Grizzy - Funny...cause that is exactly what my mom said about the whole situation. If anything this is an experience, one that I can learn and grow from. Regardless of beliefs I care about this person as a date and friend, and always will. But now I know about what "the way" is exactly, and know that it is not something I would ever want to be a part of. I was able to make this choice on my own, before any of the pressure was applied. Again, I can't begin to express how wonderful you all have been, thank you for taking the time to care and respond to my questions.
Oh yeah grizz...this young person stands to be sucked into a cult that will alienate him from their family....detour them from their goals...suck up inordinate amounts of time and money ...and then spit them out when every particle of usefullness has been sucked out of em...and you think that maybe we are reacting a little strongly??? Gawd
Think about it....would you want YOUR kid sucked into what is ahead for nameless young person if they become involved???
There is a whole HELL of a lot of difference between what would be required if one dated from the groups that you mentioned.
Damn Grizz..I think that this person deserves the strongest warning that it is within our power to administer ...
I suppose one who has experienced the final stages of cancer caused by cigaret smoking might be intense in their warnings in to attempt to dissuade young folks from starting as well....yeah maybe that particular kid wont get cancer and suffer ....but who wants to take that chance?
I second Grizzy's comments; go date and have a good time. Funny, the person you're dating sounds less fanatical than I was; I would have tried to get you involved right away. Have fun.
This is an extremely COMMON practice for 'recruiting' new members into the Way. The 'attraction' factor for recruiting new members has been well documented all over this forum. Few of the Way Members would do anything to discourage your interest in them. (They've been taught that your interest is NOT personal - but that you "see something" that equates to your desire for their god). The attraction is a hook, trap, bait. IF the parents don't openly object to their child dating dating you, then suspect the worst. Eventually, you'll be offered an ultimatum.
" I am not really a religious person, and i am open to everyones beliefs."
Way members are eventually taught that EVERYONE who has other beliefs than their teachings is, at best, an 'outsider'.......at worst, a Devil-Worshipper (even if you worship nothing). "If you're not with us, you're against us."
" Do WAY parents not like their children dating nowayers? If they don't seem like they will become a part of WAY? "
The family's beliefs may not be apparent yet - but if you aren't "one of them", then you are definitely 'disposable', and considered a non-person who is beneath any loyalty or respect.
Let TWI speak for themselves. These are quotes from the family class:
WHO DO YOU MARRY?
Find a believer who really blesses you in the soul category. Someone who loves God and will do His Word. One who thinks like you about the important, deep aspects of life, one who has a commitment to the Word AND THE MINISTRY, someone who is faithful.
The man or woman you marry is the one you’ll make countless decisions with. You want someone who will believe God for the right answers, someone you can depend on to believe with you in every situation.
You’ll want a spiritual spouse, strong in the Lord, who can back down the adversary and prevail together with you.
You unmarried believers, if you choose to get married, marry a believer. That is the Word of the Lord. To do this Word, then you also don’t allow yourself to get emotionally involved with an unbeliever. That is not loving because it sets both of you up for hurt and disappointment.
If there is any way that, by containing expenses and living modestly, you can have Mom home with the children, especially in those early formative years, it is worth the effort and any monetary sacrifice you might make.
Our heavenly Father gave us His Word, and we learned it in THIS MINISTRY. Let’s REACH OUT TO OTHERS with the Word and let’s teach our children and grandchildren to love God and do His Word WITH THIS WONDERFUL HOUSEHOLD.
A woman’s appearance should leave a godly impression and show that God abundantly provides for her. How she looks should represent God and, if married, should reflect the dignity and respect of her husband.
Parents should want their children to be Advanced Class graduates. Training our children so they can stand will help them maximize their rewards at the bema.
The only way to beat the adversary’s system is to have a better system, and WE HAVE THE BEST SYSTEM, the Word of god LIVING IN THE HOUSEHOLD OF GOD.
When two unbelievers are married and one gets born again of God’s spirit they stay in that marriage. If an unbelieving wife wants to live with her unbelieving husband, wonderful and vice versa.
I don't see anything in there about not dating an unbeliever or someone not affiliated with twi.
By the way, I don't know if it's true anymore today, but when I was involved with the Roman Catholic church, it was considered a great sin and a wicked act for a Roman Catholic to marry a Protestant. So this is really nothing new.
The problem, as I see it, is not that you can't marry a person outside your organization, but the fact that you are not told this from the outset of the relationship.
People who date people in TWI are not aware of the belief system they are going to have to subscribe to should they want to pursue marriage with that person.
On the other hand, if you're just dating and having a good time with no expectations of the relationship leading to anything, then it is no big deal.
I'd prefer to know from the start because further down the road I would be very disappointed and feel as though I had been misled or lied to (by omission of information).
Nameless, My answer would be the same irregarless of the organazation or religion of the one you were dating. When people come together from differing belief systems you need to proceed very carefully and have many discussions. This effects everything.. from where finances go to how to raise children... everything. While dating these things may seem far far away but after marriage they are everything. If this is someone you are truly interested in you have to have many long conversations before you decide to persue it. This is advice I give my daughter about anyone she is considering a relationship with. I will keep my opinions to myself about this particular group but you need to have many of these talks before you put too much time into this.
quote: By the way, I don't know if it's true anymore today, but when I was involved with the Roman Catholic church, it was considered a great sin and a wicked act for a Roman Catholic to marry a Protestant. So this is really nothing new.
OM -- yea. My dad (catholic) decided to marry my mom (protestant) 54 years ago, despite what the "Holy See All/ Know It All", or whoever the H*** they think they are, decreed back in the dark ages.
He is still PO'd at the RCC after all these years for denying him the privilidge of devoting his life to the woman he loved.
He didn't realize that he also (Bullinger), was in a cult, and they were trying to run his life for him.
Nameless -- You said --
quote:I am a real strong headed and can't see myself getting sucked into something like this. To tell you the truth, I never imagined it TWI was something like this, I have never gotten that impression, and have never felt like they were wanting me to be a part.
(Bold -- my emphasis)
If you are strong headed, you are not twi material, unless you aspire to "leadership". Of a truth, I cannot imagine that they would not want you to be "a part of them".
My dad has a mind of his own, and refused to let the RCC operate it for him. RCC was held in question , and accountable for many things back in "those days", so he was able to get away with it.
I, for one, do not see twi in this light, nor will I ever. They are too small to attract such notice, yet are as deadly as the "little poisionous snake" you come across on an innocent walk in the woods.
Perhaps you like this person, and the two of you "click". If so -- fine. If they are committed to twi, consider it a "rattler", coiled, rattles vibrating, and waiting to strike. Get too close, and you will be bitten. And not because of them, but because of what they stand for.
The venom twi injects is lethal, but only if you get too close. If your "friend" is inter-twined, with-in the coils of twi, I would be giving it a SERIOUS second thought.
"As if there are no real decent kids left in that organization and there is no possibility of having a great social relationship with someone who’s greatest sin was being born into a group like that!"
"But, an innie kid is like the spawn of Satan?"
Grizzy,
Who actually criticized the person nameless is dating? TWI and it's secretive tactics have been criticized but not the individual.
nameless quote:
"WOW! I can't begin to thank you enough for all of your advice on this matter."
It seems that nameless was appreciative of the responses and found them helpful.
What twi did you leave? Hell, the one we left not only frowned on twits dating "unbelievers", but worked overtime to split married "believers" when both didn't toe the line.
In the "Living God's Word as a Family" class they tell the single people that they should put all their time and effort into dating people within the household (meaning TWI). Then they say that if there aren't many other singles your age involved in your area that you should invite people to fellowship and maybe they might turn on to the Word.
It's covered in depth in the class and written in the syllabus. If you're not "in" you're being groomed to be "in" and if you don't buy the line, then you will be dumped quicker than you can say "household".
They also teach that any sex outside the marriage relationship is wrong. It is no longer okay to have sex before you get married.
Double-dating is encouraged to keep things safe and light and avoid the temptation to do things that might lead to you wanting to have sex.
Let me preface this by saying, I am 29, I left the Way (twi) about 3 1/2, 4 years ago, and grew up from the age of 5 in this ministry. As a teen I dated two non-wafer girls and dated some what seriously three different non- way women through my twenties. I am now married to the last one. I was considered "seriouly involved" with the ministry and "witnessed" to all of these girls, but never in a pushy way. Of those only one got involved and (before she was my wife) my wife went to one meeting. As a teen I was never pressured to get my girlfriends to go to a meeting. As an adult, I was pressured a little while dating my now wife. Other than that, I was not pressured. The one girl that did get involved only went because she admired and loved the person that I was and was interested, and only then did I "witness" to her. We she left without a word a year and a half later. Good for her. I have not experienced some of the things that others here have (but do not doubt them), but I did experience pleanty of terrible things.....mostly as an adult.
Having said allll that. I think I might have a unique perspective on all this.
I sounds like your boyfriend is still living with his parents, which I would assume means you are both teenagers. I so.....go nuts! Get freaky! I don't care, but be causious when it come to the religion thing. If you are an adult...make your own decisions, but again be wary of his Wafer affiliation.
My younger brother is 21 and is right now dating someone in twi and it looks as though they are serious to the point of getting married. I would love to see him date someone outside of the ministry.
I would say do everything you would dating a non wafer, just don't get involved with his ministry.
If you have been dating for 2 months or so and he has not tried to get you to go to fellowship or a way function or continually talk about the Bible with you, it would be my guess that he is not that serious.
Few of us here actually know other posts personally and none of us truly know the reasons for them joining a cult. I had no choice at five. If you are strong headed, then great....stay that way, and ask many questions and question many answers. It is good for you and will be great for him. But have a good time you are young, enjoy it. You are obviouly attracted to this person for probably both physical and personal qualities. Focus on those qualityies and don't push the way thing too much, unless he does.
Hi! It has been helpful to hear both sides....Lindy your post was great and related to a lot of things i have been feeling, and going through.....quick question
"If you have been dating for 2 months or so and he has not tried to get you to go to fellowship or a way function or continually talk about the Bible with you, it would be my guess that he is not that serious."
Is that serious about twi or our relationship?? Just curious....it will be good like you've all said to talk about a lot of these things. Now I am a little better prepared as well. Thank you!
Nameless, if you and your TWI beau are still "youngsters" (teens still living at home with Mom and Dad), I doubt your relationship is of much concern yet. Everyone knows that young people will usually date numerous different individuals before finding THE one they are serious about marrying. Since Way leaders(out of neccessity) have adopted a more relaxed way of dealing with their people, they are not likely to press the the panic button and begin pressuring your beau to pressure you, until it looks like things are getting very serious. You've pointed out that you have only been dating for a couple of months. At this point, there's certainly no cause for alarm on ANYONE'S part. I would take Grizzy's advice. Date and have fun with this person. I don't doubt that he/she has some wonderful personal traits and is a lot of fun to be with. In any case, you may not go the distance, even if TWI never becomes an issue. The first blush of "new love's" excitement often wears thin over time, and people grow bored with one another...The point is to keep everything in perspective. By all means, keep your eyes and ears open. Be prepared to bolt if neccessary. But I doubt you're in any immediate danger---LOL!
By the way, I've got a couple of teenaged kids who, along with their father, are still TWI involved (I left several years ago, and would rather stick a fork in my eye before returning---but that's just me---LOL!). They're great kids, who don't have a mean or manipulative bone in their body. Anyone would be lucky to date either one of them. I still believe that most TWI people (especially, young ones) are decent, giving people, who just want to live according to God's will and live life relatively unscathed. The "ministry"---TWI, is an entity whose past is speckled with many dark and shameful acts, whose leaders at the top very enthusiastically endorsed and engaged in many of those acts, leaders who are now desperately trying to revamp TWI's image and "revise" its history in order to be attractive to new prospects. Keep the warnings in mind, but don't let it cloud your opinion of the person you're dating. They and TWI are NOT one and the same.
Again...you all continue to amaze me. Everything has been womderful to read. I was hesitant at first to even post, but I must say....it has helped to ease so much of the initial shock I had when reading about TWI. You guys are great!
JT, you are correct that no one has said anything bad about the innie being dated.
Weout, I left TWI-2, in 1999.
You see that many of the innie teens and young adults are very fine and fun humans. If I was dating one and came here and asked as nameless has, then compared many of the extreme *run* posts with the awesome person I was dating, guess what I would decide? Kind of like how the majority of ex-cult exports are so over the top they so overkill their stuff is rejected by recruits and members.
Now getting people well informed about the lil defanged cult allows them to make well informed decisions. Fear motivation works, but usually only for a short period of time. I believe that is still the biggest reason people are pulling up stakes and leaving the sacred walls of Zion.
Now, if a person was asking about joining TWI so they could marry one of these great youngins, my tune would change! But then it is always a 50-50 chance as far as if one would be recruited or if the other one would leave.
I get the biggest kick reading things posted by P-Mosh and Lindy all the time here. (Not that I ever agree with Mosh) Many TWI kids are very intelligent, very bright and very caring! Heck all my cubs left before this ole bear finally woke-up and knowing my cubs the way I do; that got me thinking!
CC, I take it that you and your hubby do not encourage your children to date only innies. They, unlike the teens and older in this area, are very fortunate to not have that pressure.
A particular family in this area have beautiful girls who continue to live at home even though they have recieved their college education and have great jobs. They are told to date only TWI innies. There are many teens and mid-twenties innies who are just passing each other around in order to go out and enjoy their early years.
There was one guy who dated many of the girl innies and finally announced that he was going to marry his high school sweetheart. He refused to marry her until she took all the classes thru the advanced class. The ultimatum to take the classes or break off the engagement was just the first of control taught by parents and TWI.
The same guy dated several of the innies and led one of these girls to believe that they had a romantic and loving future together. The gal was so heart-broken when he announced his engagement. This same guy had been with her romatically a couple nights prior to the announcement.
Futher more, innies are told to date non-believers for sexual desires instead of the innie girls. This does not fall under the belief system of innie women blessing the men within the cult.
Good luck, have fun, but don't be blind to what is going on around you.
I ment not too serious about twi. While he may argue his ideas to the point of tears, it is his life, not just his religion you are discussing. But I don't even know this person only what he has been taught, so learn about him from him. ;)-->
I was serious about a number of relationships that I had. I was also extremely hopeful, if I was in a serious relationship, that that person would get involved in the ministry. I knew that the relationship would only go so far and at some point the one I was dating came to the same conclusion. But that is the way dating goes. It runs its course until one of you moves on, can't go any further, or you both fall madly in love and get married eventually. This happens regardless of ones religion.
I think the underlying (or overlying) theme here is. This guy is probably a great guy, have fun, but don't even consider getting involved in twi.
You sound much like me when I was first involved with TWI. I was young(early 20s), looking for a serious relationship, and just looking to form friendships with people in general. I was taken aback when I first was confronted with the "cult factor" and brushed it off. I thought I was much too smart to get sucked in. I was wrong. I didn't get sucked in too far, and never had anything bad really happen to me - but I did get sucked in because I loved the people who were in. I really invested a lot of time in my circle of TWI friendships - and in the end they all just walked away because I was not willing to turn my entire heart over to their ministry.
My biggest regret is that I wasted 2 years that I could have spent developing some real and lasting relationships with people who were looking for the same. I loved those people - but not TWI - and that is why, over ten years later, I still pop in to this forum hoping to find out what happened to them - and if they are hurting, if they are out, if they are free. I really thought I knew them - and that I was a good judge of character - but I never knew them at all. In my experience nothing was ever as it seemed - and reading the real story here makes me ache even more for those people I loved.
I thank God there was not a cute one among them - or I may have been sunk!
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nameless
Grizzy - Funny...cause that is exactly what my mom said about the whole situation. If anything this is an experience, one that I can learn and grow from. Regardless of beliefs I care about this person as a date and friend, and always will. But now I know about what "the way" is exactly, and know that it is not something I would ever want to be a part of. I was able to make this choice on my own, before any of the pressure was applied. Again, I can't begin to express how wonderful you all have been, thank you for taking the time to care and respond to my questions.
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rascal
Oh yeah grizz...this young person stands to be sucked into a cult that will alienate him from their family....detour them from their goals...suck up inordinate amounts of time and money ...and then spit them out when every particle of usefullness has been sucked out of em...and you think that maybe we are reacting a little strongly??? Gawd
Think about it....would you want YOUR kid sucked into what is ahead for nameless young person if they become involved???
There is a whole HELL of a lot of difference between what would be required if one dated from the groups that you mentioned.
Damn Grizz..I think that this person deserves the strongest warning that it is within our power to administer ...
I suppose one who has experienced the final stages of cancer caused by cigaret smoking might be intense in their warnings in to attempt to dissuade young folks from starting as well....yeah maybe that particular kid wont get cancer and suffer ....but who wants to take that chance?
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oldiesman
I second Grizzy's comments; go date and have a good time. Funny, the person you're dating sounds less fanatical than I was; I would have tried to get you involved right away. Have fun.
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Steve!
Heck, the person nameless is dating sounds less fanatical than you are
;)--> .
bad steve!
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Ttessa
"I am currently dating a TWI member"
This is an extremely COMMON practice for 'recruiting' new members into the Way. The 'attraction' factor for recruiting new members has been well documented all over this forum. Few of the Way Members would do anything to discourage your interest in them. (They've been taught that your interest is NOT personal - but that you "see something" that equates to your desire for their god). The attraction is a hook, trap, bait. IF the parents don't openly object to their child dating dating you, then suspect the worst. Eventually, you'll be offered an ultimatum.
" I am not really a religious person, and i am open to everyones beliefs."
Way members are eventually taught that EVERYONE who has other beliefs than their teachings is, at best, an 'outsider'.......at worst, a Devil-Worshipper (even if you worship nothing). "If you're not with us, you're against us."
" Do WAY parents not like their children dating nowayers? If they don't seem like they will become a part of WAY? "
The family's beliefs may not be apparent yet - but if you aren't "one of them", then you are definitely 'disposable', and considered a non-person who is beneath any loyalty or respect.
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WaywardWayfer
Let TWI speak for themselves. These are quotes from the family class:
WHO DO YOU MARRY?
Find a believer who really blesses you in the soul category. Someone who loves God and will do His Word. One who thinks like you about the important, deep aspects of life, one who has a commitment to the Word AND THE MINISTRY, someone who is faithful.
The man or woman you marry is the one you’ll make countless decisions with. You want someone who will believe God for the right answers, someone you can depend on to believe with you in every situation.
You’ll want a spiritual spouse, strong in the Lord, who can back down the adversary and prevail together with you.
You unmarried believers, if you choose to get married, marry a believer. That is the Word of the Lord. To do this Word, then you also don’t allow yourself to get emotionally involved with an unbeliever. That is not loving because it sets both of you up for hurt and disappointment.
If there is any way that, by containing expenses and living modestly, you can have Mom home with the children, especially in those early formative years, it is worth the effort and any monetary sacrifice you might make.
Our heavenly Father gave us His Word, and we learned it in THIS MINISTRY. Let’s REACH OUT TO OTHERS with the Word and let’s teach our children and grandchildren to love God and do His Word WITH THIS WONDERFUL HOUSEHOLD.
A woman’s appearance should leave a godly impression and show that God abundantly provides for her. How she looks should represent God and, if married, should reflect the dignity and respect of her husband.
Parents should want their children to be Advanced Class graduates. Training our children so they can stand will help them maximize their rewards at the bema.
The only way to beat the adversary’s system is to have a better system, and WE HAVE THE BEST SYSTEM, the Word of god LIVING IN THE HOUSEHOLD OF GOD.
When two unbelievers are married and one gets born again of God’s spirit they stay in that marriage. If an unbelieving wife wants to live with her unbelieving husband, wonderful and vice versa.
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oldiesman
And the problem is?
I don't see anything in there about not dating an unbeliever or someone not affiliated with twi.
By the way, I don't know if it's true anymore today, but when I was involved with the Roman Catholic church, it was considered a great sin and a wicked act for a Roman Catholic to marry a Protestant. So this is really nothing new.
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simpleton
The problem, as I see it, is not that you can't marry a person outside your organization, but the fact that you are not told this from the outset of the relationship.
People who date people in TWI are not aware of the belief system they are going to have to subscribe to should they want to pursue marriage with that person.
On the other hand, if you're just dating and having a good time with no expectations of the relationship leading to anything, then it is no big deal.
I'd prefer to know from the start because further down the road I would be very disappointed and feel as though I had been misled or lied to (by omission of information).
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coupcake
Nameless, My answer would be the same irregarless of the organazation or religion of the one you were dating. When people come together from differing belief systems you need to proceed very carefully and have many discussions. This effects everything.. from where finances go to how to raise children... everything. While dating these things may seem far far away but after marriage they are everything. If this is someone you are truly interested in you have to have many long conversations before you decide to persue it. This is advice I give my daughter about anyone she is considering a relationship with. I will keep my opinions to myself about this particular group but you need to have many of these talks before you put too much time into this.
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dmiller
OM -- yea. My dad (catholic) decided to marry my mom (protestant) 54 years ago, despite what the "Holy See All/ Know It All", or whoever the H*** they think they are, decreed back in the dark ages.
He is still PO'd at the RCC after all these years for denying him the privilidge of devoting his life to the woman he loved.
He didn't realize that he also (Bullinger), was in a cult, and they were trying to run his life for him.
Nameless -- You said --
(Bold -- my emphasis)
If you are strong headed, you are not twi material, unless you aspire to "leadership". Of a truth, I cannot imagine that they would not want you to be "a part of them".
My dad has a mind of his own, and refused to let the RCC operate it for him. RCC was held in question , and accountable for many things back in "those days", so he was able to get away with it.
I, for one, do not see twi in this light, nor will I ever. They are too small to attract such notice, yet are as deadly as the "little poisionous snake" you come across on an innocent walk in the woods.
Perhaps you like this person, and the two of you "click". If so -- fine. If they are committed to twi, consider it a "rattler", coiled, rattles vibrating, and waiting to strike. Get too close, and you will be bitten. And not because of them, but because of what they stand for.
The venom twi injects is lethal, but only if you get too close. If your "friend" is inter-twined, with-in the coils of twi, I would be giving it a SERIOUS second thought.
The ball is in your court!
;)-->
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JustThinking
Grizzy quotes:
"OMG!!!! You are dating what??????"
"As if there are no real decent kids left in that organization and there is no possibility of having a great social relationship with someone who’s greatest sin was being born into a group like that!"
"But, an innie kid is like the spawn of Satan?"
Grizzy,
Who actually criticized the person nameless is dating? TWI and it's secretive tactics have been criticized but not the individual.
nameless quote:
"WOW! I can't begin to thank you enough for all of your advice on this matter."
It seems that nameless was appreciative of the responses and found them helpful.
JT
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Weout1200
Grizzly,
What twi did you leave? Hell, the one we left not only frowned on twits dating "unbelievers", but worked overtime to split married "believers" when both didn't toe the line.
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Belle
In the "Living God's Word as a Family" class they tell the single people that they should put all their time and effort into dating people within the household (meaning TWI). Then they say that if there aren't many other singles your age involved in your area that you should invite people to fellowship and maybe they might turn on to the Word.
It's covered in depth in the class and written in the syllabus. If you're not "in" you're being groomed to be "in" and if you don't buy the line, then you will be dumped quicker than you can say "household".
They also teach that any sex outside the marriage relationship is wrong. It is no longer okay to have sex before you get married.
Double-dating is encouraged to keep things safe and light and avoid the temptation to do things that might lead to you wanting to have sex.
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lindyhopper
Hi there Nameless,
Let me preface this by saying, I am 29, I left the Way (twi) about 3 1/2, 4 years ago, and grew up from the age of 5 in this ministry. As a teen I dated two non-wafer girls and dated some what seriously three different non- way women through my twenties. I am now married to the last one. I was considered "seriouly involved" with the ministry and "witnessed" to all of these girls, but never in a pushy way. Of those only one got involved and (before she was my wife) my wife went to one meeting. As a teen I was never pressured to get my girlfriends to go to a meeting. As an adult, I was pressured a little while dating my now wife. Other than that, I was not pressured. The one girl that did get involved only went because she admired and loved the person that I was and was interested, and only then did I "witness" to her. We she left without a word a year and a half later. Good for her. I have not experienced some of the things that others here have (but do not doubt them), but I did experience pleanty of terrible things.....mostly as an adult.
Having said allll that. I think I might have a unique perspective on all this.
I sounds like your boyfriend is still living with his parents, which I would assume means you are both teenagers. I so.....go nuts! Get freaky! I don't care, but be causious when it come to the religion thing. If you are an adult...make your own decisions, but again be wary of his Wafer affiliation.
My younger brother is 21 and is right now dating someone in twi and it looks as though they are serious to the point of getting married. I would love to see him date someone outside of the ministry.
I would say do everything you would dating a non wafer, just don't get involved with his ministry.
If you have been dating for 2 months or so and he has not tried to get you to go to fellowship or a way function or continually talk about the Bible with you, it would be my guess that he is not that serious.
Few of us here actually know other posts personally and none of us truly know the reasons for them joining a cult. I had no choice at five. If you are strong headed, then great....stay that way, and ask many questions and question many answers. It is good for you and will be great for him. But have a good time you are young, enjoy it. You are obviouly attracted to this person for probably both physical and personal qualities. Focus on those qualityies and don't push the way thing too much, unless he does.
Now flame me, you flamers!
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excathedra
awwww lindy thanks. i haven't replied to nameless because i didn't know what to advise
(i did want to ask age and sex though, hi nameless, you don't have to tell)
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Tom Strange
Hopping Lindy knows whereof he speaks.
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nameless
Hi! It has been helpful to hear both sides....Lindy your post was great and related to a lot of things i have been feeling, and going through.....quick question
"If you have been dating for 2 months or so and he has not tried to get you to go to fellowship or a way function or continually talk about the Bible with you, it would be my guess that he is not that serious."
Is that serious about twi or our relationship?? Just curious....it will be good like you've all said to talk about a lot of these things. Now I am a little better prepared as well.
Thank you!
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Cherished Child
Nameless, if you and your TWI beau are still "youngsters" (teens still living at home with Mom and Dad), I doubt your relationship is of much concern yet. Everyone knows that young people will usually date numerous different individuals before finding THE one they are serious about marrying. Since Way leaders(out of neccessity) have adopted a more relaxed way of dealing with their people, they are not likely to press the the panic button and begin pressuring your beau to pressure you, until it looks like things are getting very serious. You've pointed out that you have only been dating for a couple of months. At this point, there's certainly no cause for alarm on ANYONE'S part. I would take Grizzy's advice. Date and have fun with this person. I don't doubt that he/she has some wonderful personal traits and is a lot of fun to be with. In any case, you may not go the distance, even if TWI never becomes an issue. The first blush of "new love's" excitement often wears thin over time, and people grow bored with one another...The point is to keep everything in perspective. By all means, keep your eyes and ears open. Be prepared to bolt if neccessary. But I doubt you're in any immediate danger---LOL!
By the way, I've got a couple of teenaged kids who, along with their father, are still TWI involved (I left several years ago, and would rather stick a fork in my eye before returning---but that's just me---LOL!). They're great kids, who don't have a mean or manipulative bone in their body. Anyone would be lucky to date either one of them. I still believe that most TWI people (especially, young ones) are decent, giving people, who just want to live according to God's will and live life relatively unscathed. The "ministry"---TWI, is an entity whose past is speckled with many dark and shameful acts, whose leaders at the top very enthusiastically endorsed and engaged in many of those acts, leaders who are now desperately trying to revamp TWI's image and "revise" its history in order to be attractive to new prospects. Keep the warnings in mind, but don't let it cloud your opinion of the person you're dating. They and TWI are NOT one and the same.
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nameless
Again...you all continue to amaze me. Everything has been womderful to read. I was hesitant at first to even post, but I must say....it has helped to ease so much of the initial shock I had when reading about TWI. You guys are great!
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Grizzy
Thanks Cherished Child! And Thanks lindyhopper!
JT, you are correct that no one has said anything bad about the innie being dated.
Weout, I left TWI-2, in 1999.
You see that many of the innie teens and young adults are very fine and fun humans. If I was dating one and came here and asked as nameless has, then compared many of the extreme *run* posts with the awesome person I was dating, guess what I would decide? Kind of like how the majority of ex-cult exports are so over the top they so overkill their stuff is rejected by recruits and members.
Now getting people well informed about the lil defanged cult allows them to make well informed decisions. Fear motivation works, but usually only for a short period of time. I believe that is still the biggest reason people are pulling up stakes and leaving the sacred walls of Zion.
Now, if a person was asking about joining TWI so they could marry one of these great youngins, my tune would change! But then it is always a 50-50 chance as far as if one would be recruited or if the other one would leave.
I get the biggest kick reading things posted by P-Mosh and Lindy all the time here. (Not that I ever agree with Mosh) Many TWI kids are very intelligent, very bright and very caring! Heck all my cubs left before this ole bear finally woke-up and knowing my cubs the way I do; that got me thinking!
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JustThinking
Grizz,
Nice to see someone humble enough to listen to their kids.
JT
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sadie
CC, I take it that you and your hubby do not encourage your children to date only innies. They, unlike the teens and older in this area, are very fortunate to not have that pressure.
A particular family in this area have beautiful girls who continue to live at home even though they have recieved their college education and have great jobs. They are told to date only TWI innies. There are many teens and mid-twenties innies who are just passing each other around in order to go out and enjoy their early years.
There was one guy who dated many of the girl innies and finally announced that he was going to marry his high school sweetheart. He refused to marry her until she took all the classes thru the advanced class. The ultimatum to take the classes or break off the engagement was just the first of control taught by parents and TWI.
The same guy dated several of the innies and led one of these girls to believe that they had a romantic and loving future together. The gal was so heart-broken when he announced his engagement. This same guy had been with her romatically a couple nights prior to the announcement.
Futher more, innies are told to date non-believers for sexual desires instead of the innie girls. This does not fall under the belief system of innie women blessing the men within the cult.
Good luck, have fun, but don't be blind to what is going on around you.
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lindyhopper
Hi nameless,
I ment not too serious about twi. While he may argue his ideas to the point of tears, it is his life, not just his religion you are discussing. But I don't even know this person only what he has been taught, so learn about him from him.
;)-->
I was serious about a number of relationships that I had. I was also extremely hopeful, if I was in a serious relationship, that that person would get involved in the ministry. I knew that the relationship would only go so far and at some point the one I was dating came to the same conclusion. But that is the way dating goes. It runs its course until one of you moves on, can't go any further, or you both fall madly in love and get married eventually. This happens regardless of ones religion.
I think the underlying (or overlying) theme here is. This guy is probably a great guy, have fun, but don't even consider getting involved in twi.
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Mocha Tree Girl
You sound much like me when I was first involved with TWI. I was young(early 20s), looking for a serious relationship, and just looking to form friendships with people in general. I was taken aback when I first was confronted with the "cult factor" and brushed it off. I thought I was much too smart to get sucked in. I was wrong. I didn't get sucked in too far, and never had anything bad really happen to me - but I did get sucked in because I loved the people who were in. I really invested a lot of time in my circle of TWI friendships - and in the end they all just walked away because I was not willing to turn my entire heart over to their ministry.
My biggest regret is that I wasted 2 years that I could have spent developing some real and lasting relationships with people who were looking for the same. I loved those people - but not TWI - and that is why, over ten years later, I still pop in to this forum hoping to find out what happened to them - and if they are hurting, if they are out, if they are free. I really thought I knew them - and that I was a good judge of character - but I never knew them at all. In my experience nothing was ever as it seemed - and reading the real story here makes me ache even more for those people I loved.
I thank God there was not a cute one among them - or I may have been sunk!
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