Appositives appear so only to those who have a place to posit such a proposition - you're welcome.
I know this sounds really out there, but I can't find the thread it was meant for. I've checked my own "recent messages" here at gs and done a similar check on another email list that I was posting on at the time.
Either it's a total fabrication that seemed more real to me at the time than reality or...
Wait, wait, here it is, fresh off the neural net - possibly questionable, but it's the best I have at the moment. I just got back from vacation & have over 200 messages that I've moved into my "Temporary" folder. Many of them come from an email list where I believe the homosexual discussion was a subthread to another discussion about abusive leadership - hence my inability to find it.
Why did I post it here? Did I mention the dentist? Too many pain pills? Mixed with too much alcohol? Jet lag?
If I come across it - it was probably on the Onelist or Oddlist or whatever it is called these days; it's an exway email list - in the dark files of my Temp folder, or someone brings it up againi, I'll let you know.
A few more quotes from the same article of C*r*s G*a*lich's.
"The tender setting of the household of God provides the optimum environment for spiritual nurture and growth. From a position of unity, strength, and loving support provided by the household, we function most effectively in reaching out to others."
"Today anyone who believes and gets born again can receive into manifestation God's gift of holy spirit. The power from on high is our basis for living abundantly, for functioning dynamically in the household, and for reaching out to others."
(Regarding Acts 9:20-22)
"Paul was so blessed and built up by the love of God shown in the household that he immediately began to share the fundamental truths of God's Word with others. ... Then Paul moved on from Damascus to Jerusalem and helped the household with the outreach of the ministry there as well."
He follows past examples of forcing the word household as a part of the first century church. As well, through out the article he states what they have in Christ yet throws in conditions of placement.
quote: Perhaps M&A was their version of solitary confinement in a darkened room!
Trefor -- you have that one correct. I always saw twi "leadership" as wardens. The higher up they got, the more power they had over you and I, and the "underling wardens" merely followed orders, after reporting on us. -->
LCM's closing statement from the WAP class. Which as we know is still being taught live by the wc, or was not long ago when I left twi.
You make up your mind that God in Christ in you is sufficient and complete, that as you stand in this household of God, as you continue steadfastly in the doctrine, fellowship, breaking of bread, and prayers that you need not falter or waver, that your believing fail not, that you can stand upright, that you can stand strong and continue in this family faith-this household of God-and allow the way of abundance and power to bring itself into manifestation in your life.
Back on WayDale I mentioned the household teachings were the beginning of the end for me in *the household*. One of the final *nails in the coffin* was when a WC FC I had mentioned how LCM *shared at a lunch* that all scripture interpretation must be done in light of the household.......... -->
In LCM's 1998 Advanced Class he quoted scripture with an explanation like "context in the household". Following are some I noted on quick glance:
Rom 12:13-20
"given to hospitality" context in the household of God.
"bless them which persecute you" the saints not unbelievers...being faithful in the household doesn't necessarily mean perfectly. It's up to the health of the household body to carry the weakness until that person gets back in alignment and harmony.
"persecute" the immaturity of some in the household can be irritating or grating, so you have to have long-suffering. That doesn't mean you're not to reprove and correct if it's something that's off the Word, but you do it with love for God and the believing that the person will respond.
"rejoice..weep" covers the whole range of emotions and attitude. No matter what goes on as affecting our lives from rejoicing or weeping, we stay put in the household.
"live peaceably with all men" in the household. You do your utmost according to the gift that's in us, according to the Word of God that's available to us.
"give place unto wrath" it means to pursue that framework of confrontation. It's to allow the household to take care of its business.
"enemy" a temporary enemy, someone out of alignment and harmony in the household.
Rom 13:1-2
"every soul" that's the household still.
"powers (exousia)" here it's used in terms of the household. The ministers-those ruling ministers of apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, and teachers-the diakonos of the lord, the ministers of Jesus Christ, carry the exercised privileges in oversight.
"no power but of God" that's in the household, this functioning, strong household. The only ones that are "of God" are the ones God appointed.
Rom 13:10-14
"neighbour" household believer.
"cast off the works of darkness" individually and collectively in the household, in the context of subjecting ourselves to the higher authorities in the Church.
Eph 4:4-5
"one body" the body is built on edification; being built up, not allowing evil to run rampant, tearing things down...that tells me there is one functioning body, one functioning household.
Acts 14:3
"in the Lord" household.
Acts 14:20-23
"disciples" the faithful household, the only ones you can trust when you really have a need.
quote:"disciples" the faithful household, the only ones you can trust when you really have a need.
I know of too many examples of where this has not been true. Too many people have been told to ask their "earthly non-ministry" family members for help when they've really needed someone to depend on.
The "household" doctrine of TWI was pounded into our brains. Not only in classes, but in every teaching and every magazine article. No wonder so many people are afraid of leaving. These teachings have not stopped and as a last resort they tell people they should stand with the ministry that taught them the Word. Like we owe them something.
If they in fact were the "faithful household" that one could depend upon it would not be conditional. Jesus Christ was faithful and desired to take care of our needs, which he did an awesome job of providing by way of the new birth. Yet those 'few' that would call themselves the "faithful household" will turn you away in a heartbeat once you leave the ministry. I can count on one hand the number that didn't in my life.
The greatest example of a disciple that could be trusted with my needs I foolishly pushed out of my life this weekend. Yet I wonder did those who pushed me out of theirs when I left twi feel anything even remotely close to the pain I now hold. Sadly I suspect not, they are too blinded in that household of theirs. :(-->
Can I play more? Yes, definitely. That is why I'm here. I've never been "totally" on vacation - without a summer job - and yet had my plate so full.
Hey, I just got back from Glacier Nat'l Park (Northern Montana) & Waterton Nat'l Park (Canada). It was awesome - top of the Rockies, hiking, horseback riding, white water rafting (well, the water wasn't so white, but it was okay for a beginner), buffalo, long-horn sheep, mountain goats, deer, elk, bears, wolf, hawks (all very up close - well, the elk, long-horn sheep, & mountain goats were not too close), sunshine, rain, fog, hail, snow (all within an hour), mountains, mountains, mountains, lakes (right outside my door), great people, great beer, great food, great wife, great God.
No vision quest, but visions nonetheless [deep breath].
What you are witnessing are the symptoms of elevation disease! This affects many low-lander tourists that venture to high into high altitude lodges and guest ranches at to fast a rate. It is also commonly known as an altitude drunk or oxygen depravation. The low-landers brain becomes oxygen starved in the much thinner air at high altitudes, especially those altitudes common to the Montana-Canadian border. :D-->
Don’t worry, Tom will return to his normal self (whatever that is) within a few days as his brain starts getting its normal supply of oxygen back.
I was wandering where Tom was...........................now I know!!!!!!
Oh, Thomas Heller, one of my favorite places on earth!!! Lucky you & family!!! Can you post pix sometime? Like St. Mary's Lake or something? Or those pink granite mountains?
I dont know, Watered - I loaded up some photos online, so I could copy them here, but they took so long to load here, & were too tiny to be worth the effort. I deleted the post - sorry.
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Tom
Appositives appear so only to those who have a place to posit such a proposition - you're welcome.
I know this sounds really out there, but I can't find the thread it was meant for. I've checked my own "recent messages" here at gs and done a similar check on another email list that I was posting on at the time.
Either it's a total fabrication that seemed more real to me at the time than reality or...
Wait, wait, here it is, fresh off the neural net - possibly questionable, but it's the best I have at the moment. I just got back from vacation & have over 200 messages that I've moved into my "Temporary" folder. Many of them come from an email list where I believe the homosexual discussion was a subthread to another discussion about abusive leadership - hence my inability to find it.
Why did I post it here? Did I mention the dentist? Too many pain pills? Mixed with too much alcohol? Jet lag?
If I come across it - it was probably on the Onelist or Oddlist or whatever it is called these days; it's an exway email list - in the dark files of my Temp folder, or someone brings it up againi, I'll let you know.
Tom
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houseisarockin
A few more quotes from the same article of C*r*s G*a*lich's.
"The tender setting of the household of God provides the optimum environment for spiritual nurture and growth. From a position of unity, strength, and loving support provided by the household, we function most effectively in reaching out to others."
"Today anyone who believes and gets born again can receive into manifestation God's gift of holy spirit. The power from on high is our basis for living abundantly, for functioning dynamically in the household, and for reaching out to others."
(Regarding Acts 9:20-22)
"Paul was so blessed and built up by the love of God shown in the household that he immediately began to share the fundamental truths of God's Word with others. ... Then Paul moved on from Damascus to Jerusalem and helped the household with the outreach of the ministry there as well."
He follows past examples of forcing the word household as a part of the first century church. As well, through out the article he states what they have in Christ yet throws in conditions of placement.
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Oakspear
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dmiller
Trefor -- you have that one correct. I always saw twi "leadership" as wardens. The higher up they got, the more power they had over you and I, and the "underling wardens" merely followed orders, after reporting on us.
-->
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houseisarockin
For what it may be worth regarding this topic.
LCM's closing statement from the WAP class. Which as we know is still being taught live by the wc, or was not long ago when I left twi.
You make up your mind that God in Christ in you is sufficient and complete, that as you stand in this household of God, as you continue steadfastly in the doctrine, fellowship, breaking of bread, and prayers that you need not falter or waver, that your believing fail not, that you can stand upright, that you can stand strong and continue in this family faith-this household of God-and allow the way of abundance and power to bring itself into manifestation in your life.
quote copyright twi 1995
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Grizzy
Back on WayDale I mentioned the household teachings were the beginning of the end for me in *the household*. One of the final *nails in the coffin* was when a WC FC I had mentioned how LCM *shared at a lunch* that all scripture interpretation must be done in light of the household..........
-->
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houseisarockin
In LCM's 1998 Advanced Class he quoted scripture with an explanation like "context in the household". Following are some I noted on quick glance:
Rom 12:13-20
"given to hospitality" context in the household of God.
"bless them which persecute you" the saints not unbelievers...being faithful in the household doesn't necessarily mean perfectly. It's up to the health of the household body to carry the weakness until that person gets back in alignment and harmony.
"persecute" the immaturity of some in the household can be irritating or grating, so you have to have long-suffering. That doesn't mean you're not to reprove and correct if it's something that's off the Word, but you do it with love for God and the believing that the person will respond.
"rejoice..weep" covers the whole range of emotions and attitude. No matter what goes on as affecting our lives from rejoicing or weeping, we stay put in the household.
"live peaceably with all men" in the household. You do your utmost according to the gift that's in us, according to the Word of God that's available to us.
"give place unto wrath" it means to pursue that framework of confrontation. It's to allow the household to take care of its business.
"enemy" a temporary enemy, someone out of alignment and harmony in the household.
Rom 13:1-2
"every soul" that's the household still.
"powers (exousia)" here it's used in terms of the household. The ministers-those ruling ministers of apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, and teachers-the diakonos of the lord, the ministers of Jesus Christ, carry the exercised privileges in oversight.
"no power but of God" that's in the household, this functioning, strong household. The only ones that are "of God" are the ones God appointed.
Rom 13:10-14
"neighbour" household believer.
"cast off the works of darkness" individually and collectively in the household, in the context of subjecting ourselves to the higher authorities in the Church.
Eph 4:4-5
"one body" the body is built on edification; being built up, not allowing evil to run rampant, tearing things down...that tells me there is one functioning body, one functioning household.
Acts 14:3
"in the Lord" household.
Acts 14:20-23
"disciples" the faithful household, the only ones you can trust when you really have a need.
"faith" family faith, stay put in the household.
quotes copyright twi 1998
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WaywardWayfer
I know of too many examples of where this has not been true. Too many people have been told to ask their "earthly non-ministry" family members for help when they've really needed someone to depend on.
The "household" doctrine of TWI was pounded into our brains. Not only in classes, but in every teaching and every magazine article. No wonder so many people are afraid of leaving. These teachings have not stopped and as a last resort they tell people they should stand with the ministry that taught them the Word. Like we owe them something.
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houseisarockin
WaywardWayfer, how true!
If they in fact were the "faithful household" that one could depend upon it would not be conditional. Jesus Christ was faithful and desired to take care of our needs, which he did an awesome job of providing by way of the new birth. Yet those 'few' that would call themselves the "faithful household" will turn you away in a heartbeat once you leave the ministry. I can count on one hand the number that didn't in my life.
The greatest example of a disciple that could be trusted with my needs I foolishly pushed out of my life this weekend. Yet I wonder did those who pushed me out of theirs when I left twi feel anything even remotely close to the pain I now hold. Sadly I suspect not, they are too blinded in that household of theirs.
:(-->
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Tom
More is the pity that all the wonderful truths that TWI equated with its perverse "household" teaching like:
"given to hospitality"
"bless them which persecute you"
"live peaceably with all men"
"in the Lord"
and so many more ARE LOST to the "Way" follower.
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excathedra
i've missed you, litwin. summertime. can you "play" more now ?
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Tom
Absolutely - what do you have in mind
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Tom
Just kidding - good to "see" you again also.
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Tom
Can I play more? Yes, definitely. That is why I'm here. I've never been "totally" on vacation - without a summer job - and yet had my plate so full.
Hey, I just got back from Glacier Nat'l Park (Northern Montana) & Waterton Nat'l Park (Canada). It was awesome - top of the Rockies, hiking, horseback riding, white water rafting (well, the water wasn't so white, but it was okay for a beginner), buffalo, long-horn sheep, mountain goats, deer, elk, bears, wolf, hawks (all very up close - well, the elk, long-horn sheep, & mountain goats were not too close), sunshine, rain, fog, hail, snow (all within an hour), mountains, mountains, mountains, lakes (right outside my door), great people, great beer, great food, great wife, great God.
No vision quest, but visions nonetheless [deep breath].
Hi
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Grizzy
Ladies and Gentlemen;
What you are witnessing are the symptoms of elevation disease! This affects many low-lander tourists that venture to high into high altitude lodges and guest ranches at to fast a rate. It is also commonly known as an altitude drunk or oxygen depravation. The low-landers brain becomes oxygen starved in the much thinner air at high altitudes, especially those altitudes common to the Montana-Canadian border.
:D-->
Don’t worry, Tom will return to his normal self (whatever that is) within a few days as his brain starts getting its normal supply of oxygen back.
I was wandering where Tom was...........................now I know!!!!!!
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Watered Garden
Oh, Thomas Heller, one of my favorite places on earth!!! Lucky you & family!!! Can you post pix sometime? Like St. Mary's Lake or something? Or those pink granite mountains?
OOOO, now I want to pack up and head West!!!
WG
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Tom
Griz,
I will not return to normal. I don't have to ever be the same again. The Hawk told me so.
Watered,
Hmm, pix. I've never posted pictures here - I suppose it is fairly easy. Isn't there someplace around here to try stuff like that out?
Soon,
Tom
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Tom
I dont know, Watered - I loaded up some photos online, so I could copy them here, but they took so long to load here, & were too tiny to be worth the effort. I deleted the post - sorry.
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