You know, until you mentioned it, I had completely forgotten that was what VPW said Paul's thorn in the flesh actually was (it's been a lot more years than I care to remember!)
I wasn't saying that his explanation of it being people was necessarily wrong. I suppose he made a good enough arguement for it being people vs. being a illness of some kind.
I was simply commenting on his criticism of what supposedly someone else was to have said Paul's thorn was, considering what we have learned of VP's own behavior since then.
VPW taught that the people who where Paul's thorns were mostly those who were trying to Judaize the gentile Christian's. This seems doctrinally sound to me.
But, VPW getting incensed over someone saying that Paul's thorn was that Paul was a sex pervert seems rather ironic since it has been revealed that VPW himself was a sex pervert.
I wonder what was going through VPW's mind when he was getting incensed about what someone said about Paul, knowing that there were many young girls that he himself had already sexually exploited - and new ones yet to conquer.
Oh, and yes some have speculated that Paul's thorn was sexual in nature. Bishop John S. Spong, a gay rights advocate in the Episcopal (Anglican) Church, speculates and writes that Paul was possibly a repressed homosexual.
Veepee was a master grifter...he often employed the method of "tranference by implication"...I just made that up
Even as he described the charecteristics of an apostle, by using Paul as an example...he made damn sure that his "definition" included himself also. He never said outright that he was an apostle...he simply let you draw your own conclusion and then say it FOR him...
Thanks to Bogey, we now see an example of this same method in reverse. He was already preparing the fertile minds of his minions for any future accusations against himself. If anyone dared to accuse him of sexual impropriety (which many did)...he would simply say..."see, they said the same thing about the apostle Paul!" He knew where his weaknesses were and he began covering his a$$ from the very beginning.
Maybe VP really did hear people say those things about Paul. Look at where he got his education.
Maybe this made Paul a man after VP's own heart and so he didn't see those things as a sin or thorn in the flesh, so he got mad at anyone suggesting that his behavior was wrong. The thorn had to be something other than sexually related.
I hope this comes across right. It makes sense in my brain.
VPW elaborated on the sex pervert part. Right before he said that he said it meant that he had a "physical weakness" for women. Wait a minute. What exactly does that mean? Did he fight like a girl? No. It seems to vaguely suggest that his unrestrained appetite was a "physical" problem so it must be OK.
I went to a Bible collage before I got involved in TWI. Flodia Bible College (FBC), the President and Fonder was caught in adultry. He was a player with the student body.(literly) I remember time after time and week after week his Sunday sermons always came around to adultry. The "sin" of it and how immoral it was.
When he was removed from his position, I thought how can somone teach on the "evils of that sin" and still live with themselves. A friend explain transference. She said what ever you want to hide in your life, that is what you speak vehemetly against. Like a smoke screen.
I believe VPW was a clever and shrewed preditor. Her didn't have to "teach" against it. All he had to do is continually reinforce his position as MOG of the world. With that in place who would ever challange his behavior.
Perhaps Loy boy's problem with homosexuality was that he was scorned or ashamed of his gay lovers. So Loy set out to prove he was now healed of the homo "infestation" by boinking every lady he could...Or perhaps he like some men had found out that his wife preferred women lovers instead of him...
I like Uncle Hairy's "transference by implication"
and Imbus' comparison to the Bible School Prez.
Didn't Carl Jung teach that our dark thoughts will find a way to express themselves, either in a sound or unsound way? This may well be an example of Vic's 'mental leakage."
Recommended Posts
Shellon
For years, I have prided myself in understanding ONE thing Victor said.
That Pauls thorn in the flesh was people.
I got it right on the questions in the back of the syllabus, too.
Are you suggesting he meant 'specific' people, as in the female kind of people and not just people in general?
Please don't take the one thing I understood away from me.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bogey76
You know, until you mentioned it, I had completely forgotten that was what VPW said Paul's thorn in the flesh actually was (it's been a lot more years than I care to remember!)
I wasn't saying that his explanation of it being people was necessarily wrong. I suppose he made a good enough arguement for it being people vs. being a illness of some kind.
I was simply commenting on his criticism of what supposedly someone else was to have said Paul's thorn was, considering what we have learned of VP's own behavior since then.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Shellon
Link to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
projection has a nice ring to it in my ears
Link to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
ps. everything i understood has been taken away from me
but i ain't sure i'm complaining
;)-->
shellon you're great
bogey thanks for posting and your insight
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Goey
VPW taught that the people who where Paul's thorns were mostly those who were trying to Judaize the gentile Christian's. This seems doctrinally sound to me.
But, VPW getting incensed over someone saying that Paul's thorn was that Paul was a sex pervert seems rather ironic since it has been revealed that VPW himself was a sex pervert.
I wonder what was going through VPW's mind when he was getting incensed about what someone said about Paul, knowing that there were many young girls that he himself had already sexually exploited - and new ones yet to conquer.
Oh, and yes some have speculated that Paul's thorn was sexual in nature. Bishop John S. Spong, a gay rights advocate in the Episcopal (Anglican) Church, speculates and writes that Paul was possibly a repressed homosexual.
Was the Apostle Paul Gay?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
yup
i mean
exactly
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WordWolf
In the videotaped class,
vpw said that his response upon hearing the guy say Paul was a
sex pervert was to
stand up,
say "SHUT UP!"
and leave the room.
Since, on other occasions, he's said he was slow to leave the room
on people saying the Bible was full of myths (said Don had left
several minutes earlier), and he did NOT yell at that, one might
wonder why this PARTICULAR statement produced what one might call a
"knee-jerk" response.
I would ask that question, anyway....
Link to comment
Share on other sites
GrouchoMarxJr
Veepee was a master grifter...he often employed the method of "tranference by implication"...I just made that up
Even as he described the charecteristics of an apostle, by using Paul as an example...he made damn sure that his "definition" included himself also. He never said outright that he was an apostle...he simply let you draw your own conclusion and then say it FOR him...
Thanks to Bogey, we now see an example of this same method in reverse. He was already preparing the fertile minds of his minions for any future accusations against himself. If anyone dared to accuse him of sexual impropriety (which many did)...he would simply say..."see, they said the same thing about the apostle Paul!" He knew where his weaknesses were and he began covering his a$$ from the very beginning.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Zixar
Here's the justifying verse:
Romans 7:8a But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence.
"Concupiscence" means sexual lusts.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
pjroberge
Link to comment
Share on other sites
The Girl From Oz
That was always my understanding too. It seems to me that VP was doing a little too much projecting
;)-->
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WaywardWayfer
Maybe VP really did hear people say those things about Paul. Look at where he got his education.
Maybe this made Paul a man after VP's own heart and so he didn't see those things as a sin or thorn in the flesh, so he got mad at anyone suggesting that his behavior was wrong. The thorn had to be something other than sexually related.
I hope this comes across right. It makes sense in my brain.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
makes sense in mine. hope you're not scared
;)-->
Link to comment
Share on other sites
imbus
Pauls thorn in his side was...a gas bubble.
:D-->
Link to comment
Share on other sites
johniam
VPW elaborated on the sex pervert part. Right before he said that he said it meant that he had a "physical weakness" for women. Wait a minute. What exactly does that mean? Did he fight like a girl? No. It seems to vaguely suggest that his unrestrained appetite was a "physical" problem so it must be OK.
LIGHT NING STRIKES ME A GA IN!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
imbus
I went to a Bible collage before I got involved in TWI. Flodia Bible College (FBC), the President and Fonder was caught in adultry. He was a player with the student body.(literly) I remember time after time and week after week his Sunday sermons always came around to adultry. The "sin" of it and how immoral it was.
When he was removed from his position, I thought how can somone teach on the "evils of that sin" and still live with themselves. A friend explain transference. She said what ever you want to hide in your life, that is what you speak vehemetly against. Like a smoke screen.
I believe VPW was a clever and shrewed preditor. Her didn't have to "teach" against it. All he had to do is continually reinforce his position as MOG of the world. With that in place who would ever challange his behavior.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
JustThinking
Hmm... Loy's big thing was homosexuality. Donna's was knowing what was going on with your family (planning, etc) and where they were.
Looking back, Bogey76's point IS very ironic.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
pjroberge
Perhaps Loy boy's problem with homosexuality was that he was scorned or ashamed of his gay lovers. So Loy set out to prove he was now healed of the homo "infestation" by boinking every lady he could...Or perhaps he like some men had found out that his wife preferred women lovers instead of him...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Juan Cruz
I like Uncle Hairy's "transference by implication"
and Imbus' comparison to the Bible School Prez.
Didn't Carl Jung teach that our dark thoughts will find a way to express themselves, either in a sound or unsound way? This may well be an example of Vic's 'mental leakage."
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.