I think we were taught after we were saved that it was God's perogative on whether or not He would send one to help us in a situation. That whole teaching contradicted what a lot of other people were doing outside of wayworld like believing in and praying to their own angel. Wasn't there articles or a book or something put together?
Hey wayward.. If you want some fun reading...Frank E Peretti writes some intersesting books.
Novels about people and spiritual warfare...about how the believers empower themselves and the angels to fight back against the darkness with their prayers and unity...how the devil spirits are strengthened when they are able to distract the believers focus on God ...ie divison from back biting lack of prayer...adversity....thereby empowering themselves to overpower the angels in the scirmish...
Just stories...but the interactions between the angels the devil spirits and the believers is quite thought provoking.
*This present Darkness* is the first one I guess ...
"What do you believe about angels? We were taught that they were only around long enough for a person to get saved and then we were on our own.
. . . Psa 91:11
It seems to contradict that teaching."
I think that you are possibly missing it, a little. As I understood and taught it, G-d does know who is going to be saved and some of the angels may be charged with guarding you as such. During previous administrations, when they were not born of spirit, they often really needed help. Now with grace and the possibility of being born of spirit, we may or may not strive to be storng in the spirit and be able to defend ourselves. Even a born-again beleiver may still help in his defense, it was not that angels can not help you once you are born again, as they still could. But rather the encouragement for us to study the Bible, pray, walk with Christ, have a personal relationship with Jesus, and to be strong as 'Sons of G-d'; if we are to one day rise up and be greater than the angels, then we dont further 'need' them to guard and protect over us. Obviously their will always be some among us who will always need others to shield them (until of course the coming of Christ to gatrher us in).
quote:We were taught that they were only around long enough for a person to get saved and then we were on our own.
Whoever taught that was ignorant of the Bible. And where in the Bible does it say that?
In Acts 8:26 an angel of the Lord speaks to Phillip and give him directions. Philip was already saved.
In Acts 12 an angel busts Peter out of jail. Peter was already saved.
Trefor is right. So much was taught concering devil spirits that any teachings about angels were easy to miss. TWI could give intricate details about devils spirits - names and kinds and exactly how they operate, but very little was ever mentioned concerning angels where they now fit in.
Galen - I never took the advanced class so I wouldn't have known they covered it in there.
But none of us had to wait for an advanced calss to learn about devil spirits did we?
But as it was a third of the angels that rebelled with Lucifer that left two thirds (2:1 ratio) working for God. Degree in higher mathematics nor instruction by MOG required!
Gosh - how much more of the advanced class could people have actually worked out for themselves! :D-->
What do I believe about Angels? Well, I believe everything that Goey said AND I believe in additon to his wonderful comments that they are all around us (the believing, Christian ones) AND I believe what Rascal said about our prayers calling for help bring them to do warfare for us in the spirit realm--AND what ex-10 said.
There now. That's all I believe about angels for right now :-)
Also, Michael is one of my favorite movies, ever--and I think they COULD be a lot like him. But, then again, they might each have their own personalities sorta like us.
I do know they are respectful of Jesus and the Father.
quote:We were taught that they were only around long enough for a person to get saved and then we were on our own.
Whoever taught that was ignorant of the Bible. And where in the Bible does it say that?
In Acts 8:26 an angel of the Lord speaks to Phillip and give him directions. Philip was already saved.
In Acts 12 an angel busts Peter out of jail. Peter was already saved.
Trefor is right. So much was taught concering devil spirits that any teachings about angels were easy to miss. TWI could give intricate details about devils spirits - names and kinds and exactly how they operate, but very little was ever mentioned concerning angels where they now fit in.
The entire subject of angels and their relations with us-or lack thereof-
in twi, was based on a gross oversimplification and misunderstanding of
Hebrews 1:14.
Contrasting Jesus with the angels, it says
"Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be
heirs of salvation?"
twi took off from there, and began speculating lengthy teachings on the subject,
never checking them against Scripture.
They started by saying that this meant angels were supposed to minister to us until
we get born again, after that, we're on our own.
I myself heard the great forehead explain that this is why sometimes it would be
good NOT to speak The Word to someone, why sometimes it would be good for them NOT
to be born again-because that would make the angels scram. I'm not even going to
dignify that "private interpretation" with a response.
It should have been obvious to me from the get-go why this was so wrong.
(I knew it was nonsense from the beginning-twi never seemed to have any real
understanding of "Advanced" level materials, but I didn't have a lengthy explanation.)
An heir is an heir APPARENT until the heir INHERITS.
The heir APPARENT of Britain is Prince Charles. If, however, a tragic polo accident
kills him today, he will not inherit-the next in line will inherit.
It should be obvious from even a cursory look at the book of Acts that twi's official
stance fails miserably to account for the actions of angels since the day of Pentecost,
and the rules since then are supposedly fully in effect now.
The only generalization one MIGHT get from that verse is that angels are ministering
But I gotta tell ya -- I HATED the movie Micheal and thought it was a mockery.
He had sex. Also he went out into the field and was chasing the bull like an idiot. Sorry, I hope they are NOT like him. I HOPE they are more like "Touched by an Angel"
But just cause I do not like "Michael" does not mean I do not like you. Love you WB! Hated the movie, though ;)-->
The angels booklet they put out doesn't have much information at all. The majority of the book is talking about Stephen having the "face of an angel" and what that means.
Maybe TWI II taught about angels differently but what they taught us was the guardian angel line. Of course they talked about the spiritual battle going on, but that was in the context of angels and devil spirits fighting , not necessarily because they were protecting us on an individual level. Just good battling evil in general. The verse about "voluntary worshipping of angels" was used quite a bit.
We could not wear angel pins, have angels on our Christmas trees or have anything to do with angels - period. Angels don't have wings and God-forbid we should not confront that among our family, friends and co-workers. LCM went on for a long time about people worshipping angels and how Nicole Brown-Simpson's family started wearing angel pins because Nicole was wearing one when she was killed. He screamed at the top of his lungs about that and how the angel wasn't protecting her when it was needed and that the "angel" was really a devil spirit. It's a dog whistle for devil spirits, he said.
He taught how we are superior to the angels and will be judging them at the return. We learned to despise angels almost as much as Jesus from LCM's teachings.
What brought this up was the verse Hebrews 13:2 -
Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.
We were reading around this verse in fellowship and I thought about how that ties into doing good unto ALL MEN. It seems as though we may have interaction with angels and we may be protected, cared for and treated as particular individuals to them. That maybe it isn't some ethereal spiritual battle that doesn't concern us because it's going on in the firmament. The angels are on their own and we're on our own just doesn't seem to fit for me.
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smurfette
WW,
I think we were taught after we were saved that it was God's perogative on whether or not He would send one to help us in a situation. That whole teaching contradicted what a lot of other people were doing outside of wayworld like believing in and praying to their own angel. Wasn't there articles or a book or something put together?
Smurfy
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rascal
Hey wayward.. If you want some fun reading...Frank E Peretti writes some intersesting books.
Novels about people and spiritual warfare...about how the believers empower themselves and the angels to fight back against the darkness with their prayers and unity...how the devil spirits are strengthened when they are able to distract the believers focus on God ...ie divison from back biting lack of prayer...adversity....thereby empowering themselves to overpower the angels in the scirmish...
Just stories...but the interactions between the angels the devil spirits and the believers is quite thought provoking.
*This present Darkness* is the first one I guess ...
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Trefor Heywood
TWI spent so much time talking about devil spirits that I don't recall any teaching about angels.
Not even that they actually outnumber devil spirits 2-1 !
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Tom Strange
The Way taught us what they wanted us to think... what if Angels are like Nicholas Cage in that movie with Meg Ryan?
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Galen
WaywardWayfer:
"What do you believe about angels? We were taught that they were only around long enough for a person to get saved and then we were on our own.
. . . Psa 91:11
It seems to contradict that teaching."
I think that you are possibly missing it, a little. As I understood and taught it, G-d does know who is going to be saved and some of the angels may be charged with guarding you as such. During previous administrations, when they were not born of spirit, they often really needed help. Now with grace and the possibility of being born of spirit, we may or may not strive to be storng in the spirit and be able to defend ourselves. Even a born-again beleiver may still help in his defense, it was not that angels can not help you once you are born again, as they still could. But rather the encouragement for us to study the Bible, pray, walk with Christ, have a personal relationship with Jesus, and to be strong as 'Sons of G-d'; if we are to one day rise up and be greater than the angels, then we dont further 'need' them to guard and protect over us. Obviously their will always be some among us who will always need others to shield them (until of course the coming of Christ to gatrher us in).
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Galen
The first time, I heard the math showing that demons are out-numbered, was at the advanced class.
I remember showing many people at work after that the verses. Not meaning to contradict you, but I do recall clearly that it was taught.
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ex10
Well there are places in the gospels, where angels "ministered to" Jesus.
:)-->
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def59
My current pastor teachers that angels means messengers and can be taken as ministers.
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Goey
Whoever taught that was ignorant of the Bible. And where in the Bible does it say that?
In Acts 8:26 an angel of the Lord speaks to Phillip and give him directions. Philip was already saved.
In Acts 12 an angel busts Peter out of jail. Peter was already saved.
Trefor is right. So much was taught concering devil spirits that any teachings about angels were easy to miss. TWI could give intricate details about devils spirits - names and kinds and exactly how they operate, but very little was ever mentioned concerning angels where they now fit in.
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Trefor Heywood
Galen - I never took the advanced class so I wouldn't have known they covered it in there.
But none of us had to wait for an advanced calss to learn about devil spirits did we?
But as it was a third of the angels that rebelled with Lucifer that left two thirds (2:1 ratio) working for God. Degree in higher mathematics nor instruction by MOG required!
Gosh - how much more of the advanced class could people have actually worked out for themselves!
:D-->
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Dot Matrix
I was taught we had GUARDIAN angels until we were saved then the guardian angels left because CHRIST in you was bigger than angels around you.
I was never taught you would not interact with angels again -- it was just GUARDIAN angels...
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waterbuffalo
What do I believe about Angels? Well, I believe everything that Goey said AND I believe in additon to his wonderful comments that they are all around us (the believing, Christian ones) AND I believe what Rascal said about our prayers calling for help bring them to do warfare for us in the spirit realm--AND what ex-10 said.
There now. That's all I believe about angels for right now :-)
Also, Michael is one of my favorite movies, ever--and I think they COULD be a lot like him. But, then again, they might each have their own personalities sorta like us.
I do know they are respectful of Jesus and the Father.
Wb
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WordWolf
The entire subject of angels and their relations with us-or lack thereof-
in twi, was based on a gross oversimplification and misunderstanding of
Hebrews 1:14.
Contrasting Jesus with the angels, it says
"Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be
heirs of salvation?"
twi took off from there, and began speculating lengthy teachings on the subject,
never checking them against Scripture.
They started by saying that this meant angels were supposed to minister to us until
we get born again, after that, we're on our own.
I myself heard the great forehead explain that this is why sometimes it would be
good NOT to speak The Word to someone, why sometimes it would be good for them NOT
to be born again-because that would make the angels scram. I'm not even going to
dignify that "private interpretation" with a response.
It should have been obvious to me from the get-go why this was so wrong.
(I knew it was nonsense from the beginning-twi never seemed to have any real
understanding of "Advanced" level materials, but I didn't have a lengthy explanation.)
An heir is an heir APPARENT until the heir INHERITS.
The heir APPARENT of Britain is Prince Charles. If, however, a tragic polo accident
kills him today, he will not inherit-the next in line will inherit.
It should be obvious from even a cursory look at the book of Acts that twi's official
stance fails miserably to account for the actions of angels since the day of Pentecost,
and the rules since then are supposedly fully in effect now.
The only generalization one MIGHT get from that verse is that angels are ministering
spirits. That covers a lot of ground.
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Dot Matrix
WaterB
I am glad you believe in angels, as do I.
But I gotta tell ya -- I HATED the movie Micheal and thought it was a mockery.
He had sex. Also he went out into the field and was chasing the bull like an idiot. Sorry, I hope they are NOT like him. I HOPE they are more like "Touched by an Angel"
But just cause I do not like "Michael" does not mean I do not like you. Love you WB! Hated the movie, though
;)-->
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WaywardWayfer
The angels booklet they put out doesn't have much information at all. The majority of the book is talking about Stephen having the "face of an angel" and what that means.
Maybe TWI II taught about angels differently but what they taught us was the guardian angel line. Of course they talked about the spiritual battle going on, but that was in the context of angels and devil spirits fighting , not necessarily because they were protecting us on an individual level. Just good battling evil in general. The verse about "voluntary worshipping of angels" was used quite a bit.
We could not wear angel pins, have angels on our Christmas trees or have anything to do with angels - period. Angels don't have wings and God-forbid we should not confront that among our family, friends and co-workers. LCM went on for a long time about people worshipping angels and how Nicole Brown-Simpson's family started wearing angel pins because Nicole was wearing one when she was killed. He screamed at the top of his lungs about that and how the angel wasn't protecting her when it was needed and that the "angel" was really a devil spirit. It's a dog whistle for devil spirits, he said.
He taught how we are superior to the angels and will be judging them at the return. We learned to despise angels almost as much as Jesus from LCM's teachings.
What brought this up was the verse Hebrews 13:2 -
Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.
We were reading around this verse in fellowship and I thought about how that ties into doing good unto ALL MEN. It seems as though we may have interaction with angels and we may be protected, cared for and treated as particular individuals to them. That maybe it isn't some ethereal spiritual battle that doesn't concern us because it's going on in the firmament. The angels are on their own and we're on our own just doesn't seem to fit for me.
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