I'm not sure how to vote. I think the fairly bright aspect was darkened to have reached the point of decision to go into the wc to start (myself included). However there was encouragement to acquire a college education prior to going into the wc so you had something to offer in a leadership position. So not sure which to vote.
My exposure to Way Corps leaders was somewhat minimal in the 90's, mainly because there were so few of them, and we were in a sparsely populated state and didn't get too many anyway.
For several years we had a Limb coordinator who was close to funcionally illiterate. He could barely read chapters from the blue book, which is not exactly college-level material. His wife covered for him in many situations, and unless you were around him a lot, you didn't know.
During the same time period we had a twig coordinator in another city who spoke and wrote as if she never attended high school.
(This is not a commentary on their "heart" or the kind of people that they were)
I would be tempted to ask if we were in the same state but that was not limited to my Limb. Visiting friends a couple of times exposed me to a few other corps folks. His LC was a lightweight too. My friend (who was a twig coordinator) said the LCs wife wrote all of the monthly letters, etc.
Like you, I was away from the "seat of power." Making the trek to listen to our LC teach was a labor of love to say the least. It's bad when you don't have much to say. It's worse when you take 80 minutes to say it! My heart went out to new people and those with toddlers. Pure misery.
My reason for the question, btw, was that some of the older corps I met seemed to be both good people and very capable. Not all but some. Maybe they were all driven out by King Loy I?
This is just my observation, but most of the intelligent corps would have been the ones asking all of the embarrassing questions to their leadership. It would stand to reason that they were the first ones to be "shown the door". :)-->
Our last leadership before we took the train outta town was stepford corpse. OMG. That is the only thing a few of my kids remember about twi(t) is being verbally abused by this nut. It was the last time they went.
JustThinking, you and I seem to have left close to each other in timing. Do you recall a magazine article by Kri**ina Wie**ille regarding college and corps training? More on that is a second.
While I do agree many of the corps was like Stepford people I think there was a push on obtaining an education so that you had secular skills to offer as a leader. Some of the lack of intelligence I saw was hidden below the self-imposed burden of being a LCM wannabe.
Few quotes:
(thinking she needed to change her major from premed to education due to the time the first would require...) "Thus began my progression of college majors, from premed to marine biology to biology to elementary education. My parents encouraged me at every step. Because they wanted me to make decisions for myself, I knew I could come to them for counsel but the final decision would still be up to me...Making decisions for myself did not make the transitions more comfortable, however. Even though I had been successful in high school, I did not feel "ready" for college...(quoted VPW) "There is no good, wholesome exposure to the world you can have that will not help make the Word of God live more fully for you."...(after graduation she worked for a couple of years in her profession) but I knew it was time for the next transition, this time into answering the call to serve as a wc minister...all those previous life's experiences contributed to my training."
And so this is part of why I said in my first post I was not sure as to how to vote. For what it's worth.
I know this is not what you're asking and I GET that you're wondering about their education level. But when I saw the question for the first time, the answer that came to me before knowing what you were really asking was that the Lord Jesus died for them so I think the Lord would consider them priceless.
My experience with corpse people was pretty limited - in 1992 I met an interium coprse girl who seemed pretty sharp - and who I have heard is married to clergy these days. She had good social skills - and appeared warm.
One of the WOWs was entering the corpse the following year - he was a small business owner, and a people person as well. He was later booted from corpse.
The interium corpse girl sent after the wow year to help run the twigs that had been spawned had multiple master's degrees, but was socially retarded. The only job she could find was in a Sabarros. I can't imagine she survived since that was a time that was the height of booting people out.
And, there was a coprse girl in the area who was in her mid 30's and worked at Boeing. I felt bad for her because she was all set to move out on her own, in her very first non-way living situation and then leadership made her move in with social retard corpse girl instead.
Great point. However, I guess I was thinking more of their competancy to lead a group of people than just their academic background. After all, I've met more than one educated fool. IMO, it takes many abilities to be a successful minister. Most of the newer corps I met seemed like they were in over their heads when it came to dealing with real life issues such as kids, marriage, careers, etc.
Hope,
I KNEW someone would be a window cleaner here! :=) I chose that one because I met several folks including corps when I first got in who bought a bucket and squeegie (How DO you spell that?) and proclaimed themselves business owners. Many didn't even seem to know what a real window cleaning business was. They'd just show up, spray water on a ground floor window and wipe it off. Ta da! Instant business. No insurance, no health insurance, no savings, etc. Just a wow-mobile and the clothes on their backs. It may work when you are in your early 20s and single but not when you start a family. I knew a man in his late 30s with a wife and kids at home still trying to make it that way. They barely made it week to week but kept proclaiming their "abundance." The kids all saw through it and bailed out when they could. So much for God's Word in Family. :(--> And this person was corps trying to tell others how to successfully fun a business and family? Yeah, right!
I think the real question is were the Corps folks qualified to do what they were sent to do.
While I was not in TWI after 82, my observation was that very few Way Corps met the minimum standards for leaders as laid out in Timothty and Titus - not their fault necessarily, but you cannot buy a "ministry" through a paid for training program - TWI or anywhere else.
Many folks were in it for all the wrong reasons, others had the desire and zeal, but the Way Corps training fell short of what they really needed to serve as ministers to God's people.
Then there were those rare few who were truly called to serve, and whether trained in the Way Corps or not, found a way to serve in spite of the obstacles that TWI put in front of them.
I forgot to answer your post. :=( I'm so sorry! Forgive me?
I don't remember the actual article but do remember her making similar comments. It might have been the article or on a tape. One has to wonder if the article would have been written if she had said "you know, I thought about being a wc minister but realized that God was calling me to be a librarian." ;-) Anything to recruit for the corps.
My impression is that the idea of going to college became more acceptable in the late 90s. The earlier part of the decade was still the "Leadership Tapes, we hate Geer" crusade. The lone exception that I saw was Don W. On one of the tapes from Word in B, he addressed parents preparing for the financial aspects of college. It was refreshing but, sadly, quite rare.
Could you elaborate on one thing you said please? "Some of the lack of intelligence I saw was hidden below the self-imposed burden of being a LCM wannabe." Does this mean they were bright but it was obscured by their screaming, LCM facade? Or their LCM imitation hid the fact that there wasn't much to them? Just wanted to make sure I understood you correctly.
I think that there are still good quality people in the Corps, but they definitely have mental problems since they are still in TWI. On the other hand, some people that I knew were intelligent and good have changed dramatically for the worse. I think that the Corps program attracted jerks when LCM was in charge, so a lot of them took over after more rational old-fashioned good people were leaving. There still were some good people that joined up during LCM's reign, but they were a lot more rare.
As to the question of the quality of their intelligence, I don't think it matters as much as their ability to be a good leader. I think that most lead by fear, so there wasn't anything good about that at all, even if they did accomplish their goals.
Forgive you, well since you asked so nicely. Nah, you had nothing for me to forgive man.
And that statement of mine makes no sense does it, goodness my. Well what I meant to say was I knew some of the corps had educations, as well as, life experiences but hid it below the LCM wannabe cover. I sometimes wondered if it was in an effort to not be called on the carpet for their ideas and carry through on things not sanctioned by their overseers. Then after awhile you just bury it believing what could you possible add that God hasn't already covered with your leadership. Since we were told they would receive and know what was best for us before we did ourselves. I think most followed acceptable guidelines and took up the flame spewing traits of LCM in an effort to just have some sort of life. I realize I am generalizing things quite a bit, and am only one person's opinion.
When I got involved in the mid 80's. The Corp that I met were great. It was not until I'd say 1993 in our area that Corp that had been in our area started moving out. They fired Limb Cord and brought in a hard a** (who is not around now because he decided after the LCM debacle to cut and run) and the sh8t hit the fan. Current corp at the time were place under microscopic exams and then shipped out and the replacements were real a***oles. Nowdays they pretty much leave people be otherwise they would total fold
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houseisarockin
I'm not sure how to vote. I think the fairly bright aspect was darkened to have reached the point of decision to go into the wc to start (myself included). However there was encouragement to acquire a college education prior to going into the wc so you had something to offer in a leadership position. So not sure which to vote.
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Ham
J.T., I think you missed a category that I observed: "can be used to prop a door open."
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JustThinking
Mr. H,
Hahahahahahahaha...
I had something like that at first and changed it. Maybe I'm too nice?
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houseisarockin
Was that why I was always assigned the door patrol?
--> 
:D-->
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Oakspear
My exposure to Way Corps leaders was somewhat minimal in the 90's, mainly because there were so few of them, and we were in a sparsely populated state and didn't get too many anyway.
For several years we had a Limb coordinator who was close to funcionally illiterate. He could barely read chapters from the blue book, which is not exactly college-level material. His wife covered for him in many situations, and unless you were around him a lot, you didn't know.
During the same time period we had a twig coordinator in another city who spoke and wrote as if she never attended high school.
(This is not a commentary on their "heart" or the kind of people that they were)
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JustThinking
Oak,
I would be tempted to ask if we were in the same state but that was not limited to my Limb. Visiting friends a couple of times exposed me to a few other corps folks. His LC was a lightweight too. My friend (who was a twig coordinator) said the LCs wife wrote all of the monthly letters, etc.
Like you, I was away from the "seat of power." Making the trek to listen to our LC teach was a labor of love to say the least. It's bad when you don't have much to say. It's worse when you take 80 minutes to say it! My heart went out to new people and those with toddlers. Pure misery.
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JustThinking
My reason for the question, btw, was that some of the older corps I met seemed to be both good people and very capable. Not all but some. Maybe they were all driven out by King Loy I?
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Teresa
This is just my observation, but most of the intelligent corps would have been the ones asking all of the embarrassing questions to their leadership. It would stand to reason that they were the first ones to be "shown the door".
:)-->
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gammacoffey
Our last leadership before we took the train outta town was stepford corpse. OMG. That is the only thing a few of my kids remember about twi(t) is being verbally abused by this nut. It was the last time they went.
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houseisarockin
JustThinking, you and I seem to have left close to each other in timing. Do you recall a magazine article by Kri**ina Wie**ille regarding college and corps training? More on that is a second.
While I do agree many of the corps was like Stepford people I think there was a push on obtaining an education so that you had secular skills to offer as a leader. Some of the lack of intelligence I saw was hidden below the self-imposed burden of being a LCM wannabe.
Few quotes:
(thinking she needed to change her major from premed to education due to the time the first would require...) "Thus began my progression of college majors, from premed to marine biology to biology to elementary education. My parents encouraged me at every step. Because they wanted me to make decisions for myself, I knew I could come to them for counsel but the final decision would still be up to me...Making decisions for myself did not make the transitions more comfortable, however. Even though I had been successful in high school, I did not feel "ready" for college...(quoted VPW) "There is no good, wholesome exposure to the world you can have that will not help make the Word of God live more fully for you."...(after graduation she worked for a couple of years in her profession) but I knew it was time for the next transition, this time into answering the call to serve as a wc minister...all those previous life's experiences contributed to my training."
And so this is part of why I said in my first post I was not sure as to how to vote. For what it's worth.
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Hope R.
If window cleaning was in their future it wouldn't be so bad. At least they'd have a real job!
(from the wife of a window cleaner - check it out...)
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waterbuffalo
JustThinking,
I know this is not what you're asking and I GET that you're wondering about their education level. But when I saw the question for the first time, the answer that came to me before knowing what you were really asking was that the Lord Jesus died for them so I think the Lord would consider them priceless.
Just my thought,
Love,
WB
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Mocha Tree Girl
My experience with corpse people was pretty limited - in 1992 I met an interium coprse girl who seemed pretty sharp - and who I have heard is married to clergy these days. She had good social skills - and appeared warm.
One of the WOWs was entering the corpse the following year - he was a small business owner, and a people person as well. He was later booted from corpse.
The interium corpse girl sent after the wow year to help run the twigs that had been spawned had multiple master's degrees, but was socially retarded. The only job she could find was in a Sabarros. I can't imagine she survived since that was a time that was the height of booting people out.
And, there was a coprse girl in the area who was in her mid 30's and worked at Boeing. I felt bad for her because she was all set to move out on her own, in her very first non-way living situation and then leadership made her move in with social retard corpse girl instead.
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JustThinking
Waterbuffalo,
Great point. However, I guess I was thinking more of their competancy to lead a group of people than just their academic background. After all, I've met more than one educated fool. IMO, it takes many abilities to be a successful minister. Most of the newer corps I met seemed like they were in over their heads when it came to dealing with real life issues such as kids, marriage, careers, etc.
Hope,
I KNEW someone would be a window cleaner here! :=) I chose that one because I met several folks including corps when I first got in who bought a bucket and squeegie (How DO you spell that?) and proclaimed themselves business owners. Many didn't even seem to know what a real window cleaning business was. They'd just show up, spray water on a ground floor window and wipe it off. Ta da! Instant business. No insurance, no health insurance, no savings, etc. Just a wow-mobile and the clothes on their backs. It may work when you are in your early 20s and single but not when you start a family. I knew a man in his late 30s with a wife and kids at home still trying to make it that way. They barely made it week to week but kept proclaiming their "abundance." The kids all saw through it and bailed out when they could. So much for God's Word in Family.
:(--> And this person was corps trying to tell others how to successfully fun a business and family? Yeah, right!
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houseisarockin
Okay JustThinking, you win.
:D--> I am leaning more towards your understanding.
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Goey
I think the real question is were the Corps folks qualified to do what they were sent to do.
While I was not in TWI after 82, my observation was that very few Way Corps met the minimum standards for leaders as laid out in Timothty and Titus - not their fault necessarily, but you cannot buy a "ministry" through a paid for training program - TWI or anywhere else.
Many folks were in it for all the wrong reasons, others had the desire and zeal, but the Way Corps training fell short of what they really needed to serve as ministers to God's people.
Then there were those rare few who were truly called to serve, and whether trained in the Way Corps or not, found a way to serve in spite of the obstacles that TWI put in front of them.
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JustThinking
Goey,
All good points. Before leaving, did you know corps folks who were capable, in your opinion? If so, do you know if they stayed in TWI?
JT
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JustThinking
House,
I forgot to answer your post. :=( I'm so sorry! Forgive me?
I don't remember the actual article but do remember her making similar comments. It might have been the article or on a tape. One has to wonder if the article would have been written if she had said "you know, I thought about being a wc minister but realized that God was calling me to be a librarian." ;-) Anything to recruit for the corps.
My impression is that the idea of going to college became more acceptable in the late 90s. The earlier part of the decade was still the "Leadership Tapes, we hate Geer" crusade. The lone exception that I saw was Don W. On one of the tapes from Word in B, he addressed parents preparing for the financial aspects of college. It was refreshing but, sadly, quite rare.
Could you elaborate on one thing you said please? "Some of the lack of intelligence I saw was hidden below the self-imposed burden of being a LCM wannabe." Does this mean they were bright but it was obscured by their screaming, LCM facade? Or their LCM imitation hid the fact that there wasn't much to them? Just wanted to make sure I understood you correctly.
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Mister P-Mosh
I think that there are still good quality people in the Corps, but they definitely have mental problems since they are still in TWI. On the other hand, some people that I knew were intelligent and good have changed dramatically for the worse. I think that the Corps program attracted jerks when LCM was in charge, so a lot of them took over after more rational old-fashioned good people were leaving. There still were some good people that joined up during LCM's reign, but they were a lot more rare.
As to the question of the quality of their intelligence, I don't think it matters as much as their ability to be a good leader. I think that most lead by fear, so there wasn't anything good about that at all, even if they did accomplish their goals.
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houseisarockin
Forgive you, well since you asked so nicely. Nah, you had nothing for me to forgive man.
And that statement of mine makes no sense does it, goodness my. Well what I meant to say was I knew some of the corps had educations, as well as, life experiences but hid it below the LCM wannabe cover. I sometimes wondered if it was in an effort to not be called on the carpet for their ideas and carry through on things not sanctioned by their overseers. Then after awhile you just bury it believing what could you possible add that God hasn't already covered with your leadership. Since we were told they would receive and know what was best for us before we did ourselves. I think most followed acceptable guidelines and took up the flame spewing traits of LCM in an effort to just have some sort of life. I realize I am generalizing things quite a bit, and am only one person's opinion.
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Mr Moonlight
When I got involved in the mid 80's. The Corp that I met were great. It was not until I'd say 1993 in our area that Corp that had been in our area started moving out. They fired Limb Cord and brought in a hard a** (who is not around now because he decided after the LCM debacle to cut and run) and the sh8t hit the fan. Current corp at the time were place under microscopic exams and then shipped out and the replacements were real a***oles. Nowdays they pretty much leave people be otherwise they would total fold
Still, spit'n out the kool aid
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JustThinking
Mr M,
Did you see them in difficult situations? Leading a group is a skill but helping others through life's hard spots is an art. Just curious.
JT
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