You may have found the long lost book of the bible that has everyone of us in it. Whew! Its all written down about all of us in the book of the Prophet Iddo. 2 Chronicles 13:22
It's the things yah did and the things you didnt do in the book of the prophet Iddo. I did I did I did or I really didnt do in the book of the prophet Iddo. What did I actually do? I did and didnt do do, in the book of the prophet Iddo.
Kinda makes that babes and suckling thing word eh?
quote:CES and other splinter groups tell you, "Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater." What they're really saying is, "You don't have the baby, we do, and if you ever want to see the kid, punk, you have to come to our nursery."
I still don't see the point in getting on CES's case, or condemning them, cause they think they're right. All religions think they're right. ...
You may have found the long lost book of the bible that has everyone of us in it. Whew! Its all written down about all of us in the book of the Prophet Iddo. 2 Chronicles 13:22
It's the things yah did and the things you didnt do in the book of the prophet Iddo. I did I did I did or I really didnt do in the book of the prophet Iddo. What did I actually do? I did and didnt do do, in the book of the prophet Iddo.
Kinda makes that babes and suckling thing word eh?
I still don't see the point in getting on CES's case, or condemning them, cause they think they're right. All religions think they're right.
Oldiesman,
First of all, how do you know that "all religions think they're right?" I don't see that. That's a ridiculous and foolish statement. The most common denominations claim some proximity to the truth, and they're grateful for that much, but only the fundies believe they possess the only truth, and only the cults (if there is a fine distinction) think they monopolize the most essential (obscure and special, which is to say, mind-numbing) truths.
Second, I'm not getting on CES's case or condemning them because they "think they are right." I am pointing out the "viral" nature of CES's origins, and evidence that CES shares much of TWI's "DNA." This is to say, if you get in bed with CES, use "protection," or you may contract a case of the TWI'ts. Don't become a TWIt all over again.
Regarding your quote, "TWI has no power over you except that which your actions allow," what do one's "actions" have to do with TWI's potential influence? Wouldn't "thoughts" be a better choice of words? And what thoughts (or actions, if you insist), might ward off TWI's evil powers? Just wondering.
An interesting definition of what a cult is comes by way of Captain Robert Snow. Captain Snow oversees the Robbery and Homicide division of the Indianapolis, Indiana police department, and has been a policeman for over 38 years.
He is also a well-respected author with 7 books on the market. His latest book, "Dangerous Cults" (ISBN # 0-275-98052-9 www.Robertsnow.com) is about cultic groups from a law enforcement perspective.
Captain Snow labeled TWI as a cult and TWI's activities are prominently mentioned and discussed in chapters 13 & 14. Captain Snow states:
"But far from regular, orthodox religions, religious cults, using my definition, can be fairly easy to spot because, along with being involved in some type of criminal activity, they offer their members a certain ticket to heaven as part of a group especially appointed and chosen by God." (Page 41 bottom paragraph)
First of all, how do you know that "all religions think they're right?"
Of course I'm just rendering an opinion, but that's what I've seen through life's experience, and just plain old common sense. Folks tend to think they are right, especially Christian folks. Nothing wrong with that.
quote:I don't see that. That's a ridiculous and foolish statement. The most common denominations claim some proximity to the truth, and they're grateful for that much, but only the fundies believe they possess the only truth, and only the cults (if there is a fine distinction) think they monopolize the most essential (obscure and special, which is to say, mind-numbing) truths.
Not from what I've seen. But you are free to disagree if you wish.
quote: Second, I'm not getting on CES's case or condemning them because they "think they are right."...
I thought the baby in the nursery comment you made was exactly that. Why get on their case if they think you would be better off coming to their baby? Isn't that what all religions think, that they're on the right track? At least doctrinally, I see this clearly.
quote:I am pointing out the "viral" nature of CES's origins, and evidence that CES shares much of TWI's "DNA." This is to say, if you get in bed with CES, use "protection," or you may contract a case of the TWI'ts. Don't become a TWIt all over again.
I think you are being presumptuous and saying things we don't know yet and haven't yet been proven. CES (John Lynn) has stated they wish to eat the fish, and spit out the bones. What does that mean? I think it means they wish to keep the goodies of TWI, and abandon the errors. We can hold them to that standard. I think they've done a good job, so far, but they're not perfect, we know that too. But I just don't see them repeating the same mistakes as twi-2. If they have, you are free to point them out and argue your point.
quote:Regarding your quote, "TWI has no power over you except that which your actions allow," what do one's "actions" have to do with TWI's potential influence? Wouldn't "thoughts" be a better choice of words? And what thoughts (or actions, if you insist), might ward off TWI's evil powers? Just wondering.
It's a great statement, isn't it? Originally made by an intelligent GS poster. I'd like to leave it alone and don't want to change or revise it; it really speaks for itself, and needs no interpretation or defense from me. You are free to disagree if you wish.
Of course I'm just rendering an opinion, but that's what I've seen through life's experience, and just plain old common sense. Folks tend to think they are right, especially Christian folks. Nothing wrong with that.
Did Wierwille "tend to think" he was right? Martindale? No, you are trying to justify TWI (and all cults, including CES) by saying that there is only one degree of certainty, shared by every "religion." That is at best naive, and at worst, pathological denial (something commonly found in cults).
quote: Not from what I've seen. But you are free to disagree if you wish.
That's real Christian of you.
quote: I thought the baby in the nursery comment you made was exactly that. Why get on their case if they think you would be better off coming to their baby? Isn't that what all religions think, that they're on the right track? At least doctrinally, I see this clearly.
The "right track" is a far cry from TWI's absolutist theology, and you oughta KNOW that. Oughtn't you?
quote:I think it means they wish to keep the goodies of TWI, and abandon the errors.
I don't believe they can be trusted to make the distinction between "goodies" and "errors." Their prior cult behavior should be presumed to have surpassed simple bad judgment, and because of its psychological component, that same behavior should be presumed recidivistic (you can pretty well bet they will do it again, in some way, shape or form). They should find a new line of work.
quote:We can hold them to that standard. I think they've done a good job, so far, but they're not perfect, we know that too. But I just don't see them repeating the same mistakes as twi-2.
How do you know YOU aren't making the same mistakes as TWI-2? VPW's "errors" weren't exactly hard to spot, if you were willing to look, and then willing to speak. EVERYBODY thought they were, so what happened?
quote:It's a great statement, isn't it? Originally made by an intelligent GS poster. I'd like to leave it alone and don't want to change or revise it; it really speaks for itself, and needs no interpretation or defense from me. You are free to disagree if you wish.
I don't know what the original context may have been, but on it's own it's meaningless.
Of course they went back into cult-running mode, Satori. (Welcome back, BTW.) They're fired from TWI, the only decent job they've had. They think, "What will I do now? How will I earn a living? What am I good at?"
Well, JL was good at leading a religious group. What else was he gonna do, flip burgers or deliver newspapers? Then he couldn't wear those spiffy three-piece suits....
Of course they went back into cult-running mode, Satori.
So what does this say about those ingenuous ex-Wayfers who flock to him still, as if The Way International were a bad dream, and they were Dorothy, back from Oz, home in the loving arms of Aunt Em? Haven't they learned anything? Should TWI declare amnesty and forgive them their trespasses? Seems to me they would run, not walk, back to the old fold. TWI may take a lesson here from CES.
Good question Satori...Now that you mention it,I wonder if the way has some sort of a re-instatement,or a 'dismark and unavoid' welcome-back-to-the-way,we-missed-you-while-you-were-out policy in place...
Second, I'm not getting on CES's case or condemning them because they "think they are right." I am pointing out the "viral" nature of CES's origins, and evidence that CES shares much of TWI's "DNA.
Ok. Agreed. The origins were corrupt, they were flawed, and they were a "broken cistern".
Now -- my question is simply this. Have you listened to any of the CES teachings? Have you logged on recently to www.truthortradition.com to see what they have to say, or have you logged on to www.biblicalunitarian.com to see what is being said about the trinity??
If you have, great. You are then qualified to make these statements. If you haven't, then don't criticize. I have a friend who wrote a book entitled "The Ultimate Heresy -- The Inerrancy of the Bible". I took issue with him about the title, and to his credit, he told me -- "If you haven't read it, you have no place discussing it." He was right, and now that I have read it, we can, and do discuss it.
Same thing with you. I don't know if you have followed any of the CES teaching tapes, or if you have even heard any of them, but I am getting the impression you are making a "blanket statement" about a group, and are basing it on the "viral nature of their beginnings".
I for one, have had a positive experience with CES, and because of them, I would NEVER run back to twi. Wierwille Road, and Highway 29 will never, ever been seen through my windshield again.
"Flawed beginnings" don't neccesarily constitute "flawed results", as you are seemingly so quick to point out. Given some of the ********* that has happened to me in my own life, those "flawed beginnings" that have personally happened to me, have proved to be a pretty dynamic "springboard", lifting me up and out of where I was, and into something that I always dreamed of being.
quote:"Flawed beginnings" don't neccesarily constitute "flawed results", as you are seemingly so quick to point out. Given some of the ********* that has happened to me in my own life, those "flawed beginnings" that have personally happened to me, have proved to be a pretty dynamic "springboard", lifting me up and out of where I was, and into something that I always dreamed of being.
yes they ran the gravy train of rescue out of the cult when they got fired. (read shazs Post) like a vacum for the fallen leafs on the lawn they had the machine and the bag to collect.
I suppose if it has to be an "approved" teacher CES will fall in line ok. they are part of the borg we are safe. It means never having to look at what you think about God for yourself on a very personal level and again eating the pile on the plate set for you by a leader you trust .
In detail please explain why exactly ? oh the bible verses that is it or because he say he is the one that really loves you .
very safe very confortable and many are in the group agreeing along and that is a cult brain dream in and of itself. a "we" program cant be wrong. can it?
must not allow doubt or independence to creep in I know THAT has to be wrong as death itself or is that death TO SELF?
Honestly I think people are still afraid of not belonging to a cult and if they had to leave twi, at least CES will cover their *** just in case . haha seriously .
Good question Satori...Now that you mention it,I wonder if the way has some sort of a re-instatement,or a 'dismark and unavoid' welcome-back-to-the-way,we-missed-you-while-you-were-out policy in place...
Simon, this could be your own ticket back, and a special (big, spiritual bonus) ministry! You could be like Saint Peter at at the gates of New Knoxville Rd. and Highway 29, deciding who is worthy of getting back in. You could sit in a modified toll booth, and when the applicant gives you their free will, sound mind and better judgment, you raise the gate and let them back in to Paradise.
(I bet a few people said to themselves, "Hey, that's not accurate!" when they read "Paradise." Gotcha.)
So Simon, if you like it and apply to Rosalie for the job, I'm sure Greasespot Cafe management could give you a good recommendation.
You're right Shazzy - they didn't know how to do anything else. And not just JAL.
I remember when the fhit hit the fan back in the late 80's. There were guys from the single digit Corps' who had: gone to college, got witnessed to, took the class, went to summer school and then went right into the Corps. Some never even finished college. The most they'd ever had were summer jobs (if any). They didn't know how to do anything except run a branch/limb or they'd headed up a dept. at HQ's. They only knew how to be bosses. They never had to earn respect - it was automatically ordained to them with their "reverend" title.
One particular guy I knew hadn't worked a real job in 13 years. He was in his 40's and quit his TWI job after the PoP crap. When he went to find work - he was competing with all these new graduatuates with MBA degrees who were 20 years younger than he was and who would take less money because they didn't have a wife and 3 kids to support. It was rough.
Remember - the guys who were the early leaders lived quite well. I know a particular Limb Leader who lived in a 6,000 square foot home in a very upscale part of his community. TWI paid the rent, utilities and gave them their furniture and autos. Now, what kind of salary would you have to make in the corporate world to get that kind of deal?
There were a lot of leaders like that -- who had counted the horn of plenty money at a large meeting, who knew what amount was on all the blue forms from their branch or limb. They knew if they were dynamic enough and had gotten a sub-cult following of their own in their area - that they could start their own little ministry and live off the abs formerly given to the Way. It was an easy ride. I'm suprised more of them didn't do it.
Second, I'm not getting on CES's case or condemning them because they "think they are right." I am pointing out the "viral" nature of CES's origins, and evidence that CES shares much of TWI's "DNA.
Amen. And, IMO, even if a spin-off disagrees with what TWI taught, the fact they they're using TWI's doctrine to show what they disagree with makes them as much of a TWI clone as the Wierwille worshipping spin-offs are. (does that make sense?)
And really - when you look at all of them, not just CES - aren't the people who are involved mostly ex-Way folks? Just like the leaders who didn't know how to do anything else - the ex-followers didn't think they had an option of going to anything else that didn't resemble TWI.
quote:Amen. And, IMO, even if a spin-off disagrees with what TWI taught, the fact they they're using TWI's doctrine to show what they disagree with makes them as much of a TWI clone as the Wierwille worshipping spin-offs are. (does that make sense?)
It doesn't make sense to me, could you elaborate further.
Saying CES is a TWI clone is not enough to prove it's an evil outfit. Because lots of folks still believe that TWI had godly things about it. If the clones copy or imitate the godly things, and abandon the ungodly things, how can you call it evil? I don't see where they are going wrong. In fact, I think they may be an improvement.
quote: And really - when you look at all of them, not just CES - aren't the people who are involved mostly ex-Way folks?
I would think this is true for now, but let's say they remain for years and years, then that won't be the case. People of whatever background may choose whatever level of involvement that suits them. I get their free newsletters and sometimes, buy some tapes. That's it. No strain, strife or struggle.
I also went for 3-4 years to an Independent Assembly of God type place after i had been thro some way teachings. This place started good and the last straw was almost the same thing - Adultry at the top coupled with an aritocratic governing way and assuptions near the end that there way of doing things was significantly better than others.
There is that one verse in philip that talks about preaching Christ in pretense or in truth.
I think I have found great benefit from both experiences with the 2 different groups. I prefer to poke the holes in the stuff that was terrible that you couldnt wear, and find consolation in the rest. TWI people are very analytical in nature. I think theres some really good stuff to deal with here when we move on.
quote: It doesn't make sense to me, could you elaborate further.
Saying CES is a TWI clone is not enough to prove it's an evil outfit. Because lots of folks still believe that TWI had godly things about it. If the clones copy or imitate the godly things, and abandon the ungodly things, how can you call it evil? I don't see where they are going wrong. In fact, I think they may be an improvement.
First - I never said it was evil. CES exists because of TWI. Think about it. So does CFF, Geer's thing, Dale Sides ministry and so many others who are all "borrowing" from what they learned in TWI. These guys didn't come up with this stuff themselves. Whether they've taken what VP taught and torn it apart, or whether they agree with everything that was taught and just didn't like Craig - they all flow from the same body of water. They may have taken different directions - but the source is the same. Again - they're not necessarily evil - or maybe they are - I'm not involved with any of them so I don't know.
As far as new people go - I have been in touch with people who are involved in three of the major TWI spin-offs. I have asked them if there are any new people - NBW people - who come to their fellowships. ALL of them told me "a few, but most of them are all ex-Way". Some of these people have been involved in their spin-off groups for "years and years" (CES started in the late 80's, CFF in the mid-90's).
I've gotten email from people who are moving to Tampa wanting to know who we fellowship with. My reply is usually to send them to the CFF group made up of 100% ex-Way people. From what I hear - that's pretty much the way this particular fellowship gets any "new" people.
CES WANT folks who never been way heehaa they are so much less of a hassle what with questions and some knowledge and all. just love man .
they have tapped the ex-twi market most have stuck or left by now. but it is a pesky thing to have a monkey on your back like twi so it isnt as smooth as twi recruitment once was. bummer .
you just do not get it do you?
no problem if your happy and you know it clap your hands( and give me some money even a little bit counts to us of course we are not like the BIG ministry )( yet)( getting there with ya bro!) but we will and can be if it serves you well ya know and our life style of a leader as Hope says very well.
it is what the people want and they are here to give it to ya!!
yeah they ask for money, but all of those groups ask for money. ...
when I go to the supermarket to buy milk and cookies and twinkies, they got those beggars ready to pounce on you when you exit the door asking for money all the time. i'm sick of it especially when i go shopping.
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sky4it
You may have found the long lost book of the bible that has everyone of us in it. Whew! Its all written down about all of us in the book of the Prophet Iddo. 2 Chronicles 13:22
It's the things yah did and the things you didnt do in the book of the prophet Iddo. I did I did I did or I really didnt do in the book of the prophet Iddo. What did I actually do? I did and didnt do do, in the book of the prophet Iddo.
Kinda makes that babes and suckling thing word eh?
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oldiesman
I still don't see the point in getting on CES's case, or condemning them, cause they think they're right. All religions think they're right. ...
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satori001
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satori001
Oldiesman,
First of all, how do you know that "all religions think they're right?" I don't see that. That's a ridiculous and foolish statement. The most common denominations claim some proximity to the truth, and they're grateful for that much, but only the fundies believe they possess the only truth, and only the cults (if there is a fine distinction) think they monopolize the most essential (obscure and special, which is to say, mind-numbing) truths.
Second, I'm not getting on CES's case or condemning them because they "think they are right." I am pointing out the "viral" nature of CES's origins, and evidence that CES shares much of TWI's "DNA." This is to say, if you get in bed with CES, use "protection," or you may contract a case of the TWI'ts. Don't become a TWIt all over again.
Regarding your quote, "TWI has no power over you except that which your actions allow," what do one's "actions" have to do with TWI's potential influence? Wouldn't "thoughts" be a better choice of words? And what thoughts (or actions, if you insist), might ward off TWI's evil powers? Just wondering.
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pjroberge
An interesting definition of what a cult is comes by way of Captain Robert Snow. Captain Snow oversees the Robbery and Homicide division of the Indianapolis, Indiana police department, and has been a policeman for over 38 years.
He is also a well-respected author with 7 books on the market. His latest book, "Dangerous Cults" (ISBN # 0-275-98052-9 www.Robertsnow.com) is about cultic groups from a law enforcement perspective.
Captain Snow labeled TWI as a cult and TWI's activities are prominently mentioned and discussed in chapters 13 & 14. Captain Snow states:
"But far from regular, orthodox religions, religious cults, using my definition, can be fairly easy to spot because, along with being involved in some type of criminal activity, they offer their members a certain ticket to heaven as part of a group especially appointed and chosen by God." (Page 41 bottom paragraph)
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oldiesman
Satori
Of course I'm just rendering an opinion, but that's what I've seen through life's experience, and just plain old common sense. Folks tend to think they are right, especially Christian folks. Nothing wrong with that. Not from what I've seen. But you are free to disagree if you wish. I thought the baby in the nursery comment you made was exactly that. Why get on their case if they think you would be better off coming to their baby? Isn't that what all religions think, that they're on the right track? At least doctrinally, I see this clearly. I think you are being presumptuous and saying things we don't know yet and haven't yet been proven. CES (John Lynn) has stated they wish to eat the fish, and spit out the bones. What does that mean? I think it means they wish to keep the goodies of TWI, and abandon the errors. We can hold them to that standard. I think they've done a good job, so far, but they're not perfect, we know that too. But I just don't see them repeating the same mistakes as twi-2. If they have, you are free to point them out and argue your point. It's a great statement, isn't it? Originally made by an intelligent GS poster. I'd like to leave it alone and don't want to change or revise it; it really speaks for itself, and needs no interpretation or defense from me. You are free to disagree if you wish.Link to comment
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satori001
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shazdancer
Of course they went back into cult-running mode, Satori. (Welcome back, BTW.) They're fired from TWI, the only decent job they've had. They think, "What will I do now? How will I earn a living? What am I good at?"
Well, JL was good at leading a religious group. What else was he gonna do, flip burgers or deliver newspapers? Then he couldn't wear those spiffy three-piece suits....
Regards,
Shaz
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excathedra
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satori001
Regards...
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simonzelotes
Good question Satori...Now that you mention it,I wonder if the way has some sort of a re-instatement,or a 'dismark and unavoid' welcome-back-to-the-way,we-missed-you-while-you-were-out policy in place...
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dmiller
Ok. Agreed. The origins were corrupt, they were flawed, and they were a "broken cistern".
Now -- my question is simply this. Have you listened to any of the CES teachings? Have you logged on recently to www.truthortradition.com to see what they have to say, or have you logged on to www.biblicalunitarian.com to see what is being said about the trinity??
If you have, great. You are then qualified to make these statements. If you haven't, then don't criticize. I have a friend who wrote a book entitled "The Ultimate Heresy -- The Inerrancy of the Bible". I took issue with him about the title, and to his credit, he told me -- "If you haven't read it, you have no place discussing it." He was right, and now that I have read it, we can, and do discuss it.
Same thing with you. I don't know if you have followed any of the CES teaching tapes, or if you have even heard any of them, but I am getting the impression you are making a "blanket statement" about a group, and are basing it on the "viral nature of their beginnings".
I for one, have had a positive experience with CES, and because of them, I would NEVER run back to twi. Wierwille Road, and Highway 29 will never, ever been seen through my windshield again.
"Flawed beginnings" don't neccesarily constitute "flawed results", as you are seemingly so quick to point out. Given some of the ********* that has happened to me in my own life, those "flawed beginnings" that have personally happened to me, have proved to be a pretty dynamic "springboard", lifting me up and out of where I was, and into something that I always dreamed of being.
CES is no different.
But hey -- T'is a free country.
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Sunesis
Satori - great to see you back again!
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oldiesman
Good point dmiller, thanks.
:)-->
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mj412
Satori
Hi ya! I will be nice I promise .
Dmiller
a springboard out of what exactly? twi I assume.
yes they ran the gravy train of rescue out of the cult when they got fired. (read shazs Post) like a vacum for the fallen leafs on the lawn they had the machine and the bag to collect.
I suppose if it has to be an "approved" teacher CES will fall in line ok. they are part of the borg we are safe. It means never having to look at what you think about God for yourself on a very personal level and again eating the pile on the plate set for you by a leader you trust .
In detail please explain why exactly ? oh the bible verses that is it or because he say he is the one that really loves you .
very safe very confortable and many are in the group agreeing along and that is a cult brain dream in and of itself. a "we" program cant be wrong. can it?
must not allow doubt or independence to creep in I know THAT has to be wrong as death itself or is that death TO SELF?
Honestly I think people are still afraid of not belonging to a cult and if they had to leave twi, at least CES will cover their *** just in case . haha seriously .
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satori001
(I bet a few people said to themselves, "Hey, that's not accurate!" when they read "Paradise." Gotcha.)
So Simon, if you like it and apply to Rosalie for the job, I'm sure Greasespot Cafe management could give you a good recommendation.
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satori001
Shaz, Sunesis, mj412,
Thanks.
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Hope R.
You're right Shazzy - they didn't know how to do anything else. And not just JAL.
I remember when the fhit hit the fan back in the late 80's. There were guys from the single digit Corps' who had: gone to college, got witnessed to, took the class, went to summer school and then went right into the Corps. Some never even finished college. The most they'd ever had were summer jobs (if any). They didn't know how to do anything except run a branch/limb or they'd headed up a dept. at HQ's. They only knew how to be bosses. They never had to earn respect - it was automatically ordained to them with their "reverend" title.
One particular guy I knew hadn't worked a real job in 13 years. He was in his 40's and quit his TWI job after the PoP crap. When he went to find work - he was competing with all these new graduatuates with MBA degrees who were 20 years younger than he was and who would take less money because they didn't have a wife and 3 kids to support. It was rough.
Remember - the guys who were the early leaders lived quite well. I know a particular Limb Leader who lived in a 6,000 square foot home in a very upscale part of his community. TWI paid the rent, utilities and gave them their furniture and autos. Now, what kind of salary would you have to make in the corporate world to get that kind of deal?
There were a lot of leaders like that -- who had counted the horn of plenty money at a large meeting, who knew what amount was on all the blue forms from their branch or limb. They knew if they were dynamic enough and had gotten a sub-cult following of their own in their area - that they could start their own little ministry and live off the abs formerly given to the Way. It was an easy ride. I'm suprised more of them didn't do it.
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Hope R.
Amen. And, IMO, even if a spin-off disagrees with what TWI taught, the fact they they're using TWI's doctrine to show what they disagree with makes them as much of a TWI clone as the Wierwille worshipping spin-offs are. (does that make sense?)
And really - when you look at all of them, not just CES - aren't the people who are involved mostly ex-Way folks? Just like the leaders who didn't know how to do anything else - the ex-followers didn't think they had an option of going to anything else that didn't resemble TWI.
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oldiesman
Saying CES is a TWI clone is not enough to prove it's an evil outfit. Because lots of folks still believe that TWI had godly things about it. If the clones copy or imitate the godly things, and abandon the ungodly things, how can you call it evil? I don't see where they are going wrong. In fact, I think they may be an improvement.
I would think this is true for now, but let's say they remain for years and years, then that won't be the case. People of whatever background may choose whatever level of involvement that suits them. I get their free newsletters and sometimes, buy some tapes. That's it. No strain, strife or struggle.Link to comment
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sky4it
Guys:
I also went for 3-4 years to an Independent Assembly of God type place after i had been thro some way teachings. This place started good and the last straw was almost the same thing - Adultry at the top coupled with an aritocratic governing way and assuptions near the end that there way of doing things was significantly better than others.
There is that one verse in philip that talks about preaching Christ in pretense or in truth.
I think I have found great benefit from both experiences with the 2 different groups. I prefer to poke the holes in the stuff that was terrible that you couldnt wear, and find consolation in the rest. TWI people are very analytical in nature. I think theres some really good stuff to deal with here when we move on.
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Hope R.
First - I never said it was evil. CES exists because of TWI. Think about it. So does CFF, Geer's thing, Dale Sides ministry and so many others who are all "borrowing" from what they learned in TWI. These guys didn't come up with this stuff themselves. Whether they've taken what VP taught and torn it apart, or whether they agree with everything that was taught and just didn't like Craig - they all flow from the same body of water. They may have taken different directions - but the source is the same. Again - they're not necessarily evil - or maybe they are - I'm not involved with any of them so I don't know.
As far as new people go - I have been in touch with people who are involved in three of the major TWI spin-offs. I have asked them if there are any new people - NBW people - who come to their fellowships. ALL of them told me "a few, but most of them are all ex-Way". Some of these people have been involved in their spin-off groups for "years and years" (CES started in the late 80's, CFF in the mid-90's).
I've gotten email from people who are moving to Tampa wanting to know who we fellowship with. My reply is usually to send them to the CFF group made up of 100% ex-Way people. From what I hear - that's pretty much the way this particular fellowship gets any "new" people.
Hope that explains it better.
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mj412
Om
CES WANT folks who never been way heehaa they are so much less of a hassle what with questions and some knowledge and all. just love man .
they have tapped the ex-twi market most have stuck or left by now. but it is a pesky thing to have a monkey on your back like twi so it isnt as smooth as twi recruitment once was. bummer .
you just do not get it do you?
no problem if your happy and you know it clap your hands( and give me some money even a little bit counts to us of course we are not like the BIG ministry )( yet)( getting there with ya bro!) but we will and can be if it serves you well ya know and our life style of a leader as Hope says very well.
it is what the people want and they are here to give it to ya!!
bless their program and desires.
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oldiesman
yeah they ask for money, but all of those groups ask for money. ...
when I go to the supermarket to buy milk and cookies and twinkies, they got those beggars ready to pounce on you when you exit the door asking for money all the time. i'm sick of it especially when i go shopping.
money money money, it's part of our lifestyle
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