You may well be right, thinking about the JayDubs it was a very closed group, the same 80 people there week after week, so when someone new turned up they stood out like a beacon and you would gravitate to them.
I felt love-bombed when I first started twigging it. I remember thinking several women in the fellowship may be lesbians trying to pick up on me. I had my guard up for a long time because they were so huggy and kissy. I remember during the 11th or 12th session of pfal (where you learn to speak in tongues), I was ready to dart out the door because I was so freaking scared. I didn't truly become indoctrinated into twi until the following year after I was convinced I would make a good WOW. Every body made a good WOW. That was a line to get you to go so you could grow.......are we gagging now?? They had a goal to meet of 2,000 WOWs back then.
I second the opinion about there not being a separate class of recruiters...we were all expected to be recruiters. How effective we were depended in large part upon how much we bought the company line. In my early days I loved to "recruit", because I believed in what I was saying. Later it was difficult to promote a "more abundant life" that I wasn't seeing myself
I grew up attending a Baptist church, was born again around 12 - 13 years old. I was a member of that church until I was 16. I left over an argument about how much I was required to tithe to them, as a member of the church. I then went to a Methodist church until I entered the Navy at 18.
I realized that Baptists and Methodists were hypocrites, and they knew no power nor authority in life. I was disappointed in Christianity, my Christian up-bringing had taught me that religious men are greedy, power-hungry, and have no clue of whether or not there is a god.
I had been raised a Baptist, though later I saw that denomination as entirely hypocritical and greedy. I had been into the Methodists, until we found out that their tithes were going to South America to buy firearms for drug runners.
I sought evidence that anything existed beyond the shell of mortal bodies. As a young man, I sought proof whether there was a spiritual realm and if there was a god.
I fell into a group that were studying together, spell-casting and found others who operated control over other men's minds (they fronted themselves as 'Dungeons N Dragons' Dungeon Masters). We made road trips to various places to get spell casting materials and to find 'power' places.
In my searching, I was practicing meditation and astral projection I was in a group that were studying together, and I had been singled out for grooming. I apprenticed to a wiccan sorcerer (Al S). I practiced spell-casting with friends and I saw them operate power to influence others, they did it for greed and power; while Al seemed to have a far greater understanding of bigger powers that were available. I saw friends control other people and Al float objects through the air. Al once told me that his family attended an annual festival, where they worshipped the form of a horned-frog. Al called on the name of 'Lucifer' in his prayers. Al told me that before I could attend such a festival, I would need to be given a 'spiritual guide' and a good place to do that was through 'Silva's Mind Control' seminar, he signed me up for a 'Silva's Mind Control' seminar to meet my 'spirit guide' that would reside within me and that would give me advise and guide my spiritual path. I was also invited to take part in a Wiccan blood sacrifice.
During this time, I saw men operate powers of their own that extended beyond their bodies. This proved to me, that a spiritual realm does exist. Those who operated the most power openly worshipped Lucifer and gave him homage. While awaiting the seminar, I considered that I had indeed found that powers do exist beyond my physical mortal shell, and that some of those powers are granted to men,
While awaiting the proper moon for the Wiccan ceremony. I realized that since Lucifer did exist, than there must by default exist a good G-d. I considered that if Lucifer operated power and gave such to men, then somewhere somehow there must be a G-d that must have power and He must give some to men.
One day I prayed to G-d, I asked that if He truly existed, to show me a sign, that if He gave any power to men, and if anyone who knew how to get into this righteous power, to please help me, or point me toward what religion operates His power.
The day I did this I was in my barracks room on Subase Groton. And a little later, someone knocked on my door, it was a petite pretty young girl that I had never seen before (I later learned her name was Holly, now Holly Liphold) she did not introduce herself, she only said "Do you want to operate power in your life?" I followed her, to a family's home (Ed and Jackie Beirnet) they were running a public Ex. I paid for the PFAL class that day. Though do to a scheduling conflict I could not take PFAL immediately, but the next time I was on the surface, they did have a class running, and I took PFAL.
I took PFAL after which they said they were having a fellowship there each month, so I attended there for the next few months (the class had been run at the branch-wow home run by 4 wow girls). Someone once asked me what 'twig' I was in, I had to ask what a twig was. Eventually I was introduced to twigs and found out about weekly fellowships. I attended a fellowship there (in Connecticut) until 1981, when I was tranfered to Virginia.
A couple years later, I ran into one of my former friends, RH was still using spell-casting, and while I visited with him, he showed me that he had manipulated two of our previous friends to give him their wives whenever he wanted them. He demonstrated his powers, and I saw that the only purpose of it was to augment his greed.
I was looking for proof of G-d's existence and whether His power is granted to men. I found my answer, first through spell-casting then later through TWI. Had it not been for TWI, I am fairly sure that I would have likely been trained in a significantly different faith. I believe that TWI was the best that G-d had available, for some period of time, and that some great things were taught therein. It is truly a shame that corrupt people have done what they did.
Still PFAL was the Greatest thing that I ever did in my life.
The first time I met a walking corpse, it was Steve Strezpec. He had been counseling a couple that wanted to get married, and he had put them off for six months. The guy was military and they needed to be married, soon so that she could move to his next duty station with him. Strezpec refused to give them an answer of date. I had already been ordained elsewhere, so I married the couple. When Strezpec found out, he blew his top. He said that he had never intended to marry them, he had been leading them on, hoping that eventually they would tire out and give up. He would never marry a non-corpse couple, as nobody but corpse could ever understand commitment. It was TWI policy to lie to non-corpse (since they are not REAL believers, it does not matter if you lie to them, they don't really count anyway). He got really upset, that the truth might be known to believers in his limb, so he threw me out and declared that I was 'born of a different father'. (this couple, "the Strayhorns" are still married, I still speak with them occasionally.)
Interesting story Galen...especially about how the corps could lie to the rank and file because they were'nt "real believers"...it was all part of that arrogant attitude started by veepee and carried on by king okie.
Wierwille was all about recruitment...his most successful recruitment tools were his pfal class, the wow program and the rock of ages festival held yearly. Each fed off the other and reinforced Veeppe's whole concept of "welcome to wayworld". Interesting to note, that the bufoon, Martindale, dissolved all three of these recruitment tools, shortly after his reign of idiocy began. Lcm was handed a "thriving business" on a silver platter...all he had to do was keep the trains running on time...instead, he decided to disassemble the most successful programs that twi had...a real genius. ;)-->
quote: I was looking for proof of G-d's existence and whether His power is granted to men.
Galen -- your continued use of G-d intrigues me. The only folks I have ever seen do that are those in the Messianic movement, though there are a few who (out of respect for The Holy Name), will do the same.
Are you fellowshipping with a Messianic group now, or is this something you say from personal preference? If I'm being too nosy, say so. I don't mean to intrude, but I was/am curious. :)-->
quote:Oh drat...this thread just won't be complete now without your input. But thank you, a thousand thank yous even, for informing us why you choose to post the reason why you're not posting. I wait in eager anticipation for your next 610 posts, bringing you to the magic 10,000.
Take the writings of exy.every letter is a statement....every word is a drop of golden sun... every phrase a symphony... every sentence a...oh, never mind.:P-->
"I was looking for proof of G-d's existence and whether His power is granted to men."
"Galen -- your continued use of G-d intrigues me. The only folks I have ever seen do that are those in the Messianic movement, though there are a few who (out of respect for The Holy Name), will do the same."
I have in the past fellowshipped with Messianics.
There once a saying about comparing different sects of beleivers and holding on to that which you have found as the greatest thing of each. Well anyway, I feel that I do own our Heavenly Father respect, and I do not desire to see His name trashed. This is seen many many times in the Bible.
We also deal with Mennonites routinely, and there is yet another beleif system of which I highly respect. (We use a mennonite curriculum for Home-schooling).
Just checking, Refiner. It's a free country and if you are writing something, it would make sense what with all the ex-cult people you've researched.
Smarter than the ave-e-rich bears? We think so. Thanks for the compliment!
Yes, I cried out to God one night and the next DAY, I ran into someone who had taken THE CLASS and spoke just the right words to get me to take it: "I'm not telling you you should take it, but it sure answered all of my questions."
Well, he was serious and NOT even involved and even had dropped out before finishing the class, but no, I helped even helped GET MY CLASS TOGETHER by inviting others to take it with me and the rest is history, or at least WAS for the next 15 years.
quote: i think what bothers me is how could god answer a prayer of mine that would ultimately cause me so much pain ?
I've often thought of this myself Exxie. This I believe is why EX-TWIERS (even TWI members) are so torn when they either leave, think about leaving or are asked to leave. It truly is a dilemma for some.
"I was looking for proof of G-d's existence and whether His power is granted to men."
"Galen -- your continued use of G-d intrigues me. The only folks I have ever seen do that are those in the Messianic movement, though there are a few who (out of respect for The Holy Name), will do the same."
I have in the past fellowshipped with Messianics.
There once a saying about comparing different sects of beleivers and holding on to that which you have found as the greatest thing of each. Well anyway, I feel that I do own our Heavenly Father respect, and I do not desire to see His name trashed. This is seen many many times in the Bible.
We also deal with Mennonites routinely, and there is yet another beleif system of which I highly respect. (We use a mennonite curriculum for Home-schooling).
Respect for God's name is important, of course; but GOD is His job description, not His name. His full name is given in Ex. 34:6,7, though I guess He's most often called by the abbreviated form, Jehovah. Using God's name is not the same as using it in vain.
"i think what bothers me is how could god answer a prayer of mine that would ultimately cause me so much pain ?"
"I've often thought of this myself Exxie. This I believe is why EX-TWIERS (even TWI members) are so torn when they either leave, think about leaving or are asked to leave. It truly is a dilemma for some."
First I apologize for anything that I have done, that in any way added to your pain.
Next, I wonder. When driving my bike sometimes I 'see' a log in the road (or I blink and can't focus on a patch of the pavement ahead of me) when this happens I shift to a different part of the lane. Sometimes as I clear the curve ahead, I go by whatever was in the road, and I am thankful that I 'received' the information that something was in fact ahead on the road and that I needed to get into a differnet part of the lane. Does this happen all of the time? no. Does it happen sometimes? yes. Will it happen for you just in the same way it happens for me? I have no idea.
If I need to be in the center of the lane, during this mile; does that mean I need to be in the center of the lane forever more? no.
Perhaps 20 miles down the road, I will need to be hanging out on the right extreme edge of the road. I look as far ahead as I can, and I try to stay alert, and I pray, and I am thankfull.
Did our Heavenly Father desire that I be a part of TWI? I beleive so, yes.
Did that mean that I was to stay in TWI forever, I dont think so.
If I can learn something from one ministry this month, be blessed and bless others; than wonderful. If next month I am lead to yet another ministry, then fine. Is it possible that I may have been lead into one ministry and that I stayed there longer than I should have? It is possible. Perhaps I missed the signal to leave at the appropriate time, or perhaps there was still some person that I still needed to meet and to bless there, that caused me to need to stay just a little bit longer. That is still okay by me.
I hope that "The Great Architect of the Universe" sees far more than I do, and has further plans for me still.
God answered Sexie's request so's she could get to know ME. The pain that was caused, that's the devilish part.
But I do HOPE (there, I said it) at the return we will indeed know, even as also we are known. Maybe that's the one consolation we have - knowing that someday, "we'll understand why ...". I sure ain't gots all da answers and their universal proofs.
quote: Regardless, Your praying to God inquiring after power, and then that girl turning up next day talking about accessing power... well...thats freaky.
I rarely post here anymore, but have to say, this really isn't all that freaky. TWI courted people who were seeking answers, seeking God. So - it was pretty easy to see them as an answer to prayer if you happened to cry out and they were anywhere near!
It happened to me - I prayed for a group of friends who were excited and fired up about what God was doing in their lives, and I met a brand new group of WOWs soon after. One WOW family worked where I worked, and soon after another WOW family moved next door to me. I thought for sure it was a God thing - but I was actively LOOKING for answers. I was 22 and right out of college, living in a new town, on my own for the first time. Ripe for the picking!! In that year I was courted by two cults - TWI and Church of Christ. My TWI friends were who I ran to when I got freaked out by COC and their heavy handedness. They assured me I was not crazy - and much more spritually in tune than those people thrown about by unsound doctrine. In fact, I signed my "Green Card" the night some whacko COC girl told my I was not really saved because I questioned their doctrine-->.
I think what has made it so hard for me to "forget" that 2 years is that I loved the WOWs I met and spent time with - and was friends with. It was fun to have a group of friends who I could talk God with - and be excited about stupid **** about - freely share what God was doing in my life with - even the mundane stuff. I really had no idea what was going on under the surface though - no clue the kind of pressure they were under to "raise me up" to their level of "believing." I genuinely cared about them, and to this day wonder what has happened to them - why they are still in - how they have been hurt - if they are okay. One is married to clergy - and I wonder how it is that the person I thought I knew, and who I admired because she was smart, dedicated, loving and strong, could still be in - and high up on the food chain. I wonder did I ever really know her at all? Was it all just an act.
And to the why would God put me in that situation question - I don't know. I don't know that God put me there at all - but I know that I grew tons as a result. As a result of TWI I had to examine everything I thought I believed, and had been brought up believing, and read, and been force fed. I feel I have a much more solid foundation having done so.
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excathedra
good people do weird things when they believe in "it"
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Refiner
I hadnt thought of it like that JT.
You may well be right, thinking about the JayDubs it was a very closed group, the same 80 people there week after week, so when someone new turned up they stood out like a beacon and you would gravitate to them.
Certainly a factor in the "focused attention".
Many thanks.
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Nottawayfer
I felt love-bombed when I first started twigging it. I remember thinking several women in the fellowship may be lesbians trying to pick up on me. I had my guard up for a long time because they were so huggy and kissy. I remember during the 11th or 12th session of pfal (where you learn to speak in tongues), I was ready to dart out the door because I was so freaking scared. I didn't truly become indoctrinated into twi until the following year after I was convinced I would make a good WOW. Every body made a good WOW. That was a line to get you to go so you could grow.......are we gagging now?? They had a goal to meet of 2,000 WOWs back then.
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excathedra
i'm kind of in a ....y mood and don't feel like telling about my witnessing and undershepherding experience
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Refiner
Exy. You are the GSCafe Goddess and as such are allowed to feel and/or behave any way you please
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Oakspear
I second the opinion about there not being a separate class of recruiters...we were all expected to be recruiters. How effective we were depended in large part upon how much we bought the company line. In my early days I loved to "recruit", because I believed in what I was saying. Later it was difficult to promote a "more abundant life" that I wasn't seeing myself
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Oakspear
My cousin worked in the same office with the local twig leader. He witnessed to her and she started attending twigs.
My aunt asked me to accompany my cousin to twig, which I did.
My cousin stayed for less than six months, I stayed for twenty four years.
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waterbuffalo
Refiner,
You're writing a book about us, aren't you?
WB
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Galen
I grew up attending a Baptist church, was born again around 12 - 13 years old. I was a member of that church until I was 16. I left over an argument about how much I was required to tithe to them, as a member of the church. I then went to a Methodist church until I entered the Navy at 18.
I realized that Baptists and Methodists were hypocrites, and they knew no power nor authority in life. I was disappointed in Christianity, my Christian up-bringing had taught me that religious men are greedy, power-hungry, and have no clue of whether or not there is a god.
I had been raised a Baptist, though later I saw that denomination as entirely hypocritical and greedy. I had been into the Methodists, until we found out that their tithes were going to South America to buy firearms for drug runners.
I sought evidence that anything existed beyond the shell of mortal bodies. As a young man, I sought proof whether there was a spiritual realm and if there was a god.
I fell into a group that were studying together, spell-casting and found others who operated control over other men's minds (they fronted themselves as 'Dungeons N Dragons' Dungeon Masters). We made road trips to various places to get spell casting materials and to find 'power' places.
In my searching, I was practicing meditation and astral projection I was in a group that were studying together, and I had been singled out for grooming. I apprenticed to a wiccan sorcerer (Al S). I practiced spell-casting with friends and I saw them operate power to influence others, they did it for greed and power; while Al seemed to have a far greater understanding of bigger powers that were available. I saw friends control other people and Al float objects through the air. Al once told me that his family attended an annual festival, where they worshipped the form of a horned-frog. Al called on the name of 'Lucifer' in his prayers. Al told me that before I could attend such a festival, I would need to be given a 'spiritual guide' and a good place to do that was through 'Silva's Mind Control' seminar, he signed me up for a 'Silva's Mind Control' seminar to meet my 'spirit guide' that would reside within me and that would give me advise and guide my spiritual path. I was also invited to take part in a Wiccan blood sacrifice.
During this time, I saw men operate powers of their own that extended beyond their bodies. This proved to me, that a spiritual realm does exist. Those who operated the most power openly worshipped Lucifer and gave him homage. While awaiting the seminar, I considered that I had indeed found that powers do exist beyond my physical mortal shell, and that some of those powers are granted to men,
While awaiting the proper moon for the Wiccan ceremony. I realized that since Lucifer did exist, than there must by default exist a good G-d. I considered that if Lucifer operated power and gave such to men, then somewhere somehow there must be a G-d that must have power and He must give some to men.
One day I prayed to G-d, I asked that if He truly existed, to show me a sign, that if He gave any power to men, and if anyone who knew how to get into this righteous power, to please help me, or point me toward what religion operates His power.
The day I did this I was in my barracks room on Subase Groton. And a little later, someone knocked on my door, it was a petite pretty young girl that I had never seen before (I later learned her name was Holly, now Holly Liphold) she did not introduce herself, she only said "Do you want to operate power in your life?" I followed her, to a family's home (Ed and Jackie Beirnet) they were running a public Ex. I paid for the PFAL class that day. Though do to a scheduling conflict I could not take PFAL immediately, but the next time I was on the surface, they did have a class running, and I took PFAL.
I took PFAL after which they said they were having a fellowship there each month, so I attended there for the next few months (the class had been run at the branch-wow home run by 4 wow girls). Someone once asked me what 'twig' I was in, I had to ask what a twig was. Eventually I was introduced to twigs and found out about weekly fellowships. I attended a fellowship there (in Connecticut) until 1981, when I was tranfered to Virginia.
A couple years later, I ran into one of my former friends, RH was still using spell-casting, and while I visited with him, he showed me that he had manipulated two of our previous friends to give him their wives whenever he wanted them. He demonstrated his powers, and I saw that the only purpose of it was to augment his greed.
I was looking for proof of G-d's existence and whether His power is granted to men. I found my answer, first through spell-casting then later through TWI. Had it not been for TWI, I am fairly sure that I would have likely been trained in a significantly different faith. I believe that TWI was the best that G-d had available, for some period of time, and that some great things were taught therein. It is truly a shame that corrupt people have done what they did.
Still PFAL was the Greatest thing that I ever did in my life.
The first time I met a walking corpse, it was Steve Strezpec. He had been counseling a couple that wanted to get married, and he had put them off for six months. The guy was military and they needed to be married, soon so that she could move to his next duty station with him. Strezpec refused to give them an answer of date. I had already been ordained elsewhere, so I married the couple. When Strezpec found out, he blew his top. He said that he had never intended to marry them, he had been leading them on, hoping that eventually they would tire out and give up. He would never marry a non-corpse couple, as nobody but corpse could ever understand commitment. It was TWI policy to lie to non-corpse (since they are not REAL believers, it does not matter if you lie to them, they don't really count anyway). He got really upset, that the truth might be known to believers in his limb, so he threw me out and declared that I was 'born of a different father'. (this couple, "the Strayhorns" are still married, I still speak with them occasionally.)
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GrouchoMarxJr
Interesting story Galen...especially about how the corps could lie to the rank and file because they were'nt "real believers"...it was all part of that arrogant attitude started by veepee and carried on by king okie.
Wierwille was all about recruitment...his most successful recruitment tools were his pfal class, the wow program and the rock of ages festival held yearly. Each fed off the other and reinforced Veeppe's whole concept of "welcome to wayworld". Interesting to note, that the bufoon, Martindale, dissolved all three of these recruitment tools, shortly after his reign of idiocy began. Lcm was handed a "thriving business" on a silver platter...all he had to do was keep the trains running on time...instead, he decided to disassemble the most successful programs that twi had...a real genius.
;)-->
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dmiller
Galen -- your continued use of G-d intrigues me. The only folks I have ever seen do that are those in the Messianic movement, though there are a few who (out of respect for The Holy Name), will do the same.
Are you fellowshipping with a Messianic group now, or is this something you say from personal preference? If I'm being too nosy, say so. I don't mean to intrude, but I was/am curious.
:)-->
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Refiner
Galen, that was a real interesting read.
youve been around a bit, Silva mind powers...Wicca....
Regardless, Your praying to God inquiring after power, and then that girl turning up next day talking about accessing power... well...thats freaky.
Now who was it said I was writing a book about you guys?
Certainly not true.
I merely dropped in here for a look and to tell the truth ive taken a real shine to this place and to a whole lot of the people here.
You guys appear to be way smarter and better read than your average ex cult member.
A lot of chat boards are...well....90 percent FLUFF. Thats not the case here.
I wouldnt say it if I didnt think it was so.
So Im hanging around a while till you get sick of me.
:D-->
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excathedra
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excathedra
i prayed and cried out to god right before someone knocked on my dormitory door freshman year
i've often wondered about that
geo. thinks it's probably coincidence and sometimes i do and sometimes i don't
???
i think what bothers me is how could god answer a prayer of mine that would ultimately cause me so much pain ?
.
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Refiner
Take the writings of exy.every letter is a statement....every word is a drop of golden sun... every phrase a symphony... every sentence a...oh, never mind.
:P-->
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Galen
dmiller:
"I was looking for proof of G-d's existence and whether His power is granted to men."
"Galen -- your continued use of G-d intrigues me. The only folks I have ever seen do that are those in the Messianic movement, though there are a few who (out of respect for The Holy Name), will do the same."
I have in the past fellowshipped with Messianics.
There once a saying about comparing different sects of beleivers and holding on to that which you have found as the greatest thing of each. Well anyway, I feel that I do own our Heavenly Father respect, and I do not desire to see His name trashed. This is seen many many times in the Bible.
We also deal with Mennonites routinely, and there is yet another beleif system of which I highly respect. (We use a mennonite curriculum for Home-schooling).
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waterbuffalo
Just checking, Refiner. It's a free country and if you are writing something, it would make sense what with all the ex-cult people you've researched.
Smarter than the ave-e-rich bears? We think so. Thanks for the compliment!
Yes, I cried out to God one night and the next DAY, I ran into someone who had taken THE CLASS and spoke just the right words to get me to take it: "I'm not telling you you should take it, but it sure answered all of my questions."
Well, he was serious and NOT even involved and even had dropped out before finishing the class, but no, I helped even helped GET MY CLASS TOGETHER by inviting others to take it with me and the rest is history, or at least WAS for the next 15 years.
WB
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A la prochaine
Dear Exxie,
I've often thought of this myself Exxie. This I believe is why EX-TWIERS (even TWI members) are so torn when they either leave, think about leaving or are asked to leave. It truly is a dilemma for some.
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GeorgeStGeorge
Respect for God's name is important, of course; but GOD is His job description, not His name. His full name is given in Ex. 34:6,7, though I guess He's most often called by the abbreviated form, Jehovah. Using God's name is not the same as using it in vain.
George
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Galen
la prochaine and Ex:
"i think what bothers me is how could god answer a prayer of mine that would ultimately cause me so much pain ?"
"I've often thought of this myself Exxie. This I believe is why EX-TWIERS (even TWI members) are so torn when they either leave, think about leaving or are asked to leave. It truly is a dilemma for some."
First I apologize for anything that I have done, that in any way added to your pain.
Next, I wonder. When driving my bike sometimes I 'see' a log in the road (or I blink and can't focus on a patch of the pavement ahead of me) when this happens I shift to a different part of the lane. Sometimes as I clear the curve ahead, I go by whatever was in the road, and I am thankful that I 'received' the information that something was in fact ahead on the road and that I needed to get into a differnet part of the lane. Does this happen all of the time? no. Does it happen sometimes? yes. Will it happen for you just in the same way it happens for me? I have no idea.
If I need to be in the center of the lane, during this mile; does that mean I need to be in the center of the lane forever more? no.
Perhaps 20 miles down the road, I will need to be hanging out on the right extreme edge of the road. I look as far ahead as I can, and I try to stay alert, and I pray, and I am thankfull.
Did our Heavenly Father desire that I be a part of TWI? I beleive so, yes.
Did that mean that I was to stay in TWI forever, I dont think so.
If I can learn something from one ministry this month, be blessed and bless others; than wonderful. If next month I am lead to yet another ministry, then fine. Is it possible that I may have been lead into one ministry and that I stayed there longer than I should have? It is possible. Perhaps I missed the signal to leave at the appropriate time, or perhaps there was still some person that I still needed to meet and to bless there, that caused me to need to stay just a little bit longer. That is still okay by me.
I hope that "The Great Architect of the Universe" sees far more than I do, and has further plans for me still.
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tomtuttle
God answered Sexie's request so's she could get to know ME. The pain that was caused, that's the devilish part.
But I do HOPE (there, I said it) at the return we will indeed know, even as also we are known. Maybe that's the one consolation we have - knowing that someday, "we'll understand why ...". I sure ain't gots all da answers and their universal proofs.
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excathedra
and to know know know you is to love love love you g-ddamnit
no offense galen, i just really don't think he minds
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Mocha Tree Girl
I rarely post here anymore, but have to say, this really isn't all that freaky. TWI courted people who were seeking answers, seeking God. So - it was pretty easy to see them as an answer to prayer if you happened to cry out and they were anywhere near!
It happened to me - I prayed for a group of friends who were excited and fired up about what God was doing in their lives, and I met a brand new group of WOWs soon after. One WOW family worked where I worked, and soon after another WOW family moved next door to me. I thought for sure it was a God thing - but I was actively LOOKING for answers. I was 22 and right out of college, living in a new town, on my own for the first time. Ripe for the picking!! In that year I was courted by two cults - TWI and Church of Christ. My TWI friends were who I ran to when I got freaked out by COC and their heavy handedness. They assured me I was not crazy - and much more spritually in tune than those people thrown about by unsound doctrine. In fact, I signed my "Green Card" the night some whacko COC girl told my I was not really saved because I questioned their doctrine
-->.
I think what has made it so hard for me to "forget" that 2 years is that I loved the WOWs I met and spent time with - and was friends with. It was fun to have a group of friends who I could talk God with - and be excited about stupid **** about - freely share what God was doing in my life with - even the mundane stuff. I really had no idea what was going on under the surface though - no clue the kind of pressure they were under to "raise me up" to their level of "believing." I genuinely cared about them, and to this day wonder what has happened to them - why they are still in - how they have been hurt - if they are okay. One is married to clergy - and I wonder how it is that the person I thought I knew, and who I admired because she was smart, dedicated, loving and strong, could still be in - and high up on the food chain. I wonder did I ever really know her at all? Was it all just an act.
And to the why would God put me in that situation question - I don't know. I don't know that God put me there at all - but I know that I grew tons as a result. As a result of TWI I had to examine everything I thought I believed, and had been brought up believing, and read, and been force fed. I feel I have a much more solid foundation having done so.
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WordWolf
Switching from CoC to twi-or vice versa-
is a lot like having the stains removed from one pair of pants and placed
on another pair of pants.
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