quote: I’m going to show you 4 specific keys that you can apply in order to triumph in achieving your word-based goals – decision, desire, details and deliverance.
As you said, this is nothing new. This was a teaching that LCM initiated in the late 70's called The Four D's of Doulous Doings. I think I might even still have the original tape, unless it melted up in my attic.
In my opinion, this statement once again shows that LCM is still the spiritual head of TWI. I'm almost surprised that the author didn't give him credit or at least footnote the article.
I wonder how many people know that that this was originally LCM's teaching? IMO, again, the author has taken credit for work that was not originally written by him.
And insurgent - it's not just a matter of them teaching something old or new, to me - it's the fact that they're still using LCM's old teaching as "the present truth" long after his departure. They can't seem to let him go.
So, obviously, LCM is NOT REALLY gone. They want the rank and file believer to THINK THAT HE IS, but the fact that they've not deviated one iota from his teachings is a clear indication that he still holds sway at the top. Since they seem to believe that his teachings are still entirely biblically accurate, there really was NO REASON to exile him to the outer reaches was there?---Afterall, what's a little extra-marital sex to a ministry upper eschelon that long ago raised the practice to the level of olympic competition? No, I believe that 'Ole Loy has 'em by the short-hairs somehow. Otherwise, they would feel free to move away from his troublesome doctrines and impliment ones that would be more easily entreated---and more easily sold to outsiders. The fact that they doggedly insist on pushing the idea of "Eve's Lesbian adventure", even though many of their followers (and not a few in The Way Corp) have never succeeded in wrapping their minds around the concept, is suspicious indeed, and indicative that LCM still holds sway. So what do you think they are paying him to lay low and keep his mouth shut? Afterall, even John Gotti was able to continue to run "the family" from prison...
Is there ANYTHING at all new in that rag? I used to wonder why it didn't bother them to lose so many committed folks. Maybe it's because they recognize that there really is nothing new going on. Just old hacks desperately pumping air into a lifeless corps in the hopes that no one will notice.
That article is just terrible AND boring. If one were to ever wax nostalgic for TWI, it would be a great antidote.
Also, is there anything about HOW to do anything? Unless I've missed something, it's all WHAT to do. Didn't they call themselves a "how-to" ministry at one time? "You should plan, you should believe, you should ALWAYS be at class", etc.
That's "2 or 3 people in less than a dozen INTERNATIONAL countries"......
Their track record has been to inflate their numbers. So, if they have a couple in one country and give them the title over a few neighboring countries the real statistic would be a fractional person in each country then.......... :D-->
Besides they had to re-open this department because of lawsuits dontchaknow!!!!!!!!! -->
quote:I wonder how many people know that that this was originally LCM's teaching? IMO, again, the author has taken credit for work that was not originally written by him.
Ya know... as I was reading (well... skimming actually) the article I was thinking "I've seen this before somewhere"... and you're right... I think I'll go get my notes out and see if it matches... nah...
I wonder if Steve C will come visit us over on the 9th Corps thread sometime?
Hope -- mistah fartindale taught the 4ds in the fall of 75 during our first year in rez of 6ckkthpphth kork training! maybe my3centavos could tell us if he did it in the 5th korks first year...
NOOOO more corps numbers. No more 6th corps, 7th, etc. Now it's class of xx.
Similar thing with AC nametags. When you took LCMs version, you got a new one with the current year, even if you took back in the day. Wearing the old one was verboten! Just like wearing ANY old nametag was strictly forbidden.
I hated that teaching on "4 Ds". I always thought is was BS putting decision before desire.
I think desire has to be there before you ever make a decision. God builds desire in us to achieve things for Him. This teaching is just a way to teach the koolaid drinkers to make decisions and then tell God what they want Him to do to bless them. There's no inspiration or working of God going on in that treacherous place.
I had an innie friend who complained that there was no new research going on. I asked her why she stayed. She responded nobody else in the world was doing any research either, so she would just stay where the best resources were available.....what kind of koolaid would you like today, honey?
This same person got kicked out of the kork a few years ago. She came to live with me when she first got booted. She kept claiming the ministry was a cult. Of course my pea-brained wayfer brain kicked that idea out. I knew her as a trouble maker, so I figured she got kicked out for making trouble. Now I think back, she was making the right kind of trouble. I wonder if she got squashed in her desire to make things right? Too bad. I knew so many people go in to the kork to "make things right". They will just graduate to be kork pee-ons unless they kiss enough arse to become a region coordinator or something.
WayferNot! I thought it was "Function" not "Position". Do you mean it's really political? ;)-->
I hate it when they throw that "there's nothing better out there" line at me. I want to ask when the last time was they actually looked to see what was out there. Have they looked or are they just taking someone's word for it?
The honest thing would be for them to just put Craig back in charge and tell people what they already say in one-on-one situations:
"Craig may have been 'off the word' in a few areas, but look at how much 'new light' and 'great research' he taught us. David was forgiven. Paul was forgiven. We should forgive Craig and let him keep on telling us what to do and how to do things."
That would be the honest thing.
I didn't know that the teaching started with him, but I do know I've heard it a million times and if I never hear it again, it will be too soon.
_That's "2 or 3 people in less than a dozen INTERNATIONAL countries"......_
Their track record has been to inflate their numbers. So, if they have a couple in one country and give them the title over a few neighboring countries the real statistic would be a fractional person in each country then.......... :D-->
Besides they had to re-open this department because of lawsuits dontchaknow!!!!!!!!! -->
You missed my point.
They refer to other countries as "international countries", which is
redundant, like the wet water, or the hot fire. (Or the "chorus choir".)
The only thing I disagree with is that you left out the word "international"
quote:I wonder how many people know that that this was originally LCM's teaching? IMO, again, the author has taken credit for work that was not originally written by him.
Ya know... as I was reading (well... skimming actually) the article I was thinking "I've seen this before somewhere"... and you're right... I think I'll go get my notes out and see if it matches... nah...
I wonder if Steve C will come visit us over on the 9th Corps thread sometime?
I recognized it INSTANTLY as having been covered in JAL's "WIll The Real You Please
Stand Up?" , and was probably taken from lcm's teaching and written into the book.
(That's the book that says "fear is sand in the machinery of life" twice, while
mixing up the word order- "fear is sand in the life of machinery", "life is fear in the
sand of machinery." I think those were the orders. :)--> )
And, yes, putting Desire before Decision suggests you're doing things you don't want
to do, and stopping things you do, since they started with Desire.
Hey, give the 4 D's some credit: they helped me realize that it was just a behavior conditioning tool and had no logical application according to the bible (small "b" not a typo) or Real Life. It was just a short step or two from there to the door for me.
If I ever want to control a person or group of people I'll use the "4 D" technique as my foundation and they'll be MINE, ALL MINE!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! I WILL RULE THE- sorry, ignore that. Really. Pretend you didn't see it.
Every time rational, logical thought without "spiritual" rationalizations and excuses cropped up, someone was sure to toss the 4 D's my way and I slurped it up every time until the bitter end. Well, there's always the SIT trick to help you clear your mind of those nagging questions and observations... actually, once I realized that the 4 D's were a behavior control device, I realized how many of the other "foundational" principles I was following had similar effects.
Now, I will be the last to say that the mind and behavior controlling techniques were ever deliberately intended to thwart free will and logical reasoning, but once those in charge saw the desired results being produced when something like this was taught, it was easy for them to sincerely believe that they'd stumbled upon a clear godly (not a typo...) technique for helping god's people realize the more abundant prevailing (^*&*%%&^%^ etc...
They really, really, honestly believe this stuff, folks. That's what makes it so sad. I believe that VPW was either a stone cold liar or insane (or a bit of both) and LCM has serious mental problems, but none of the other leadership I personally worked with or dealt with in any way ever thought this .... was anything but god's own truth.
Big derail, sorry. My subscription finally ran out and the ones I got since I gave up the Kool-Aid habit never made it past the garbage can next to the mailbox, so I have nothing else to say about the current issue.
What is so bad about making a decision to do something you don't really feel like doing it? Isn't that all that decision before desire means? I don't feel like getting up for work every day but I still do.
Disclaimer: I never heard LCM's teaching so I may be off base here.
I would not presume that becasue TWI repackaged the 'Four D's of Doulos Doings' that Martindale was still pulling the strings. That's a pretty big leap.
It may be that TWI is simply using the old material they have on hand for lack of anything new.
Even so, the 4 D's are an immutable spiritual law, right? And if it was an immutable law in '78 then it must still be an immutable law - right?
insurgent, thanks! But I must apologize; I took my article out of the May/June magazine but see you were reporting from the Mar/Apr one. Hope I did not cause any confusion. :(-->
Thought I would take you up on your acceptance and note the articles in this magazine should anyone be interested.
To the Rescue! by P*r*y P*a*e
Workers Together with God in Outreach by C*r*s G*a*l*c*
Devoted to Serve by T*m M*l*i*s
A Way of Escape to Prevailing Victory by P*t*y F* y R*b*r*s
The Foundation of Parenting: God's Word (un-authored)
Figures Involving Change "Metonymy-Change of Noun" by I*a B*r*e*
STS Highlights 2/1-3/28
Crossing the Finish Line Way Disciple Outreach Group X Recognized (un-authored)
2003-2004 Leaders Meetings (which I posted earlier)
From the Heart Letters
Advanced Class Special 2004 (promo)
The article on outreach has a picture of two staff members painting the W barn, hmmm that is outreach. Certainly wouldn't fit the description of what I was forced into.
The Advanced Class Special always a thorn in my side in part because of their uncaring decision to make it over Thanksgiving, what's up with those numb-nuts anyway?
(partial promo)
Rejoice together with hundreds of faithful graduates of the advanced class on TWAP. The BOD and others will be holding forth God's matchless Word that will lead, guide, and minister to your heart.
At Advanced Class Special 2004 you'll
• become more skilled in the Word of righteousness
• increase your understanding of the walk of a mature disciple
• grow in God's power and in your ability to bring God's power to others
You have to really look hard to find anything said by the fox, the closest I noted thus far was that she encouraged Group X to expect to receive a more power-filled life-style as a result of their giving to others as a WD.
insurgent I bet you have your magazine by now, I hope you were not busy working on what I just posted. -->
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ex10
Funny to me how the theme of being thankful, and the worship that flows out of a grateful heart is missing....
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Hope R.
As you said, this is nothing new. This was a teaching that LCM initiated in the late 70's called The Four D's of Doulous Doings. I think I might even still have the original tape, unless it melted up in my attic.
In my opinion, this statement once again shows that LCM is still the spiritual head of TWI. I'm almost surprised that the author didn't give him credit or at least footnote the article.
I wonder how many people know that that this was originally LCM's teaching? IMO, again, the author has taken credit for work that was not originally written by him.
And insurgent - it's not just a matter of them teaching something old or new, to me - it's the fact that they're still using LCM's old teaching as "the present truth" long after his departure. They can't seem to let him go.
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WordWolf
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Cherished Child
So, obviously, LCM is NOT REALLY gone. They want the rank and file believer to THINK THAT HE IS, but the fact that they've not deviated one iota from his teachings is a clear indication that he still holds sway at the top. Since they seem to believe that his teachings are still entirely biblically accurate, there really was NO REASON to exile him to the outer reaches was there?---Afterall, what's a little extra-marital sex to a ministry upper eschelon that long ago raised the practice to the level of olympic competition? No, I believe that 'Ole Loy has 'em by the short-hairs somehow. Otherwise, they would feel free to move away from his troublesome doctrines and impliment ones that would be more easily entreated---and more easily sold to outsiders. The fact that they doggedly insist on pushing the idea of "Eve's Lesbian adventure", even though many of their followers (and not a few in The Way Corp) have never succeeded in wrapping their minds around the concept, is suspicious indeed, and indicative that LCM still holds sway. So what do you think they are paying him to lay low and keep his mouth shut? Afterall, even John Gotti was able to continue to run "the family" from prison...
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Trefor Heywood
Reading the article upon classes one has to wonder how people used to manage before the days of mobile phones.
We never made contingency plans and in fact on the WOW field and even when I was a Twig leader I didn't have a phone period.
Just trusted and believed that people would turn up on time and they always did.
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JustThinking
Is there ANYTHING at all new in that rag? I used to wonder why it didn't bother them to lose so many committed folks. Maybe it's because they recognize that there really is nothing new going on. Just old hacks desperately pumping air into a lifeless corps in the hopes that no one will notice.
That article is just terrible AND boring. If one were to ever wax nostalgic for TWI, it would be a great antidote.
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JustThinking
Also, is there anything about HOW to do anything? Unless I've missed something, it's all WHAT to do. Didn't they call themselves a "how-to" ministry at one time? "You should plan, you should believe, you should ALWAYS be at class", etc.
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Grizzy
WordWolf changed the original:
That's "2 or 3 people in less than a dozen INTERNATIONAL countries"......
Their track record has been to inflate their numbers. So, if they have a couple in one country and give them the title over a few neighboring countries the real statistic would be a fractional person in each country then..........
:D-->
Besides they had to re-open this department because of lawsuits dontchaknow!!!!!!!!!
-->
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Tom Strange
ShegotJohn said:
Ya know... as I was reading (well... skimming actually) the article I was thinking "I've seen this before somewhere"... and you're right... I think I'll go get my notes out and see if it matches... nah...I wonder if Steve C will come visit us over on the 9th Corps thread sometime?
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alfakat
Hope -- mistah fartindale taught the 4ds in the fall of 75 during our first year in rez of 6ckkthpphth kork training! maybe my3centavos could tell us if he did it in the 5th korks first year...
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excathedra
By Steve Crommett – class of 81
CLASS of 81 ?????
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JustThinking
Exie,
NOOOO more corps numbers. No more 6th corps, 7th, etc. Now it's class of xx.
Similar thing with AC nametags. When you took LCMs version, you got a new one with the current year, even if you took back in the day. Wearing the old one was verboten! Just like wearing ANY old nametag was strictly forbidden.
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excathedra
thanks JT
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Nottawayfer
I hated that teaching on "4 Ds". I always thought is was BS putting decision before desire.
I think desire has to be there before you ever make a decision. God builds desire in us to achieve things for Him. This teaching is just a way to teach the koolaid drinkers to make decisions and then tell God what they want Him to do to bless them. There's no inspiration or working of God going on in that treacherous place.
I had an innie friend who complained that there was no new research going on. I asked her why she stayed. She responded nobody else in the world was doing any research either, so she would just stay where the best resources were available.....what kind of koolaid would you like today, honey?
This same person got kicked out of the kork a few years ago. She came to live with me when she first got booted. She kept claiming the ministry was a cult. Of course my pea-brained wayfer brain kicked that idea out. I knew her as a trouble maker, so I figured she got kicked out for making trouble. Now I think back, she was making the right kind of trouble. I wonder if she got squashed in her desire to make things right? Too bad. I knew so many people go in to the kork to "make things right". They will just graduate to be kork pee-ons unless they kiss enough arse to become a region coordinator or something.
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WaywardWayfer
WayferNot! I thought it was "Function" not "Position". Do you mean it's really political?
;)-->
I hate it when they throw that "there's nothing better out there" line at me. I want to ask when the last time was they actually looked to see what was out there. Have they looked or are they just taking someone's word for it?
The honest thing would be for them to just put Craig back in charge and tell people what they already say in one-on-one situations:
"Craig may have been 'off the word' in a few areas, but look at how much 'new light' and 'great research' he taught us. David was forgiven. Paul was forgiven. We should forgive Craig and let him keep on telling us what to do and how to do things."
That would be the honest thing.
I didn't know that the teaching started with him, but I do know I've heard it a million times and if I never hear it again, it will be too soon.
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WordWolf
You missed my point.
They refer to other countries as "international countries", which is
redundant, like the wet water, or the hot fire. (Or the "chorus choir".)
The only thing I disagree with is that you left out the word "international"
before the word "countries".
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WordWolf
I recognized it INSTANTLY as having been covered in JAL's "WIll The Real You Please
Stand Up?" , and was probably taken from lcm's teaching and written into the book.
(That's the book that says "fear is sand in the machinery of life" twice, while
mixing up the word order- "fear is sand in the life of machinery", "life is fear in the
sand of machinery." I think those were the orders.
:)--> )
And, yes, putting Desire before Decision suggests you're doing things you don't want
to do, and stopping things you do, since they started with Desire.
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Grizzy
After all it is The Way Intertrashinal
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A la prochaine
Just thinking of looking at the pictures in those magazines gives me the willies.
Those plastic looking Koolaid drinkers with their pasty smiles...YUK YUK YUK YUK YUK YUK YUK YUK YUK YUK YUK YUK!
...gives me the shivers.
:o-->
Everything is so staged!!!!
I suppose they are representing the TRUE Way Intertrashinal after all!
:D-->
YIKES
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Jason P
Hey, give the 4 D's some credit: they helped me realize that it was just a behavior conditioning tool and had no logical application according to the bible (small "b" not a typo) or Real Life. It was just a short step or two from there to the door for me.
If I ever want to control a person or group of people I'll use the "4 D" technique as my foundation and they'll be MINE, ALL MINE!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! I WILL RULE THE- sorry, ignore that. Really. Pretend you didn't see it.
Every time rational, logical thought without "spiritual" rationalizations and excuses cropped up, someone was sure to toss the 4 D's my way and I slurped it up every time until the bitter end. Well, there's always the SIT trick to help you clear your mind of those nagging questions and observations... actually, once I realized that the 4 D's were a behavior control device, I realized how many of the other "foundational" principles I was following had similar effects.
Now, I will be the last to say that the mind and behavior controlling techniques were ever deliberately intended to thwart free will and logical reasoning, but once those in charge saw the desired results being produced when something like this was taught, it was easy for them to sincerely believe that they'd stumbled upon a clear godly (not a typo...) technique for helping god's people realize the more abundant prevailing (^*&*%%&^%^ etc...
They really, really, honestly believe this stuff, folks. That's what makes it so sad. I believe that VPW was either a stone cold liar or insane (or a bit of both) and LCM has serious mental problems, but none of the other leadership I personally worked with or dealt with in any way ever thought this .... was anything but god's own truth.
Big derail, sorry. My subscription finally ran out and the ones I got since I gave up the Kool-Aid habit never made it past the garbage can next to the mailbox, so I have nothing else to say about the current issue.
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A la prochaine
Jason,
I sent you a PT.
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JustThinking
What is so bad about making a decision to do something you don't really feel like doing it? Isn't that all that decision before desire means? I don't feel like getting up for work every day but I still do.
Disclaimer: I never heard LCM's teaching so I may be off base here.
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Goey
I would not presume that becasue TWI repackaged the 'Four D's of Doulos Doings' that Martindale was still pulling the strings. That's a pretty big leap.
It may be that TWI is simply using the old material they have on hand for lack of anything new.
Even so, the 4 D's are an immutable spiritual law, right? And if it was an immutable law in '78 then it must still be an immutable law - right?
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houseisarockin
insurgent, thanks! But I must apologize; I took my article out of the May/June magazine but see you were reporting from the Mar/Apr one. Hope I did not cause any confusion.
:(-->
Thought I would take you up on your acceptance and note the articles in this magazine should anyone be interested.
To the Rescue! by P*r*y P*a*e
Workers Together with God in Outreach by C*r*s G*a*l*c*
Devoted to Serve by T*m M*l*i*s
A Way of Escape to Prevailing Victory by P*t*y F* y R*b*r*s
The Foundation of Parenting: God's Word (un-authored)
Figures Involving Change "Metonymy-Change of Noun" by I*a B*r*e*
STS Highlights 2/1-3/28
Crossing the Finish Line Way Disciple Outreach Group X Recognized (un-authored)
2003-2004 Leaders Meetings (which I posted earlier)
From the Heart Letters
Advanced Class Special 2004 (promo)
The article on outreach has a picture of two staff members painting the W barn, hmmm that is outreach. Certainly wouldn't fit the description of what I was forced into.
The Advanced Class Special always a thorn in my side in part because of their uncaring decision to make it over Thanksgiving, what's up with those numb-nuts anyway?
(partial promo)
Rejoice together with hundreds of faithful graduates of the advanced class on TWAP. The BOD and others will be holding forth God's matchless Word that will lead, guide, and minister to your heart.
At Advanced Class Special 2004 you'll
• become more skilled in the Word of righteousness
• increase your understanding of the walk of a mature disciple
• grow in God's power and in your ability to bring God's power to others
You have to really look hard to find anything said by the fox, the closest I noted thus far was that she encouraged Group X to expect to receive a more power-filled life-style as a result of their giving to others as a WD.
insurgent I bet you have your magazine by now, I hope you were not busy working on what I just posted.
-->
copyright twi 2004
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