I was told once that ''Born to Run'' encouraged suicide because of the lyric ''it's a death trap, a suicide rap we gotta get out while we're young...'' As you can see...hasn't stopped me from listening to ''the Boss'' ;)-->
A family member was told to burn all of her Stevie Nicks records because her production company is called ''Welsh Witch''. Oh brother! -->
Don't think I'm gonna lose any crowns for singin' ''Darlington County'' in the shower...might scare the neighbors though! ;)--> :P-->
It's been almost thirty years, but I'm still ....ed that I got rid of:
a collection of "Jazz Crusaders" albums
several "Leadbelly" albums (a "Folkways" collection)
several "Wilson Pickett" albums
several assorted and sundry jazz albums including: Jean-luc Ponty, Stephan Grepelli, Zoot Sims, Ray Brown, Horace Silver, Mose Allison, Dexter Gordon, Ray Charles, The Inkspots, Brian Auger and the Oblivion Express (yeah, they were soooo devilish), Laura Nyro, and on and on... gawddam I threw away some great stuff!
I've managed to replace some of it, but a lot of it was pretty hard to locate to begin with.
My dearly beloved was a professional musician when he got involved with the cult.... He has always felt like he got sidetracked in a bad way by being involved, and gave up his professional and academic aspirations. This summer, he is turning 50, as are all his old comrades in music, and they are actually playing a "reunion concert" in his home town.
I'm hoping and praying that somehow he can come full circle and resolve his regrets about choosing another path. :)--> Closure on the cult thing would be a very good. George, I love your contribution here at the cafe, but, no offense, my beloved is not meant to be a crudmugeon?? (sp). But would do better as someone who can move on despite past disappointments. ;)--> Any secrets to success you (or anyone) can offer?
When I entered twi, I was taken "aside" and taught all about how the debbil had taken over the music industry...no more Grateful Dead, or Moody Blues, forget the Beatles, and you damn well better burn those Rolling Stone albums! Sympathy for the devil indeed!
Of course, all this debbil music was to be replaced with the Nazi music of wierwille's wayproductions...the inferior sound systems, the inferior song writing, composing and performing...all tempered by wierwille's "expertise" in understanding the spirituality of it all...and then censoring the little bit of talent and originality that dared rear it's head...how plastic, how phoney.
Yeah, it still pi$$es me off that I let those creeps talk me into their little cornfield reality...
I believe my mother came back from an Advanced Class in Gunnison talking about how VPW had explained to them how different types of music could have a devilish influence. Classical promotes homosexuality and rock music promotes Marxism. I'm just making those up...I don't remember the exact examples, but it was taught. Perhaps that is what you were talking about.
Although, many years later at a Word in Business conference LCM told us art freaks that basically all music could be used in a devilishly or godly way. He gave the example of how he could see heavy metal productions as long as it glorified god. He just felt that the general population of believers were not ready for that or may not like it.
It was a few years later when that insane song, "Wash My Feet in the Blood of the Wicked" came out, I believe at an Adv. Class Special. I think that was twi's attempt at "heavy metal". That is pretty funny. It really was lame.
The closest thing they ever came to metal was around 85 or 86 @ the Rock. I don't remember the name of the band but Mike and Vic were two of the guys in it. They were Junior Corps brothers of ours. That was hilarious watching them bang their heads with all that hair. My brother was in the audiance doing the same. The people behind him were getting ....ed at him because he was whipping them with his hair. lol
No offense taken at all. (Don't tell anybody, but I'm not nearly the crank I pretend to be some of the time)
I think any normal person is going to have regrets once they realize what a waste of life their tenure in WayWorld was. The trick is not to let it taint the rest of your life. It may be small comfort, but for me, seeing how incredibly privileged the boomer generation in the U.S. is, has helped me put my "wasted youth" in a little better perspective.
I mean, has any generation, in any country, at any point in history, had as much available to them as American Boomers? I don't think so. We've been incredibly coddled and catered to since we've first drawn breath.
The final "kicker" for me was when I was in Cambodia a few months back. The OVERWHELMING physical need of virtually everyone in the country made quite an impression on me.
Here's a people who spend their entire existence living like their ancestors did 5,000 years ago. They grow rice in their back yard, fish in their front yard, eat what they procure each day, and do it again tomorrow. They never see a doctor, never go to "town", never hear a radio or see a television. Seldom (or never?) go to school. Certainly can never attend a university. They live in a grass hut with no windows, floor, door, hell some of them don't even have all four walls!
These are people who have it tough. We have no complaint. One of the last people I saw in Phnom Penh was a land mine victim, begging at the market.
He had no right arm or right leg and when I approached him he pulled the towel from his head (a "schtick" I'm sure he employs regularly) to reveal the fact that he was also missing half of his face (with his right eye dangling down on what should have been his cheek). It appeared as though he'd never had any medical attention for his wounds at all. I was absolutely stunned at his overwhelming poor lot in life, and I vowed right then and there to NEVER AGAIN feel sorry for myself for any pathetic little problem I may have.
Yeah, I know it's corny, but how the hell can my misadventure with the Ohio Cornfield Cult begin to compare to those that have REALLY suffered a bad turn of events?
So, my advice to your better half? Perk up! Nobody gets outa here alive anyway. Might as well make the most of what we've got left.
O.K., it's not eloquent, but whaddaya want fer nuthin'?
I can't say I was ever told outright not to play or listen to certain things but there was an implication that since I was a musician that I should use those talents towards "the furthance of the word". Yikes!
I was in a semi-punk band in high school and then in college I sold my electric toys for money to go to the WinB covnference. Still regret that. So I took my acoustic to the college open mic nights and sung my fustrations out there. I was pressured repeatedly to use my ability in fellowship and eventually I did. it was also in part because the older I got and the more involved I got the more I thought that I should be focusing this talent toward a "godly" use.
Now there are some great non-twi christian ska/punk/rock bands out there that are excellent musically and lyrically, but now I'm not especially interested in the music. Although, I do tune in, on occasion, to those radios stations just to see what is out there.
After I left school, which was my decision (but only after a couple of years of the serious demonization of debt), I rarely played in public and still don't. I long for it now. There is a freedom in playing your own music. I just have a sort of artist's block when it comes to music and writing. I still haven't found a way to put my anger and fustration and confusion regarding my involvement in twi and religious or philosophical ideas into music and lyrics. Perhaps because my parents are still in. I don't know.
In the visual arts catigory, I have no problem with ideas there. I have too many ideas. I just have a problem with the time and/or motivation to do most of it. Still I would love to get into a band and rock out or swing out or funk it up.
sorry if I still didn't contribute to the topic of this thread.
"Gave up" is probably a little stronger than reality for me. More like it would be "kept in the closet". It's been a real joy to be able to guiltlessly enjoy all kinds of music since I've gotten over TWI. Last weekend I went to my daughter's annual high school music show. A group of music theory students performed a composition using Lewis Carroll's "Jabberwocky" poem set to a rock-hiphop melody. It was stunning. I enjoyed it immensely and felt none of the guilt that TWI would have us feel.
A big 10-4 on what George just said...there are plenty of hard luck cases everywhere. The example George used was extreme but it really made the point. The "trauma" of the cornfield cult pales in comparison to the hand that some folks have been dealt. A friend of mine was a POW (not to be confused with a WOW)...in Viet Nam for over a year and a half...after listening to some of his stories, I was too embarrassed to even mention my "horrible" experience at Emporia.
quote: I can't say I was ever told outright not to play or listen to certain things but there was an implication that since I was a musician that I should use those talents towards "the furthance of the word". Yikes!
Ditto here.
I remember the implications about certain bands, and the "source of their inspiration", but that was about it.
Yea -- I heard a lot of -"further the Word"- thru your music.
Gee...I never had to give up any of my music. Some of the wierdest music I ever listened to was after twig at the coordinator's house. I remember corpse that couldn't bring it ("secular" music) with them in rez but most of them just left their stuff with someone else. I also remember lcm liked Metallica. (Why that's still in my brain I dont know!) I also had plenty of wc that liked lots of diff non twi music.
First off thank you for some excellent responses. Marxist Minstrels hmm? I have heard some believers talk a few years back about holding communist ideas. wonder how that works?
I seem to remember general condemnation of rock music, specifically the evil Stones, and how it wasn't profitable to listen to it, but I don't recall ever being told to get rid of any records that I had. Not that I would have anyway.
I do recall some twi lackey going on and on about one song that was on the radio about every 15 minutes back then. It was so bad because it contained the lines "talk to God and listen to the casual reply" along with "friends around the campfire and everybody's high."
The devil's own "Rocky Mountain High" by that spawn of Satan, John Denver.
In the mid seventies, when I was out WOW, my Mom held the only garage sale she's had in her almost 79 years on this planet... sold around 150 of my albums for almost nothing... oh well... replaced most of them with CDs anyway! For some reason 'Low Spark of High Heel Boys' and Dave Mason's 'Alone Together' (marble pressing) didn't get taken, but my colored Nazz album did...
I was in a ministry band in STL. One practice the 3rd corps area cordo came. He played a "Jazz Crusaders" tape for us. He didn't play it as the devil's music, he played it as something HE thought was good quality music that we could learn from.
One of the guys in our band played cello in the orchestra that did the Athletes of the Spirit tape. One other guy played violin and had orchestra experience, but the rest of us were hippies with guitars, so I can see why the area cordo thought we needed some culture, or something.
But this area cordo guy HAD to have heard every bad thing VPW ever said about devil music yet it didn't bother him.
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Steve!
Well, I gave away all my Frank Zappa albums, Ted Nugent, ELO, and many many more.
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jezusfreaky
I was told once that ''Born to Run'' encouraged suicide because of the lyric ''it's a death trap, a suicide rap we gotta get out while we're young...'' As you can see...hasn't stopped me from listening to ''the Boss''
;)-->
A family member was told to burn all of her Stevie Nicks records because her production company is called ''Welsh Witch''. Oh brother!
-->
Don't think I'm gonna lose any crowns for singin' ''Darlington County'' in the shower...might scare the neighbors though!
;)--> 
:P-->
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Tom Strange
The book was "The Marxist Minstrels"... we were all being possessed by the heartbeat rythems in the music!
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George Aar
It's been almost thirty years, but I'm still ....ed that I got rid of:
a collection of "Jazz Crusaders" albums
several "Leadbelly" albums (a "Folkways" collection)
several "Wilson Pickett" albums
several assorted and sundry jazz albums including: Jean-luc Ponty, Stephan Grepelli, Zoot Sims, Ray Brown, Horace Silver, Mose Allison, Dexter Gordon, Ray Charles, The Inkspots, Brian Auger and the Oblivion Express (yeah, they were soooo devilish), Laura Nyro, and on and on... gawddam I threw away some great stuff!
I've managed to replace some of it, but a lot of it was pretty hard to locate to begin with.
Could it have been ANY dumber?
Sheesh, what a loon I was...
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ex10
Funny this topic should come up now...
My dearly beloved was a professional musician when he got involved with the cult.... He has always felt like he got sidetracked in a bad way by being involved, and gave up his professional and academic aspirations. This summer, he is turning 50, as are all his old comrades in music, and they are actually playing a "reunion concert" in his home town.
I'm hoping and praying that somehow he can come full circle and resolve his regrets about choosing another path.
:)--> Closure on the cult thing would be a very good. George, I love your contribution here at the cafe, but, no offense, my beloved is not meant to be a crudmugeon?? (sp). But would do better as someone who can move on despite past disappointments. 
;)--> Any secrets to success you (or anyone) can offer?
Any advice and thoughts are well appreciated.
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GrouchoMarxJr
Oh yes...watch out for the debbils music!
When I entered twi, I was taken "aside" and taught all about how the debbil had taken over the music industry...no more Grateful Dead, or Moody Blues, forget the Beatles, and you damn well better burn those Rolling Stone albums! Sympathy for the devil indeed!
Of course, all this debbil music was to be replaced with the Nazi music of wierwille's wayproductions...the inferior sound systems, the inferior song writing, composing and performing...all tempered by wierwille's "expertise" in understanding the spirituality of it all...and then censoring the little bit of talent and originality that dared rear it's head...how plastic, how phoney.
Yeah, it still pi$$es me off that I let those creeps talk me into their little cornfield reality...
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ex10
Yeah, unc hairy. What you said.
The only difference I see is that many people involved had ALOT OF TALENT, that got wasted.
:(-->
Many apologies for changing the focus of the thread a little, but I think it's relevant.
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lindyhopper
I believe my mother came back from an Advanced Class in Gunnison talking about how VPW had explained to them how different types of music could have a devilish influence. Classical promotes homosexuality and rock music promotes Marxism. I'm just making those up...I don't remember the exact examples, but it was taught. Perhaps that is what you were talking about.
Although, many years later at a Word in Business conference LCM told us art freaks that basically all music could be used in a devilishly or godly way. He gave the example of how he could see heavy metal productions as long as it glorified god. He just felt that the general population of believers were not ready for that or may not like it.
It was a few years later when that insane song, "Wash My Feet in the Blood of the Wicked" came out, I believe at an Adv. Class Special. I think that was twi's attempt at "heavy metal". That is pretty funny. It really was lame.
The closest thing they ever came to metal was around 85 or 86 @ the Rock. I don't remember the name of the band but Mike and Vic were two of the guys in it. They were Junior Corps brothers of ours. That was hilarious watching them bang their heads with all that hair. My brother was in the audiance doing the same. The people behind him were getting ....ed at him because he was whipping them with his hair. lol
Anyways...derail
I'll just make another post.
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George Aar
Ex10,
No offense taken at all. (Don't tell anybody, but I'm not nearly the crank I pretend to be some of the time)
I think any normal person is going to have regrets once they realize what a waste of life their tenure in WayWorld was. The trick is not to let it taint the rest of your life. It may be small comfort, but for me, seeing how incredibly privileged the boomer generation in the U.S. is, has helped me put my "wasted youth" in a little better perspective.
I mean, has any generation, in any country, at any point in history, had as much available to them as American Boomers? I don't think so. We've been incredibly coddled and catered to since we've first drawn breath.
The final "kicker" for me was when I was in Cambodia a few months back. The OVERWHELMING physical need of virtually everyone in the country made quite an impression on me.
Here's a people who spend their entire existence living like their ancestors did 5,000 years ago. They grow rice in their back yard, fish in their front yard, eat what they procure each day, and do it again tomorrow. They never see a doctor, never go to "town", never hear a radio or see a television. Seldom (or never?) go to school. Certainly can never attend a university. They live in a grass hut with no windows, floor, door, hell some of them don't even have all four walls!
These are people who have it tough. We have no complaint. One of the last people I saw in Phnom Penh was a land mine victim, begging at the market.
He had no right arm or right leg and when I approached him he pulled the towel from his head (a "schtick" I'm sure he employs regularly) to reveal the fact that he was also missing half of his face (with his right eye dangling down on what should have been his cheek). It appeared as though he'd never had any medical attention for his wounds at all. I was absolutely stunned at his overwhelming poor lot in life, and I vowed right then and there to NEVER AGAIN feel sorry for myself for any pathetic little problem I may have.
Yeah, I know it's corny, but how the hell can my misadventure with the Ohio Cornfield Cult begin to compare to those that have REALLY suffered a bad turn of events?
So, my advice to your better half? Perk up! Nobody gets outa here alive anyway. Might as well make the most of what we've got left.
O.K., it's not eloquent, but whaddaya want fer nuthin'?
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lindyhopper
I play the guitar and sing.
I can't say I was ever told outright not to play or listen to certain things but there was an implication that since I was a musician that I should use those talents towards "the furthance of the word". Yikes!
I was in a semi-punk band in high school and then in college I sold my electric toys for money to go to the WinB covnference. Still regret that. So I took my acoustic to the college open mic nights and sung my fustrations out there. I was pressured repeatedly to use my ability in fellowship and eventually I did. it was also in part because the older I got and the more involved I got the more I thought that I should be focusing this talent toward a "godly" use.
Now there are some great non-twi christian ska/punk/rock bands out there that are excellent musically and lyrically, but now I'm not especially interested in the music. Although, I do tune in, on occasion, to those radios stations just to see what is out there.
After I left school, which was my decision (but only after a couple of years of the serious demonization of debt), I rarely played in public and still don't. I long for it now. There is a freedom in playing your own music. I just have a sort of artist's block when it comes to music and writing. I still haven't found a way to put my anger and fustration and confusion regarding my involvement in twi and religious or philosophical ideas into music and lyrics. Perhaps because my parents are still in. I don't know.
In the visual arts catigory, I have no problem with ideas there. I have too many ideas. I just have a problem with the time and/or motivation to do most of it. Still I would love to get into a band and rock out or swing out or funk it up.
sorry if I still didn't contribute to the topic of this thread.
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Jim
"Gave up" is probably a little stronger than reality for me. More like it would be "kept in the closet". It's been a real joy to be able to guiltlessly enjoy all kinds of music since I've gotten over TWI. Last weekend I went to my daughter's annual high school music show. A group of music theory students performed a composition using Lewis Carroll's "Jabberwocky" poem set to a rock-hiphop melody. It was stunning. I enjoyed it immensely and felt none of the guilt that TWI would have us feel.
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GrouchoMarxJr
A big 10-4 on what George just said...there are plenty of hard luck cases everywhere. The example George used was extreme but it really made the point. The "trauma" of the cornfield cult pales in comparison to the hand that some folks have been dealt. A friend of mine was a POW (not to be confused with a WOW)...in Viet Nam for over a year and a half...after listening to some of his stories, I was too embarrassed to even mention my "horrible" experience at Emporia.
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lindyhopper
OK posting right after George really makes me sound like a little whining ugly american.
I admit...in the grand scheme of things...I have no complaints....no real problems to speak of.
Thanks for keeping things in perspective for me Geo.
its true
I'm fine
really
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ex10
Thank you, Georgie.
:)--> You are so priceless.
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ex10
Lindy,
Don't feel bad. Us artsy types never fit in.
:)--> It just goes with it, ya know? 
:)--> The real art is finding your niche.....
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ex10
And Jim, Oh my gosh, there is something so freeing about being able to go wherever the music takes you, and enjoy it!!!!
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dmiller
Ditto here.
I remember the implications about certain bands, and the "source of their inspiration", but that was about it.
Yea -- I heard a lot of -"further the Word"- thru your music.
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dmiller
Actually, I had given up listening to rock and a lot of other styles by the time I got into twi. I was into the Bluegrass by then.
ironically - Bill Monroe, the "Father" of bluegrass music, had the same reputation as vpw when the ladies were involved
-->
Monroe had a motorcoach too.
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smurfette
Gee...I never had to give up any of my music. Some of the wierdest music I ever listened to was after twig at the coordinator's house. I remember corpse that couldn't bring it ("secular" music) with them in rez but most of them just left their stuff with someone else. I also remember lcm liked Metallica. (Why that's still in my brain I dont know!) I also had plenty of wc that liked lots of diff non twi music.
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learning
First off thank you for some excellent responses. Marxist Minstrels hmm? I have heard some believers talk a few years back about holding communist ideas. wonder how that works?
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Pirate1974
I seem to remember general condemnation of rock music, specifically the evil Stones, and how it wasn't profitable to listen to it, but I don't recall ever being told to get rid of any records that I had. Not that I would have anyway.
I do recall some twi lackey going on and on about one song that was on the radio about every 15 minutes back then. It was so bad because it contained the lines "talk to God and listen to the casual reply" along with "friends around the campfire and everybody's high."
The devil's own "Rocky Mountain High" by that spawn of Satan, John Denver.
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Tom Strange
In the mid seventies, when I was out WOW, my Mom held the only garage sale she's had in her almost 79 years on this planet... sold around 150 of my albums for almost nothing... oh well... replaced most of them with CDs anyway! For some reason 'Low Spark of High Heel Boys' and Dave Mason's 'Alone Together' (marble pressing) didn't get taken, but my colored Nazz album did...
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johniam
I was in a ministry band in STL. One practice the 3rd corps area cordo came. He played a "Jazz Crusaders" tape for us. He didn't play it as the devil's music, he played it as something HE thought was good quality music that we could learn from.
One of the guys in our band played cello in the orchestra that did the Athletes of the Spirit tape. One other guy played violin and had orchestra experience, but the rest of us were hippies with guitars, so I can see why the area cordo thought we needed some culture, or something.
But this area cordo guy HAD to have heard every bad thing VPW ever said about devil music yet it didn't bother him.
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Tom Strange
My Limb Leaders turned me on to Bob James and Earl Klugh...
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