's wrong with THIS picture?
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excathedra
she should have been gone the second he was.... WITH him.... that's it
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pjroberge
Maybe Donna believes her own drivel about those that leave the "protection" of the non prevailing swamp of TWI become greasespots....
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JustThinking
For the innies who lurk here:
Is DM mentioned at all? Does she teach on Sunday's etc.? Or is she pretty much out of view?
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Oakspear
Unc' H:
When I was "in" three years ago, there was no "firm" policy. When I was put on probation in 1999 they put my wife on probation with me, even though the "offenses" were purely mine. Two years later they threw me out and allowed her to stay.
If I was an "innie", I wouldn't neccessarily want Donna out of TWI, but out of the "chalet"? Yes.
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WordWolf
Those of you who aren't aware of her positions should listen to the
audio clips of her, stored at the GSC here....
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Cherished Child
I think she keeps a relatively low profile. If she were placed front and center, there would be too many questions to answer concerning the status of her relationaship with the former MOG. Plus, I'm sure it's easier to maintain her position as Rosalie's "special friend" if she stays hidden in the background, well beyond the scrutiny of the rank and file believer.
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pjroberge
The audio file on what Donna and TWI's official position on those that leave is located at:
http://www.excultworld.com/misc_articles/brown2.rm
Donna's former husband's position on "special friends" is located at:
http://www.excultworld.com/pdf-docs/homos071294.pdf
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JustThinking
Is Donna still married to LCM?
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bluesunday
JT, I am trying to figure out if lcm is indeed in Toledo,OH. My brother-in-law lives there and is still in but when we do talk(very rarely) we both know to steer away from any twi discussion in order to keep the peace.
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oldiesman
Uncle H, some of us have been asking this question for years. I think the answer is, she's been running TWI for a decade with her good friend, Rosalie, and she's got a lot of power and authority in there, too much for any faction to rebel. If twi were fair and equitable, she should have been given the same sentence as so many corps brothers and sisters of ours who had to leave with their spouse. But no, she's special, that also might be why the rules have changed, of late. Now, they make arbitrary decisions; whatever they feel like doing, they do.
-->
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mj412
Maybe they didnt split.
also who is to say she is a homosexual? You think that because she is friends with another female?
this is all imaginary no one knows what their marriage is or isnt to asume they split because he had a different job does not make it the truth. if they were divorced it would be in the courts and pat would have brought it to us by now. they are still married and living on their own terms .
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oldiesman
which is why she should get booted.
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mj412
why om ? they are married. they did not split up.
he lost his job she didnt lose hers.
the house was built for corps and that is who is living there , the president of the corporation may have given it to her as a perk for her position.
we do not know but to say she should be asked to leave because many had to leave the corps because they divorced well they are NOT divorced.
so why?
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oldiesman
Why? did you read what Uncle H said about innocent corps spouses getting the boot, simply because they were married to corps spouses who had to leave? That was the policy some years ago. I gather it might have changed from what Oakspear has said (it sounds like its more arbitrary now). So why should Donna get a free pass now. If marriage was such an important commitment back then, so much so that one had to leave with their spouse, why not now?
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mj412
maybe he was not "kicked out of the corps" ya know? I mean who would do that? He lost his position not his corps title .
even if he did they said if a spouse left many stayed in without them Oak wife stayed many left their marriages to stay in . just because a marriage split did not mean you had to go to, I know of people who stayed in and married the very people they had affairs with while being married.
maybe they are believing for it to work out. they are still married he is still corps and so is she . He lost his job but people get other jobs OM , she may have the house because of her position.
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oldiesman
I could be wrong, but I'm under the impression that at one time, if a corps person got dismissed or screwed up or had to leave for some reason, and if they were married, their spouse had to leave as well. If that was the policy at one time, then I think Donna is getting a free pass, for not being forced to adhere to that same policy. If I'm wrong, then never mind.
:D-->
But no matter what, she's still there because she's got lots of power and authority and nobody is going to challenge that. And of course, it doesn't hurt that she's the best of friends with Rosalie.
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mj412
oh no that isnt true maybe some but not across the board rule by far. I know marriages that split because of the way and they are now ordained leader in the way .
I know of many marriages where only one spouse did the way thing. still do. but if the "unbeliever" choses to leave they leave and the one "standing is not to feel bad. it is written but no one is claiming LCM left twi at all so where is the problem?
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Steve!
Keep in mind, Oakspear wasn't corpse. That could be the difference in his case.
Also, there are posters here who have personal knowledge of DM and Rozilla's "friendship" - it is NOT simply a buddy-buddy thing.
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lindyhopper
JT,
I am pretty sure I have seen DM on thw Way Mag recently at my P's house. I also think I have heard them say something about her teaching on STS hook ups.
I might be wrong but I think it is true.
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Nottawayfer
We can all say that DM should move out of the chalet and stop living off of twi's money, but there is one aspect of DM that we shouldn't forget: her children. I was never a fan of DM; she just didn't impress me in the 5 years I spent at HQ. Those poor kids have been through a lot in the past few years. Uprooting them in addition to the crap their $hithead father did would be extremely hard on them. I bet even the children were shocked to find out what their dad was doing.
I realize that there are several good people who were kicked out of twi root locations and had to uproot their kids. That kind of thing shouldn't happen to anyone.
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danteh1
True DM is still at TWI LCM hasen't been seen around Headquarters and is supposidly been given his walikng papers for indiscrepencies (done by him while Pres.).
But could there be a chance that Craigger's is still running the show from behind the picture via his wife? and that is why she is still in a position of power?
True others have been told to leave if one of the married couple supposidly "copped out" or left because of them not wanting to stay with a ministry that has one set of rules for the indians and another set for the chiefs.
It seems that TWI has always instituted unreasonable rules and regulations for the regular belivers. Look at the "No Pets" rule and 'RR' with pets of her own.
It makes me wonder IF LCM still has some measure of controll with what goes on at TWI and his wife DM is a major go between to pass on information both ways, to and from Headquarters.
Why would LCM give up the good life and have to get a 9 to 5 job when he could sit back and still be able to run things with 'RR' as the figurehead to take the heat away from him. If anything would go wrong 'legally' who would take the fall? RR or LCM? The legal system would go after the the one that would be at the head of the class, and not someone who was ousted and replaced as president.
DM should have left with LCM when the replaced him. But it still seems kinda strange.
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GrouchoMarxJr
danteh1...I have suspected as much for a long time...I know others here have debunked any idea that LCM is still running things...but I wonder...
Look at the circumstantial evidence:
1-If you know LCM well, then you know that he is adament about his role as MOG, in charge of twi. I don't suspect he walk away so easily.
2-His wife and children stay at hdqrts., living in the best place there.(instead of being booted with him).
3-LCM is living somewhere relatively close, in Ohio...doing what again? "Personal trainer"?...sounds like a "front" to me.
4-If LCM were REALLY leaving...wouldn't he have selected a replacement that is qualified as a leader? Someone who is charismatic, someone that people would follow? Someone of his own gender?...but if he was planning to keep running things from "behind the curtain", wouldn't he pick a figurehead, someone, perhaps who is an experienced administrator, who is not a challenge to his "leadership", who is loyal to him?...like Rosie?
5-LCM's books and classes are still front and center...When twi supposedly booted LCM, they had the perfect opprotunity to revive VPW's materials...nope, they kept everything the same (focused on LCM's materials)
6-I can't help but believe that if LCM were truly severed from twi, he would have started his own splinter group by now...what's stopping him? If you know LCM, he would never be content with being a "personal trainer" or to dispatch for UPS or whatever...he is obsessed with standing in the pulpit, pontificating to his followers. It seems more likely to me that he is still running twi from "behind the curtain" than, he has settled for a "mere job" like mortal men. Why he is not "leading his followers"...or is he?
7-Who remembers the MAL packs? When I was in residence at Emporia in the late 70's, We spent a great deal of time planning out "contingincy" plans in case we had to go "underground"...this included LCM and other top leaders. LCM had a "secret staff" prepared to go "underground" with him and run the ministry through an elaborate clandestine type system.
Who really believes that LCM has absolutely no influence on twi today? Maybe he still is running the whole operation from where he is in hiding...maybe not. I know that I am not convinced that he is gone...too many loose ends, too many unanswered questions, too many contradictions.
What do you think?
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Belle
This all went down YEARS ago. As my momma always says, "**** or get off the pot." LCM need to either get back together under the same roof (preferably NOT the corps chalet) or divorce already. They are NOT divorced and this living arrangement it totally contrary to eveyrthing TWI teaches about Godly marriage.
DM is RRs personal assistant and she does receive special treatment. She does teach on the STS and she does write articles in the magazine.
LCM did lose his corps status, he did lose his Rev status and he is considered a cop out according to the WC I've spoken with.
99.9% of the WC couples who had one person booted were forced to lose their status, very few were granted exceptions to that rule. My guess is they had power, secrets or brought too much abs to the table to be forced to follow the same rules.
Maybe if the kids had to go through the same things their parents forced other families and kids to go through they wouldn't be such pansies for TWI. LM is on staff at hq and actively involved in the music department. She's and excellent student of her monther's on how to keep sucking on that TWIt T!t. (sorry if that sounds harsh, but that's how I feel)
I think the depth of treachery and deception and devilishness at the top levels of TWI is beyond even our comprehension.
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