I'm not THAT exorcised over the whole thing, but, I think I can explain the bile being spewed out at JL et al.
Jeffy, no doubt trying to do his "bit" for the almighty (who I guess - despite the biblical rhetoric about the rocks speaking, etc.- is incapable of handling this sort of thing Himself), posted this letter - AGAIN - in a public forum which is replete with all sorts of shaded critiques and jabs at the ex-TWI community. WE'VE missed the mark (again!), we're indulging ourselves in a VICTIM mentality, we need to turn back to THE WURD! (rhymes with $%^&).
I for one have had enough of anointed (self-appointed) leaders pointing out my "weaknesses"
or ladeling out their unsolicited advice as to how to make myself acceptable to God.
If someone wants to get advice from (and finance) the likes of JL, MG, VF, CG, DS, or any of the other of the myriad of spin-off meisters, be my guest.
But when they post on a public forum and start berating and criticizing folks - unsolicited - they're asking for it. And I'm glad they're getting it. They've got it coming...
Ex10...I make it public because his letter was posted publicly...if Jeff is misrepresenting JAL by printing his letter against his wishes, then shame on him. I somehow think that it was posted with JAL's approval...I could be wrong, let's ask Jeff. Hey Jeff, is JAL upset because you posted his letter without permission? If not, he's fair game.
I understand that JAL is a personal friend of yours...believe it or not, he's a personal friend of mine also...but friend or no friend, I will not remain silent when I see elitism and egotism rearing it's ugly head...manipulating trusting people, in order to have a "flock" that reveres him.
Well this is very interesting. But I still like JAL and communicate with him via e-mail from time to time and he has sent me free tapes and I really enjoyed them. Love, Dovey
I thought of the mustard line myself (although I prefer mustard and onions), but I decided it was too STRANGE to put on ... but I guess your moniker covers a multitude of comments, Tom Strange 0-) Loved it ... cute little pooches, Dovie! With mustard or without ...
I guess they would be a hit on the low-carb diet, minus the bun ... but I digress...
Jeff - It's cool to know that John doesn't mind you posting his old form letters here, but you still haven't answered the question, "WHY do you do it?"
If he's really so hot to tell us how much he loves us, why don't you let him do it himself?
Today I sent the following by e-mail to John Lynn:
quote: Hi, John!
Jeff has been posting letters from you, and your e-mail address at the Greasespot Cafe, and he invited any of us who want to get in touch with you to do so. You and I haven't conversed in about seven years, so this is a sort of communication test.
First, I hope you are doing well!
The last time we communicated was by telephone in the evening after The Living Word Fellowship's congregational meeting. If you remember, that was the meeting where I publically repented of all the foolish promises and commitments I had made during my involvement with Momentus.
The last words you said to me were, "...you're being conned... uh... there's another call coming in... I'll get back to you."
Do you still think I was being conned? Why didn't you get back to me?
You should know, I am going to share this e-mail, along with any response or lack of response, with our mutual acquaintances at the Greasespot Cafe.
Your brother in Christ,
Steve Lortz
"Freedom is responsibility. Leadership is responsibility. A man who will not take responsibility is not free, nor can he lead." Thersites the Stoic
now they cant very well say the internet if off limits can they like twi did. this is an attack im sure , you know , but funny how it was started by one in their own rank and files.
who are they kidding ? they are sending out e-mails setting up those who will post and back him up here.
you know how you have to circle the wagons when attacked and all .
this is so lol .
I have an honest question
how many are AFRAID to post NOW???
oooo bad leader boy on the scene better wait and see who takes his side and hear the whole story with the numbers a winning!
he might pull out some of those heavy duty bible verses where God is involved and dam you or something and we are ALL AFRAID OF THAT!
lololololol safety in numbers guys here they come !! or he will just come and state how much he really loves us and his heart depends on the mood swing and who has ears to hear.
There are good reasons to oppose CES, but you make it sound like they've banned people from the Internet and are now coordinating a response to this thread.
HORSEHOCKEY.
You've misrpresented the past, you're misrepresenting the present... can the future be far off?
I wont fight them, an entire web site has been generated about the issues some have had with CES. they have plenty of support on grease spot , high rollers too and if not involved with CES directly in friendship and family or some other small cult alliance.
not to metion the really serious ones who are in it who have never been in twi now they are more than loyal lol !
Raf.
you know my opinion about this is you didnt have enough dealings with twi to see how this stuff played out in life and now your like so many were in twi for years, but in CES. Just enjoying your time and not seeing any real problems for yourself, just kind of enjoying them without getting too involved and you know defending them when you feel you should because they are important to you as a christian and you enjoy talking to them oh yeah baby they got charm for making friends and influencing people , we all did once.
then some got a little deeper.
Raf
it is a cult. and CES is worse than Twi in many many areas.
but I am not wasting my time on the whys and debate anymore I will leave all that filthy work to you, CES, and maybe Steve and jeff .
I found out in twi how it works and I will admit it all came to reality while involved in CES . you may not be able to see it I know I doubted the crap in twi for years. when we are blind we can not see ya know. I know the road your on bro. and as sorry as I am to watch it I know I can do nothing for you to convince you other wise.
I never felt it my job to get people out of a cult any more than I feel it is my job to defend one .
no not ban people from the net they can not do that that is what twi tried and failed . and yes I do believe they circle the wagons in their defense and call on all the tough and rough ones to make it stop and I also think they will succeed on grease spot if that will help your discomfort .
you for one and others.
loyal to the bone and willing to fight for it?
not me I got better things to do than prove a cult is a cult to those who live and breath for it .
and do not start with the typical personal attacks that shuts them up quick where ya learn that big boy?
huh? yeah . get real .
the reason they do not like the internet (read his interview on Pats site about how he feels about it !) is because they are NOT able to get the gut wretching personal crap they use against people to shut them up. oh they got connections and they know people the best remember ? you got that right the hard core cult heads KNOW how to play to win and they will !
I don't think Jeff is here to attack. I don't think John Lynn would come here to attack. I DO think they would come here to draw attention to their own site in an indirect attept at recruitment.
I think CES' biggest problem is the fact that they trust their own hearts, and believe their own hype.
The heart is deceitful above all things,and desperately wicked. Who can know it?
The Word of God is... the critic of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
If people think they can make the Word mean that they want It to mean, simply by putting forward a "logical", plausible argument, then they don't really have a critic, and their hearts deceive them.
The CES motto (the last time I looked) was "Speaking the truth in love".
The attitude I saw them display was: it must be true, WE spoke it; it must be loving, WE did it.
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Don'tFenceMeIn
All of the ministers that I know, Oldies, go out of their way NOT to malign other ministers.
So, no, I don't think they all do it.
If all the ones I hung out with did that, I'd be looking for a new set of ministers.
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ex10
Well, I know I recused myself, so just ignore me.
We all do what we gotta do. If anybody has a beef with John or Mark, or anybody else, take it up with them. Why make it public? if it's personal?
That's what I don't get.
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George Aar
ex10,
I'm not THAT exorcised over the whole thing, but, I think I can explain the bile being spewed out at JL et al.
Jeffy, no doubt trying to do his "bit" for the almighty (who I guess - despite the biblical rhetoric about the rocks speaking, etc.- is incapable of handling this sort of thing Himself), posted this letter - AGAIN - in a public forum which is replete with all sorts of shaded critiques and jabs at the ex-TWI community. WE'VE missed the mark (again!), we're indulging ourselves in a VICTIM mentality, we need to turn back to THE WURD! (rhymes with $%^&).
I for one have had enough of anointed (self-appointed) leaders pointing out my "weaknesses"
or ladeling out their unsolicited advice as to how to make myself acceptable to God.
If someone wants to get advice from (and finance) the likes of JL, MG, VF, CG, DS, or any of the other of the myriad of spin-off meisters, be my guest.
But when they post on a public forum and start berating and criticizing folks - unsolicited - they're asking for it. And I'm glad they're getting it. They've got it coming...
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ex10
I hear ya, Georgie.
I guess I'm just tired but, JAL etc, haven't posted here. Just zealots on their behalf.......snore...........
:P-->
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GrouchoMarxJr
Ex10...I make it public because his letter was posted publicly...if Jeff is misrepresenting JAL by printing his letter against his wishes, then shame on him. I somehow think that it was posted with JAL's approval...I could be wrong, let's ask Jeff. Hey Jeff, is JAL upset because you posted his letter without permission? If not, he's fair game.
I understand that JAL is a personal friend of yours...believe it or not, he's a personal friend of mine also...but friend or no friend, I will not remain silent when I see elitism and egotism rearing it's ugly head...manipulating trusting people, in order to have a "flock" that reveres him.
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JustThinking
UH quote:
"if Jeff is misrepresenting JAL by printing his letter against his wishes, then shame on him. I somehow think that it was posted with JAL's approval"
I have already asked Jeff about this on this thread but got no answer.
Disclaimer: I don't know JL or much about him. In fact, I had to ask on this thread for a history on the guy.
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WordWolf
JustThinking...
Technically,
if he ignores your question, he can't be said to have lied by saying that he
did it entirely on his own with no input from JAL.
It is possible that he's not deliberately ignoring your question,
and he's not attempting to mislead.
HOWEVER,
I've run into him on other boards,
posting messages that say
"Wow-I just discovered this website with some cool stuff and some interesting
doctrines. Can anyone here tell me anything about them?"
With a link to an official CES website.
I believe you can determine what you think of such posts on your own.
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JustThinking
WW,
I agree completely. No assumptions by his lack of answer. It would have nice to get one though. Oh well, his choice. Thank you for the extra insight.
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wyteduv58
Well this is very interesting. But I still like JAL and communicate with him via e-mail from time to time and he has sent me free tapes and I really enjoyed them. Love, Dovey
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ToadFriend
I like JAL ... but I LOVE that dachshund puppy on a hot dog bun ... he/she is precious! Okay, now back to our regularly scheduled program...
TF
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Tom Strange
Toady... you'd love it even more with a little mustard and relish!!!
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ToadFriend
I thought of the mustard line myself (although I prefer mustard and onions), but I decided it was too STRANGE to put on ... but I guess your moniker covers a multitude of comments, Tom Strange 0-) Loved it ... cute little pooches, Dovie! With mustard or without ...
I guess they would be a hit on the low-carb diet, minus the bun ... but I digress...
TF
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Jeff USAF RET
Hey folks!
Sorry for the delay in posting. I had sinus surgery a couple of weeks ago.
JAL is "cool" with me posting his letter here. It is posting on the Internet for all to read.
Please feel free to contact JAL at:
JALCES@aol.com
Only if you feel you need to, that is. He will listen to whatever you need to get off your chest.
I love the freedom we all now have to follow the Lord (Jesus) and not men!
Knowing Jesus is a wonderful and healing thing!
Yes, Jesus is his name and it's okay to call him that.
Here is a great article by John Lynn on:
As a Christian, is it wrong to address our Lord Jesus Christ as just “Jesus”?
http://www.truthortradition.com/modules.ph...article&sid=199
Keep the faith!
Sure love ya!
I better get to work!!!
Jeff
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Steve Lortz
Jeff - It's cool to know that John doesn't mind you posting his old form letters here, but you still haven't answered the question, "WHY do you do it?"
If he's really so hot to tell us how much he loves us, why don't you let him do it himself?
Love,
Steve
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Steve Lortz
Today I sent the following by e-mail to John Lynn:
I guess we'll see what we see.
Love,
Steve
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Jeff USAF RET
Hey Steve,
I showed John how to use GreaseSpot this AM.
He is waiting for his account to be made active.
Jeff
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mj412
he he
steve good luck .
been there .
love it .
now they cant very well say the internet if off limits can they like twi did. this is an attack im sure , you know , but funny how it was started by one in their own rank and files.
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Raf
I thought he was registered already. I know he posted once or twice, but maybe that was at Waydale.
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mj412
who are they kidding ? they are sending out e-mails setting up those who will post and back him up here.
you know how you have to circle the wagons when attacked and all .
this is so lol .
I have an honest question
how many are AFRAID to post NOW???
oooo bad leader boy on the scene better wait and see who takes his side and hear the whole story with the numbers a winning!
he might pull out some of those heavy duty bible verses where God is involved and dam you or something and we are ALL AFRAID OF THAT!
lololololol safety in numbers guys here they come !! or he will just come and state how much he really loves us and his heart depends on the mood swing and who has ears to hear.
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Raf
MJ,
There are good reasons to oppose CES, but you make it sound like they've banned people from the Internet and are now coordinating a response to this thread.
HORSEHOCKEY.
You've misrpresented the past, you're misrepresenting the present... can the future be far off?
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mj412
I wont fight them, an entire web site has been generated about the issues some have had with CES. they have plenty of support on grease spot , high rollers too and if not involved with CES directly in friendship and family or some other small cult alliance.
not to metion the really serious ones who are in it who have never been in twi now they are more than loyal lol !
Raf.
you know my opinion about this is you didnt have enough dealings with twi to see how this stuff played out in life and now your like so many were in twi for years, but in CES. Just enjoying your time and not seeing any real problems for yourself, just kind of enjoying them without getting too involved and you know defending them when you feel you should because they are important to you as a christian and you enjoy talking to them oh yeah baby they got charm for making friends and influencing people , we all did once.
then some got a little deeper.
Raf
it is a cult. and CES is worse than Twi in many many areas.
but I am not wasting my time on the whys and debate anymore I will leave all that filthy work to you, CES, and maybe Steve and jeff .
I found out in twi how it works and I will admit it all came to reality while involved in CES . you may not be able to see it I know I doubted the crap in twi for years. when we are blind we can not see ya know. I know the road your on bro. and as sorry as I am to watch it I know I can do nothing for you to convince you other wise.
I never felt it my job to get people out of a cult any more than I feel it is my job to defend one .
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mj412
no not ban people from the net they can not do that that is what twi tried and failed . and yes I do believe they circle the wagons in their defense and call on all the tough and rough ones to make it stop and I also think they will succeed on grease spot if that will help your discomfort .
you for one and others.
loyal to the bone and willing to fight for it?
not me I got better things to do than prove a cult is a cult to those who live and breath for it .
and do not start with the typical personal attacks that shuts them up quick where ya learn that big boy?
huh? yeah . get real .
the reason they do not like the internet (read his interview on Pats site about how he feels about it !) is because they are NOT able to get the gut wretching personal crap they use against people to shut them up. oh they got connections and they know people the best remember ? you got that right the hard core cult heads KNOW how to play to win and they will !
still making money off it too ! praise God!
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Steve Lortz
I don't think Jeff is here to attack. I don't think John Lynn would come here to attack. I DO think they would come here to draw attention to their own site in an indirect attept at recruitment.
I think CES' biggest problem is the fact that they trust their own hearts, and believe their own hype.
The heart is deceitful above all things,and desperately wicked. Who can know it?
The Word of God is... the critic of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
If people think they can make the Word mean that they want It to mean, simply by putting forward a "logical", plausible argument, then they don't really have a critic, and their hearts deceive them.
The CES motto (the last time I looked) was "Speaking the truth in love".
The attitude I saw them display was: it must be true, WE spoke it; it must be loving, WE did it.
Love,
Steve
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Raf
Apparently from you. You're the only one in this discussion employing that tactic.
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