Has anyone actually verified the rumor that The Way International Bookstore is now "open to the public"? What exactly does "open to the public" mean---that anyone can mail in a bookstore order with a check and they'll send you the desired product? Or can any old Joe (or Greasespotter) drive up to Headquarters, walk into the bookstore, and purchase whatever they desire? I somehow have a hard time believing that TWI is willing to relax the very tight control they have historically excercised over ALL their materials. Why would they suddenly lift their distribution restrictions after all these years?
Yes, I also would like to hear this rumor confirmed. Actually, if they are open to the public, I would like for them to announce it on greasespot. We have posed many questions for them and I would like them to answer. I know that it takes a group that is honest to come forward with those anwers. We'll have to wait and see if they come forward and respond. Action speaks louder than words. IMHO
quote: What about the Way Magazine? Can anyone get a subscription now?
Anybody could buy a Way Mag subscription or a SNS subscription all along, even if they were marked and avoided. It was just other bookstore items that were not made available to those of us outside their precious household.
ps: they did give away all of the pfal books a few years back--martinpuke was still around. I'm sure they did it because of his class. But they may have printed them again after they started focusing on pfal a few years ago.
If anybody wants to know for sure, why don't you just call and ask for the bookstore and place an order? If they don't sell to those who are not "active", then they will let you know.
I wasn't allowed to renew my subscription to either the mag or the SNS tapes back in '94 after I was M&A'd. My check was returned to me.
I used to want to read Mrs. Wierwille's book, but it's probably not really even her story, but what the bod approved being called her story so I won't even try to order one.
PJ - That's the same Ramona who's named in the Allen's lawsuit...
(She worked switchboard, if memory serves me.)
.........................
Back to the thread...
Y'all --
I seriously doubt this to be true about the book store being open. You know if it is true they're only going to let people have certain things "until you've had the class..."
I mean really... Do you expect they'd give just anyone carte blanc with their materials?
...And a return of PFAL? Be real! Would they re-do it? Maybe but what I find more interesting in examining this whole thing is that RFR has done little/nothing to place her mark on the ministry.
Why hasn't she written a book? Or filmed a class? Or done a teaching tour? Or something? Anything? She certainly has an ego... What's she doing to make her mark?
It will be interesting to see this story confirmed...
ROYAL GORGE -- you say your source is a good one...? Define "good".
bowtwi, I have the book and will share a portion of the preface. Before doing so for those who have not read the book it was done in partnership with her daughter KWM. And she was asked to write it by HA.
The idea of writing my husband's biography didn't originate with me. I was asked to do it. Previously when a biography was mentioned, I had thought I would be able to contribute to one. I was very aware that no one else could accurately relate Dr. W's life without my input. He and I were raised in the same community and lived much of our lives together. I felt I knew his life better than anyone else and therefore could reconstruct it most fully and authentically. Thus when I was asked to write a biography of Dr. W, I became thankful to God for the privilege.
I chose to begin this book with the historical background of the W family, giving the context into which Dr. W was born. The biography then continues through his school years, his two pastorates, the radio broadcast ministry, our seven-month foreign teaching tour, his resignation from the denomination, the launching of The W Ministry on an independent basis, and moving The W Headquarters to NK, **. In other words, this book covers Dr. W's life from 1916-1961. I plan to continue his life's story from 1961 to 1985 in a second volume.
In considering how to tell Dr. W's life story, I certainly didn't want to interpret or analyze him or compare him to any Bible saint. I set out to chronicle his actions and his own words-to let them speak for him. Of course I, as the author, had to decide what to include in the story and what to leave out, otherwise this work would be way too long.
quote:Has anyone actually verified the rumor that The Way International Bookstore is now "open to the public"?
I just got off the phone with the bookstore, and yes, they told me that all the books and everything else that's available in the bookstore is currently open to the public.
I asked them if the rumor on the internet was true, that bookstore items are now available to former believers? She said, "where did you hear that from"? I responded "Greasespot Cafe". She said, yes, it's true, the bookstore is now open to former believers ... She didn't ask my name or location, and I told her I was a "former believer".
Also, she told me they have everything in stock in the PFAL series, books 1-5, all the collaterals, plus RHST, JCING, JCOP, JCOPS, ATDAN, etc., everything except the PFAL book itself, which is no longer available.
Didn't ask when the change came about, I just assumed it was very recent.
Thanks Oldiesman. I was getting ready to call tomorrow.
I wouldn’t be surprised if there were many reasons tugging at the BOD to reverse the Craig Era error of shutting the bookstore off to the “non faithful.†I’d like to think the nobler of the reasons were dominant.
So I see this as two positive moves by the BOD in 6 months time: first the request to post, and now the fall of the wall around the bookstore.
If my theory of noble intentions is correct, what positive move might WE make to encourage their momentum?
This new development is, in fact, both exhilerating and joyous for many many people I'm sure. The Way Internationale Carnivale, answering their phones, answering simple questions, and actually selling books to - not just the Holy Roller Disciples, but anyone, average people, perhaps even people who can't read but just want them for the pictures.
Wow. What next?
Maybe next, if everyone prays REALLY HARD, they'll actually let the staffers have antennaes for their TV's so they can watch the Lima news.
(smack!) Stop it socks! Baby steps! Baby STEPS!!!!
quote:If my theory of noble intentions is correct, what positive move might WE make to encourage their momentum?
Something to think about.
Why change tactics? We should keep doing what we're doing: sharing our histories while conducting honest/vigorous debates about doctrine and practice.
If we can do anything, we can praise them for doing the right thing and opening their bookstore to the public, just like any other church would do. Secrecy only breeds speculation, rumor and innuendo. If TWI's books are not for sale, and if TWI will only share its books with members, then the only people who will be able to say anything about TWI's books publicly are those who are critical of them.
quote: So I see this as two positive moves by the BOD in 6 months time: first the request to post, and now the fall of the wall around the bookstore.
Well -- at least it is opened. Secrecy does breed distrust/ speculation, whatever -- and now with it "out in the open", a whole lot of more folks can see where they are coming from. -->
Oldies says they said that there is no PFAL book for sale. Guess you're right Mike -- JC has all available copies, so He can teach from one, and pass the others out at the "gathering". :D-->
Probably happened because of advice from their lawyers.
Lets see if they allow ex way believers and especially ex-Corps into their STS or allow them to come visit friends on staff or family members. How about allowing an ex-believer to attend a fellowship without being a member?
They ought to, but I wouldn't hold my breath expecting that. Yeah, I can see them letting John (CFF) S. visiting his long time staff brother at grounds and allowing them to attend a STS on a Sunday afternoon.
"Membership" is declining as well as the associated ABS. Lawsiuts are chiping away at the cash reserves. The kids are leaving. It is obvious that what they have been doing for the last 10 years is not working.
Bookstore revenue is insignificant to TWI in the whole scope of things, but ABS is not.
So, they open the bookstore to everyone and sell Wierwille's old wineskins. Now who will buy them? Wierwerille fans, loners and those that long for the good old days of pre- Martindale TWI. And where are these folks? In the offshooots and doing it alone. But they are out there. Quite a few I imagine. And quite a few did not want to leave TWI when they got the boot.
So why not open the bookstore and sell them the books they love. Create a making list. Promote yourself as changed and nicer. Enter the New And Improved TWI!
We are nicer now, and see we are bringing back the good old days. Come back and fellowship with us! We forgive you! (See how nice we are now?)
Let's see, (assuming 30,000 annual income) each person they could get back would mean about 4,500 per year in ABS plus revenue from any classes they take. So one thousand people back in the fold would mean about 4.5 million in ABS each year. That will buy an awful lot of familia.
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smurfette
Goey...
I won't hold my breath either. I got the impression that they gave away all the old copies of PFAL.
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Cherished Child
Has anyone actually verified the rumor that The Way International Bookstore is now "open to the public"? What exactly does "open to the public" mean---that anyone can mail in a bookstore order with a check and they'll send you the desired product? Or can any old Joe (or Greasespotter) drive up to Headquarters, walk into the bookstore, and purchase whatever they desire? I somehow have a hard time believing that TWI is willing to relax the very tight control they have historically excercised over ALL their materials. Why would they suddenly lift their distribution restrictions after all these years?
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gladtobeout
cherished child
Yes, I also would like to hear this rumor confirmed. Actually, if they are open to the public, I would like for them to announce it on greasespot. We have posed many questions for them and I would like them to answer. I know that it takes a group that is honest to come forward with those anwers. We'll have to wait and see if they come forward and respond. Action speaks louder than words. IMHO
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Nottawayfer
Anybody could buy a Way Mag subscription or a SNS subscription all along, even if they were marked and avoided. It was just other bookstore items that were not made available to those of us outside their precious household.
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Nottawayfer
ps: they did give away all of the pfal books a few years back--martinpuke was still around. I'm sure they did it because of his class. But they may have printed them again after they started focusing on pfal a few years ago.
If anybody wants to know for sure, why don't you just call and ask for the bookstore and place an order? If they don't sell to those who are not "active", then they will let you know.
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pjroberge
They didn't even act in a business like manner and acknowledge the letter signed for by Ramona B.
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bowtwi
I wasn't allowed to renew my subscription to either the mag or the SNS tapes back in '94 after I was M&A'd. My check was returned to me.
I used to want to read Mrs. Wierwille's book, but it's probably not really even her story, but what the bod approved being called her story so I won't even try to order one.
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ChasUFarley
Paw & Oakie --
Y'all know it's ol' Chas who hangs the moon...
(_!_)
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ChasUFarley
A side note....
PJ - That's the same Ramona who's named in the Allen's lawsuit...
(She worked switchboard, if memory serves me.)
.........................
Back to the thread...
Y'all --
I seriously doubt this to be true about the book store being open. You know if it is true they're only going to let people have certain things "until you've had the class..."
I mean really... Do you expect they'd give just anyone carte blanc with their materials?
...And a return of PFAL? Be real! Would they re-do it? Maybe but what I find more interesting in examining this whole thing is that RFR has done little/nothing to place her mark on the ministry.
Why hasn't she written a book? Or filmed a class? Or done a teaching tour? Or something? Anything? She certainly has an ego... What's she doing to make her mark?
It will be interesting to see this story confirmed...
ROYAL GORGE -- you say your source is a good one...? Define "good".
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houseisarockin
bowtwi, I have the book and will share a portion of the preface. Before doing so for those who have not read the book it was done in partnership with her daughter KWM. And she was asked to write it by HA.
The idea of writing my husband's biography didn't originate with me. I was asked to do it. Previously when a biography was mentioned, I had thought I would be able to contribute to one. I was very aware that no one else could accurately relate Dr. W's life without my input. He and I were raised in the same community and lived much of our lives together. I felt I knew his life better than anyone else and therefore could reconstruct it most fully and authentically. Thus when I was asked to write a biography of Dr. W, I became thankful to God for the privilege.
I chose to begin this book with the historical background of the W family, giving the context into which Dr. W was born. The biography then continues through his school years, his two pastorates, the radio broadcast ministry, our seven-month foreign teaching tour, his resignation from the denomination, the launching of The W Ministry on an independent basis, and moving The W Headquarters to NK, **. In other words, this book covers Dr. W's life from 1916-1961. I plan to continue his life's story from 1961 to 1985 in a second volume.
In considering how to tell Dr. W's life story, I certainly didn't want to interpret or analyze him or compare him to any Bible saint. I set out to chronicle his actions and his own words-to let them speak for him. Of course I, as the author, had to decide what to include in the story and what to leave out, otherwise this work would be way too long.
There was no second volume completed.
Copyright 1996 by TWI
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bowtwi
wow house, thanks so much! I somehow thought it was MRS. W's story. I see it's his story through her eyes. I should have known.
That was in the works when I was still in, over 10 years ago. Too bad volume II never got written. Maybe that would have been Mrs. W's story.
I personally have less than zero desire to spend money to read more about Victor Wierwille.
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houseisarockin
Your welcome, but I don't think she would have written a book about herself. IMO of course.
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oldiesman
I just got off the phone with the bookstore, and yes, they told me that all the books and everything else that's available in the bookstore is currently open to the public.
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Hope R.
OM - thanks. Glad you called and confirmed.
Did they ask you for your name? Where you lived? Your current TWI status? Just curious.
Did you happen to also ask when this policy came about?
Just wondering...
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oldiesman
I asked them if the rumor on the internet was true, that bookstore items are now available to former believers? She said, "where did you hear that from"? I responded "Greasespot Cafe". She said, yes, it's true, the bookstore is now open to former believers ... She didn't ask my name or location, and I told her I was a "former believer".
Also, she told me they have everything in stock in the PFAL series, books 1-5, all the collaterals, plus RHST, JCING, JCOP, JCOPS, ATDAN, etc., everything except the PFAL book itself, which is no longer available.
Didn't ask when the change came about, I just assumed it was very recent.
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Ham
I think that maybe, they saw what kind of prices the old stuff was drawing on E-Bay. Probably enraged them enough to do something about it..
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Mike
Thanks Oldiesman. I was getting ready to call tomorrow.
I wouldn’t be surprised if there were many reasons tugging at the BOD to reverse the Craig Era error of shutting the bookstore off to the “non faithful.†I’d like to think the nobler of the reasons were dominant.
So I see this as two positive moves by the BOD in 6 months time: first the request to post, and now the fall of the wall around the bookstore.
If my theory of noble intentions is correct, what positive move might WE make to encourage their momentum?
Something to think about.
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socks
This new development is, in fact, both exhilerating and joyous for many many people I'm sure. The Way Internationale Carnivale, answering their phones, answering simple questions, and actually selling books to - not just the Holy Roller Disciples, but anyone, average people, perhaps even people who can't read but just want them for the pictures.
Wow. What next?
Maybe next, if everyone prays REALLY HARD, they'll actually let the staffers have antennaes for their TV's so they can watch the Lima news.
(smack!) Stop it socks! Baby steps! Baby STEPS!!!!
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Raf
Why change tactics? We should keep doing what we're doing: sharing our histories while conducting honest/vigorous debates about doctrine and practice.
If we can do anything, we can praise them for doing the right thing and opening their bookstore to the public, just like any other church would do. Secrecy only breeds speculation, rumor and innuendo. If TWI's books are not for sale, and if TWI will only share its books with members, then the only people who will be able to say anything about TWI's books publicly are those who are critical of them.
So Bravo to TWI for opening the bookstore.
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dmiller
Well -- at least it is opened. Secrecy does breed distrust/ speculation, whatever -- and now with it "out in the open", a whole lot of more folks can see where they are coming from.
-->
Oldies says they said that there is no PFAL book for sale. Guess you're right Mike -- JC has all available copies, so He can teach from one, and pass the others out at the "gathering".
:D-->
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ChasUFarley
Hey Socks... we had more channels in lil' ol' NK than I have now with cable in NH....
At least when I was there... and there were lots of sports channels. Go figure.
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ex10
well, this news gives me hope that there are perhaps, thinking humans left in the cult.
:)-->
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igotout
Probably happened because of advice from their lawyers.
Lets see if they allow ex way believers and especially ex-Corps into their STS or allow them to come visit friends on staff or family members. How about allowing an ex-believer to attend a fellowship without being a member?
They ought to, but I wouldn't hold my breath expecting that. Yeah, I can see them letting John (CFF) S. visiting his long time staff brother at grounds and allowing them to attend a STS on a Sunday afternoon.
What's that phrase about a cold day in hell?
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Goey
Yep, they are thinking alright.
"Membership" is declining as well as the associated ABS. Lawsiuts are chiping away at the cash reserves. The kids are leaving. It is obvious that what they have been doing for the last 10 years is not working.
Bookstore revenue is insignificant to TWI in the whole scope of things, but ABS is not.
So, they open the bookstore to everyone and sell Wierwille's old wineskins. Now who will buy them? Wierwerille fans, loners and those that long for the good old days of pre- Martindale TWI. And where are these folks? In the offshooots and doing it alone. But they are out there. Quite a few I imagine. And quite a few did not want to leave TWI when they got the boot.
So why not open the bookstore and sell them the books they love. Create a making list. Promote yourself as changed and nicer. Enter the New And Improved TWI!
We are nicer now, and see we are bringing back the good old days. Come back and fellowship with us! We forgive you! (See how nice we are now?)
Let's see, (assuming 30,000 annual income) each person they could get back would mean about 4,500 per year in ABS plus revenue from any classes they take. So one thousand people back in the fold would mean about 4.5 million in ABS each year. That will buy an awful lot of familia.
Just a thought.
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