I think the phrase "In the Lord" is amazing in the way it is used in the Word. It is definitely different from "In Christ," and well worth understanding. A simple run through in a concordance astounded me with the significance associated with the phrase years ago.
The problem came in when VPW started associating the TWI household with those who are designated as in the Lord in the Word. In the Lord people come from all parts of the family, so in the equating of TWI household with those who are in the Lord, not only did the TWI household morph into a non-existent, bizarre thing, but the truths concerning in the Lord were lost; thereby, cutting TWI off from musch of the help that comes to households in the family from those who are in the Lord.
Lcm states "God loves all His children, but only His affectionate children are the ones He can protect"
Whew!...chilling, mind numbing...
When I grew up with my siblings, some of us were "affectionate" and some of us were not. My "earthly father" protected us all equally. I seem to recall Veepee ranting out something about "my earthly father did a better job than that..."
This is the "not so subtle" doctrine that deviates from a powerful, loving, and able God, extending His mercy and grace...and replaces Him with a god that is limited in both ability and unconditional care. Martindale's god is not ABLE to protect him. He's willing, mind you, just not ABLE...so where does this "ABLE-NESS" reside? Apparently, the ability to be protected, resides within the human mind!...lcm calls it being "affectionate"...and of course, a closer examination of HOW to be "affectionate" (or how to activate the "ability to be protected") is to give twi your money and allow them to control your life...or as others might say...to be a "functioning member of the household".
It seems that lcm pulled the old bait and switch...He advertises a loving God that is ready to pour His adundance on you, and then delivers a mean spirited, controlling hierarchy of manipulating extortionists, who bend you over.
All of this microscopically exquisite defining of the "household" is simply utilized to make TWI feel set apart and special. From what very little I've read, it's a pretty common cult brainwashing technique. Outside the household means outside the small, exclusive, specially blessed-by-God (God being the cult hierarchy or leader) group. You can't function outside the household. I distinctly remember the young squirt who was our socalled MOG stating that "It is impossible to exist outside the Household of Faith. If you leave this household, the spirit within you will die, and shortly thereafter your physical body will die also, because it is impossible to exist outside the household of faith."
I'm still standin' D.M****r. Happier, healthier, and a better relationship with my heavenly Father than I ever had under your dictatorship, you little f**t! I don't have to try to please perfect little TWI folks any more. I please my Lord Who loves me!
"But God commendeth [favorably introduced]his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us."
Having favorably introduced his love for as a God who loves sinners to the extent of sending his son to die for us, is God now going to change the nature of his love?
The whole "Household vs. Family" teaching is one that made my skin crawl from the first time I heard it.
It was never really strongly emphasized until LCM took over, eliminating songs like "Family of God" or any other song or teaching that referred to God's people as the "family".
I knew something had to be wrong. So I did a very, very simple word study and found that it is wrong! IMO, their teaching is nothing more than private interpretation according to usage in TWI - in other words, whatever makes them look like they have the only truth!
The fact is that a household can be any group of people living under the same roof. A mom, a dad, a child, a servant, a wierd uncle, a guest, a freeloader, the dog, the cat, etc. Some are related by blood, others aren't. Some have rights to the car keys, the bank account, the food in the fridge - others don't. Those people need permission to participate or share the things that the family has because they're related by blood!
Think of the prodigal son - it's a great example of the difference between the household and family.
The son takes his inheritance - part of his right as a family member - and goes and ....es it away. He ends up on Skid Row hanging out with the pigs. He's miserable. He decides that he'd be better off if he goes and asks his dad to take him back as a servant because at least he'd be under his dad's roof and be fed and cared for in that household. He distinguishes the difference between household and family:
Luke 15:17 - 19: And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger!
I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,
And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants.
We all know the story - his dad saw him coming - told the brother to have a big party because his son - a member of his family was coming back! He wasn't a servant - someone merely living under his roof - in his household. He was related by blood - therefore had the rights and privileges that a blood relative has. He hadn't been living there as a "functioning part of the household". He hadn't been contributing. He'd been off hangin' with the hogs. BUT HE WAS STILL IN HIS DAD'S FAMILY! And nothing can change that.
So being in a household isn't really anything all that great. When we have company staying with us, they're in our household. I'm not going to give them my credit card and tell them to go shopping. They'd probably be a bit uncomfortable raiding my fridge! But they're here - under my roof - in my air space. So what? They may leave and I'll never see them again. But my kids? Hey - they can have anything they want (within reason). If they leave and I never see them again (God forbid) - they'll always be my kids - my flesh and blood - my FAMILY. They don't have to be under my roof - they're still mine (whether they like it or not!).
That teaching is BS. I believe it was designed to make little TWI feel more important, superior to other Christians who were merely in "the family". It's an ego trip - being in a small group of the elite "household" is much better... there are so few of us who are qualified to be here, we're sooooooo spay-shull! What bunk.
I'd rather be a part of a big, diverse family with loads of brothers and sisters than an itty bitty, snobby, isolated household that restricts my freedom to believe and thrive. Who wouldn't?
quote: I'm still standin' D.M****r. Happier, healthier, and a better relationship with my heavenly Father than I ever had under your dictatorship, you little f**t!
WG - There's another D.M****r out there?
I never led anything in "da mini-stry", so I know that couldn't have been directed at me. Still -- you had me wunderin! ;)-->
Current as I can offer regarding their words on household:
STS highlight Jan 18 04...D*n L*max
"It's the power of God's prevailing Word that goes to work for us day by day in our lives as we live the greatness of this Word in the household. We see the power of God's Word, and we receive the wholeness that the Word makes available. As we continue in the fellowship of the household, we grow in God's Word and in God's power. That's power in the gospel."
Magazine article May/June 04...C*r*s G*a*lich
"In our Administration of Grace each individual in the household is responsible to do his part to plant and water. Then God, the originator and Sustainer of all life, gives the increase in the outreach of His Word. Each faithful disciple working in harmony with God and with one another in the household is recognized and rewarded for his efforts."
How sad that they think they are prepared for everything, yet miss the most important of all, that being beyond their bondage of darkness there is light.
I'm not sure as to what point the above quote is trying to make regarding household v family.
There is a difference between the state of gayness and acts which some people may do in certain situations where they are denied access to what they would consider their natural inclinations.
But a prison is an institution and for many TWI was more of a prison than either household or family.
Hope R...that was the best explanation I've heard yet concerning twi's household verses family bs.
Good Point Trefor...twi institutionilized mental bondage. What originally attracted me to twi was their "seeming" willingness to continue research and change if they were wrong about something. Supposedly they were open to imput from any and all "saints" concerning the doctrine of the bible...yeah right.
It soon became apparent that the only thing bigger than their egos, was the institution of a rigid religious system that they were building. Whether you considered yourself in the household (aren't I cool)...or just a member of the family (I guess I'm just a putz), you were still part of and assimilated into the institution of mental bondage.
Twi's sharp line of distinction between "household" and "family"
(which I first heard from "the Way Tree" seminar taught by J. Townsend) was always among those doctrines which caused me to go, "huh?"
Especially when one starts inquiring as to what particular Greek word or words lay behind the word "family" -as opposed to "household".
with the KJV, it's patria (strongs # 3965) -
translated only once as "family" in Eph.3:15 - and in 2 other places as "lineage" and "kindreds".
"household" is of course translated from the "oik-" Greek words (e.g., Strongs # 3609, and numerous others I'm too lazy to list here at the moment).
But what contrasting Greek words would twi have us assign for "family" to distinguish from "household"?
There really are none.
At the risk of overstatement for the sake of brevity here, "family" and "household" are essentially synonyms. Some translators use "family" in place of "household" and vice-versa when handling the "oik-" words, and I think rightly so.
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Tom
I think the phrase "In the Lord" is amazing in the way it is used in the Word. It is definitely different from "In Christ," and well worth understanding. A simple run through in a concordance astounded me with the significance associated with the phrase years ago.
The problem came in when VPW started associating the TWI household with those who are designated as in the Lord in the Word. In the Lord people come from all parts of the family, so in the equating of TWI household with those who are in the Lord, not only did the TWI household morph into a non-existent, bizarre thing, but the truths concerning in the Lord were lost; thereby, cutting TWI off from musch of the help that comes to households in the family from those who are in the Lord.
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GrouchoMarxJr
Waywardwayfer...interesting stuff...
Lcm states "God loves all His children, but only His affectionate children are the ones He can protect"
Whew!...chilling, mind numbing...
When I grew up with my siblings, some of us were "affectionate" and some of us were not. My "earthly father" protected us all equally. I seem to recall Veepee ranting out something about "my earthly father did a better job than that..."
This is the "not so subtle" doctrine that deviates from a powerful, loving, and able God, extending His mercy and grace...and replaces Him with a god that is limited in both ability and unconditional care. Martindale's god is not ABLE to protect him. He's willing, mind you, just not ABLE...so where does this "ABLE-NESS" reside? Apparently, the ability to be protected, resides within the human mind!...lcm calls it being "affectionate"...and of course, a closer examination of HOW to be "affectionate" (or how to activate the "ability to be protected") is to give twi your money and allow them to control your life...or as others might say...to be a "functioning member of the household".
It seems that lcm pulled the old bait and switch...He advertises a loving God that is ready to pour His adundance on you, and then delivers a mean spirited, controlling hierarchy of manipulating extortionists, who bend you over.
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Watered Garden
All of this microscopically exquisite defining of the "household" is simply utilized to make TWI feel set apart and special. From what very little I've read, it's a pretty common cult brainwashing technique. Outside the household means outside the small, exclusive, specially blessed-by-God (God being the cult hierarchy or leader) group. You can't function outside the household. I distinctly remember the young squirt who was our socalled MOG stating that "It is impossible to exist outside the Household of Faith. If you leave this household, the spirit within you will die, and shortly thereafter your physical body will die also, because it is impossible to exist outside the household of faith."
I'm still standin' D.M****r. Happier, healthier, and a better relationship with my heavenly Father than I ever had under your dictatorship, you little f**t! I don't have to try to please perfect little TWI folks any more. I please my Lord Who loves me!
So there!
:)-->
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Tom
Right, Unc, about the bait & switch.
"But God commendeth [favorably introduced]his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us."
Having favorably introduced his love for as a God who loves sinners to the extent of sending his son to die for us, is God now going to change the nature of his love?
Nah
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Hope R.
The whole "Household vs. Family" teaching is one that made my skin crawl from the first time I heard it.
It was never really strongly emphasized until LCM took over, eliminating songs like "Family of God" or any other song or teaching that referred to God's people as the "family".
I knew something had to be wrong. So I did a very, very simple word study and found that it is wrong! IMO, their teaching is nothing more than private interpretation according to usage in TWI - in other words, whatever makes them look like they have the only truth!
The fact is that a household can be any group of people living under the same roof. A mom, a dad, a child, a servant, a wierd uncle, a guest, a freeloader, the dog, the cat, etc. Some are related by blood, others aren't. Some have rights to the car keys, the bank account, the food in the fridge - others don't. Those people need permission to participate or share the things that the family has because they're related by blood!
Think of the prodigal son - it's a great example of the difference between the household and family.
The son takes his inheritance - part of his right as a family member - and goes and ....es it away. He ends up on Skid Row hanging out with the pigs. He's miserable. He decides that he'd be better off if he goes and asks his dad to take him back as a servant because at least he'd be under his dad's roof and be fed and cared for in that household. He distinguishes the difference between household and family:
Luke 15:17 - 19: And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger!
I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,
And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants.
We all know the story - his dad saw him coming - told the brother to have a big party because his son - a member of his family was coming back! He wasn't a servant - someone merely living under his roof - in his household. He was related by blood - therefore had the rights and privileges that a blood relative has. He hadn't been living there as a "functioning part of the household". He hadn't been contributing. He'd been off hangin' with the hogs. BUT HE WAS STILL IN HIS DAD'S FAMILY! And nothing can change that.
So being in a household isn't really anything all that great. When we have company staying with us, they're in our household. I'm not going to give them my credit card and tell them to go shopping. They'd probably be a bit uncomfortable raiding my fridge! But they're here - under my roof - in my air space. So what? They may leave and I'll never see them again. But my kids? Hey - they can have anything they want (within reason). If they leave and I never see them again (God forbid) - they'll always be my kids - my flesh and blood - my FAMILY. They don't have to be under my roof - they're still mine (whether they like it or not!).
That teaching is BS. I believe it was designed to make little TWI feel more important, superior to other Christians who were merely in "the family". It's an ego trip - being in a small group of the elite "household" is much better... there are so few of us who are qualified to be here, we're sooooooo spay-shull! What bunk.
I'd rather be a part of a big, diverse family with loads of brothers and sisters than an itty bitty, snobby, isolated household that restricts my freedom to believe and thrive. Who wouldn't?
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Trefor Heywood
One thing that always made me think:
In the Roman world a "Household" could include slaves who were there to serve their masters.
A family didn't.
TWI likes having their slaves and manages to delude them into thinking that they are actually something better than family.
I for one would rather be in the family rather than a slave in the "household."
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ex10
Yeah, well, once again the great biblical scholars of TWI got it backwards.
-->
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dmiller
All this makes me want to hum a few bars of ...................
"I'm so glad, I'm a part, of the family of God .........
:D-->
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dmiller
WG - There's another D.M****r out there?
I never led anything in "da mini-stry", so I know that couldn't have been directed at me. Still -- you had me wunderin!
;)-->
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socks
The teaching is best understood as a Steven Wright joke. Speak an octave lower, in a deep monotone voice and mumble this:
"In the Way they told me the Household was where I wanted to be".
"I couldn't buy a house".
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houseisarockin
Current as I can offer regarding their words on household:
STS highlight Jan 18 04...D*n L*max
"It's the power of God's prevailing Word that goes to work for us day by day in our lives as we live the greatness of this Word in the household. We see the power of God's Word, and we receive the wholeness that the Word makes available. As we continue in the fellowship of the household, we grow in God's Word and in God's power. That's power in the gospel."
Magazine article May/June 04...C*r*s G*a*lich
"In our Administration of Grace each individual in the household is responsible to do his part to plant and water. Then God, the originator and Sustainer of all life, gives the increase in the outreach of His Word. Each faithful disciple working in harmony with God and with one another in the household is recognized and rewarded for his efforts."
How sad that they think they are prepared for everything, yet miss the most important of all, that being beyond their bondage of darkness there is light.
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Tom
People go into prison straight and come out homosexual. Doesn't that say something about choice?
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dmiller
Stephen Wright might also say -----------
"Abundant sharing"
"When am I getting my share of the Abundance?"
"If it's got to be, it's up to me"
"There is no "B" in me.
"Just sign the green card"
"Hmm, I'm an illegal, I have no green card.
"M&A?"
"Meat and apricots? What kind of pizza is that?"
"Cop-out"
"Yea - that's what I told him, but he wouldn't listen."
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socks
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frank123lol
Hi all,In response to Ch** Gra**ml**c article
What an alleged liar He personally does not
live and apply any of what he says.
the person is critical to no end even his wife
allegedly covers for him
Okay,God is the originator of life But.Who is our example? Jesus Christ of course Point a finger at someone else get the beam out of your
eye first
My point is God gives freely It is grace we do
not match God work to work remember Ch**s
It aint by our works but by grace
We build up not tear down one another
We plant and water yes according to what God
decides to increase not some spiritaulll leader
of some little cult
enough venting...
See the way rag teachings ect allegedly all sound great but under the scrutiny of heart
application intent it is bogus.
Since being out of the Twi everthing I was taught has been reexamined in light of I do
not have anything to gain by sharing the word,
giving(yeah I said giving cause if it aint mine
then then where the hell did it come from ,
Hmmmm seeem I have a real job not just working for a cult) helping people cause I want to
not cause we need to recriut someone
As a last point.Hey innnies want to see how much freedom you have? Just say no once.
Later all
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Watered Garden
dmiller, you are one of a kind! Very special and wonderful. This fool's last name is different from yours. Trust me. I wasn't talkin' bout you!
:)-->
WG
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outandabout
That "household" thing is just one more trademark of a cult. "We are the special ones. We are where you must remain or it will be bad."
cult cult cult
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Shellon
...People go into prison straight and come out homosexual. Doesn't that say something about choice?
============================================
oh my gawd, ROFL
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Trefor Heywood
I'm not sure as to what point the above quote is trying to make regarding household v family.
There is a difference between the state of gayness and acts which some people may do in certain situations where they are denied access to what they would consider their natural inclinations.
But a prison is an institution and for many TWI was more of a prison than either household or family.
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GrouchoMarxJr
Hope R...that was the best explanation I've heard yet concerning twi's household verses family bs.
Good Point Trefor...twi institutionilized mental bondage. What originally attracted me to twi was their "seeming" willingness to continue research and change if they were wrong about something. Supposedly they were open to imput from any and all "saints" concerning the doctrine of the bible...yeah right.
It soon became apparent that the only thing bigger than their egos, was the institution of a rigid religious system that they were building. Whether you considered yourself in the household (aren't I cool)...or just a member of the family (I guess I'm just a putz), you were still part of and assimilated into the institution of mental bondage.
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Trefor Heywood
Prisons operate by limiting freedom and the creation of a set of rules against which rewards and punishments are determined.
And what a rulebook TWI ended up creating!
Perhaps M&A was their version of solitary confinement in a darkened room!
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Tom
RE: "People go into prison straight and come out homosexual. Doesn't that say something about choice?"
Hmm, up too late? One too many? Jet lag?
Wrong thread! Sorry.
Damn, wrong restaurant.
Thanks for your input, Trefor. Nice, the way you addressed my post and applied your answer to this thread at the same time.
Tom
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TheInvisibleDan
Twi's sharp line of distinction between "household" and "family"
(which I first heard from "the Way Tree" seminar taught by J. Townsend) was always among those doctrines which caused me to go, "huh?"
Especially when one starts inquiring as to what particular Greek word or words lay behind the word "family" -as opposed to "household".
with the KJV, it's patria (strongs # 3965) -
translated only once as "family" in Eph.3:15 - and in 2 other places as "lineage" and "kindreds".
"household" is of course translated from the "oik-" Greek words (e.g., Strongs # 3609, and numerous others I'm too lazy to list here at the moment).
But what contrasting Greek words would twi have us assign for "family" to distinguish from "household"?
There really are none.
At the risk of overstatement for the sake of brevity here, "family" and "household" are essentially synonyms. Some translators use "family" in place of "household" and vice-versa when handling the "oik-" words, and I think rightly so.
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Tom
I wish you could have seen it in the originals. Walter, find a text; it's got to be there.
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