I was always of the impression that "mark and avoid" or "disfellowshipping" or whatever the particular movement calls it.. had the same root aim. Pretty much the same aim as is achieved by moving your church into the Guyana jungle.
The control of flow of information.
Being obsessed with what may enter into that spongelike brain we all possess, and not wanting anything going into your brain other than what they spew forth, the church leaders naturally see the danger in the passing of information thru external association.
And what information could be less desirable than that which an excommunicated member may have to offer.
In the Jaydubs,People dont get "disfellowshipped" for sinning. They get disfellowshipped for failing to display sufficient "penitence". This means they are not under church control any longer. This means there is danger they may taint the congregation with their "wicked thinking".
So Disfellowshipping isnt designed to assist the DFd,after all, noone TALKS to the DFd, not even their own family.
Its designed to "protect" the sheep from "evil influence".
quote:Rom 16:17, 18: Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.
According to these verses those WE should have Marked and Avoided TWI's leadership (BOD and cronies) long before they ever implemented the practice.
There is one profit in Mark & Avoid (and my tounge is only half-way in my cheek when I say this...) -
Some of us were on the fence - questioning - wondering - disillusioned - not very happy with the turn TWI had taken over the years. When we got the boot,it actually helped us take that final step into leaving for good.
I'd been in TWI for many years and most of my friends were gone, so that wasn't holding me there, neither were the teachings or the former MOG's leadership. It was easy for me to leave, but some people need that extra push to get out the door. M&A helped them break the tie that bound them to TWI. For some folks - it was a relief!
Well ala pro, the practise of shunning is a most sore point with many that I have known. A painful practise. Unfortunately in some sects the practise is most extreme and much injury caused in the bonds between kin.
Often, once you leave the sect and try to reestablish bonds with your estranged family, the damage is too deep.
The profit of Mark and Avoid is that the one marked and avoided has the last laugh, if the shoe fits.
Isa 66:5 Hear the word of the LORD, ye that tremble at his word; Your brethren that hated you, that cast you out for my name's sake, said, Let the LORD be glorified: but he shall appear to your joy, and they shall be ashamed. (KJV)
Lets not forget those that were only slightly M&Aed. They called it "probation". It was usually used on corpes types. It had all the same attributes of being M&Aed but you could still get the tapes and magazines and were expected to get your **** together by a certain time, like say 6 months.
My parents had this happen twice and they are still in. They just kept coming back for more....probably partialy because my brother and I were still in. I was not to contact them or anything.
The second time I was teporaily living with them after my old roommate was M&Aed. The LC called up and said LCM said any corps allumni (that was corps that was dropped from active statis) that was not at least running a fellowship or an assistant was to be dropped from any corps status and put on probation. Just because he was ....ed and having a bad day. The LC told me that from my mother's immidiate questions about keeping in touch with us kids showed him she was not keeping God first and therefore we were not to speak with them.
Or maybe that was the first time, I don't know.
But my point is....
they are still in. they were basically M&A untill they conformed. This had to have a terrible effect on their lives. I know it did mine. All they ever wanted to do is lead people and be corps. They still do. I think those 2 M&A experiences only strengthened the hold tWI has on their lives.
I know at the time it scared the **** out of me...fear of being M&Aed. We were told not to fear being kicked out but to just focus on love and "doing the Word". Or do as we say and conform .
MZ, I completely understand your question and it's one I ask all the time. The question I've started asking is, does this person really love me? If they do, then shouldn't it be unconditional? If they will no longer love me or fully share with me should I leave TWI, then is it real love and is it it then worth fighting for?
Lindy, that's horrible! I'm so sorry for you and your parents. They must be miserably confused. Loving their kids, but afraid to confront how uncomfortable the doubts about TWI are in their mind.
They must have doubts and confusion. I know some of my family members who have been mistreated like this are, but they work very hard at convincing themselves that they are being selfish and emotional because TWI who taught them the Word and that's who they should be loyal to.
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Refiner
I was always of the impression that "mark and avoid" or "disfellowshipping" or whatever the particular movement calls it.. had the same root aim. Pretty much the same aim as is achieved by moving your church into the Guyana jungle.
The control of flow of information.
Being obsessed with what may enter into that spongelike brain we all possess, and not wanting anything going into your brain other than what they spew forth, the church leaders naturally see the danger in the passing of information thru external association.
And what information could be less desirable than that which an excommunicated member may have to offer.
Especially if theyve done their history research.
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Refiner
In the Jaydubs,People dont get "disfellowshipped" for sinning. They get disfellowshipped for failing to display sufficient "penitence". This means they are not under church control any longer. This means there is danger they may taint the congregation with their "wicked thinking".
So Disfellowshipping isnt designed to assist the DFd,after all, noone TALKS to the DFd, not even their own family.
Its designed to "protect" the sheep from "evil influence".
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Goey
According to these verses those WE should have Marked and Avoided TWI's leadership (BOD and cronies) long before they ever implemented the practice.
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Hope R.
There is one profit in Mark & Avoid (and my tounge is only half-way in my cheek when I say this...) -
Some of us were on the fence - questioning - wondering - disillusioned - not very happy with the turn TWI had taken over the years. When we got the boot,it actually helped us take that final step into leaving for good.
I'd been in TWI for many years and most of my friends were gone, so that wasn't holding me there, neither were the teachings or the former MOG's leadership. It was easy for me to leave, but some people need that extra push to get out the door. M&A helped them break the tie that bound them to TWI. For some folks - it was a relief!
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A la prochaine
Refiner,
I did not see my sister for over 9 yrs. She lived 30 miles away. She was 'IN' and I was 'OUT'!
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Refiner
Well ala pro, the practise of shunning is a most sore point with many that I have known. A painful practise. Unfortunately in some sects the practise is most extreme and much injury caused in the bonds between kin.
Often, once you leave the sect and try to reestablish bonds with your estranged family, the damage is too deep.
They cannot be truly restored.
This is what I have personally found anyway.
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cdbloch
The profit of Mark and Avoid is that the one marked and avoided has the last laugh, if the shoe fits.
Isa 66:5 Hear the word of the LORD, ye that tremble at his word; Your brethren that hated you, that cast you out for my name's sake, said, Let the LORD be glorified: but he shall appear to your joy, and they shall be ashamed. (KJV)
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lindyhopper
Lets not forget those that were only slightly M&Aed. They called it "probation". It was usually used on corpes types. It had all the same attributes of being M&Aed but you could still get the tapes and magazines and were expected to get your **** together by a certain time, like say 6 months.
My parents had this happen twice and they are still in. They just kept coming back for more....probably partialy because my brother and I were still in. I was not to contact them or anything.
The second time I was teporaily living with them after my old roommate was M&Aed. The LC called up and said LCM said any corps allumni (that was corps that was dropped from active statis) that was not at least running a fellowship or an assistant was to be dropped from any corps status and put on probation. Just because he was ....ed and having a bad day. The LC told me that from my mother's immidiate questions about keeping in touch with us kids showed him she was not keeping God first and therefore we were not to speak with them.
Or maybe that was the first time, I don't know.
But my point is....
they are still in. they were basically M&A untill they conformed. This had to have a terrible effect on their lives. I know it did mine. All they ever wanted to do is lead people and be corps. They still do. I think those 2 M&A experiences only strengthened the hold tWI has on their lives.
I know at the time it scared the **** out of me...fear of being M&Aed. We were told not to fear being kicked out but to just focus on love and "doing the Word". Or do as we say and conform .
It is not always a happy ending for those M&Aed.
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WaywardWayfer
MZ, I completely understand your question and it's one I ask all the time. The question I've started asking is, does this person really love me? If they do, then shouldn't it be unconditional? If they will no longer love me or fully share with me should I leave TWI, then is it real love and is it it then worth fighting for?
I don't know. I'm still trying to decide.
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WaywardWayfer
Lindy, that's horrible! I'm so sorry for you and your parents. They must be miserably confused. Loving their kids, but afraid to confront how uncomfortable the doubts about TWI are in their mind.
They must have doubts and confusion. I know some of my family members who have been mistreated like this are, but they work very hard at convincing themselves that they are being selfish and emotional because TWI who taught them the Word and that's who they should be loyal to.
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