Thank you SirGuess, for having the heart and guts to say what you've said.
I understand the knee-jerk reactions. Who knows, maybe LLPOF is just messing with us and trying to get people's dander up. But why should any of us be so bothered by words that we've already dismissed as false? Where is the threat?
Or maybe, as SirGuess says, this person is only a few steps away from where we were not so very long ago. For some of us it's been a lot of years, for others only months or a few years. But who here never said anything like what he's said when still sold on the "product"?
Does he sound like a VP idolizer? Sure. But I'd rather leave judgment (as in judging him guilty and beneath contempt, not judging his words) to God.
If I were LLPOF and if I were sincere in my first post (rather than coming here for some *hit stirring, which of course he might be), I would react the way I did back in the deprogrammers' heyday and dig my feet a li'l deeper into the sand.
Where's the harm in speaking reasonably to someone we think is being unreasonable? Are we gonna get way cooties? Reminds me of when Ralph D et al were touring the country and still-innies were issuing Big Warnings: Don't go there. Devil spirits mutter mutter possessed mutter mutter talk you outa the Word mutter mutter. I remember thinking, "Okay, so all this spiritual darkness is contagious? Those nasty ol' spirits on Ralph are gonna jump from him to me like fleas?"
Sir has a point. Can those of you who get so angry at LLPOF's kind of declarations stop and consider that he's no threat. He might be hoodwinked, but which of us here wasn't at one time?
I beg your pardon Sir Guess...but I DON`T strut ... and I DON`T strike blows for God nor attempt to speak for God or any more...I`ll leave that to liar ...
Just remembered something else. When I was an almost-outie (out in my heart but not yet identified as an undesirable by twi"leadership"), a new batch of Corps arrived in town after the ROA ('89, I think). A friend and I went for the sole purpose of asking them about the crapola we were hearing coming out of HQ (lines in the sand, LCM is THE man, blah blah blah).
Well, according to the local Geerites, you'd have thought we were going to a meeting with the Devil himself. "Ohhhhh, you're treading in dangerous territory." "I don't think you should go." "You're gonna get deceived." cluck cluck cluck.
Do you see a pattern here? It's those "us and them" patterns that have to be broken before *real* freedom happens and not just the freedom to say whatever you like whenever you like to whomever you deem "the other side." Shoot, the whole world has that kind of freedom down to a science!
I hope I'm not sounding harsh, because I'm not feeling harshly toward anyone who's posted in this thread. I just think it's extremely freeing to break some of these patterns we picked up along the way that might still lurk in our minds.
You've made many valid points today. I've not said much on this thread, yet here is the original statement I thought to be in the need of addressing.
quote: posted by LLPOF:
So many enemies of the living Dr. Victor Paul Wierwille yet it takes his death to bring out the wickedness of lying, bitter souls to "confront" a dead man
I don't see myself, or anyone else, "confronting" a dead man. Merely stating facts and events that happened. And while the souls may be bitter, they are not lying. After reading so many stories here of the atrocities that occurred, there was no doubt left in my mind that truth was finally coming out into broad daylight where it belongs.
And I, for one, was not an enemy of vpw while he was alive. I didn't know about all this stuff then, but I don't hesitate to speak today about what I know (given the many testimonies here), should someone care to ask. And the fact that LLPOF has chosen to ignore what has been written here (by those who have 1st hand experience), and call them "lying, bitter souls" puts him into the category of those who are in need of reproof.
That's my opinion. LLPOF is walking the "fine line" between being the man by the side of the road that the good Samaritan helped, and being a Pharisee. Personally, I think he slipped into the Pharisee ditch, and perhaps a "Good Samaritan" will cross the road and help. But he needs to recognize he needs the help first, which I doubt is forth-coming at any time soon.
there's a new one!!
"Why did the Good Samaritan cross the road?" :D-->
Nice sentiment you guys...really, I tell you...I am as good a samaritan as any I suppose...but I simply don`t see liar being some poor battered and bloodied innocent robbery victim.......I think that you are up mixing your bible characters... he reminds me of someone else entirely... I didn`t see jesus making excuses for the religious pukes of his day....not when they accused him of lies .... hiding behind their dogma making THEM appear to be rightious and on God`s side......seems to me that I remember ...he got rather curt with them...and called them a lot worse than ANYTHING that we have called liar so far....Far from viewing them as broken and bloodied...in need of sympathy...seems to me, he saw them as menaces and liars.
I can just see it....Awww you poor wittle phawacies....tsk tsk...I understand....you simply have been taught wrong...I just know that it isn`t your fault that you snap at people and froth at the mouth like ssome rabid dogs... bless yer hearts....I am sure that you mean well....naw ...they were so poisonous, twisted, that he didn`t cut em any slack...don`t know that I owe any to liar either ...
There comes a point....when you go from being decieved by evil, to actively enganging in and inflicting the evil upon others ...an active participant........Liar has revulsion I feel towards any venomous creature.
Rascal, I don't see anyone here "making excuses for" LLPOF. I can gather enough from his posts to know I disagree with him, but certainly not enough to surmise that he's a "religious puke" as you so delicately put it.
When you were still in or newly out, you never spouted the company line? Your past posts would indicate otherwise. And would being pounced upon ala LCM have changed your mind?
quote: Why is he worthy of my protection? Is he not the least of us all?
Excuse.
quote: All you "followers of Christ” and/or "logical, reasonable men..." you heap insults and scorn and jeers and sneers and throw words like barbs at someone you yourselves call weak and worthless and mindless and sick. So you justify jabbing at a weakling in the name of Jesus?!? In the name of reason? Or is it common sense, this time?
Excuse.
quote: Like I said, some just can't help themselves.
Excuse. ..... Catch my drift here?
The man came in with, if you'll pardon the 'Craiggism' here, "both barrels blazing", an act usually done with forethought beforehand. And regardless of what/how much he has or has not been hurt by TWI himself (or herself, as it could very well be Poppy-Polly-what's-her-face), the return fire that he has gotten was entirely justified, for even with the TWI influence/hurt, one can (and should) realize that coming in ranting like Liar did is totally uncalled for. Period!
Yes, let it stand. You sound like a true daughter of pain. So I pray you become a queen of it instead, in your own time.
So you hope I become a queen of pain? You know what you can do with your haughty attitude and your ridicule? Kindly keep your ridicule to yourself because I don't receive it.
I am not one of your disciples and have noticed in all of your posts you say things about Jesus that just aren't true. You give a little truth in all but don't really say what Jesus says in the gospels in the right way. And, I don't think you've made it a secret that you don't consider yourself a Christian. But, you DO seem to consider yourself some sort of moderator or expert in something, I'm not sure what. But a lot of people are very impressed with your posts. So be it.
Thank you Rascal for your post about how Jesus dealt with the pharisees. Yes, Liar came in here positing himself as our "spiritual leader." Just come unto me and I will teach you what is right and will turn you from your misguided and false ways. RIIIIIIIIIGHT!
You know, Liar, we can laugh at your apparent belief that you have the RIGHT to set us straight by spewing so much waytalk, but what I don't laugh about is your being a part of and consenting to the same murder-rape-seduction Machine of the Way International. You may not be IN the way but the Way Machine is still in you. You represent the murder-machine and that is what I object to. As long as you stand with Dr. Wierwille, you consent to the same.
Apparently you think all you have to say is "it didn't happen" and it will all be all right. And, you LEAD others to do the same. I believe that is wrong.
The day I really KNEW the accuzations were true about Dr. Wierwille was watching Jennifer Flowers talk one day on T.V., of all people. Why? Because I finally REALIZED if THAT MANY women from different parts of the country (and different vocations) are ALL saying the same things about Bill Clinton, then it MUST be true. There was no way any of those women even KNEW each other. Yet, listening to them convinced me that he really was doing those things. Hum.
So, no Liar, we will not come to you for spiritual counsel and we speak plainly to you for THINKING that you ARE just as Jesus spoke plainly to the pharisees who THOUGHT they WERE his spiritual leaders but WEREN'T. And, I believe it is Christ-like to stand up to you.
I didn’t see a reason to bother with this thread until now. Invective and silly challenges of “manly men” on Internet forums are of no interest to me. But now a question arises in my mind.
Do those who chide others for responding harshly to LLPOF intend to follow their own counsel of “speaking reasonably” and “helping him out of the ditch?” If not, then all those words amount to empty pontification, in my estimation.
When I first read LLPOF's post, I didn't even bother to resond. I truly believe vpw was in for the money and lust, not love. But that doesn't mean that every time someone who is riled up in protecting his legacy has to rile me up. If LLPOF wants too believe vpw sits at God's right hand, let them. You can't convince a man against his will.
Remember the line from a famous move "If you build it, they will come." Well LLPOF was waiting for the challenges. Do you think LLPOF actually believed they would change people to be vpw supporters? Do we actually think we can change vpw supporters to be like us? Depends on the individual. I was an apologist when I first came on this forum, but I was open to hear what people had to say because I knew it stunk a lot in twitville.
I guess what I'm getting at is that we shouldn't get our shorts in a wad or our panties twisted just because someone says something with which we disagree. There are a lot of us who want to expose the treachery of twi, but we don't have to get riled up about it. Just because somoeone thinks a certain way or says something doesn't mean it is so. That is why I don't even bother with Mike's threads anymore.
It would be really nice if, when quoting, you'd state whom you're quoting instead of addressing me and then quoting someone else's words through your entire post. I appreciate the tone of Sir's posts, but I didn't write them and I don't agree with every word, so please don't make it look as if they're mine, okay?
Believe it or not, I'm not that concerned about LLPOF. I don't know him from a dust bunny under my bed. I neither love that dust bunny nor hate it. It's just there. :)--> I'm much more concerned about those of you who've been around here for a long time...i.e., how a stranger, very possibly just trolling for a reaction, can get you so upset.
Long Gone, I'm not chiding anyone. I'm saying, "There but for the grace of God go a whole bunch of us, so why get so worked up over LLPOF's posts and call him names?"
I didn't bring up the Samaritan. I'm not out to "save" LLPOF, because I firmly believe that people get out of mindsets like his when they're good and ready. I simply don't see the need to crucify him just because he came here boldly declaring what many people here once thought. Some people sound as if he's at their back door with a bloody axe in his hand.
I'll ask my original question another way: What's LLPOF going to do, trick you into believing again that VPW's an upstanding guy? Convince you that every word he spoke was straight from the lips of God? No, I didn't think so. So what's the big threat?
Linda...I spouted *company line* but I never attacked other posters...called them liars...assaulted their characters...labled them as servants of satan and against God...what liar is doing goes far beyond the company line.
If you and guess wanna be nice to him...fine...but it certainly does not behoove me to...I am not required by any stretch of the imagination to entertain such treatment by a rabid beast.
dear no-fencie, i don't have time at the moment to go back and see the posts but i saw yours to sirguess. i really honestly believe he was saying something kind and there is a miscommunciation
I can agree with you in this much. When someone's posts are as inflamatory as LLPOF's are, they don't rile me. Nor do I especially think that my responses will do much to change that person's mindset. But I post with a thought to those who might be lurking who haven't made up their minds on the matter.
As to people with terse responses, well, some don't feel that their actions have to "line up with the Word" any longer. And sometimes, when people have been abused, they feel empowered by stopping any future abuse in its tracks with strong words. I don't blame them -- mean people suck!
I understand the knee-jerk reactions. Who knows, maybe LLPOF is just messing with us and trying to get people's dander up. But why should any of us be so bothered by words that we've already dismissed as false? Where is the threat?
Well of course he is. And I see no threat. BUT that doesn't mean it doesn't hurt to some of those that were personally victims of veepee. (I know we all were, but you know what I'm talking about) But I don't think I'd chide anyone for getting riled up if someone came in here with the express intent of "picking at my wounds". I don't know how much that hurts them. They have every reason to react that way. It's not for me to say.
quote:Do you see a pattern here? It's those "us and them" patterns that have to be broken before *real* freedom happens and not just the freedom to say whatever you like whenever you like to whomever you deem "the other side." Shoot, the whole world has that kind of freedom down to a science!
LLPOF comes in here like a gunslinger, calling everyone liars and challenging them to a showdown at high noon. How do you expect people to react? And I do not think it compares at all to Waybrain "Us against Them" (at least that's what I think you were alluding to). Your analogy hints of "groupthink", I've seen people responding not because of the group, but because of personal hurt. Which brings me to...
quote:Sirguess said:
You gonna choose which kinds of ditches are worth helping people out of, and which ones are not?
In a word... YES! Yes I am going to decide... Or should I let you decide for me? It's kind of hard to "stoop down" and "lend a hand" when the person in the ditch is "swinging a sword" at you (your words by the way). I get to choose. And I actually do "stoop down" quite often to help. And I don't think any less of nor do I disparage those that choose not to. That's their personal choice.
It's abundantly clear to me that LLPOF came in here looking for a fight. Walked right into the old GSC and yelled "the food stinks and the coffee is worse!" I personally think he needs to seek the help of a mental health professional if he isn't already. But I'm not going to chide the people for yelling back "we like the food, we like the coffee, and on top of that... the pie is quite tasty!"
And, of course, now LLPOF is sitting there in front of his computer laughing his arse off at how we start arguing with each other because of the way some people responded to him.
Liar typos aren't really the issue. I love typos. Embrace them. Cares them. See? :)-->
There are two issues I see immediately in regards to how you present your views as you have - accuracy, reliablity and integrity. Typos reflect on them.
Assuming you're serious, and I will, you invite people to fly to your city and meet with you for a witnessed and taped dicussion of important and serious matters in regards to VPW, the Way and apparently much more.
First - integrity and reliablity. I have no idea who you are or what validates your opinions, ideas and information. You haven't stated that. Put as a question - "what makes you a worthwhile candidate for such an investment of time and money?" What do you have to offer? Integrity hasn't been established, in the sense of the makeup and quality of what you have to offer. Neither has reliability. How reliable a source are you? While your offer is very aggressive it could be a complete waste of time if you're a bad source of information, worse still if you're just a well-meaning idiot who really has nothing to offer but simply wants to get something off his chest and considers it valiant to do so.
If the former you offer nothing but endless debate and possible personal humiliation to yourself. If the latter you could accomplish your challenge by simply carrying it out on GS in a "free" posting environment where you could 1) present your information, 2) explain and document it and 3) receive responses and discussion. And all for "free", no airline peanuts, little hassle. This fly up and see me sometime stuff just comes across as bluster and blow and more blow than anything.
So whether you're 1 or 2 of the above, or something else entirely, why not take me up on it? State your case, document and explain it, and let everyone who chooses have the benefit of it? Here. Now.
Accuracy - well, it would be at least a good will gesture towards establishing yourself as someone worth reading and visiting for such a serious challenge if you typed your ideas coherently. The fact that you don't doesn't tell me you're entirely out to lunch. It just indicates that perhaps you're in too big a hurry, rushing to get your ideas out without giving them the benefit of a second read. If that's the case, what does it say about your other ideas?
One thing about VPW you will probably know and remember - he was a big one for accuracy. In speech, print, you name it. An incorrectly spelled word...just one...in a Way Magazine and he'd be down everyone's throats. Why? "If you're not accurate on the little things you won't be accurate on the big things, the Word people!" If you're going to establish yourself so aggressively as a reliable and worthwhile source of anything resembling the Word, and do it in the same breath as VPW and his ministry, that would be a place to start - accurately rendering your contributions. Either way, I'm not a total word-nanny. I'll read what you have to say either way, if you'll say it. I'm just suggesting that if you're going to puff up your uh, chest and invite the whole world to a duke-out, make it at least appear like you've got something in your glove.
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sirguessalot
Thanks, rascal.
Why is he worthy of my protection?
Is he not the least of us all?
Why are you worthy of my contempt and condemnation?
My contempt is for the manner of holding court. Because I recognize it.
This "method" breeds nothing but ignorance and waste.
And I have not condemned anyone. The future is always uncertain.
Anyone's life can radically change in a single day.
I think you guys are capable of helping people like this if you wanted to.
But what we want is a lot different than what we wish we wanted, right?
To get beyond being so quickly hurt by their ignorance. Takes courage, imo.
And no, not everyone is near this kinda thing.
But some of you have been sitting here awhile.
And you react like its the first time you heard it all.
Lets say LLPF has "chosen to align himself with evil and close his ears to the voice of God."
Then who told you to condemn him?
Who told you he is worthless?
Who taught you to say "screw im?"
Is this the God you say LLPF cannot hear?
I say LLPF hears him loud and clear.
Do you think anything you will say will open his ears or eyes?
Do you think anything he will say will open your ears or eyes?
And if he leaves the GSC, you, too, may strut and say to yourself that you struck a blow for God.
My point....
Around and around it goes.
Where it stops, nobody knows.
Who wants off? Anyone? LLPF?
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Linda Z
Thank you SirGuess, for having the heart and guts to say what you've said.
I understand the knee-jerk reactions. Who knows, maybe LLPOF is just messing with us and trying to get people's dander up. But why should any of us be so bothered by words that we've already dismissed as false? Where is the threat?
Or maybe, as SirGuess says, this person is only a few steps away from where we were not so very long ago. For some of us it's been a lot of years, for others only months or a few years. But who here never said anything like what he's said when still sold on the "product"?
Does he sound like a VP idolizer? Sure. But I'd rather leave judgment (as in judging him guilty and beneath contempt, not judging his words) to God.
If I were LLPOF and if I were sincere in my first post (rather than coming here for some *hit stirring, which of course he might be), I would react the way I did back in the deprogrammers' heyday and dig my feet a li'l deeper into the sand.
Where's the harm in speaking reasonably to someone we think is being unreasonable? Are we gonna get way cooties? Reminds me of when Ralph D et al were touring the country and still-innies were issuing Big Warnings: Don't go there. Devil spirits mutter mutter possessed mutter mutter talk you outa the Word mutter mutter. I remember thinking, "Okay, so all this spiritual darkness is contagious? Those nasty ol' spirits on Ralph are gonna jump from him to me like fleas?"
Sir has a point. Can those of you who get so angry at LLPOF's kind of declarations stop and consider that he's no threat. He might be hoodwinked, but which of us here wasn't at one time?
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Kit Sober
Could LLPOF be lolly lowly poppy or friend?
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rascal
I beg your pardon Sir Guess...but I DON`T strut ... and I DON`T strike blows for God nor attempt to speak for God or any more...I`ll leave that to liar ...
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Linda Z
Just remembered something else. When I was an almost-outie (out in my heart but not yet identified as an undesirable by twi"leadership"), a new batch of Corps arrived in town after the ROA ('89, I think). A friend and I went for the sole purpose of asking them about the crapola we were hearing coming out of HQ (lines in the sand, LCM is THE man, blah blah blah).
Well, according to the local Geerites, you'd have thought we were going to a meeting with the Devil himself. "Ohhhhh, you're treading in dangerous territory." "I don't think you should go." "You're gonna get deceived." cluck cluck cluck.
Do you see a pattern here? It's those "us and them" patterns that have to be broken before *real* freedom happens and not just the freedom to say whatever you like whenever you like to whomever you deem "the other side." Shoot, the whole world has that kind of freedom down to a science!
I hope I'm not sounding harsh, because I'm not feeling harshly toward anyone who's posted in this thread. I just think it's extremely freeing to break some of these patterns we picked up along the way that might still lurk in our minds.
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dmiller
Sir Guess:
You've made many valid points today. I've not said much on this thread, yet here is the original statement I thought to be in the need of addressing.
I don't see myself, or anyone else, "confronting" a dead man. Merely stating facts and events that happened. And while the souls may be bitter, they are not lying. After reading so many stories here of the atrocities that occurred, there was no doubt left in my mind that truth was finally coming out into broad daylight where it belongs.
And I, for one, was not an enemy of vpw while he was alive. I didn't know about all this stuff then, but I don't hesitate to speak today about what I know (given the many testimonies here), should someone care to ask. And the fact that LLPOF has chosen to ignore what has been written here (by those who have 1st hand experience), and call them "lying, bitter souls" puts him into the category of those who are in need of reproof.
That's my opinion. LLPOF is walking the "fine line" between being the man by the side of the road that the good Samaritan helped, and being a Pharisee. Personally, I think he slipped into the Pharisee ditch, and perhaps a "Good Samaritan" will cross the road and help. But he needs to recognize he needs the help first, which I doubt is forth-coming at any time soon.
there's a new one!!
"Why did the Good Samaritan cross the road?"
:D-->
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sirguessalot
Thanks for joining in, Linda Z.
And I agree regarding "real freedom."
(Gawd! How so many good words have been dragged thru the mud)
"Why did the good Samaritan cross the road?"
LOL, dmiller! I hope you can come up with a good punchline for that one.
:)-->
Hey, if a guy is broken and bloody in a ditch,
you gonna wait till he confesses his sins before you even try and help?
Besides, wouldn't being a "Pharisee" (another overused ex-way buzzword) equal being stuck in a ditch, anyway?
You gonna choose which kinds of ditches are worth helping people out of, and which ones are not?
peace
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dmiller
Hmmmmmmmm -- maybe he was stapled to the chicken, along with the punk rocker??
-->
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rascal
Nice sentiment you guys...really, I tell you...I am as good a samaritan as any I suppose...but I simply don`t see liar being some poor battered and bloodied innocent robbery victim.......I think that you are up mixing your bible characters... he reminds me of someone else entirely... I didn`t see jesus making excuses for the religious pukes of his day....not when they accused him of lies .... hiding behind their dogma making THEM appear to be rightious and on God`s side......seems to me that I remember ...he got rather curt with them...and called them a lot worse than ANYTHING that we have called liar so far....Far from viewing them as broken and bloodied...in need of sympathy...seems to me, he saw them as menaces and liars.
I can just see it....Awww you poor wittle phawacies....tsk tsk...I understand....you simply have been taught wrong...I just know that it isn`t your fault that you snap at people and froth at the mouth like ssome rabid dogs... bless yer hearts....I am sure that you mean well....naw ...they were so poisonous, twisted, that he didn`t cut em any slack...don`t know that I owe any to liar either ...
There comes a point....when you go from being decieved by evil, to actively enganging in and inflicting the evil upon others ...an active participant........Liar has revulsion I feel towards any venomous creature.
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Linda Z
Rascal, I don't see anyone here "making excuses for" LLPOF. I can gather enough from his posts to know I disagree with him, but certainly not enough to surmise that he's a "religious puke" as you so delicately put it.
When you were still in or newly out, you never spouted the company line? Your past posts would indicate otherwise. And would being pounced upon ala LCM have changed your mind?
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GarthP2000
Linda,
Excuse.
Excuse.
Excuse. ..... Catch my drift here?
The man came in with, if you'll pardon the 'Craiggism' here, "both barrels blazing", an act usually done with forethought beforehand. And regardless of what/how much he has or has not been hurt by TWI himself (or herself, as it could very well be Poppy-Polly-what's-her-face), the return fire that he has gotten was entirely justified, for even with the TWI influence/hurt, one can (and should) realize that coming in ranting like Liar did is totally uncalled for. Period!
He got what he deserved.
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Don'tFenceMeIn
SirGuessALot said:
So you hope I become a queen of pain? You know what you can do with your haughty attitude and your ridicule? Kindly keep your ridicule to yourself because I don't receive it.
I am not one of your disciples and have noticed in all of your posts you say things about Jesus that just aren't true. You give a little truth in all but don't really say what Jesus says in the gospels in the right way. And, I don't think you've made it a secret that you don't consider yourself a Christian. But, you DO seem to consider yourself some sort of moderator or expert in something, I'm not sure what. But a lot of people are very impressed with your posts. So be it.
Thank you Rascal for your post about how Jesus dealt with the pharisees. Yes, Liar came in here positing himself as our "spiritual leader." Just come unto me and I will teach you what is right and will turn you from your misguided and false ways. RIIIIIIIIIGHT!
You know, Liar, we can laugh at your apparent belief that you have the RIGHT to set us straight by spewing so much waytalk, but what I don't laugh about is your being a part of and consenting to the same murder-rape-seduction Machine of the Way International. You may not be IN the way but the Way Machine is still in you. You represent the murder-machine and that is what I object to. As long as you stand with Dr. Wierwille, you consent to the same.
Apparently you think all you have to say is "it didn't happen" and it will all be all right. And, you LEAD others to do the same. I believe that is wrong.
The day I really KNEW the accuzations were true about Dr. Wierwille was watching Jennifer Flowers talk one day on T.V., of all people. Why? Because I finally REALIZED if THAT MANY women from different parts of the country (and different vocations) are ALL saying the same things about Bill Clinton, then it MUST be true. There was no way any of those women even KNEW each other. Yet, listening to them convinced me that he really was doing those things. Hum.
So, no Liar, we will not come to you for spiritual counsel and we speak plainly to you for THINKING that you ARE just as Jesus spoke plainly to the pharisees who THOUGHT they WERE his spiritual leaders but WEREN'T. And, I believe it is Christ-like to stand up to you.
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LG
I didn’t see a reason to bother with this thread until now. Invective and silly challenges of “manly men” on Internet forums are of no interest to me. But now a question arises in my mind.
Do those who chide others for responding harshly to LLPOF intend to follow their own counsel of “speaking reasonably” and “helping him out of the ditch?” If not, then all those words amount to empty pontification, in my estimation.
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Nottawayfer
When I first read LLPOF's post, I didn't even bother to resond. I truly believe vpw was in for the money and lust, not love. But that doesn't mean that every time someone who is riled up in protecting his legacy has to rile me up. If LLPOF wants too believe vpw sits at God's right hand, let them. You can't convince a man against his will.
Remember the line from a famous move "If you build it, they will come." Well LLPOF was waiting for the challenges. Do you think LLPOF actually believed they would change people to be vpw supporters? Do we actually think we can change vpw supporters to be like us? Depends on the individual. I was an apologist when I first came on this forum, but I was open to hear what people had to say because I knew it stunk a lot in twitville.
I guess what I'm getting at is that we shouldn't get our shorts in a wad or our panties twisted just because someone says something with which we disagree. There are a lot of us who want to expose the treachery of twi, but we don't have to get riled up about it. Just because somoeone thinks a certain way or says something doesn't mean it is so. That is why I don't even bother with Mike's threads anymore.
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Zixar
Apparently someone has been lighting the Kook-Magnet Beacon again...
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Linda Z
Garth:
It would be really nice if, when quoting, you'd state whom you're quoting instead of addressing me and then quoting someone else's words through your entire post. I appreciate the tone of Sir's posts, but I didn't write them and I don't agree with every word, so please don't make it look as if they're mine, okay?
Believe it or not, I'm not that concerned about LLPOF. I don't know him from a dust bunny under my bed. I neither love that dust bunny nor hate it. It's just there.
:)--> I'm much more concerned about those of you who've been around here for a long time...i.e., how a stranger, very possibly just trolling for a reaction, can get you so upset.
Long Gone, I'm not chiding anyone. I'm saying, "There but for the grace of God go a whole bunch of us, so why get so worked up over LLPOF's posts and call him names?"
I didn't bring up the Samaritan. I'm not out to "save" LLPOF, because I firmly believe that people get out of mindsets like his when they're good and ready. I simply don't see the need to crucify him just because he came here boldly declaring what many people here once thought. Some people sound as if he's at their back door with a bloody axe in his hand.
I'll ask my original question another way: What's LLPOF going to do, trick you into believing again that VPW's an upstanding guy? Convince you that every word he spoke was straight from the lips of God? No, I didn't think so. So what's the big threat?
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rascal
Linda...I spouted *company line* but I never attacked other posters...called them liars...assaulted their characters...labled them as servants of satan and against God...what liar is doing goes far beyond the company line.
If you and guess wanna be nice to him...fine...but it certainly does not behoove me to...I am not required by any stretch of the imagination to entertain such treatment by a rabid beast.
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excathedra
dear no-fencie, i don't have time at the moment to go back and see the posts but i saw yours to sirguess. i really honestly believe he was saying something kind and there is a miscommunciation
(i'm lucky, i know him)
later
take care
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shazdancer
Dear Linda and sirguess,
I can agree with you in this much. When someone's posts are as inflamatory as LLPOF's are, they don't rile me. Nor do I especially think that my responses will do much to change that person's mindset. But I post with a thought to those who might be lurking who haven't made up their minds on the matter.
As to people with terse responses, well, some don't feel that their actions have to "line up with the Word" any longer. And sometimes, when people have been abused, they feel empowered by stopping any future abuse in its tracks with strong words. I don't blame them -- mean people suck!
Regards,
Shaz
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Tom Strange
It's abundantly clear to me that LLPOF came in here looking for a fight. Walked right into the old GSC and yelled "the food stinks and the coffee is worse!" I personally think he needs to seek the help of a mental health professional if he isn't already. But I'm not going to chide the people for yelling back "we like the food, we like the coffee, and on top of that... the pie is quite tasty!"
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Tom Strange
And, of course, now LLPOF is sitting there in front of his computer laughing his arse off at how we start arguing with each other because of the way some people responded to him.
He's loving it and having a wonderful time.
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GarthP2000
Linda,
The only quote of yours that I responded to was this:
to which I responded to with quotes made by others to illustrate those 'making excuses' for LLPOF.
Read them again if this isn't clear. ... Ok?
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Tom Strange
Oh yeah... and Long Gone... again we agree. (you should be scared, very scared)
:D-->
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socks
Liar typos aren't really the issue. I love typos. Embrace them. Cares them. See?
:)-->
There are two issues I see immediately in regards to how you present your views as you have - accuracy, reliablity and integrity. Typos reflect on them.
Assuming you're serious, and I will, you invite people to fly to your city and meet with you for a witnessed and taped dicussion of important and serious matters in regards to VPW, the Way and apparently much more.
First - integrity and reliablity. I have no idea who you are or what validates your opinions, ideas and information. You haven't stated that. Put as a question - "what makes you a worthwhile candidate for such an investment of time and money?" What do you have to offer? Integrity hasn't been established, in the sense of the makeup and quality of what you have to offer. Neither has reliability. How reliable a source are you? While your offer is very aggressive it could be a complete waste of time if you're a bad source of information, worse still if you're just a well-meaning idiot who really has nothing to offer but simply wants to get something off his chest and considers it valiant to do so.
If the former you offer nothing but endless debate and possible personal humiliation to yourself. If the latter you could accomplish your challenge by simply carrying it out on GS in a "free" posting environment where you could 1) present your information, 2) explain and document it and 3) receive responses and discussion. And all for "free", no airline peanuts, little hassle. This fly up and see me sometime stuff just comes across as bluster and blow and more blow than anything.
So whether you're 1 or 2 of the above, or something else entirely, why not take me up on it? State your case, document and explain it, and let everyone who chooses have the benefit of it? Here. Now.
Accuracy - well, it would be at least a good will gesture towards establishing yourself as someone worth reading and visiting for such a serious challenge if you typed your ideas coherently. The fact that you don't doesn't tell me you're entirely out to lunch. It just indicates that perhaps you're in too big a hurry, rushing to get your ideas out without giving them the benefit of a second read. If that's the case, what does it say about your other ideas?
One thing about VPW you will probably know and remember - he was a big one for accuracy. In speech, print, you name it. An incorrectly spelled word...just one...in a Way Magazine and he'd be down everyone's throats. Why? "If you're not accurate on the little things you won't be accurate on the big things, the Word people!" If you're going to establish yourself so aggressively as a reliable and worthwhile source of anything resembling the Word, and do it in the same breath as VPW and his ministry, that would be a place to start - accurately rendering your contributions. Either way, I'm not a total word-nanny. I'll read what you have to say either way, if you'll say it. I'm just suggesting that if you're going to puff up your uh, chest and invite the whole world to a duke-out, make it at least appear like you've got something in your glove.
edited for .... tiepose of all manner and shape!
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