OH, if you know of any other modes outside of the bible, other then the obvious(intimidation) please speak your peace. Might add how it effected you as an example. Thanks, :D-->
The one about no condemation in christ Jesus kept my mouth shut for quite a few years as well as the fact a persons ministry could be ruined and you will be blamed and punished for it if you spoke "evil" , even if it was the honest truth of a brother or sister.
Twi thrived on fear motivation. Once you were initiated into the "fold", peer pressure became enormous. Because you were severed from your old friends, family, etc...you now had to jump through their hoops in order to maintain your standing within the group. Otherwise, you would be cut loose and left alone...you'd be a greasespot by midnight.
The fear was both subtle and overt. It was direct and it was also indirect. It came from all directions, from numerous sources...it was an underlying theme, that whatever you did, you were required to perform...or you would lose favor with the group.
For many people, they actually feared for their lives...for others, it was the fear of their corps assignment not being what they wanted. It varied for each individual. The common denominator in each case however, was exploitation through coercion. The old bait and switch...promise them the blessings of God and when you got em hooked, give them the threat of the devil.
I think most children develop a deep inner yearning for their parents to be proud of them. They may seek college or career paths that they think would garner parental pride. If they choose their own way, they may desperately try to get their parents to accept them for who they are. Any promotions, honors, or awards come their way, and they turn to their parents for validation, sometimes even when the parents have already set a pattern of not accepting the accomplishments of their children.
I think many of us transferred that need for approval to TWI leadership, and/or to God Himself. (From our fathers to our Heavenly Father.) Instead of accepting His approval of us as His children, we strove for His pride in our works. To this day, I feel a deep sadness that my efforts are a meager attempt to fulfill what God would have me do. My inner hope is that God would be pleased with my poor offering.
I think one of TWI's greatest weapons was to exploit that hunger for approval into a fear of failure.
God wants you to go WOW/Corps/take this class.
God wants you to give money until it hurts.
God wants you to control every aspect of your life, and we will tell you how.
God wants you to be grateful to the men who bring you the rightly-divided Word -- we will show you how to express your gratitude.
What wise words indeed, Shaz. Most of us do need the support and approval of those we look up to...be it in our family, our work situation, or groups we are involved in. The validation we get from a pat on the back or an "atta-boy/girl" makes us feel we matter. TWI exploited that, often in reverse. Negative reinforcement replaced positive in many cases. Seems to me most of us would knock ourselves out to gain the approval of local leadership, who were operating under the guise of staying in fellowship with the Big Guy. Leadership, of course, was doing the same thing to garner the favor of the BOD. They had a nice little setup going there...for a while anyway.
I got out, thank God, before the worst of it broke loose. Fear is a great motivator and control tactic...
it works for a time, anyway. But I choose to believe that "There is no fear in love, but perfect love casteth out fear"...Too bad they forgot that, or chose to ignore it. Glad we didn't.
Mj--I was in that catagory. I was such a kid, even though I was in college. And while I wasn't self destructive, I was a huge risk taker.
Funny, I had left the catholic church a few years earlier than my involvement in TWI because the fear of hell stuff ceased to scare me.
TWI taught no hell, We are righteous now... and it wasn't until the nineties that I realized I was running on fear--fear of 'opening a door to the Adversary,' fear of causing harm to my children by my unbelief, fear of humiliation and reproof, fear of being a 'conduit' for devil spirits. Later on there was the fear of losing my marriage in the pressure...
The turning point for me was in June of '95. I got kicked out in Oct. of '94 but was still listening to SNS tapes; still hanging on to the idea that TWI was "God's true ministry". Then came tape #1800 God's abundance in the future. It was LCM of course and he used scripture to teach that anyone who wasn't pure before God was going to get this scathing reproof session right after the gathering together which would feature wailing and gnashing of teeth and we were NOT going to like it and the only reward we'd get was for getting born again and it was just AWFUL.
At that point I could go one of two ways: fear or no fear. Fear was pulling me to be desperate to get back in TWI's good graces. No fear was pulling me to say 'screw 'em; get on with your life.
So I guess the elevated status of TWI leadership was a source of fear. PFAL painted such a great picture of how God loves us and we are so precious to God and 5 sonship rights, etc. but somehow TWI leadership could pull the plug on all of that. Seems absurd now, but not at the time.
The biggest fear I learned in TWI and had held over my head was Job's "That which I have greatly feared has come upon me."
Right after I took the class I had noticed that the company I worked for was in financial trouble and things weren't getting much better. I knew I would have to start looking for a job in the near future. I started cleaning out my office bringing a little stuff home each day. I started working on my resume and checking the want ads. I mentioned it to my HFC and he freaked out. He said I was so afraid it was going to happen that it WAS going to happen. I told him it WAS going to happen regardless of what I believed. When it happened he gave me his best "I told you so." I was merely acting on the obvious - WTF!! BUT I eventually convinced myself that the whole bloody company went under financially and tons of people lost their jobs because of MY unbelief. -->
right we thought we were God controlling everything in the universe!
that is sad because ya know what if someone really did need another christian to love them through a hurt or a sorrow or just hard times.. people got to the point they were afraid to love one another when we needed one another the most..
sad really . because I think that is what Jesus Christ did best while working with his people and actualy asked us to Love one another as He loved us .
Thanks so much for your imput. Uncle harry your psychological analysis of who, why and how can be pondered for days. Shanzdancer your perception and insite speaks to my soul. MJ412 your lifes experiances speak loudly. Mr.D it is that simple. Bramble... words of widom. Waybackinthe70s, wonderful observation. Johniam thank for sharing your truth. Wayward wayfer you make a good point.
I know I had tremendous fear before TWI and I seemed to evolve confidently in a good direction till I got in the WC. I gave up so much of my power because I believed "they" were more spiritual than I.
Because of fear I believed I did not love, give ,serve enough. Because if I loved more I woun't have all this fear. What a vicious cycle.
I also understand from the very first twig mtng. I was not encouraged to think for myself. READ THE BOOK, take a class, abs. There was no cognitive dialog outside of its own system. So recognizing fear was not humanly recognizable or addresses. It was spiritualized(of the diablos) and disguised. What a mess.
Yes MJ, it was evil to speak truth about a brother or sister however, it was "love" when a coordinator spread gossip about the believers to others within the household.
I don't know about other areas but the Knoxville branches were really bad when it came to gossip within the fellowships. The number one leaders were very good at expressing their opinion about believers and especially about those who decided to leave.
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imbus
OH, if you know of any other modes outside of the bible, other then the obvious(intimidation) please speak your peace. Might add how it effected you as an example. Thanks,
:D-->
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mj412
The one about no condemation in christ Jesus kept my mouth shut for quite a few years as well as the fact a persons ministry could be ruined and you will be blamed and punished for it if you spoke "evil" , even if it was the honest truth of a brother or sister.
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GrouchoMarxJr
Twi thrived on fear motivation. Once you were initiated into the "fold", peer pressure became enormous. Because you were severed from your old friends, family, etc...you now had to jump through their hoops in order to maintain your standing within the group. Otherwise, you would be cut loose and left alone...you'd be a greasespot by midnight.
The fear was both subtle and overt. It was direct and it was also indirect. It came from all directions, from numerous sources...it was an underlying theme, that whatever you did, you were required to perform...or you would lose favor with the group.
For many people, they actually feared for their lives...for others, it was the fear of their corps assignment not being what they wanted. It varied for each individual. The common denominator in each case however, was exploitation through coercion. The old bait and switch...promise them the blessings of God and when you got em hooked, give them the threat of the devil.
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dmiller
Hmmmmm. I saw it as the exact opposite, and still do.
Guess this is relegated to the "arena" of what you think "condemnation in Christ" really means.
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dmiller
Doen't matter what they were, or where they were --If a verse suited the purpose, twi knew where it was, and how to use it against us.
Chapter, and verse? Sure -- we'll give you chapter and verse.
-->
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shazdancer
Dear imbus,
I think most children develop a deep inner yearning for their parents to be proud of them. They may seek college or career paths that they think would garner parental pride. If they choose their own way, they may desperately try to get their parents to accept them for who they are. Any promotions, honors, or awards come their way, and they turn to their parents for validation, sometimes even when the parents have already set a pattern of not accepting the accomplishments of their children.
I think many of us transferred that need for approval to TWI leadership, and/or to God Himself. (From our fathers to our Heavenly Father.) Instead of accepting His approval of us as His children, we strove for His pride in our works. To this day, I feel a deep sadness that my efforts are a meager attempt to fulfill what God would have me do. My inner hope is that God would be pleased with my poor offering.
I think one of TWI's greatest weapons was to exploit that hunger for approval into a fear of failure.
Regards,
Shaz
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way back in the 70s
What wise words indeed, Shaz. Most of us do need the support and approval of those we look up to...be it in our family, our work situation, or groups we are involved in. The validation we get from a pat on the back or an "atta-boy/girl" makes us feel we matter. TWI exploited that, often in reverse. Negative reinforcement replaced positive in many cases. Seems to me most of us would knock ourselves out to gain the approval of local leadership, who were operating under the guise of staying in fellowship with the Big Guy. Leadership, of course, was doing the same thing to garner the favor of the BOD. They had a nice little setup going there...for a while anyway.
I got out, thank God, before the worst of it broke loose. Fear is a great motivator and control tactic...
it works for a time, anyway. But I choose to believe that "There is no fear in love, but perfect love casteth out fear"...Too bad they forgot that, or chose to ignore it. Glad we didn't.
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mj412
my children are now at the age I was when I thought the way ministry had all the answers.
my kids are educated and successful and independent people, leaders and able to accept and hold responsibility for themselves and others.
yet Im sorry age brings a courage and wisdom youth just does not have yet.
not ll but many of the people involved in the way when I was in had not even begun to grow up and realize what being a grown up was or is.
twi just fell into the slot of wonder, niave and idealism of youth for many.
but then some of us grew up .
uhoh
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Bramble
Mj--I was in that catagory. I was such a kid, even though I was in college. And while I wasn't self destructive, I was a huge risk taker.
Funny, I had left the catholic church a few years earlier than my involvement in TWI because the fear of hell stuff ceased to scare me.
TWI taught no hell, We are righteous now... and it wasn't until the nineties that I realized I was running on fear--fear of 'opening a door to the Adversary,' fear of causing harm to my children by my unbelief, fear of humiliation and reproof, fear of being a 'conduit' for devil spirits. Later on there was the fear of losing my marriage in the pressure...
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johniam
The turning point for me was in June of '95. I got kicked out in Oct. of '94 but was still listening to SNS tapes; still hanging on to the idea that TWI was "God's true ministry". Then came tape #1800 God's abundance in the future. It was LCM of course and he used scripture to teach that anyone who wasn't pure before God was going to get this scathing reproof session right after the gathering together which would feature wailing and gnashing of teeth and we were NOT going to like it and the only reward we'd get was for getting born again and it was just AWFUL.
At that point I could go one of two ways: fear or no fear. Fear was pulling me to be desperate to get back in TWI's good graces. No fear was pulling me to say 'screw 'em; get on with your life.
So I guess the elevated status of TWI leadership was a source of fear. PFAL painted such a great picture of how God loves us and we are so precious to God and 5 sonship rights, etc. but somehow TWI leadership could pull the plug on all of that. Seems absurd now, but not at the time.
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WaywardWayfer
AMEN Some really good comments on this thread.
The biggest fear I learned in TWI and had held over my head was Job's "That which I have greatly feared has come upon me."
Right after I took the class I had noticed that the company I worked for was in financial trouble and things weren't getting much better. I knew I would have to start looking for a job in the near future. I started cleaning out my office bringing a little stuff home each day. I started working on my resume and checking the want ads. I mentioned it to my HFC and he freaked out. He said I was so afraid it was going to happen that it WAS going to happen. I told him it WAS going to happen regardless of what I believed. When it happened he gave me his best "I told you so." I was merely acting on the obvious - WTF!! BUT I eventually convinced myself that the whole bloody company went under financially and tons of people lost their jobs because of MY unbelief.
-->
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mj412
right we thought we were God controlling everything in the universe!
that is sad because ya know what if someone really did need another christian to love them through a hurt or a sorrow or just hard times.. people got to the point they were afraid to love one another when we needed one another the most..
sad really . because I think that is what Jesus Christ did best while working with his people and actualy asked us to Love one another as He loved us .
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imbus
Thanks so much for your imput. Uncle harry your psychological analysis of who, why and how can be pondered for days. Shanzdancer your perception and insite speaks to my soul. MJ412 your lifes experiances speak loudly. Mr.D it is that simple. Bramble... words of widom. Waybackinthe70s, wonderful observation. Johniam thank for sharing your truth. Wayward wayfer you make a good point.
I know I had tremendous fear before TWI and I seemed to evolve confidently in a good direction till I got in the WC. I gave up so much of my power because I believed "they" were more spiritual than I.
Because of fear I believed I did not love, give ,serve enough. Because if I loved more I woun't have all this fear. What a vicious cycle.
I also understand from the very first twig mtng. I was not encouraged to think for myself. READ THE BOOK, take a class, abs. There was no cognitive dialog outside of its own system. So recognizing fear was not humanly recognizable or addresses. It was spiritualized(of the diablos) and disguised. What a mess.
Thanks you'al!
:D-->
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outandabout
That's right, as MJ said, we were supposed to be God controlling the Universe.
What a relief when I didn't have to be God anymore.
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sadie
Yes MJ, it was evil to speak truth about a brother or sister however, it was "love" when a coordinator spread gossip about the believers to others within the household.
I don't know about other areas but the Knoxville branches were really bad when it came to gossip within the fellowships. The number one leaders were very good at expressing their opinion about believers and especially about those who decided to leave.
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