This topic has come up time and again on Waydale, and the different incarnations of Greasespot. There have been many threads on this topic. Sorry I didn't elaborate on this particular one. But I have done so in the past, time and time again.
But my Momentous experience is but a mere blip on the radar screen of my life, and to take the time to rethink, revisit, re-explain, whatever, has to wait til I retire, and maybe write my memoirs. I just don't have the mental energy to go there again.
So please forgive me. I will now try to gracefully bow out of the coversation. I am so sorry I said anything.
Gosh, I actually went to Momentous. I enjoyed it. Thought it was cool. I suppose if somebody thought I came out of it a "hard to be with-pain in the butt," they probly would've let me know by now. It's only been like, uh, let me see, 13 years?
Maybe it's one of those things that is like anything else in life, you make of it what you will, and the person you come out being, is who you were when you went it. Sorta like the cult.
Careful Ex10 - admitting that you actually gained something by taking this class can be dangerous.
Hubby took that class after he saw some very positive changes in a friend of his (also x-twi). He wasn't told to take it or asked to - he just wanted to check somethings out for himself. Hubby is not a lemming or a "joiner' - he follows no one, really. Anyhow, he used to post on Waydale until there was a thread like this. He and another poster talked about how they got some positive things out of it, but Hubby mentioned that he didn't "witness" Momentus, or any of that. He agreed it wouldn't be for everyone. He even conceeded that his experience may have not been the norm. Hubby even told me, "This is NOT for you," as he knew I was a bundle of nerves after my TWI experience.
Well, he promptly received some nasty posts in light of his post, then some PMs threatening that if it was ever found out where he taught school that they (the twits sending the PMs) would contact his school where he worked to report his actions and that he took this class! (I should clarify that Hubby is a public school teacher. In one of his posts about the class, he mentioned that his experience helped him in his profession as seeing how people perceived him - and he changed accordingly so that he would be better accepted and more approachable - not really a bad thing for a teacher to do, don't you think?)
So... although some of the people who have taken this class can be real whack jobs, it seems that those who are deadset against it can be just as bad... At best, these threads are always good for some high drama.
Yeah, Chaz, I hear you. I remember what happened to your hubby at Waydale. It was horrible. I also got some pretty nasty pms and my email got bombarded with pornographic stuff. (Not necessarily because of that thread only, though.) So much so that I had to change my email address. My husband was sooooo mad. Obviously, this was the days before the good fliters and spam blockers all.
Yeah, for some reason the anti-Momentous people can get pretty rabid.
I once heard of a guy who was really into "self-help" sort of therapies.
He was riding on a bus one day and noticed the guy next to him was constantly taking little brown pills.
"What are those pills you're taking?" he asked.
"Oh, these? These are "Smart" pills. I take them all the time to make me more intelligent. Would you like to try some?"
Well, being as it sounded like a good thing to do, the guy tried out the pills himself.
The two of them were gobbling them up when the fellow finally remarked "Gee, you know these look like rabbit turds."
To which the other replied "SEE! You're getting smarter already!"
There's lots of stuff promoted as being tremendously beneficial - and ALWAYS with numeroous testimonials as to it's efficaciousness.
Personally I have about an equal amount of things that I will never partake in, simply because they strike me as dorky. Scientology, astrology, new-age medicinal cures, Wicca, synchronicity, etc. etc. etc....
If the basics of what you hear about something are so diametrically opposed to what you've come to regard as sensible and worthwhile, do you really have time to venture down ALL of those (possibly) idiotic alleys?
Maybe I'll take a real chance and just try to muddle through life without the help of the enlightened gurus of pop-psychology and woo-woo metaphysics. My loss, I guess...
Just to clarify - Ex10, I did not take the class. My friends ( all four - well seven in total) that took Momentus all said that although it was a very challenging weekend,(in that they had to confront things in themselves they had been avoiding) -it was a positive experience.
My problem was that with the exception on ONE person they all tried to act as "trainers" thought they werejust fresh and new out of the class. (And yes I know that the admonition was to not go out and try to act that way - but then again we were all told to have people wait until the 12th session to have them speak in tongues.) They were confrontational and only honest when they had to get something off of their chest - but there was not quid pro quo.
Now, this (the above) is the only personal experience I have regarding Momentus. It is not an experience from the seminar itself - but rather with the aftermath. I repeat - I NEVER TOOK MOMENTUS! BUT my (MY!) experience with the folks that did was less than positive.
I'd say that this experience it valid. AND I repeat - these folks liked the experience. One couple started the training to become trainers. Then they quit because they stated that their had been some changes in the Momentus group that made them decide to never even recommend it to anyone.
So - the Momentus experience you received may have been completely different from that of others.
I'm sure that there are as many views on this as there are in politics or religion.....I'm glad that it seemed to be a good thing for you - at least that is what you have implied.
Gosh Ex10- I hope you do not think because I shared my first hand experience of the person I knew, before entering Momentus and after, that it was somehow an attack on you.
I would not do that to you. If you had a good experience then you did, nobody’s bad experience will wipe out the goodness of what you experienced. I still am glad I took PFAL and all the BAD that happened after, still does not touch the great things that happened to me, while in that class for the first time. I am glad your experience was sweet.
Just seems like people are asking what is was like, and this woman told me and I shared it. That would be second hand, but my very first hand experience was that of a "bad change" in her.
She and her husband invited me to a dinner with two x-twi who were now "trainers" in Momentus (people who apparently sit in the back of the class and take notes & stuff.)
I told all concerned, sure I would like to get together with them but I was not going to take Momentus, nor did I want to go to a dinner promoting it.
We got to dinner and about 10 minutes into it, the dinner became a platform to push me and my spouse into taking the class.
We left.
Later, when the friend of mine tried to push me into the class for about the 12th time and I told her, "NO," she told me I was sick just like Crxig Mxrtindale.
Now, this girl had never been in TWI and all she knew of it was from me, who was her friend. And some SPLINTER people, to whom I had introduced her, while I was checking them out myself. So, were they bashing me because I declined a class they promoted? I dunno. Because my friend never knew, met or heard Crxig teach -- she had no personal experience of him at all. Yet, she was comparing me to Crxig because I was uninterested in another "class".
All I knew was, I was just getting over where the first class I took (PFAL) had taken me.
This girl, when I asked her what version of the Bible she had, said, "green." She did not even know it was King James. This same girl, began to tell me how lousy of a Christian I was, when she graduated from Momentus, the very next week.
I couldn't believe I was the one who introduced her to the avenue that led her to this.
I wrote her a note about the "novice Christian" and if she still felt this way about me in five years, to come back and tell me. Otherwise, I was going to blow her off like the freshly born-again person, one might have the misfortune of sitting next to on a long plane ride. Over zealous, critical and annoying. She pushed Momentus at me again.
At the end of five years, she did contact me to apologize. She said she was wrong and truly sorry.
So, this "training" just seems as though it is not RIGHT for everyone. I called my old California girlfriend to see if she was going to attend, and she told me of a mutual friend who had taken it and ended up in some phsyc ward after, or maybe in the middle of, the class.
This is when I again wanted to know the guy's credentials who was running the class, and I was never answered to my satisfaction.
But truly, if some people didn't think they had a good experience then there would have been no second class. So, some must have felt benefited. I will not, nor can I, take that away from them.
However, with all the good that they saw in the people they were with, cannot make what I SAW happen to my friend any different either.
Oh geeze. I would like to try to clear up some misunderstandings. First of all, the comments I have made recently on this thread refer to things that have happened in the past, when this subject has come up. I was not directing my comments to any specific poster, except to WordWolf, and then Chaz, when I related my experience from WD.
Second of all, my own personal experience with the Momentous training was not really positive, not really negative, just kind of neutral. There were cool things about it, and not so cool things about it. Overall, I'm glad I did it, because of the experience of it. It was something I did at the time that stetched me. That's the way I view it.
Thirdly, in my mind, there is a difference between talking about the training itself, and relaying incidents involving people who took the training, and how they acted after. Maybe it's just me, but there is a difference in my mind.
I don't feel like it's my job in life to defend Momentous. It's just that in the past, it has been such a highly charged, volatile subject, I have found it difficult to try to objectively talk about it. So I don't anymore.
(Ok, except for right now.)
It's kinda the same thing with any way corps discussions that come up. Discussing the program is one thing, discussing the people that came out of it and how they responded to the training is quite another. That's the way I look at it.
After reviewing this entire thread, which extends over a period of 2 years, I have come to the conclusion that I should start my own training program for people...
...I will call it "BOJNOC" ...In this training , which promises spiritual growth and enlightenment, I will take a group of " new people" out into the middle of lake Erie in a "lifeboat" and play old Alice Cooper tapes until they beg me to take them back to shore...Of course, I will not do this until their checks clear into my bank account and they finally realize that "BOJNOC" is CON JOB spelled backwards...there will be no repercussions against me because of the "hold harmless clause" that I made them all sign...
...and when it is all over, some will say that it was a bad experience...while others call George in order to get some of those smart pills.
I see what you are saying. It is different to view a class by sitting in it then it is to watch the change in a person who took it. I agree.
Always nice to see you.
Group:
People were asking what the training was like, therefore I shared what she said she experienced, and what I experienced in her.
People were asking about the training, and it was never really discussed in what I read, so I figured I would share what she told me. Second hand, yes.
But it was a LOUD witness to me that I made the correct decision to forego the dang thing and I do not regret that decision. My experience of her -was her testimony, and it was poor at best
Anyone else out there want to share some specifics? Otherwise, I only have what she told me and I revealed to you.
Share something and the positive or negative effect on you, if you feel comfortable. Your experience is your experience, if it was great then that is wonderful. If not, then that is YOUR "take away" from the experience. Whatever, we're all just talking here...
Groucho-
Your class idea sounds great. Perhaps, we can do a class on "how to heal after a cult rips your heart out." Real life sharings. We can pair people up as "partners" and lay the guilt of walking away from something one may perceive as unhealthy, on the student. If you quit the class then your poor partner who paid money and took off of work can not continue.... Hmmmm love is the motivator? or guilt?
We need people to string chairs, yell in the face of the student etc. So, there would be a payroll therefore, THEIR check would still need to clear the bank
I really don't ascribe to the black/white, thinking of the cult anymore.
Honestly, the thing that bothers me about not just the Momentous discussion, but there have been others as well, is the automatic bashing of it by people who maybe don't know all the facts. Reminds me of the Church bashing, Homosexual bashing, Catholic bashing, (the list goes on) that The Cult did.
That's what bothers me the most. That if somebody wants to have a balanced discussion and talk about pros, cons, etc. it's impossible. Only one side of the story is tolerated.
And all this garbage about people having to "repent" of their involvement is just pure bs. Not everything in life is "spiritual" despite what the cult taught.
Seems to me that people do the exact same thing that they complain about happening in the cult.
There are pros and there are cons concerning Momentus...A number of folks have expressed their experience as being positive and found value in the training program...others found it destructive and negative.
Even as those who fall into the "con" side could be called "bashers"...those who fall into the "pro" side could be called koolaid drinkers?...
automatic bashers?...what's automatic about it?...Personally, I spent a significant amount of time investigating this thing. I talked at length (face to face) to about a dozen folks who had taken it and were in favor of it. I went to the Momentus "public explanation" meeting and heard the presentation by the 3 trainers, I studied the internet and other sources for information...and found much. I personally discussed this thing with both JAL and Schoenheit...I allowed all the information I had on Momentus to "incubate" in my mind and considered it at length....my conclusion to not take it came after much deliberation and thought...
...and yes, I bash it...but it's not AUTOMATIC bashing.
If everyone thought the same way, and were likeminded on this thing, there would be no need for this thread. There is an element of debate in these various posts and that's a good thing...there's no need for anyone to be upset because there are others with opposing views...
...if everyone had the same opinion of Momentus...THEN it would resemble a cult mentality. Differences of opinion reflect individuality...and this is healthy.
my only "experience" with momentus was all it took to convince me i wanted nothing to do with it.
i was having lunch with john lynn (something we used to do once a year when he was in the area), and he brought it up to me. this was before any of the bad press, etc. so i asked him to tell me about it. he responded by saying "you'll have to take the class to find out," the same kind of bs we used to say when telling someone to take pfal. i knew right then i'd never have anything to do with it.
I have never taken Momentus, nor have I ever known anyone face to face who has. I say that so you know to take my comments with that understanding.
However, after having a discussion with someone who has been through the program and having done a small amount of googling, I think the concept has validity. BUT it is my understanding that the people running the program are not liscensed psychologists and that I do take issue with. While I think there is great potential for healing and growth with the Momentus concept, I also think there is great potential for serious psychological damage because the program is not run by mental health professionals. If I am wrong in my understanding regarding the psychologists, please let me know.
I have never taken Momentus, nor have I ever known anyone face to face who has. I say that so you know to take my comments with that understanding.
However, after having a discussion with someone who has been through the program and having done a small amount of googling, I think the concept has validity. BUT it is my understanding that the people running the program are not liscensed psychologists and that I do take issue with. While I think there is great potential for healing and growth with the Momentus concept, I also think there is great potential for serious psychological damage because the program is not run by mental health professionals. If I am wrong in my understanding regarding the psychologists, please let me know.
...and therein lies the rub. These folks are NOT mental health professionals. Their group identifies itself with being a "Christian" based organization. By going the route of religion, they avoid the entire academic approach and operate under the flag of Christianity.
The fact of the matter is they are an offshoot of a group called "Lifespring" which makes no pretense of being Christian....and "Lifespring" is an offshoot of the original "EST" training from the 70's. The founder of Momentus was actually an instructor with "Lifespring", who quit and started his own thing (sound familiar?)...only when he started up Momentus, he put a thin veneer of Christian jargon into the training. The Momentus training is almost identical to the Lifespring training...
The question that should be asked is are the techniques used by Momentus biblical? I see NOTHING in the bible that even hints at this type of experience. Can you see Jesus asking you to sign a hold harmless agreement?...or putting you through sleep deprivation and then screaming at you and ordering you to punch a pillow screaming, "mommy, mommy"???
If a person finds value in Momentus...that's their decision....but let's be honest about it....this is new age psycho therapy...and definitely not Christian in nature. I realize that if a Christian takes Momentus, they can internalize their belief systems into the training...but that's only because of what they bring into the training themselves...The same could be said of the experience of an Ozzy Osbourne concert.
I spoke with P*t whom I trusted to have better insight and knew would be honest, she said it was not for everyone, but she did take somethings that were positive away from Momentus.
She was honest, but the other was just TOO excited about a class ran by one man and would NOT discuss what the class was about -- you just have to take it and see....
I did that once ----
Not interested in being a life long groupy -- going from group to group to group.
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WordWolf
It's never a good sign when you have to keep changing your group's name so that people don't know who you are. So, "The Revenant Process" and "Blood and Ethos" and "Master Coaches Academy
WordWolf
A) JAL never apologized to anyone about bringing in a harmful program, or shilling a harmful program- which he does to this day. Either he DOESN'T CARE it's a harmful program, or he's such a raving i
socks
They're similar to Scientology in many respects. Scientology has a range of hold-harmless agreements and contracts they use for their various activities. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Scientology/R
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WordWolf
Ex10,
Feel free to enlighten us with your FIRST-HAND EXPERIENCE anytime.
Others have done so.
I just reviewed the thread.
In the past 12 pages, you refused to share your experiences and answer questions
that were raised.
Hey, totally free to do so. If you feel you'd cross a personal boundary in even the
most vague descriptions of events, that's your decision. I draw lines here on what I
will share as well.
HOWEVER,
having decided where to draw the line,
doesn't it strike you as a little unfair to expect people to automatically presume
that all the stuff you chose NOT to share should cause them to agree with you?
"I was there. I refuse to say what happened, but it was positive and you're
wrong to criticize it" doesn't fly in most discussions on most subjects.
I'm sure you can see why.
I for one have no problem evaluating testimony or information trying to shed a
positive light on Momentus. However, I can't do that if no one's presenting any.
And no, I'm not getting ready to beat on people with positive stories.
(Although some people's approach, as in
"This is why it's good, and everyone who disagrees is possessed!" would beg
for dissent if it was used. That's different. That's objecting to the approach.)
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ex10
This topic has come up time and again on Waydale, and the different incarnations of Greasespot. There have been many threads on this topic. Sorry I didn't elaborate on this particular one. But I have done so in the past, time and time again.
But my Momentous experience is but a mere blip on the radar screen of my life, and to take the time to rethink, revisit, re-explain, whatever, has to wait til I retire, and maybe write my memoirs. I just don't have the mental energy to go there again.
So please forgive me. I will now try to gracefully bow out of the coversation. I am so sorry I said anything.
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ex10
Oh and thanks Wordwolf, for the kindness and consideration with which you approached me. I will remember it always.
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ChasUFarley
Careful Ex10 - admitting that you actually gained something by taking this class can be dangerous.
Hubby took that class after he saw some very positive changes in a friend of his (also x-twi). He wasn't told to take it or asked to - he just wanted to check somethings out for himself. Hubby is not a lemming or a "joiner' - he follows no one, really. Anyhow, he used to post on Waydale until there was a thread like this. He and another poster talked about how they got some positive things out of it, but Hubby mentioned that he didn't "witness" Momentus, or any of that. He agreed it wouldn't be for everyone. He even conceeded that his experience may have not been the norm. Hubby even told me, "This is NOT for you," as he knew I was a bundle of nerves after my TWI experience.
Well, he promptly received some nasty posts in light of his post, then some PMs threatening that if it was ever found out where he taught school that they (the twits sending the PMs) would contact his school where he worked to report his actions and that he took this class! (I should clarify that Hubby is a public school teacher. In one of his posts about the class, he mentioned that his experience helped him in his profession as seeing how people perceived him - and he changed accordingly so that he would be better accepted and more approachable - not really a bad thing for a teacher to do, don't you think?)
So... although some of the people who have taken this class can be real whack jobs, it seems that those who are deadset against it can be just as bad... At best, these threads are always good for some high drama.
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ex10
Yeah, Chaz, I hear you. I remember what happened to your hubby at Waydale. It was horrible. I also got some pretty nasty pms and my email got bombarded with pornographic stuff. (Not necessarily because of that thread only, though.) So much so that I had to change my email address. My husband was sooooo mad. Obviously, this was the days before the good fliters and spam blockers all.
Yeah, for some reason the anti-Momentous people can get pretty rabid.
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George Aar
I once heard of a guy who was really into "self-help" sort of therapies.
He was riding on a bus one day and noticed the guy next to him was constantly taking little brown pills.
"What are those pills you're taking?" he asked.
"Oh, these? These are "Smart" pills. I take them all the time to make me more intelligent. Would you like to try some?"
Well, being as it sounded like a good thing to do, the guy tried out the pills himself.
The two of them were gobbling them up when the fellow finally remarked "Gee, you know these look like rabbit turds."
To which the other replied "SEE! You're getting smarter already!"
There's lots of stuff promoted as being tremendously beneficial - and ALWAYS with numeroous testimonials as to it's efficaciousness.
Personally I have about an equal amount of things that I will never partake in, simply because they strike me as dorky. Scientology, astrology, new-age medicinal cures, Wicca, synchronicity, etc. etc. etc....
If the basics of what you hear about something are so diametrically opposed to what you've come to regard as sensible and worthwhile, do you really have time to venture down ALL of those (possibly) idiotic alleys?
Maybe I'll take a real chance and just try to muddle through life without the help of the enlightened gurus of pop-psychology and woo-woo metaphysics. My loss, I guess...
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doojable
Just to clarify - Ex10, I did not take the class. My friends ( all four - well seven in total) that took Momentus all said that although it was a very challenging weekend,(in that they had to confront things in themselves they had been avoiding) -it was a positive experience.
My problem was that with the exception on ONE person they all tried to act as "trainers" thought they werejust fresh and new out of the class. (And yes I know that the admonition was to not go out and try to act that way - but then again we were all told to have people wait until the 12th session to have them speak in tongues.) They were confrontational and only honest when they had to get something off of their chest - but there was not quid pro quo.
Now, this (the above) is the only personal experience I have regarding Momentus. It is not an experience from the seminar itself - but rather with the aftermath. I repeat - I NEVER TOOK MOMENTUS! BUT my (MY!) experience with the folks that did was less than positive.
I'd say that this experience it valid. AND I repeat - these folks liked the experience. One couple started the training to become trainers. Then they quit because they stated that their had been some changes in the Momentus group that made them decide to never even recommend it to anyone.
So - the Momentus experience you received may have been completely different from that of others.
I'm sure that there are as many views on this as there are in politics or religion.....I'm glad that it seemed to be a good thing for you - at least that is what you have implied.
peace
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Dot Matrix
P.S.
Sorry about my typo's I would correct them but the edit button is not there anymore -- oh well!
Just wanted to say I was sorry
MMMMM the button is here now
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dmiller
(slightly
here --)
You have (if I remember right), 12 hours to edit your post before the edit button disappears.
If you get back to your post in that time frame, editing is still *available*. ;)
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Dot Matrix
Gosh Ex10- I hope you do not think because I shared my first hand experience of the person I knew, before entering Momentus and after, that it was somehow an attack on you.
I would not do that to you. If you had a good experience then you did, nobody’s bad experience will wipe out the goodness of what you experienced. I still am glad I took PFAL and all the BAD that happened after, still does not touch the great things that happened to me, while in that class for the first time. I am glad your experience was sweet.
Just seems like people are asking what is was like, and this woman told me and I shared it. That would be second hand, but my very first hand experience was that of a "bad change" in her.
She and her husband invited me to a dinner with two x-twi who were now "trainers" in Momentus (people who apparently sit in the back of the class and take notes & stuff.)
I told all concerned, sure I would like to get together with them but I was not going to take Momentus, nor did I want to go to a dinner promoting it.
We got to dinner and about 10 minutes into it, the dinner became a platform to push me and my spouse into taking the class.
We left.
Later, when the friend of mine tried to push me into the class for about the 12th time and I told her, "NO," she told me I was sick just like Crxig Mxrtindale.
Now, this girl had never been in TWI and all she knew of it was from me, who was her friend. And some SPLINTER people, to whom I had introduced her, while I was checking them out myself. So, were they bashing me because I declined a class they promoted? I dunno. Because my friend never knew, met or heard Crxig teach -- she had no personal experience of him at all. Yet, she was comparing me to Crxig because I was uninterested in another "class".
All I knew was, I was just getting over where the first class I took (PFAL) had taken me.
This girl, when I asked her what version of the Bible she had, said, "green." She did not even know it was King James. This same girl, began to tell me how lousy of a Christian I was, when she graduated from Momentus, the very next week.
I couldn't believe I was the one who introduced her to the avenue that led her to this.
I wrote her a note about the "novice Christian" and if she still felt this way about me in five years, to come back and tell me. Otherwise, I was going to blow her off like the freshly born-again person, one might have the misfortune of sitting next to on a long plane ride. Over zealous, critical and annoying. She pushed Momentus at me again.
At the end of five years, she did contact me to apologize. She said she was wrong and truly sorry.
So, this "training" just seems as though it is not RIGHT for everyone. I called my old California girlfriend to see if she was going to attend, and she told me of a mutual friend who had taken it and ended up in some phsyc ward after, or maybe in the middle of, the class.
This is when I again wanted to know the guy's credentials who was running the class, and I was never answered to my satisfaction.
But truly, if some people didn't think they had a good experience then there would have been no second class. So, some must have felt benefited. I will not, nor can I, take that away from them.
However, with all the good that they saw in the people they were with, cannot make what I SAW happen to my friend any different either.
It is what it is.
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Dot Matrix
(thanks DM)
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ex10
Oh geeze. I would like to try to clear up some misunderstandings. First of all, the comments I have made recently on this thread refer to things that have happened in the past, when this subject has come up. I was not directing my comments to any specific poster, except to WordWolf, and then Chaz, when I related my experience from WD.
Second of all, my own personal experience with the Momentous training was not really positive, not really negative, just kind of neutral. There were cool things about it, and not so cool things about it. Overall, I'm glad I did it, because of the experience of it. It was something I did at the time that stetched me. That's the way I view it.
Thirdly, in my mind, there is a difference between talking about the training itself, and relaying incidents involving people who took the training, and how they acted after. Maybe it's just me, but there is a difference in my mind.
I don't feel like it's my job in life to defend Momentous. It's just that in the past, it has been such a highly charged, volatile subject, I have found it difficult to try to objectively talk about it. So I don't anymore.
(Ok, except for right now.)
It's kinda the same thing with any way corps discussions that come up. Discussing the program is one thing, discussing the people that came out of it and how they responded to the training is quite another. That's the way I look at it.
I hope this clears some stuff up.
And it's nice to see you again, Dot.
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GrouchoMarxJr
After reviewing this entire thread, which extends over a period of 2 years, I have come to the conclusion that I should start my own training program for people...
...I will call it "BOJNOC" ...In this training , which promises spiritual growth and enlightenment, I will take a group of " new people" out into the middle of lake Erie in a "lifeboat" and play old Alice Cooper tapes until they beg me to take them back to shore...Of course, I will not do this until their checks clear into my bank account and they finally realize that "BOJNOC" is CON JOB spelled backwards...there will be no repercussions against me because of the "hold harmless clause" that I made them all sign...
...and when it is all over, some will say that it was a bad experience...while others call George in order to get some of those smart pills.
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Dot Matrix
Ex10:
I see what you are saying. It is different to view a class by sitting in it then it is to watch the change in a person who took it. I agree.
Always nice to see you.
Group:
People were asking what the training was like, therefore I shared what she said she experienced, and what I experienced in her.
People were asking about the training, and it was never really discussed in what I read, so I figured I would share what she told me. Second hand, yes.
But it was a LOUD witness to me that I made the correct decision to forego the dang thing and I do not regret that decision. My experience of her -was her testimony, and it was poor at best
Anyone else out there want to share some specifics? Otherwise, I only have what she told me and I revealed to you.
Share something and the positive or negative effect on you, if you feel comfortable. Your experience is your experience, if it was great then that is wonderful. If not, then that is YOUR "take away" from the experience. Whatever, we're all just talking here...
Groucho-
Your class idea sounds great. Perhaps, we can do a class on "how to heal after a cult rips your heart out." Real life sharings. We can pair people up as "partners" and lay the guilt of walking away from something one may perceive as unhealthy, on the student. If you quit the class then your poor partner who paid money and took off of work can not continue.... Hmmmm love is the motivator? or guilt?
We need people to string chairs, yell in the face of the student etc. So, there would be a payroll therefore, THEIR check would still need to clear the bank
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ex10
I really don't ascribe to the black/white, thinking of the cult anymore.
Honestly, the thing that bothers me about not just the Momentous discussion, but there have been others as well, is the automatic bashing of it by people who maybe don't know all the facts. Reminds me of the Church bashing, Homosexual bashing, Catholic bashing, (the list goes on) that The Cult did.
That's what bothers me the most. That if somebody wants to have a balanced discussion and talk about pros, cons, etc. it's impossible. Only one side of the story is tolerated.
And all this garbage about people having to "repent" of their involvement is just pure bs. Not everything in life is "spiritual" despite what the cult taught.
Seems to me that people do the exact same thing that they complain about happening in the cult.
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GrouchoMarxJr
In all honesty, I think this thread IS balanced.
There are pros and there are cons concerning Momentus...A number of folks have expressed their experience as being positive and found value in the training program...others found it destructive and negative.
Even as those who fall into the "con" side could be called "bashers"...those who fall into the "pro" side could be called koolaid drinkers?...
automatic bashers?...what's automatic about it?...Personally, I spent a significant amount of time investigating this thing. I talked at length (face to face) to about a dozen folks who had taken it and were in favor of it. I went to the Momentus "public explanation" meeting and heard the presentation by the 3 trainers, I studied the internet and other sources for information...and found much. I personally discussed this thing with both JAL and Schoenheit...I allowed all the information I had on Momentus to "incubate" in my mind and considered it at length....my conclusion to not take it came after much deliberation and thought...
...and yes, I bash it...but it's not AUTOMATIC bashing.
If everyone thought the same way, and were likeminded on this thing, there would be no need for this thread. There is an element of debate in these various posts and that's a good thing...there's no need for anyone to be upset because there are others with opposing views...
...if everyone had the same opinion of Momentus...THEN it would resemble a cult mentality. Differences of opinion reflect individuality...and this is healthy.
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ex10
Thanks for that Groucho. Of course, you are right. I confess to letting the history of the issue cloud my thinking.
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sprawled out
my only "experience" with momentus was all it took to convince me i wanted nothing to do with it.
i was having lunch with john lynn (something we used to do once a year when he was in the area), and he brought it up to me. this was before any of the bad press, etc. so i asked him to tell me about it. he responded by saying "you'll have to take the class to find out," the same kind of bs we used to say when telling someone to take pfal. i knew right then i'd never have anything to do with it.
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Abigail
I have never taken Momentus, nor have I ever known anyone face to face who has. I say that so you know to take my comments with that understanding.
However, after having a discussion with someone who has been through the program and having done a small amount of googling, I think the concept has validity. BUT it is my understanding that the people running the program are not liscensed psychologists and that I do take issue with. While I think there is great potential for healing and growth with the Momentus concept, I also think there is great potential for serious psychological damage because the program is not run by mental health professionals. If I am wrong in my understanding regarding the psychologists, please let me know.
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GrouchoMarxJr
You're quite welcome ex10... :)
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GrouchoMarxJr
...and therein lies the rub. These folks are NOT mental health professionals. Their group identifies itself with being a "Christian" based organization. By going the route of religion, they avoid the entire academic approach and operate under the flag of Christianity.
The fact of the matter is they are an offshoot of a group called "Lifespring" which makes no pretense of being Christian....and "Lifespring" is an offshoot of the original "EST" training from the 70's. The founder of Momentus was actually an instructor with "Lifespring", who quit and started his own thing (sound familiar?)...only when he started up Momentus, he put a thin veneer of Christian jargon into the training. The Momentus training is almost identical to the Lifespring training...
The question that should be asked is are the techniques used by Momentus biblical? I see NOTHING in the bible that even hints at this type of experience. Can you see Jesus asking you to sign a hold harmless agreement?...or putting you through sleep deprivation and then screaming at you and ordering you to punch a pillow screaming, "mommy, mommy"???
If a person finds value in Momentus...that's their decision....but let's be honest about it....this is new age psycho therapy...and definitely not Christian in nature. I realize that if a Christian takes Momentus, they can internalize their belief systems into the training...but that's only because of what they bring into the training themselves...The same could be said of the experience of an Ozzy Osbourne concert.
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Dot Matrix
Groucho--
I could not have said it better.
Sprawled out
I spoke with P*t whom I trusted to have better insight and knew would be honest, she said it was not for everyone, but she did take somethings that were positive away from Momentus.
She was honest, but the other was just TOO excited about a class ran by one man and would NOT discuss what the class was about -- you just have to take it and see....
I did that once ----
Not interested in being a life long groupy -- going from group to group to group.
I'll pass....
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dmiller
I really don't like folks yelling at me.
And I surely won't deliberately pay them to do so.
(JUST --- my IMO!!) :)
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WordWolf
Someone asked about Momentus....
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