Sorry guys but this is a sad thread. To think that the greatest aspect of holy spirit given on the day of Pentecost is being ripped to shreds.
Speaking in tongues is a commandment of the Lord. If you want to learn how to get over being nervous (and I have to eay everyone I knew was nervous in the beginning) teach a children's fellowship. You would be amazed how it will flow from you.
You were trying to get approval from people.
IMHO
For those of you who no longer belive, that is more sad. What a wonderful way to give to The Body of Christ without even thinking about it.
Here's a link to a site with basic info on many religions and belief systems. I think the Way International is even there, but am not positive about that.
God continues to bless and care for us, whether we speak in tongues or not....apparently, according to the posters here, he has blessed and continued to guide us since leaving whether we chose to continue this or any other twi doctrinal practices or not.....and judging from the comments of the posters present, it would appear that he isn`t necessarilly any more pleased with those who are doing it than we who are not.....
You enjoy it? Great continue to do so.....but it is silly to think that others are ripping anything to shreds .....
I suppose the fact that the most evil people that it has ever been my misfortune to associate with on this planet were the ones that advocted it the most strongly....I mean shoot sit sure didn`t seem to enhance THEIR spirituality or abate their willingness to indulge in evil destruction of folks.....
Really, it taints any desire for me to participate in anything they recomend as a method of enhanceing my spirituality ....
Sorry guys but this is a sad thread. To think that the greatest aspect of holy spirit given on the day of Pentecost is being ripped to shreds.
Who says that what happened on the day of pentecost was anything even closely approximating what we learned (oops excuse me--were lead into..)during session 12?
I have severe reservations about them being the same experience at all
So whats a 'pinky' Oakspear (seeing as we seem to be into name calling now..geeesh)
YOU'RE b*tching about name calling? How's that for the pot calling the kettle black?
Actually a "pinky" isn't anything specific. Where I grew up we would attach a nonsense name to someone that we disagreed with, especially if we thought that person was acting foolishly. "Buckwheat" and "Spanky" are favorites of mine, as is "Zippy".
While I respect your opinion and belief about speaking in tongues, and Christianity in general, I have nothing but disdain for the way you get your point across, and for your ignorant attacks on my friend, rascal.
quote:
And could you please enlighten us as to what a 'Wiccan' believes, never know I might change Gods ??!!
Allan, no cover for lonliness here....(hard to be lonely in a family of 9 living in a 1 bathroom home ;-)
Very silly to try to tell folks here who are enjoying prosperous lives, full of God`s gracious goodness and blessings ... that it just ain`t so cause they aren`t doing it the way twi said we had to....lol
Sorry guys but this is a sad thread. To think that the greatest aspect of holy spirit given on the day of Pentecost is being ripped to shreds.
Who says that what happened on the day of pentecost was anything even closely approximating what we learned (oops excuse me--were lead into..)during session 12?
I have severe reservations about them being the same experience at all
Exactly, on Pentecost everyone in the area (room) understood what was being said even if the speakers did not.
Sorry guys but this is a sad thread. To think that the greatest aspect of holy spirit given on the day of Pentecost is being ripped to shreds.
Who says that what happened on the day of pentecost was anything even closely approximating what we learned (oops excuse me--were lead into..)during session 12?
I have severe reservations about them being the same experience at all
I also have serious reservations - that such an event even happened at all.
Such an event was not shared nor believed among the various movements comprising the early Christians.
While Paul writes of "tongues", he accords no explicit nor weighty attachment nor significance to "The Day of Pentecost" as the pseudonymous writer(s) of "Acts" writing in 150 AD, and those following...
Danyoucannotsee, maybe it should have been translated "cloven hooves with which to kick the tire"... is that it in the Estangelo Aramaic? Should I send a letter to Mel Gibson's web site?
I have serious reservations that you really only exist here because I perceive it in my mind !!- quote..Shirley Maclean (founder of "you only exist because I can see you") !!
I have a 3 yr old nephew whose mother speaks only Russian to him and whose father speaks only English. Half of the time he speaks niehter of them understand what he is saying. He has a made up language which to us non-Russian speaking relatives sounds like Russian. We look to his mother to see what he has said and she shrugs and says he is just making up words. Yes it really is remarkable what us kids could do.
I started doing what I thought was SIT at the age of 5. By the time I was a young adult my "tounge" had change a number of times, each one being rather elaborate. I have gone over this many times with people here and in the real world with no real satisfactory answers.
Perhaps I will come back with some of those questions again, but deep down I know they can't be answered. The only way to confirm your SIT is real is through you faith, which isn't realy a confirmation at all.
So as for Lorna, one must have faith that there is a "body of Christ" in order to think that they are doing something that is edifying such a body. So we can't really be ripping anyting to shreds as long as you still have faith it is real unless the ideas expressed here are in some way causing you to doubt. I doubt that they are, so you have nothing to worry about.
I never saw the big deal with speaking in tongues. It seemed contrived to me (as did interpretation and prophecy).
Tounges was pretty much non-existant in the church for about 1900 years and did not come into the 'mainstream' until the Pentecostal Movement started in the early 1900s.
Since there was no history or standard for comparison/authentication passed down from the early church, who's to say that what we did in TWI was the genuine deal? I doubt that it was. Which is not to say that the real deal does not exist. It could, but I lean more to the cessationist view nowdays.
From my own observations, I don't see where I was any better off spiritually or otherwise when I was speaking in tongues vs when I was not. And I also don't see where folks who "SIT daily" are any better Christians or any more spiritual that those who don't. Some of the most mean-spirited Christian folks I ever met "spoke in tongues daily". And some of the nicest never have.
Furthermore, what we experienced in Session 12 is a far cry from what is recorded in the Bible as happening on Pentecost. One was taught and learned in a class that we paid money for, while the other was a true movement of God.
So Goey..when you say you lean more to the 'cessation theory' of s.i.t. you are saying you believe it died out with the apostles ?
This is what Mormons, Jws' believe.
And many Baptists, Lutherans, Episcopalians, etc ...
What I am saying is that I am not so sure that that what we learned in TWI was the real deal. I 'lean' to the cessasionist view of SIT.
Of course if cessasionist doctrine is true, then it would mean that all SIT today is not genuine, which is a possibility that I am sure you wouldn't even dare to examine or explore. God forbid that we examine the sacred cow - only defend it.
I wonder if the *greatness* of tongues was maybe more of a feeling that it was a seal of aproval on the ministry...proof that we felt we were on the right track.
I have not seen a lack in my life for not continuing to sit, as a matter of fact things continue to improve....so I can`t where God cares whether I do or I don`t.
I have not seen a lack in my life for not continuing to sit, as a matter of fact things continue to improve....so I can`t where God cares whether I do or I don`t.
AMEN, Sistah! :D-->
I wonder, too, if vee pee thought that if it was possible to get people to "fake it" or think that they were really doing it then he would have them hooked. I mean, if you're willing to LIE for acceptance, then they really have you hook, line and sinker, don't they?
Of course if cessasionist doctrine is true, then it would mean that all SIT today is not genuine, which is a possibility that I am sure you wouldn't even dare to examine or explore. God forbid that we examine the sacred cow - only defend it.
Goey I think you're being kinda wishy washy.
I think you'd have a stronger argument to just say SIT died with the apostles and what we do is counterfeit.
Or, show us the genuine. Then at least we'd have something to compare our counterfeit tongues to.
As the old VP saying goes, "with the coming of the greater, the lesser terminates."
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rascal
That is great David, I do NOT begrudge you that privelege or pleasure....nor deny it`s value to you at all.....
I am glad that we are now free to chose what we enjoy and works for us.
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Allan
So whats a 'pinky' Oakspear (seeing as we seem to be into name calling now..geeesh)
And could you please enlighten us as to what a 'Wiccan' believes, never know I might change Gods ??!!
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Allan
GC-bless ya, I just 'stir the pot at times'
It helps keep GS interesting and keeps the Diazbros and Cherished Childs of GS fame keepin' on comin' back !!
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LornaDoone
Sorry guys but this is a sad thread. To think that the greatest aspect of holy spirit given on the day of Pentecost is being ripped to shreds.
Speaking in tongues is a commandment of the Lord. If you want to learn how to get over being nervous (and I have to eay everyone I knew was nervous in the beginning) teach a children's fellowship. You would be amazed how it will flow from you.
You were trying to get approval from people.
IMHO
For those of you who no longer belive, that is more sad. What a wonderful way to give to The Body of Christ without even thinking about it.
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Bramble
Allan
Here's a link to a site with basic info on many religions and belief systems. I think the Way International is even there, but am not positive about that.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/
Or you can try google.
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rascal
Lorna, you are grieving needlessly.
God continues to bless and care for us, whether we speak in tongues or not....apparently, according to the posters here, he has blessed and continued to guide us since leaving whether we chose to continue this or any other twi doctrinal practices or not.....and judging from the comments of the posters present, it would appear that he isn`t necessarilly any more pleased with those who are doing it than we who are not.....
You enjoy it? Great continue to do so.....but it is silly to think that others are ripping anything to shreds .....
I suppose the fact that the most evil people that it has ever been my misfortune to associate with on this planet were the ones that advocted it the most strongly....I mean shoot sit sure didn`t seem to enhance THEIR spirituality or abate their willingness to indulge in evil destruction of folks.....
Really, it taints any desire for me to participate in anything they recomend as a method of enhanceing my spirituality ....
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Allan
People can say they are 'blessed and happy' but in my experience that can often be a 'cover' for loneliness, unsureness, bitterness etc..
I found s.i.t . alot helped me through much of that.
I loved the 'surrendering' thread.The worship side of church really helps with that..
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mstar1
Who says that what happened on the day of pentecost was anything even closely approximating what we learned (oops excuse me--were lead into..)during session 12?
I have severe reservations about them being the same experience at all
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Oakspear
Actually a "pinky" isn't anything specific. Where I grew up we would attach a nonsense name to someone that we disagreed with, especially if we thought that person was acting foolishly. "Buckwheat" and "Spanky" are favorites of mine, as is "Zippy".
While I respect your opinion and belief about speaking in tongues, and Christianity in general, I have nothing but disdain for the way you get your point across, and for your ignorant attacks on my friend, rascal.
The link is posted above by another GSer.Link to comment
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Allan
Oh I get it..like the handle 'Oakspear'
Thanks for the enlightenment !
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Oakspear
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rascal
Thanks dear ((( oak ))) you are a gentleman.
Allan, no cover for lonliness here....(hard to be lonely in a family of 9 living in a 1 bathroom home ;-)
Very silly to try to tell folks here who are enjoying prosperous lives, full of God`s gracious goodness and blessings ... that it just ain`t so cause they aren`t doing it the way twi said we had to....lol
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def59
Exactly, on Pentecost everyone in the area (room) understood what was being said even if the speakers did not.
What we learned was something else.
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TheInvisibleDan
I also have serious reservations - that such an event even happened at all.
Such an event was not shared nor believed among the various movements comprising the early Christians.
While Paul writes of "tongues", he accords no explicit nor weighty attachment nor significance to "The Day of Pentecost" as the pseudonymous writer(s) of "Acts" writing in 150 AD, and those following...
Danny
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Tom Strange
Danyoucannotsee, maybe it should have been translated "cloven hooves with which to kick the tire"... is that it in the Estangelo Aramaic? Should I send a letter to Mel Gibson's web site?
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Allan
I have serious reservations that you really only exist here because I perceive it in my mind !!- quote..Shirley Maclean (founder of "you only exist because I can see you") !!
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lindyhopper
I have a 3 yr old nephew whose mother speaks only Russian to him and whose father speaks only English. Half of the time he speaks niehter of them understand what he is saying. He has a made up language which to us non-Russian speaking relatives sounds like Russian. We look to his mother to see what he has said and she shrugs and says he is just making up words. Yes it really is remarkable what us kids could do.
I started doing what I thought was SIT at the age of 5. By the time I was a young adult my "tounge" had change a number of times, each one being rather elaborate. I have gone over this many times with people here and in the real world with no real satisfactory answers.
Perhaps I will come back with some of those questions again, but deep down I know they can't be answered. The only way to confirm your SIT is real is through you faith, which isn't realy a confirmation at all.
So as for Lorna, one must have faith that there is a "body of Christ" in order to think that they are doing something that is edifying such a body. So we can't really be ripping anyting to shreds as long as you still have faith it is real unless the ideas expressed here are in some way causing you to doubt. I doubt that they are, so you have nothing to worry about.
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Goey
I never saw the big deal with speaking in tongues. It seemed contrived to me (as did interpretation and prophecy).
Tounges was pretty much non-existant in the church for about 1900 years and did not come into the 'mainstream' until the Pentecostal Movement started in the early 1900s.
Since there was no history or standard for comparison/authentication passed down from the early church, who's to say that what we did in TWI was the genuine deal? I doubt that it was. Which is not to say that the real deal does not exist. It could, but I lean more to the cessationist view nowdays.
From my own observations, I don't see where I was any better off spiritually or otherwise when I was speaking in tongues vs when I was not. And I also don't see where folks who "SIT daily" are any better Christians or any more spiritual that those who don't. Some of the most mean-spirited Christian folks I ever met "spoke in tongues daily". And some of the nicest never have.
Furthermore, what we experienced in Session 12 is a far cry from what is recorded in the Bible as happening on Pentecost. One was taught and learned in a class that we paid money for, while the other was a true movement of God.
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Allan
So Goey..when you say you lean more to the 'cessation theory' of s.i.t. you are saying you believe it died out with the apostles ?
This is what Mormons, Jws' believe.
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Goey
And many Baptists, Lutherans, Episcopalians, etc ...
What I am saying is that I am not so sure that that what we learned in TWI was the real deal. I 'lean' to the cessasionist view of SIT.
Of course if cessasionist doctrine is true, then it would mean that all SIT today is not genuine, which is a possibility that I am sure you wouldn't even dare to examine or explore. God forbid that we examine the sacred cow - only defend it.
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rascal
You make a good point Goey.
I wonder if the *greatness* of tongues was maybe more of a feeling that it was a seal of aproval on the ministry...proof that we felt we were on the right track.
I have not seen a lack in my life for not continuing to sit, as a matter of fact things continue to improve....so I can`t where God cares whether I do or I don`t.
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Belle
AMEN, Sistah!
:D-->
I wonder, too, if vee pee thought that if it was possible to get people to "fake it" or think that they were really doing it then he would have them hooked. I mean, if you're willing to LIE for acceptance, then they really have you hook, line and sinker, don't they?
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Ham
Another thought:
The Vey's teaching on SIT, that it is so EASY to do, and that it cannot be counterfiet- greatly minimizes their actual role in DELIVERING the result.
I have heard several people being told to wait for the class to SIT.
Why?
Wouldn't need any stinking classes then, would they?
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oldiesman
I think you'd have a stronger argument to just say SIT died with the apostles and what we do is counterfeit.
Or, show us the genuine. Then at least we'd have something to compare our counterfeit tongues to.
As the old VP saying goes, "with the coming of the greater, the lesser terminates."
Show us the real deal, if you have it...
:)-->
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