I saw this quote somewhere on your site. It is a classic and needs no further explanation. Ha!
"In my heart there were only two men who could have handled the Presidency, you and Craig. Right now there is only one man who can save the Ministry, that’s you..."
Alleged statement made by VPW to CG, of course revealed after VPW died and written by the hand of our dear savior, CG. :D-->
It made me laugh a lot again just like some of us laughed privately among ourselves the first time it was read. Am I right, excathedra?
That's on one of my oldest articles, "Drawing Swords". I went over the Passing of the Patriarch paper, which I felt was a joke. I quoted CG all over the place. Back then I was still trying to defend VPW though, so some people might like that. But if I had written it today, I doubt my defense of VPW would be there. So much learned over a few years checking so much out.
quote:Sometime in February of 1987, a man by the name of John Lynn along with his wife Pat Lynn, Ralph Dubofsky, Robert Belt, Thomas Reahard openly charged the Way International Board of Trustees of not operating in a godly manner and essentially ignoring the spiritual charge they were appointed for in taking the offices they held.
Steve, do you have this paper? I've been wanting to read it for some time, hopefully you have it or know somebody that does?
I first encountered Steve when someone posted a link to his website here on gscafe. I e-mailed him with some tips, which he took to heart. Through his site, he helped me see where I was being too hard on the past. But he has always been incredibly honest in his approach, appreciating whatever good we got out of our TWI experience while being willing to see that it wasn't all wine and roses, or milk and honey.
I came into TWI in September 1980 when I was 27. I am 51 now. I had five years with VPW before watching LCM really take off. I had 12 years before finally leaving in 1992. PFAL in 1982, Intermediate in 1982, Advanced Class 1986 at Emporia, and Way Corps (Apprentice) in 1991 to 1992 before I realized the legalism was so heavy and persecution so big and my life so down and out, I finally figured something was wrong. The article on my website, the one I may update due to WordWolf's suggestion, removing praise of VPW pretty much, an old article, explains my experiences in the Way or TWI. The article is called Drawing Swords and is about 32 pages long or so. As for me, I have been married to my wife Debbie for almost five years now and have two step-sons, Matthew and Scott. We will be selling our house to move out to the country where Deb's family is.
Thanks for writing. You know, that paper Lynn and the rest of the now CES staff sent to the BOT of TWI I do not have, but I do believe it can be possibly be picked up at certain sites, maybe at pjroberge's sites, or John Juedes Messiah 7 site, or Trancenet. Not sure. I'll see if I can find it and let you know. Thanks.
Is that you FB? Anyway, Matt and Scott are better off. Scott's now in the process of being treated for his mentally challenged status and also his bipolar. I have to accompany him to the SSI office on Wednesday with his caseworker and also arrange new housing for him. Matt is still Matt, but he is out of trouble. Debbie and I still pray heavily for both of them and it is working. We so appreciate your prayers, Lightside. Incidently, if you are FB, I'd like to dedicate the following article to you at Christian Heritage Online. You taught Deb and I a lot on healing and I took it as best I could through the four gospels and the book of Acts. The article is Healing and Miracles In The Bible God Bless you, Lightside.
I've picked some ideas from your articles, too, but shared them mostly at fellowship because I didn't want to copy your material. I would like to quote some of it in the future but wasn't sure how you would feel about that. The articles in the "To Wit" series are so much to ponder. A lot of spiritual edification in those articles.
I'll probably quote articles and post links as I do with others. But there may be some I'd rather not paraphrase as what you have written shouldn't be changed as I can't find a way to write it better without it losing quality. So I might ask in the future if I might post one of your articles on the site.
My site has used up a lot of space already and I have to expand the size of it on my server. Some photographs I have may have to come down until that time. Your PFAL Review is really fascinating and I'd rather not paraphrase or change anything about it, plus some articles I liked which would benefit the readers of my site.
Steve, thanks for trying to find that paper for me. I understand it's 37 pages or something? I haven't seen it on any of the websites, but somebody's gotta have a copy.
The PFAL Review is not really a PFAL Review, and should not be treated as such. A true PFAL review (in my opinion) would have plenty of good things to say. The PFAL review I posted had a very specific objective. If that's not kept in mind, I'd just look like a nitpicker with nothing good to say.
BTW: Thanks for the compliments. My ego is going to go take a nap now, as it always does after a good meal. :)-->
Steve, thanks for trying to find that paper for me. I understand it's 37 pages or something? I haven't seen it on any of the websites, but somebody's gotta have a copy.
You're right Oldies, I have a copy of it here at the house. It is 37 pages long, written (dated) Feb. 26, 1987, and signed by
John and Pat Lynn,
Tom Reahard,
Ralph Dubofsky, and
Robert Belt.
If you are interested, my e-mail addy is in my profile. I can have copies made, and send you one. Put Oldies, or Greasespot, or something like that in the title so I don't delete your letter.
:)--> (can't believe I still have this thing, but I do.)
Thanks for the compliment on Drawing Swords. dmiller left an online message for you to email him concerning that paper you wanted. I have also asked him for the same paper. I wanted it for my archives.
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Raf
Knock me over with a feather!
You're Eagle?!?!?!?!
I'll be dag-burned!
HA!
Wow.
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Tom Strange
...but I've seen posts from SteveSpencer and Eagle!... how can that be???
wait... maybe that was Steve Lortz.... hmmm... I'm confused...
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igotout
I saw this quote somewhere on your site. It is a classic and needs no further explanation. Ha!
"In my heart there were only two men who could have handled the Presidency, you and Craig. Right now there is only one man who can save the Ministry, that’s you..."
Alleged statement made by VPW to CG, of course revealed after VPW died and written by the hand of our dear savior, CG.
:D-->
It made me laugh a lot again just like some of us laughed privately among ourselves the first time it was read. Am I right, excathedra?
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Eagle
That's on one of my oldest articles, "Drawing Swords". I went over the Passing of the Patriarch paper, which I felt was a joke. I quoted CG all over the place. Back then I was still trying to defend VPW though, so some people might like that. But if I had written it today, I doubt my defense of VPW would be there. So much learned over a few years checking so much out.
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GarthP2000
A sure lesson that is in sore need of learning by some staunch VPW defenders here, no doubt.
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JustThinking
Steve,
It seems people here know you. (At least Raffy does) Could you tell me a little about yourself as I came into TWI after VPWs death?
Enjoyed your site so far, btw. There is a lot there so it will likely take me some time to get through it.
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oldiesman
Steve, do you have this paper? I've been wanting to read it for some time, hopefully you have it or know somebody that does?
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Raf
I first encountered Steve when someone posted a link to his website here on gscafe. I e-mailed him with some tips, which he took to heart. Through his site, he helped me see where I was being too hard on the past. But he has always been incredibly honest in his approach, appreciating whatever good we got out of our TWI experience while being willing to see that it wasn't all wine and roses, or milk and honey.
I admire him greatly.
I just had no idea he was "Eagle."
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WordWolf
Thus the value in allowing us some anonymity at the GSC,
for those of us who prefer not to bring in our baggage.
Or, those who answer faster to our screenname than our legal
name, as the case may be.
========
Hello, Eagle-Steve, however you'd like to be addressed.
You know where the coffee is already, help yourself.
Perhaps, should you ever have spare time (I've heard of this
"spare time" thing somewhere), you might consider updating
that old article, and letting the old and new sit side by
side, allowing both to be viewed, and the differences also
seen. Or perhaps not.
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Eagle
I think WordWolf is right. I probably should update those articles that are old. I've only removed a few. I think that is a great idea.
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Lightside
That is you, Steve Spencer?????
Steve, how are scott and Matt doing?
Still prayin' for them and you and that pretty girl of yours.
EVERYDAY, BRO
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Eagle
Hello JT:
I came into TWI in September 1980 when I was 27. I am 51 now. I had five years with VPW before watching LCM really take off. I had 12 years before finally leaving in 1992. PFAL in 1982, Intermediate in 1982, Advanced Class 1986 at Emporia, and Way Corps (Apprentice) in 1991 to 1992 before I realized the legalism was so heavy and persecution so big and my life so down and out, I finally figured something was wrong. The article on my website, the one I may update due to WordWolf's suggestion, removing praise of VPW pretty much, an old article, explains my experiences in the Way or TWI. The article is called Drawing Swords and is about 32 pages long or so. As for me, I have been married to my wife Debbie for almost five years now and have two step-sons, Matthew and Scott. We will be selling our house to move out to the country where Deb's family is.
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Eagle
Oldiesman:
Thanks for writing. You know, that paper Lynn and the rest of the now CES staff sent to the BOT of TWI I do not have, but I do believe it can be possibly be picked up at certain sites, maybe at pjroberge's sites, or John Juedes Messiah 7 site, or Trancenet. Not sure. I'll see if I can find it and let you know. Thanks.
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Eagle
Lightside:
Is that you FB? Anyway, Matt and Scott are better off. Scott's now in the process of being treated for his mentally challenged status and also his bipolar. I have to accompany him to the SSI office on Wednesday with his caseworker and also arrange new housing for him. Matt is still Matt, but he is out of trouble. Debbie and I still pray heavily for both of them and it is working. We so appreciate your prayers, Lightside. Incidently, if you are FB, I'd like to dedicate the following article to you at Christian Heritage Online. You taught Deb and I a lot on healing and I took it as best I could through the four gospels and the book of Acts. The article is Healing and Miracles In The Bible God Bless you, Lightside.
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Eagle
Raf:
I've picked some ideas from your articles, too, but shared them mostly at fellowship because I didn't want to copy your material. I would like to quote some of it in the future but wasn't sure how you would feel about that. The articles in the "To Wit" series are so much to ponder. A lot of spiritual edification in those articles.
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Raf
Feel free to quote at will, post links, whatever you'd like.
If you'd prefer to post it on your site directly, let me know and I'll send you the articles by MSWord (easier to copy).
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Eagle
Thanks Raf.
I'll probably quote articles and post links as I do with others. But there may be some I'd rather not paraphrase as what you have written shouldn't be changed as I can't find a way to write it better without it losing quality. So I might ask in the future if I might post one of your articles on the site.
My site has used up a lot of space already and I have to expand the size of it on my server. Some photographs I have may have to come down until that time. Your PFAL Review is really fascinating and I'd rather not paraphrase or change anything about it, plus some articles I liked which would benefit the readers of my site.
Again, thanks.
Steve
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oldiesman
Steve, thanks for trying to find that paper for me. I understand it's 37 pages or something? I haven't seen it on any of the websites, but somebody's gotta have a copy.
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Raf
Steve,
The PFAL Review is not really a PFAL Review, and should not be treated as such. A true PFAL review (in my opinion) would have plenty of good things to say. The PFAL review I posted had a very specific objective. If that's not kept in mind, I'd just look like a nitpicker with nothing good to say.
BTW: Thanks for the compliments. My ego is going to go take a nap now, as it always does after a good meal.
:)-->
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oldiesman
Steve, your "Drawing Swords" article is very very good. Thanks.
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Eagle
Raf:
I'll not call it PFAL Review then. I'll just call it what you call it. There is a lot to consider in what you have written.
Oldiesman, I'll see if I can drum up that paper.
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dmiller
You're right Oldies, I have a copy of it here at the house. It is 37 pages long, written (dated) Feb. 26, 1987, and signed by
John and Pat Lynn,
Tom Reahard,
Ralph Dubofsky, and
Robert Belt.
If you are interested, my e-mail addy is in my profile. I can have copies made, and send you one. Put Oldies, or Greasespot, or something like that in the title so I don't delete your letter.
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Eagle
Oldiesman:
Thanks for the compliment on Drawing Swords. dmiller left an online message for you to email him concerning that paper you wanted. I have also asked him for the same paper. I wanted it for my archives.
God Bless, Man!
Steve Spencer
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oldiesman
Thanks Steve.
Thanks dmiller! I just emailed you my name and address. Thanks so much.
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