Welcome wonder1, I hope you find what you are looking for at the caf?I know I have- myself.
In reference to your subject as to “the ministry” being perfect, and your statement that no one is perfect. I think this why my wife and I were TOLD TO LEAVE (not by our own choice- not because we felt we were hurt by anyone). Let me explain:
This was 1995-1996 and LCM’s new Way of Abundance and Power class had just been released. He had declared that the Word had gone over the World, and that he was going to lead the faithful in the household into the Promised Land of the Prevailing Word. He had also made references in teachings to how when Israel crossed over into the Promised Land there was not a weak kneed Israelite who crossed over. Perhaps he was pointing out how God had protected strengthened and healed all those who crossed over, but the way it was received by local leadership and the rest of the believers in Atlanta that only those who constantly and indefatigably strove to live up to the STANDARD OF THE WORD would be allowed to “Cross Over”. In summary the Ministry was Perfect and you had be prepared to become perfect too or else. (Any one else remember that mind set in TWI at that time?)
Anyhow here was my situation: My wife, who I had met and married in the ministry in 1986-1987 (the start of the fog years) was a diabetic and she had been since she was less than two. Now in her forties she had the kinds of deterioration that comes from long term diabetes, including kidney failure and deterioration in her central nervous system. (in 1997 a CAT scan revealed that he brain had literally shrunk and had many small scars –typical for her long term diabetes) When I brought her to Twig I had to lead her in and sometimes use a wheelchair. While she sat her eyes would close and she would relax- she was awake and could repeat every word that was spoken but she was scolded for nodding off during the teachings. I worked and spent an hour in the morning and another each evening setting up her dialysis equipment. I cooked, I cleaned as much as possible, I helped her bathe, did laundry you name it. I did the best I could but frankly I was overwhelmed and either did not realize it or would not admit it to myself or anyone else.
I could not keep the house clean enough to satisfy leadership. The bathroom needed repairs- a shower needed re-tiling so I did that. I hired people to come clean- but they did not clean well enough. Where were the rest of the household you may ask? I wonder too, wonder1 since in the past believers were always willing to help and watched out for each other, but not this time. Why wasn’t leadership spiritually aware of my wife’s physical/neurological problem? I don’t blame them but if the ministry was perfect as I believed at the time and thus its branch and limb coordinators were as close to perfect as humanly possible why did they miss it?
On to our last Twig- the branch coordinator was a special guest. I guess you could say we were the opening act. Our twig coordinator explained to us that I was not doing all I needed to remain strong in the household- basically I could not keep up with the house. The branch coordinator asked if we wanted to stay in the ministry and we both stated emphatically YES! He then said that if we had not said that he would have told us to leave and it would have been “Katie bar the door” (did he mean we would be Mark & Avoid? - I think so). He then asked us if we were willing to do what it would take to stay. I replied I’m not sure that it was possible and planned on explaining why since my wife and I were already doing all we could. (As you said wonder1 nobody’s perfect and we were about as perfect as we could be at the time- it just wasn’t perfect enough). I did not get the chance to say anything, he just told us to leave.
From then on my Wife and I staid away from believers and ex believers living in our own little world believing that the ministry was perfect, and we weren’t. We believed it wasn’t anyone’s fault but our own. When my wife died in December of 2000, we knew nothing of LCM’s adultery and his stepping down. We did not know then as I do now that a wonderful nurse who knew us from the ministry did not make herself know to us because she thought we were still “innies” since she had left before we were kicked out.
This post is longer and more involved than I had intended but I needed to say it all now for myself, Wonder1- Its one of the great things about GSC, it is a place to vent.
Let me get to my point- At the time I left I believed and I also believe that the collective thinking within the ministry was that it was perfect and getting even more perfect therefore my wife and I were not perfect (enough) to be allowed to stay. I did not then nor I do I today blame those who were involved with us when we left. My conclusion is that the quest for perfection in the ministry magnified its imperfection and the imperfection of its leaders..
However this belief in the ministries perfection left me in an exquisitely painful limbo until mid 2003 when I began to look around on the internet to see what was going on with TWI since I yearned to go back but feared the possible pain of being kicked out again more than the hollow ache of being alone. Now I know that the ministry was not perfect and its leaders weren’t either. I am beginning to move on.
I hope GSC and its regulars help you with your growth and healing (if you needed it) also.
What happened in your situation was tragic indeed! How could anyone turn their back and life on someone in need? People can sometimes be our nightmares and the tragic thing is that those people were not held accountable!
Your initial post, as well as another thread that you started implied that many of us who left were overreacting by leaving "the ministry", and expecting it to be perfect and shouldn't continue to talk about it, but should just move on. (I'm paraphrasing, btw)
After reading the replies, do you still hold the same opinion?
Wonder1, are you getting anything out of this forum here? The reason is that there has been a number of posts here that have been both truthful and heart felt? Have you learned anything from them?
Another thing, do you know what a ministry is? A ministry from a biblical perspective is suppose to involve the service of people first and foremost. This can be serving the word of God, but it can also be serving other basic needs such as food and other necessities. There are all sorts of ministries and all sorts of people carrying these out from various groups with people from diverse walks of life. Are you aware of this? Or is your ministry arrogant enough to call itself the chosen few while excluding others as vital and close to God's heart?
Hmmm...wonderwon, some people that want nothing to do with the ministry have other reasons besides hurt. Doctrine, for one. If you disagree strongly with what the Way teaches in one or more area. Besides the tripe that Craig Martindale came up with the last few years of his residency at the Way they pretty much haven't grown in what they've taught or believe for many years. They hold strongly to the idea that they have it all wrapped up in the basic precepts of the original PFAL class. Add to that the muddled mess of what LCM came up with - prevailing in the promised land, "WOW" being accomplished, etc. etc. and they're not much good for anything to a person that really wants to know Christ and understand the bible in a constructive way.
I don't really agree with you that when we get hurt we don't make change as a result. If an employer is dishonest, you'd be advised to quit if there's nothing you can do to change it. Better to quit than be a party to the dishonesty. If a marriage partner is abusive and won't stop or get help, you'd be advised to get away from them. Unless you like being abused or figure you'll put up with it for one reason or another - the kids, the house, the family, etc. Those can be pretty sorry situations for the people that get stuck in them.
We all hurt each other. When we make a practice of it, rationalize it and defend it and continue it, something's wrong.
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wonder1
What happened in your situation was tragic indeed! How could anyone turn their back and life on someone in need? People can sometimes be our nightmares and the tragic thing is that those people were not held accountable!
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Goey
Yes, and those people as well as those who did not hold them accountable make up "the ministry".
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Oakspear
Okay wonder, so you're still here.
Your initial post, as well as another thread that you started implied that many of us who left were overreacting by leaving "the ministry", and expecting it to be perfect and shouldn't continue to talk about it, but should just move on. (I'm paraphrasing, btw)
After reading the replies, do you still hold the same opinion?
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Mark Sanguinetti
Wonder1, are you getting anything out of this forum here? The reason is that there has been a number of posts here that have been both truthful and heart felt? Have you learned anything from them?
Another thing, do you know what a ministry is? A ministry from a biblical perspective is suppose to involve the service of people first and foremost. This can be serving the word of God, but it can also be serving other basic needs such as food and other necessities. There are all sorts of ministries and all sorts of people carrying these out from various groups with people from diverse walks of life. Are you aware of this? Or is your ministry arrogant enough to call itself the chosen few while excluding others as vital and close to God's heart?
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socks
Hmmm...wonderwon, some people that want nothing to do with the ministry have other reasons besides hurt. Doctrine, for one. If you disagree strongly with what the Way teaches in one or more area. Besides the tripe that Craig Martindale came up with the last few years of his residency at the Way they pretty much haven't grown in what they've taught or believe for many years. They hold strongly to the idea that they have it all wrapped up in the basic precepts of the original PFAL class. Add to that the muddled mess of what LCM came up with - prevailing in the promised land, "WOW" being accomplished, etc. etc. and they're not much good for anything to a person that really wants to know Christ and understand the bible in a constructive way.
I don't really agree with you that when we get hurt we don't make change as a result. If an employer is dishonest, you'd be advised to quit if there's nothing you can do to change it. Better to quit than be a party to the dishonesty. If a marriage partner is abusive and won't stop or get help, you'd be advised to get away from them. Unless you like being abused or figure you'll put up with it for one reason or another - the kids, the house, the family, etc. Those can be pretty sorry situations for the people that get stuck in them.
We all hurt each other. When we make a practice of it, rationalize it and defend it and continue it, something's wrong.
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