I would like to invite the "goeys' and 'Rascals' to be more 'forthcoming' with what they believe personally 'faith-wise'
My real intent has been to 'unmask' people for what they really 'hold to' not what they are portraying.
As I said 'Rascal' made out she was a Christian.
Goey was/is either Jehovah Witness, Mormon.
Some of you are 'Wiccans' (witches) and pagans by your own admission.
Now..that is your walk, but if you try to discredit my beliefs because of your agenda..then don't get upset if'n some of us want to 'defend the Faith'
Allan there is nothing new about someone charging onto the scene in attempt to convert the forum to "the word". It was attempted many times over at Waydale and in the early days of Gspot. You are one in a very long line of self appointed "deliverers". Also Its curious that you are here to 'defend the Faith'. What I want to know is who asked you to ?
I mean its just a bunch of "dead wood" and lots of "chaff" in here. "Rejecters of the truth" and people who have "thrown the baby out with the bathwater". Feel free to use these phrases as those who came before you liked to employ these descriptions though I don't think they accomplished much of anything. But when utterred from the lips (or written from the fingertips) of the self anointed defender of the truth they have a particularly entertaining ring.
I been reading where some want proff that speaking in tongues is real
All proff whether proff about tongues being real or not real is done in each person's heart
You see yes I can speak in tongues and its real to me but you are not me
Its like this God could tell me something will happen in a dream, prophecy or what ever way and it comes to happen
Now this would build believe in my heart but you might say it was just something that happens every etc years and I just got lucky or I just use math to help me see what will happen
It just like war the odds are that USA will get in a war on our own grounds
So if I prophecy it you could either believe my words were prophecy or just a matter of odds
All proff is done in each person heart
Take DNA I do believe that Six points in DNA mean anything because many would math on six points to me
But you may trust science more than me and that might be proff in your heart but not my heart
I would like to invite the "goeys' and 'Rascals' to be more 'forthcoming' with what they believe personally 'faith-wise'
Alan, I have never hidden anything here. However, I have no intention of giving you or anyone "Goey's Articles of Faith" If you want to know some about what I believe so that you can label me, unmask me, or whatever, then search the archives in Doctrinal and About the Way , and read my posts. And try to read the black part and not the spaces in between.
quote:
My real intent has been to 'unmask' people for what they really 'hold to' not what they are portraying.
Your quest presumes that certain folks need unmasking and that you have the ability to unmask them. I suspect that neither is true. But hey, thanks for the heads up.
quote:
Goey was/is either Jehovah Witness, Mormon.
Is this a statement of fact, a guess, or are you fishing?
Excuse me while I wipe up the coffee that I just spewed on my keyboard!
There's a small minority of posters here who define post-TWI "truth" as the exact amount of TWI-doctrine that they themselves have retained.
Yes its typically a subtractive process. They subtract and remove the "problem" teachings and reshuffle the remaining ideas "to fit" thereby achieving the proverbial "mathematical exactness and scientific precision" of which "doctor" spoke. Now exactly what teachings they remove or how they reorganize things to "fit" is not known and is most likely a process driven by emotion as opposed to logic or even some "working the word" process. So its like "hey that law of believeing didn't really work as advertised but instead of holding VPW responsible for it we'll
just 'throw it out' or at least the sections we don't understand and start over. Isn't god wonderful ?". Now they won't admit that VPW had it all wrong or examine other teachings of his (well what he claimed to be his anyway). They just float VP a pass and knit up the gaping holes in the teaching with some emotional BS to
make it sound okay to themselves and others.
And of course these people expect others to readily accept this repackaged "lean and mean" truth as if it were what "Doctor really meant for us to have". Its an illness in my opinion. Using TWI as a sole source for everything and not being able to detach from it even when much of what TWI taught still did not result in the "abundant life".
Reminds me of II Corinthians 10:12.
"For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that
commend themselves: but they, measuring themselves by themselves, and, comparing
themselves among themselves, are not wise."
quote:
I know exWayfers who at 50 don't have a pot to p***s in yet claim they are an example of the "Abundant life" ! They simply must be sick because they are basically living as they did when they were stacked 4 to an apartment as WOWs. There is no progression in their lives, no advancement, nothing to show for all those years in service to TWI. Yet instead of being honest about their situation they hold onto to their SNS tapes or their PFAL syllabus and accuse others of having a problem or a devil spirit and so on. But where is the abundance ? Where is the health ? "working the blue book" won't get you either. And serving the memory of VPW is not going to bring back the "Good ole days" or one's youth. Wake up and be an individual with your own goals and ideas. Its far more satisfying and pleasing in the eyes of God than following the ghost of some rogue preacher who stole from others and lied pathologically to his congregation as he profited financially from the hard work of optimistic, energetic youth who wanted to make a difference. VPW was dirt.. the worst kind.
Another thought (or maybe the same thought that was expressed pages ago and I missed!) about speaking tongues:
If there is such a thing as "genuine" speaking in tongues in the church, which I am not convinced one way or another, I am convinced that most folks in TWI weren't doing it.
Speaking in tongues in the modern era has been largely an ecstatic experience: somebody "gets the spirit" and usually speaks in a highly emotional manner. Right or wrong Wierwille sought to make the experience "decent and in order" and devoid of emotion, to reduce it to a formula, to frame it within a pre-set list of steps to be called upon at any time to perform.
Is speaking in tongues as an emotional or ecstatic response to the presence of God necessarily indecent or out of order?
So many people that I saw, especially in the nineties, had no desire to speak in tongues, and weren't "feeling" anything, but were doing what was expected of them. Children of grads often fell into this group, doing what their parents expected of them.
There were many people, one of my own children included, who said the exact same thing every time that they spoke in tongues. I would sometimes silently subvocalize what they were saying, and hit it dead on every time. Or others would repeat the same half dozen, or even two or three, syllables over and over. Genuine? May-be...doubt it though.
If there is such a thing as "genuine" speaking in tongues in the church, which I am not convinced one way or another, I am convinced that most folks in TWI weren't doing it.
Speaking in tongues in the modern era has been largely an ecstatic experience: somebody "gets the spirit" and usually speaks in a highly emotional manner. Right or wrong Wierwille sought to make the experience "decent and in order" and devoid of emotion, to reduce it to a formula, to frame it within a pre-set list of steps to be called upon at any time to perform.
Oak -- Well -- I'll tell ya ------------
I believe in it whole-heartedly. I do it daily, and since I don't go to any sort of fellowship (these days), it is my one connection with the God I believe in (I respect your decision to not believe in Him), and because of that I don't have to put up with the doctrinal junk that most churches promote these days.
Meebe most in twi faked it. I dunno -- could be. I never did, and as a matter of fact -- in exceller (sp?) sessions in the intermediate class, I was always called on to *do the duty* so the newbies could see how it was done.
Now -- I'm not tooting my own horn here, but I will say that it is a very real and viable entity that (while transcending logic), is much more than just a spiritual placebo meant to placate those who have no real life on their own.
Docvic did his best to put the boundaries, and blinders on it -- and certainly some bought into that arguement. The ones that did so were the *used car salesmen* who would try to sell you a lemon, and proclaim it to be a tasty strawberry instead.
And fyi --- I NEVER HAVE TO GET IN THE SPIRIT to start SIT'ing.
Believe it or not, it is second nature with me, and if ya wanna know the truth -- I rarely pray with my understanding any more -- it is always in tongues. I feel I am understood better that way.
Now -- I know you are agnostic at best, and I am not belittling you for that by any means. I'm taking what I quoted from you with a grain of salt, cause I know you make exceptions to the ideas you espouse, as do I. :)-->
So Goey..whats wrong with just coming out and saying I'm a JW or Mormon etc..
At least lurkers can see and read your posts on topics like s.i.t. KNOWING what religion you have come from/gone back to etc..yes even 'wiccas' (although as you said..some don't want it known(sorry,don't profess) to be witches !!
I just wonder what else (some) of you are 'hiding' ??
Diasbro..certainly not my intention to turn GS into a 'Word' forum, I wouldn't be that naive,but as stated, if people clearly show what 'angle' they are coming from when they post their comments, you know 'transparency' like they all say t.w.i. should have been doing, then I have no problem !
Just trying to be helpful here, Allan. You are very far off the mark on goey. If I were him, I would, like him, efuse to dignify your incredible musings with a response.
Me, I'm a Christian. Good enough for you? Geez. And I most definitely threw out the bathwater. Interestingly, THERE WAS NO BABY IN THERE.
So long before I took PFAL and was led into SIT by a group of travelling christians who were basically a bunch of hippies doing the van thing around the country. It took all of 10 minutes for me to SIT and this was counting their explanation of the biblical precedents asscociated with tongues. They had a very small phamplet that laid out some verses with some one or two lines comments and that was it in terms of "teaching material". After the guy explained he said I could do it on my own if I wanted. And that was that.
Later when I took PFAL I mentioned to one of the class leader types that I was already SIT and of course he probably thought it was counterfeit and asked me to refrain from it until session 12. He also asked me to keep quiet about and not tell other students. I thought all of this to be odd though later it became clear that he wanted PFAL to get the credit for my SIT activity. But after session 12 I told everyone that I had been able to SIT for quite some time and proceeded to explain how it happened. 10 minutes compared to 12 sessions ? I later found out that the class support people had been assigned to listen to "my tongues" during session 12 to determine if they were authentic or not. Hilarious.
So Goey..whats wrong with just coming out and saying I'm a JW or Mormon etc..
You were answered already. In this thread alone, there's multiple posts
on pages 6 & 7. It doesn't endear you to others to keep asking the same
questions over and over IF THEY HAVE BEEN ANSWERED.
That means either
A) You disrespect the posters and their posts when they DO answer
B) You are unable AND unwilling to understand "what is written". This can be
overcome with effort-you are not undertaking that effort.
C) You disbelieve the posts-thus calling the posters liars.
It surprises you that you people don't play your game?
quote:
At least lurkers can see and read your posts on topics like s.i.t.
They can read his posts NOW and find out EXACTLY what he believes, as can you.
They just can't label them BEFORE reading. This means they have to
THINK FOR THEMSELVES.
quote:
KNOWING what religion you have come from/gone back to etc..yes even 'wiccas' (although as you said..some don't want it known(sorry,don't profess) to be witches !!
This is not exactly polite discourse. You've been told several times that the
proper term is "wiccan", and the terms "wiccan" and "witch" are not
synonymous-some people are one OR the other, but not BOTH. Even stated wiccans
(who did EXACTLY what you asked) are STILL not answering "good enough" for
you-you're claiming they "don't want it known" although they presented their
label. You responded to that label by insulting them further-
demonstrating you lack the maturity to use labels properly.
That having been said,
why SHOULD anyone cooperate with you?
Sometimes people cooperate with me out of politeness,
sometimes because I've earned their respect.
You've strained politeness, and earned little respect from anyone except
vpw apologists.
See why some people cooperate with ME and not YOU?
(I also ask a lot less.)
I just wonder what else (some) of you are 'hiding' ??
Diasbro..certainly not my intention to turn GS into a 'Word' forum, I wouldn't be that naive,but as stated, if people clearly show what 'angle' they are coming from when they post their comments, you know 'transparency' like they all say t.w.i. should have been doing, then I have no problem !
Forgive us if not everyone just believes you on that.
You want to speak in tongues? Fine. You believe that they are everything that Wierwille taught? Also fine. But these are DISCUSSION forums. So they'll be some DISCUSSION about various aspects of TWI doctrine.
Oakspear, I believe you're right on the money.
I shouldn't have gotten defensive with my SIT beliefs.
I am actually open to hearing more.
Of course, along with the info. Goey provided I also am examining JE Stiles and BG Leonard books, folks that don't have the same negative baggage as VP. Practically the same stuff but just in case some get turned off by VP...
Anyway, this thread is helping me re-examine my beliefs, which is a good thing. :)-->
So Goey..whats wrong with just coming out and saying I'm a JW or Mormon etc..
At least lurkers can see and read your posts on topics like s.i.t. KNOWING what religion you have come from/gone back to etc..yes even 'wiccas' (although as you said..some don't want it known(sorry,don't profess) to be witches !!
I just wonder what else (some) of you are 'hiding' ??
I'll try saying this for the umpteenth time, although it hasn't gotten through Allan's thick skull any of the other times...
Allan, most of us don't 'PUBLISH OUR LABELS' because most of us don't care... most of us prefer to make our conclusions about folks by reading their thoughts they type here in the forums... not by reading their labels... it's the way things are here... if you want to post at a board where folks wear nametags this ain't the place for you!
Most of us gave up on nametags as the measure of a person a long time ago and decided to let folks' actions define them...
You want to speak in tongues? Fine. You believe that they are everything that Wierwille taught? Also fine. But these are DISCUSSION forums. So they'll be some DISCUSSION about various aspects of TWI doctrine.
Oakspear, I believe you're right on the money.
I shouldn't have gotten defensive with my SIT beliefs.
I am actually open to hearing more.
OM, I agree, Oakspear is right on the money. I also have to say that I'm impressed with your response here. Thank you for posting this. It's shows a human side of OM that I wondered about. :)-->
quote:
Of course, along with the info. Goey provided I also am examining JE Stiles and BG Leonard books, folks that don't have the same negative baggage as VP. Practically the same stuff but just in case some get turned off by VP...
I think that's a marvelous idea! I think you'll find people more receptive to discussion with you even if they don't agree with Stiles or Leonard. It will certainly take the vee pee issue out of the discussion and, I think, make it more profitable.
quote:
Anyway, this thread is helping me re-examine my beliefs, which is a good thing. :)-->
It takes a real strong person to even consider re-examining their beliefs, especially those beliefs that have formed who they are over many, many years. Kudos to you, my friend! Your willingness to read and consider other points of view is admirable. :)-->
You want to speak in tongues? Fine. You believe that they are everything that Wierwille taught? Also fine. But these are DISCUSSION forums. So they'll be some DISCUSSION about various aspects of TWI doctrine.
Oakspear, I believe you're right on the money.
I shouldn't have gotten defensive with my SIT beliefs.
I am actually open to hearing more.
Of course, along with the info. Goey provided I also am examining JE Stiles and BG Leonard books, folks that don't have the same negative baggage as VP. Practically the same stuff but just in case some get turned off by VP...
Anyway, this thread is helping me re-examine my beliefs, which is a good thing. :)-->
Since Oakspear is gone I will put out one educational post, since I know most exway (and TWI)are not familiar with pagan terminology--and since terms are being used incorrectly--
Wicca-- a nature religion with duality--god/goddess and a yearly cycle of celebration(the wheel of the year.) Most refer to themselves as Wiccans. A Wiccan may or may not practice some form of witchcraft. They have major views on causing harm(bad, bad!), and on Returns(reaping what you sow.) Wiccans don't practice either curses or witnessing( no door to door!!) in their beliefs. They don't believe in Satan(he's not a nature god, right?) so are not satanic.
Witch-- one who practices some form of witch craft, no matter what religion they belong to.
Also, most who follow a goddess only belief system(not god/goddess as in Wicca)or are involved with Feminist Spirituality (womyn, wombin is often how they spell women) call themselves witches. They don't believe in satan, and don't follow him. Um, he would be a masculine entity in their view.
So if you meet an actual witch, chances are good she worships a female diety and thinks satan is unimportant.
I don't know any actual satanists, nor do they hang out on the type of pagan forums I hang out on...but my understanding is that their definition of satan differs greatly from the Christian definition.I would have to study up on it and don't have the time or interest.
The scary witches that go around performing curses on good people, like in fairy tales and movies--never met one or found one on a forum. Doubt many exist. Well, I could see some teenage kids who want to be scary and shocking going with this, like with the whole Goth youth thing.
This being typed, I will shut up. I know certain posters are absolutley sure I'm trying to witness to y'all to turn you all into witches who curse Christians so their cow's milk dries up, and I doubt anthing I say will make a difference, because I'm a voice that WIll NOT be heard.
I just find the poorly informed use of terminology grating and disrespectful. Information is so easy to get on the net.
Oh--and the definitions are my own and might not be another Wiccan/pagan's definition.
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diazbro
Allan there is nothing new about someone charging onto the scene in attempt to convert the forum to "the word". It was attempted many times over at Waydale and in the early days of Gspot. You are one in a very long line of self appointed "deliverers". Also Its curious that you are here to 'defend the Faith'. What I want to know is who asked you to ?
I mean its just a bunch of "dead wood" and lots of "chaff" in here. "Rejecters of the truth" and people who have "thrown the baby out with the bathwater". Feel free to use these phrases as those who came before you liked to employ these descriptions though I don't think they accomplished much of anything. But when utterred from the lips (or written from the fingertips) of the self anointed defender of the truth they have a particularly entertaining ring.
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coolchef1248 @adelphia.net
belle
i have said it befor and am going to say it again
you are a belle!
wish i could know you better!
your post are so enlighting
-->
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year2027
God first and last
Beloved All
God bless your hearts
I been reading where some want proff that speaking in tongues is real
All proff whether proff about tongues being real or not real is done in each person's heart
You see yes I can speak in tongues and its real to me but you are not me
Its like this God could tell me something will happen in a dream, prophecy or what ever way and it comes to happen
Now this would build believe in my heart but you might say it was just something that happens every etc years and I just got lucky or I just use math to help me see what will happen
It just like war the odds are that USA will get in a war on our own grounds
So if I prophecy it you could either believe my words were prophecy or just a matter of odds
All proff is done in each person heart
Take DNA I do believe that Six points in DNA mean anything because many would math on six points to me
But you may trust science more than me and that might be proff in your heart but not my heart
I hope this helps
But it in our personal hearts
with love and a holy kiss blowing your way Roy
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Goey
Posted By Alan,
Alan, I have never hidden anything here. However, I have no intention of giving you or anyone "Goey's Articles of Faith" If you want to know some about what I believe so that you can label me, unmask me, or whatever, then search the archives in Doctrinal and About the Way , and read my posts. And try to read the black part and not the spaces in between. Your quest presumes that certain folks need unmasking and that you have the ability to unmask them. I suspect that neither is true. But hey, thanks for the heads up. Is this a statement of fact, a guess, or are you fishing?Excuse me while I wipe up the coffee that I just spewed on my keyboard!
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Tom Strange
I think that Allan has one of them crystal balls... (but he musta gotta cheap one cuz it don't work so good)
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WordWolf
Reminds me of II Corinthians 10:12.
"For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that
commend themselves: but they, measuring themselves by themselves, and, comparing
themselves among themselves, are not wise."
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WordWolf
You know, I knew a guy who had one of those. He was a self-proclaimed psychic.
Like vpw, he'd lost the use of one eye.
So he, you know, had a glass eye.
And a crystal ball.
He seemed to think one compensated for the other.
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Oakspear
Another thought (or maybe the same thought that was expressed pages ago and I missed!) about speaking tongues:
If there is such a thing as "genuine" speaking in tongues in the church, which I am not convinced one way or another, I am convinced that most folks in TWI weren't doing it.
Speaking in tongues in the modern era has been largely an ecstatic experience: somebody "gets the spirit" and usually speaks in a highly emotional manner. Right or wrong Wierwille sought to make the experience "decent and in order" and devoid of emotion, to reduce it to a formula, to frame it within a pre-set list of steps to be called upon at any time to perform.
Is speaking in tongues as an emotional or ecstatic response to the presence of God necessarily indecent or out of order?
So many people that I saw, especially in the nineties, had no desire to speak in tongues, and weren't "feeling" anything, but were doing what was expected of them. Children of grads often fell into this group, doing what their parents expected of them.
There were many people, one of my own children included, who said the exact same thing every time that they spoke in tongues. I would sometimes silently subvocalize what they were saying, and hit it dead on every time. Or others would repeat the same half dozen, or even two or three, syllables over and over. Genuine? May-be...doubt it though.
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dmiller
Oak -- Well -- I'll tell ya ------------
I believe in it whole-heartedly. I do it daily, and since I don't go to any sort of fellowship (these days), it is my one connection with the God I believe in (I respect your decision to not believe in Him), and because of that I don't have to put up with the doctrinal junk that most churches promote these days.
Meebe most in twi faked it. I dunno -- could be. I never did, and as a matter of fact -- in exceller (sp?) sessions in the intermediate class, I was always called on to *do the duty* so the newbies could see how it was done.
Now -- I'm not tooting my own horn here, but I will say that it is a very real and viable entity that (while transcending logic), is much more than just a spiritual placebo meant to placate those who have no real life on their own.
Docvic did his best to put the boundaries, and blinders on it -- and certainly some bought into that arguement. The ones that did so were the *used car salesmen* who would try to sell you a lemon, and proclaim it to be a tasty strawberry instead.
And fyi --- I NEVER HAVE TO GET IN THE SPIRIT to start SIT'ing.
Believe it or not, it is second nature with me, and if ya wanna know the truth -- I rarely pray with my understanding any more -- it is always in tongues. I feel I am understood better that way.
Now -- I know you are agnostic at best, and I am not belittling you for that by any means. I'm taking what I quoted from you with a grain of salt, cause I know you make exceptions to the ideas you espouse, as do I.
:)-->
Take care, just my pov, David
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Allan
So Goey..whats wrong with just coming out and saying I'm a JW or Mormon etc..
At least lurkers can see and read your posts on topics like s.i.t. KNOWING what religion you have come from/gone back to etc..yes even 'wiccas' (although as you said..some don't want it known(sorry,don't profess) to be witches !!
I just wonder what else (some) of you are 'hiding' ??
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Allan
Diasbro..certainly not my intention to turn GS into a 'Word' forum, I wouldn't be that naive,but as stated, if people clearly show what 'angle' they are coming from when they post their comments, you know 'transparency' like they all say t.w.i. should have been doing, then I have no problem !
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Danny
Hey Allan Where are your cards?
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TheEvan
Just trying to be helpful here, Allan. You are very far off the mark on goey. If I were him, I would, like him, efuse to dignify your incredible musings with a response.
Me, I'm a Christian. Good enough for you? Geez. And I most definitely threw out the bathwater. Interestingly, THERE WAS NO BABY IN THERE.
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diazbro
So long before I took PFAL and was led into SIT by a group of travelling christians who were basically a bunch of hippies doing the van thing around the country. It took all of 10 minutes for me to SIT and this was counting their explanation of the biblical precedents asscociated with tongues. They had a very small phamplet that laid out some verses with some one or two lines comments and that was it in terms of "teaching material". After the guy explained he said I could do it on my own if I wanted. And that was that.
Later when I took PFAL I mentioned to one of the class leader types that I was already SIT and of course he probably thought it was counterfeit and asked me to refrain from it until session 12. He also asked me to keep quiet about and not tell other students. I thought all of this to be odd though later it became clear that he wanted PFAL to get the credit for my SIT activity. But after session 12 I told everyone that I had been able to SIT for quite some time and proceeded to explain how it happened. 10 minutes compared to 12 sessions ? I later found out that the class support people had been assigned to listen to "my tongues" during session 12 to determine if they were authentic or not. Hilarious.
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WordWolf
on pages 6 & 7. It doesn't endear you to others to keep asking the same
questions over and over IF THEY HAVE BEEN ANSWERED.
That means either
A) You disrespect the posters and their posts when they DO answer
B) You are unable AND unwilling to understand "what is written". This can be
overcome with effort-you are not undertaking that effort.
C) You disbelieve the posts-thus calling the posters liars.
It surprises you that you people don't play your game?
They can read his posts NOW and find out EXACTLY what he believes, as can you.
They just can't label them BEFORE reading. This means they have to
THINK FOR THEMSELVES.
This is not exactly polite discourse. You've been told several times that the
proper term is "wiccan", and the terms "wiccan" and "witch" are not
synonymous-some people are one OR the other, but not BOTH. Even stated wiccans
(who did EXACTLY what you asked) are STILL not answering "good enough" for
you-you're claiming they "don't want it known" although they presented their
label. You responded to that label by insulting them further-
demonstrating you lack the maturity to use labels properly.
That having been said,
why SHOULD anyone cooperate with you?
Sometimes people cooperate with me out of politeness,
sometimes because I've earned their respect.
You've strained politeness, and earned little respect from anyone except
vpw apologists.
See why some people cooperate with ME and not YOU?
(I also ask a lot less.)
I just wonder what else (some) of you are 'hiding' ??
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mstar1
While we are on 'manis', it sounds like Way Style revelation to me
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WordWolf
Forgive us if not everyone just believes you on that.
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Oakspear
This has been an interesting discussion, but I'm going to be off-line for a few days so I can move.
Or am I? ; - )
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oldiesman
I shouldn't have gotten defensive with my SIT beliefs.
I am actually open to hearing more.
Of course, along with the info. Goey provided I also am examining JE Stiles and BG Leonard books, folks that don't have the same negative baggage as VP. Practically the same stuff but just in case some get turned off by VP...
Anyway, this thread is helping me re-examine my beliefs, which is a good thing.
:)-->
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Belle
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Tom Strange
Allan said:
I'll try saying this for the umpteenth time, although it hasn't gotten through Allan's thick skull any of the other times...
Allan, most of us don't 'PUBLISH OUR LABELS' because most of us don't care... most of us prefer to make our conclusions about folks by reading their thoughts they type here in the forums... not by reading their labels... it's the way things are here... if you want to post at a board where folks wear nametags this ain't the place for you!
Most of us gave up on nametags as the measure of a person a long time ago and decided to let folks' actions define them...
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Belle
OM, I agree, Oakspear is right on the money. I also have to say that I'm impressed with your response here. Thank you for posting this. It's shows a human side of OM that I wondered about.
:)-->
I think that's a marvelous idea! I think you'll find people more receptive to discussion with you even if they don't agree with Stiles or Leonard. It will certainly take the vee pee issue out of the discussion and, I think, make it more profitable.
It takes a real strong person to even consider re-examining their beliefs, especially those beliefs that have formed who they are over many, many years. Kudos to you, my friend! Your willingness to read and consider other points of view is admirable.
:)-->
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WordWolf
Great! Let us know what you find!
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Bramble
Since Oakspear is gone I will put out one educational post, since I know most exway (and TWI)are not familiar with pagan terminology--and since terms are being used incorrectly--
Wicca-- a nature religion with duality--god/goddess and a yearly cycle of celebration(the wheel of the year.) Most refer to themselves as Wiccans. A Wiccan may or may not practice some form of witchcraft. They have major views on causing harm(bad, bad!), and on Returns(reaping what you sow.) Wiccans don't practice either curses or witnessing( no door to door!!) in their beliefs. They don't believe in Satan(he's not a nature god, right?) so are not satanic.
Witch-- one who practices some form of witch craft, no matter what religion they belong to.
Also, most who follow a goddess only belief system(not god/goddess as in Wicca)or are involved with Feminist Spirituality (womyn, wombin is often how they spell women) call themselves witches. They don't believe in satan, and don't follow him. Um, he would be a masculine entity in their view.
So if you meet an actual witch, chances are good she worships a female diety and thinks satan is unimportant.
I don't know any actual satanists, nor do they hang out on the type of pagan forums I hang out on...but my understanding is that their definition of satan differs greatly from the Christian definition.I would have to study up on it and don't have the time or interest.
The scary witches that go around performing curses on good people, like in fairy tales and movies--never met one or found one on a forum. Doubt many exist. Well, I could see some teenage kids who want to be scary and shocking going with this, like with the whole Goth youth thing.
This being typed, I will shut up. I know certain posters are absolutley sure I'm trying to witness to y'all to turn you all into witches who curse Christians so their cow's milk dries up, and I doubt anthing I say will make a difference, because I'm a voice that WIll NOT be heard.
I just find the poorly informed use of terminology grating and disrespectful. Information is so easy to get on the net.
Oh--and the definitions are my own and might not be another Wiccan/pagan's definition.
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