Yes folks, what we have here is the Calvinist version of the showdown at high noon! ((insert tune from the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly here ;)-->))
Except it seems that this involves the weapon of choice being theological dictionaries! --> And the proper and skilled usage of big and multi-voweled words therefrom.
Thus we have a combination of The Defense of Orthodoxy and Have Gun, Will Travel.
And as the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly whistling tune fades into the background, I scrounge around, looking for where I put that pic I made of Calvin in the cowboy hat. ... But lets face it folks, Reagan, he ain't.
I doubt if Lynn will take the bait...he's not interested in theological debate as much as he is in recruiting a few of us "lost souls" here at GS.
Besides, theological debates are both pointless and self indulging. Who cares? Does somebody get a star on their report card if they can show how their religious viewpoint is more valid than somebody elses? I suppose if being a bible "authority" is what decorates your cookies...then go for it. However, I seriously doubt that your theological debates will get you into heaven any faster. I would rather focus on how I live my life than how well I can argue my theology.
What you think about the conduct of your particular little life is of less global significance than truth and error concerning the God of Scripture and his eternal Son Jesus Christ.
If you disdain theological debates and apologetic challenges, stay away from them.
Wonderfully, I think Uncle Harry's particular little life is of more signifance to the Master, than the truth and error concerning the God of Scripture.
Perhaps thats why all theological debate will never be resolved in a method that serves our brains. I'm not critizing you either cynic, cause if the Master didnt love me I might be out selling flowers for the moonies. :)-->
I doubt if Lynn will take the bait...he's not interested in theological debate as much as he is in recruiting a few of us "lost souls" here at GS.
It isn't "bait," but it's unlikely any of the "LSG" boys (except maybe Schoenheit) even could respond intelligently. If Schoenheit does, it might be along the lines of, "I've forgotten more about the bible than you'll ever know."
Besides, theological debates are both pointless and self indulging... I would rather focus on how I live my life than how well I can argue my theology.
Remarks like this one are pointless and self-indulging. Why even comment if you have no interest? This is a form of TWI's inverted snobbery where any higher theological learning beyond Wierwille's collaterals was viewed as unnecessary, inherently "inaccurate," and even heresy. In other words, we were proud of our stupidity.
I for one hope "LSG" surprises me, and takes Cynic's challenge seriously. I'm not holding my breath.
quote: What you think about the conduct of your particular little life is of less global significance than truth and error concerning the God of Scripture and his eternal Son Jesus Christ.
"Here he comes to save the d-a-a-y-y-y!!"
The love that this guy has for us folks, .... kinda gets ya (tapping chest) right here.
Garth, your own posts border on trolling, stalking or personal harrassment. What exactly are you doing here? You've avoided the topic, so it obviously doesn't interest you. You are interested soley in annoying Cynic. Will you grow up?
Okay, my apologies, but I did find Cynic's 'calling out' John Lynn for a theological showdown rather hilarious.
And I do find sky4it's post of "Wonderfully, I think Uncle Harry's particular little life is of more signifance to the Master, than the truth and error concerning the God of Scripture." more in tune with what many people are looking for as regards spiritual truths than the 'escotological dogmas' and other verbal flatulance by those who take their theology a tad more serious than is necessary.
But then again, that's just my 'particular little life', ...and I think that its fine right where it is.
Carry on Sheriff Cynic. ... Just try to aim straight, willya?
(But seriously QQ--err, Satori, trying to portray my *2* posts as "trolling, stalking or personal harrassment" is going a bit over the top, ... even for you. So lighten up will you?
Don't want to start sounding like R0cky now do you? ;)--> )
quote:I would rather focus on how I live my life than how well I can argue my theology.
In reply, Cynic said:
quote:Originally posted by Cynic:
UncleHairy,
-What you think
-about the conduct
-of your particular little life
-is of less global significance
-than truth and error
-concerning the God of Scripture
-and his eternal Son Jesus Christ.
Sky4it and Garth both mis-read the above to mean, "Your life isn't as important as my theology."
Not content with mangling the meaning of one statement Garth goes on. He characterizes Cynic's reference to Jesus' "eschatological statements" (concerning the end times, in other words) as
quote:'escotological dogmas' and other verbal flatulance by those who take their theology a tad more serious than is necessary.
"Verbal flatulence?" Garth doesn't even "apologize" without adding further insult. And what are "escotological dogmas" anyway? He mis-spells the word though it's right in front of him, removing all doubt that his only purpose here is, not understanding, not communication, but pure harrassment, even on his way out.
And what does this have to do with John Lynn? EVERYTHING!
Garth's attitude is nothing less than a caricature of John Lynn's own mocking and derisive attitude. Who is better known for belittling those biblical issues over which he is advised quietly by others not to worry his little head? He'll leave the intellectual "heavy lifting" (to borrow George Aar's phrase) to Vic Wierwille, John Schoenheit, Jay Leno, Shaq, Latrell Sprewell and others. JAL is the Master of Ceremonies for CES' dog and pony/medicine show, softening the audience up by wise-cracking through the (mostly lame) jokes, and then sweet-talking them with a canned sales-talk calculated to keep them coming back for more.
quote: What you think about the conduct of your particular little life is of less global significance than truth and error concerning the God of Scripture and his eternal Son Jesus Christ.
And you say *I* can't read?
Of course Cynic is communicating "Your life isn't as important as my theology." (Less global significance?) And he says it in as just a derisive way ("particular little life") as you see in John Lynn.
And you should talk about treating people with derision. Interesting you see it so often in others (namely Democrats, liberals, Lynn followers, VPW followers, moderates, et al.) yet either you can't see it in yourself, or you usually justify it based on some conservative-sounding 'principle'.
And this has nothing to do with John Lynn, as I've directed this same kind of humor and satire at him, so spare me.
Whatever! But if this is what you see as 'harrassment', your skin is thinner than I thought. (And it isn't even aimed in your direction) Harrassment my a**! (And I didn't realize that a mis-spelled word constituted harrassment. -->)
Sheesh! Lighten up, Frances. You must be really having a rather bad day to see my humurous posts as 'harrassment'. The intensity of which comes nowhere near the searing derision of yours.
It isn't "bait," but it's unlikely any of the "LSG" boys (except maybe Schoenheit) even could respond intelligently. If Schoenheit does, it might be along the lines of, "I've forgotten more about the bible than you'll ever know."
You're out of the loop, satori, and are engaging in those circuitous reasonings that you accuse "LSG" of being so proficient of. You are so locked into a mentality of "they can't be right", that you are now making absurd accusations/ observations/ whatever-you-want-to-call-them, against folks who happen to differ from you.
I have yet to hear any one of "LSG", or anyone in CES for that matter, say "I've forgotten more about the bible, than you will ever know". You know what??? Those words, in that particular sequence is not now, nor has ever been, in our vocabulary. I would never be so presumptuous as to even think such a thing, and in the 15 plus years I have hung out with CES, I have never heard anyone else say them either.
If you don't care for the group, well hey -- as I said before, it is a free country. You do whatever turns your crank, but when you make allegations, declarations, whatever -- try to attempt for a little bit of accuracy, and don't engage in "slander" to make an inflammatory comment that leads nowhere, except to stroke your own ego.
If you have a bunch of pent-up stuff inside (and man, does it ever sound like you do), don't go spewing it out in my/our direction. It is wasted effort. Constructive criticism (at least in my life) is always welcome. I ignore fallacious allegations. Life is too short.
Thus we have a combination of The Defense of Orthodoxy and Have Gun, Will Travel.
you gotta admit your certainly poking fun at cynic, which sort of mutes the arguement on anything of his comebacks. Personally , I enjoy that fact he has looked into the doctrinal dogmas, especially the parts where cynic shows how certain scriptures are deleted or downplayed, it adds to understanding.
Satori: Your comments about Ronald McDevil and the McBible were hilarious.
Of course I'm poking fun at Cynic's comments; ie., the "Step out into the street, Mr. Lynn!". If it weren't for that, Satori's right; I wouldn't have addressed it, as it is Yet More Calvinist theological challenge/railing against their old time adversaries, Unitarians. And apparently Cynic views unitarian beliefs (both the 'biblical' variety and the 'new age' variety) as something vile, that is either a threat to society, and/or an *insult* against his God. And like a 'good knight defending the Faith', off he goes tackling his windmills---err 'ungodly opponents'. ;)-->
And yes, I do view it as quite Quixotic.
And ya know, the funny thing I find about Satori's defense of Cynic is, Satori doesn't really believe this theological stuff himself. An agnostic-sorta guy running to the defense of a stout Orthodox believer.
Oh yeah, this stuff is *rich* with humor and satire! Hell, it almost makes for good English comedy. :D-->
Too bad the founder of Monty Python is dead. He might have made a good "Life of Brian" knockoff flick with it.
I am going to try not to let myself get distracted by Garth's banal interjections and obstructionist tactics.
*****
John Lynn,
Should you, S or G wish to respond to my comments, merely post a short indication to that effect in this thread. I will then begin a new thread, reissuing my first post of this thread.
Since JAL already indicated that he's not going to be posting regularly and getting into dialogues here (and has taken the heat for it) and he specifically cited a disinterest in speaking to those who don't post their real names, why not just e-mail him or call him? You can even do it as Steve Lortz did, indicating that you posted your question on Greasespot and that you will post his reply.
I don't recall L,G, or S ever saying romans 9, 10, or 11 are not God-breathed, and I have listened to their tapes on the Book of Romans. I'd be interested in their answer to your question. I just think you've chosen a questioning method that is not likely to succeed in obtaining an answer.
1. Look at the end of my first post. That ain't your name there.
Yeah, well I'm talking to you.
Public message board. If you don't want other people to reply, don't post it on a public message board.
[CORRECTION: OOPS! I MISUNDERSTOOD. I owe Cynic an apology. Forgive me for not reading more closely. And P.S. nice to meet you].
If you're actually interested in an answer to your questions, JAL gave clear instructions on how to contact him. If you're interested in posturing and proving that JAL isn't interested in dialogue, then by all means, start a thread and wait for Godot.
My post to you was meant in kindness, Cynic. I didn't mean to criticize you, only to point out that if you posted to actually get an answer, there's plenty of reason to believe it ain't gonna work.
quote:2. I think JAL did dismiss a portion of the 9th chapter of Romans on CES' old message board.
Fair enough. I don't remember that, but if you do, that's good enough for me. It deserves an answer.
quote:3. Due to the heat on this forum for big-weenie ex-TWI figures, some other forum might be better for the discussion.
I could be wrong, but calling him a "big weenie" might not be the best way to engender the good will for a serious response to your (very valid) questions.
I've been editing my last post like mad, considering my tremendous blunder about JAL and anonymous posters. I'm going to stop editing though: the last edit was an apology to Cynic, which I repeat here. I'm sorry I missed what you were trying to tell me.
I don't think it helped John to post that he wouldn't be posting. It gave ammo to people who say he's not interested in dialogue. I think he is interested in dialogue: just not here. That seems to go for named posters, and especially for unnamed.
I think there's still plenty of reason to suggest that JAL won't reply: anonymity is just not one of those reasons.
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sky4it
cynic:
interesting stuff,
do post more, I am interested in your thoughts.
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GarthP2000
"Step out into the street, Mr. Lynn!"
Yes folks, what we have here is the Calvinist version of the showdown at high noon! ((insert tune from the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly here
;)-->))
Except it seems that this involves the weapon of choice being theological dictionaries!
--> And the proper and skilled usage of big and multi-voweled words therefrom.
Thus we have a combination of The Defense of Orthodoxy and Have Gun, Will Travel.
And as the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly whistling tune fades into the background, I scrounge around, looking for where I put that pic I made of Calvin in the cowboy hat. ... But lets face it folks, Reagan, he ain't.
;)-->
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GrouchoMarxJr
I doubt if Lynn will take the bait...he's not interested in theological debate as much as he is in recruiting a few of us "lost souls" here at GS.
Besides, theological debates are both pointless and self indulging. Who cares? Does somebody get a star on their report card if they can show how their religious viewpoint is more valid than somebody elses? I suppose if being a bible "authority" is what decorates your cookies...then go for it. However, I seriously doubt that your theological debates will get you into heaven any faster. I would rather focus on how I live my life than how well I can argue my theology.
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Cynic
UncleHairy,
What you think about the conduct of your particular little life is of less global significance than truth and error concerning the God of Scripture and his eternal Son Jesus Christ.
If you disdain theological debates and apologetic challenges, stay away from them.
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sky4it
cynic:
Wonderfully, I think Uncle Harry's particular little life is of more signifance to the Master, than the truth and error concerning the God of Scripture.
Perhaps thats why all theological debate will never be resolved in a method that serves our brains. I'm not critizing you either cynic, cause if the Master didnt love me I might be out selling flowers for the moonies.
:)-->
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satori001
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GarthP2000
"Here he comes to save the d-a-a-y-y-y!!"
The love that this guy has for us folks, .... kinda gets ya (tapping chest) right here.
((wistful sigh))
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satori001
Garth, your own posts border on trolling, stalking or personal harrassment. What exactly are you doing here? You've avoided the topic, so it obviously doesn't interest you. You are interested soley in annoying Cynic. Will you grow up?
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sky4it
satori:
I agree, I dont understand Garth's purpose is unless he wants to sing some country western tunes.
cynic: I enjoy your posts.
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GarthP2000
Okay, my apologies, but I did find Cynic's 'calling out' John Lynn for a theological showdown rather hilarious.
And I do find sky4it's post of "Wonderfully, I think Uncle Harry's particular little life is of more signifance to the Master, than the truth and error concerning the God of Scripture." more in tune with what many people are looking for as regards spiritual truths than the 'escotological dogmas' and other verbal flatulance by those who take their theology a tad more serious than is necessary.
But then again, that's just my 'particular little life', ...and I think that its fine right where it is.
Carry on Sheriff Cynic. ... Just try to aim straight, willya?
(But seriously QQ--err, Satori, trying to portray my *2* posts as "trolling, stalking or personal harrassment" is going a bit over the top, ... even for you. So lighten up will you?
Don't want to start sounding like R0cky now do you?
;)--> )
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satori001
Uncle Hairy said
In reply, Cynic said:
Sky4it and Garth both mis-read the above to mean, "Your life isn't as important as my theology."
Not content with mangling the meaning of one statement Garth goes on. He characterizes Cynic's reference to Jesus' "eschatological statements" (concerning the end times, in other words) as
"Verbal flatulence?" Garth doesn't even "apologize" without adding further insult. And what are "escotological dogmas" anyway? He mis-spells the word though it's right in front of him, removing all doubt that his only purpose here is, not understanding, not communication, but pure harrassment, even on his way out.And what does this have to do with John Lynn? EVERYTHING!
Garth's attitude is nothing less than a caricature of John Lynn's own mocking and derisive attitude. Who is better known for belittling those biblical issues over which he is advised quietly by others not to worry his little head? He'll leave the intellectual "heavy lifting" (to borrow George Aar's phrase) to Vic Wierwille, John Schoenheit, Jay Leno, Shaq, Latrell Sprewell and others. JAL is the Master of Ceremonies for CES' dog and pony/medicine show, softening the audience up by wise-cracking through the (mostly lame) jokes, and then sweet-talking them with a canned sales-talk calculated to keep them coming back for more.
Eschatology? What's that got to do with anything?
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GarthP2000
Read it again, Satori, carefully this time.
And you say *I* can't read?
Of course Cynic is communicating "Your life isn't as important as my theology." (Less global significance?) And he says it in as just a derisive way ("particular little life") as you see in John Lynn.
And you should talk about treating people with derision. Interesting you see it so often in others (namely Democrats, liberals, Lynn followers, VPW followers, moderates, et al.) yet either you can't see it in yourself, or you usually justify it based on some conservative-sounding 'principle'.
And this has nothing to do with John Lynn, as I've directed this same kind of humor and satire at him, so spare me.
Whatever! But if this is what you see as 'harrassment', your skin is thinner than I thought. (And it isn't even aimed in your direction) Harrassment my a**! (And I didn't realize that a mis-spelled word constituted harrassment.
-->)
Sheesh! Lighten up, Frances. You must be really having a rather bad day to see my humurous posts as 'harrassment'. The intensity of which comes nowhere near the searing derision of yours.
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satori001
I rest my case.
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dmiller
You're out of the loop, satori, and are engaging in those circuitous reasonings that you accuse "LSG" of being so proficient of. You are so locked into a mentality of "they can't be right", that you are now making absurd accusations/ observations/ whatever-you-want-to-call-them, against folks who happen to differ from you.
I have yet to hear any one of "LSG", or anyone in CES for that matter, say "I've forgotten more about the bible, than you will ever know". You know what??? Those words, in that particular sequence is not now, nor has ever been, in our vocabulary. I would never be so presumptuous as to even think such a thing, and in the 15 plus years I have hung out with CES, I have never heard anyone else say them either.
If you don't care for the group, well hey -- as I said before, it is a free country. You do whatever turns your crank, but when you make allegations, declarations, whatever -- try to attempt for a little bit of accuracy, and don't engage in "slander" to make an inflammatory comment that leads nowhere, except to stroke your own ego.
If you have a bunch of pent-up stuff inside (and man, does it ever sound like you do), don't go spewing it out in my/our direction. It is wasted effort. Constructive criticism (at least in my life) is always welcome. I ignore fallacious allegations. Life is too short.
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sky4it
Garth:
your comment:
Thus we have a combination of The Defense of Orthodoxy and Have Gun, Will Travel.
you gotta admit your certainly poking fun at cynic, which sort of mutes the arguement on anything of his comebacks. Personally , I enjoy that fact he has looked into the doctrinal dogmas, especially the parts where cynic shows how certain scriptures are deleted or downplayed, it adds to understanding.
Satori: Your comments about Ronald McDevil and the McBible were hilarious.
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GarthP2000
sky4it,
Of course I'm poking fun at Cynic's comments; ie., the "Step out into the street, Mr. Lynn!". If it weren't for that, Satori's right; I wouldn't have addressed it, as it is Yet More Calvinist theological challenge/railing against their old time adversaries, Unitarians. And apparently Cynic views unitarian beliefs (both the 'biblical' variety and the 'new age' variety) as something vile, that is either a threat to society, and/or an *insult* against his God. And like a 'good knight defending the Faith', off he goes tackling his windmills---err 'ungodly opponents'.
;)-->
And yes, I do view it as quite Quixotic.
And ya know, the funny thing I find about Satori's defense of Cynic is, Satori doesn't really believe this theological stuff himself. An agnostic-sorta guy running to the defense of a stout Orthodox believer.
Oh yeah, this stuff is *rich* with humor and satire! Hell, it almost makes for good English comedy.
:D-->
Too bad the founder of Monty Python is dead. He might have made a good "Life of Brian" knockoff flick with it.
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Cynic
I am going to try not to let myself get distracted by Garth's banal interjections and obstructionist tactics.
*****
John Lynn,
Should you, S or G wish to respond to my comments, merely post a short indication to that effect in this thread. I will then begin a new thread, reissuing my first post of this thread.
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Raf
Since JAL already indicated that he's not going to be posting regularly and getting into dialogues here (and has taken the heat for it) and he specifically cited a disinterest in speaking to those who don't post their real names, why not just e-mail him or call him? You can even do it as Steve Lortz did, indicating that you posted your question on Greasespot and that you will post his reply.
I don't recall L,G, or S ever saying romans 9, 10, or 11 are not God-breathed, and I have listened to their tapes on the Book of Romans. I'd be interested in their answer to your question. I just think you've chosen a questioning method that is not likely to succeed in obtaining an answer.
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Cynic
Raf,
1. Look at the end of my first post. That ain't your name there.
2. I think JAL did dismiss a portion of the 9th chapter of Romans on CES' old message board.
3. Due to the heat on this forum for big-weenie ex-TWI figures, some other forum might be better for the discussion.
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Raf
Cynic,
Yeah, well I'm talking to you.
Public message board. If you don't want other people to reply, don't post it on a public message board.
[CORRECTION: OOPS! I MISUNDERSTOOD. I owe Cynic an apology. Forgive me for not reading more closely. And P.S. nice to meet you].
If you're actually interested in an answer to your questions, JAL gave clear instructions on how to contact him. If you're interested in posturing and proving that JAL isn't interested in dialogue, then by all means, start a thread and wait for Godot.
My post to you was meant in kindness, Cynic. I didn't mean to criticize you, only to point out that if you posted to actually get an answer, there's plenty of reason to believe it ain't gonna work.
Fair enough. I don't remember that, but if you do, that's good enough for me. It deserves an answer.
I could be wrong, but calling him a "big weenie" might not be the best way to engender the good will for a serious response to your (very valid) questions.
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Cynic
Raf,
My point #1 involved making the point that the above comment is inapplicable to me.
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Raf
I've been editing my last post like mad, considering my tremendous blunder about JAL and anonymous posters. I'm going to stop editing though: the last edit was an apology to Cynic, which I repeat here. I'm sorry I missed what you were trying to tell me.
I don't think it helped John to post that he wouldn't be posting. It gave ammo to people who say he's not interested in dialogue. I think he is interested in dialogue: just not here. That seems to go for named posters, and especially for unnamed.
I think there's still plenty of reason to suggest that JAL won't reply: anonymity is just not one of those reasons.
Anyway, sorry, and thanks, and ...
I don't know. Wait?
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Cynic
I'm more optimistic about JAL responding.
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Hills Bro
Cynic, didn't your mommy ever tell you to look into the camera ,smile and say cheese? Nice neck!!
:D--> 
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