I was told not to invite my Jewish co-worker and friend to fellowship. My HFC went so far as to say in his presence that he was going to hell because he didn't believe Jesus was the son of God.
It was also strongly suggested to me that I need not waste my time being friends with him and I sure as hell shouldn't be "fully sharing" with him because we can't trust "empties".
I find it very hard to believe that that's TWI's current policy. I'm not doubting your experience, but is it possible that you had a prejudiced person somewhere in the mix?
Did you happen to take this to a higher level? I would have.
It just doesn't make sense if they want new recruits. How are people going to believe, if they can't hear about it but are interested in what TWI is teaching about Jesus and Christianity?
This was actually about 6 years ago and it was Way Corps who told me. The only place to go from there was the Region Coordinator.
I've gone to a higher level before about something a WC person did or said and I was the one who got reamed and yelled at. Maybe it wasn't like that when you were in, but WC will protect WC at any cost.
There's no point in going higher. It's been proven too many times to count by too many people to mention. The WC does no wrong and if you aren't WC don't even think about pointing it out.
Today would I get the same response? I don't know. They pretend to be all "warm and fuzzy" these days, but it's sort of like watching Stepford Wives. They don't really mean it and if someone or something crosses them the claws come out.
They still slam other churches and religions, they just smile while they do it and it's sometimes very subtle, but they haven't changed. They talk about people outside of TWI with pity in their voice and concern for their well-being (because they are outside the walls of Zion). They don't openly discourage people from "speaking the word" to lower class people with no teeth, education, cars or money, but it is very clear that they do not want these people in their homes and in their ministry.
Things "appear" to have changed, but really the only thing that's changed is how they go about enforcing the unwritten laws of TWI.
"They don't openly discourage people from "speaking the word" to lower class people with no teeth, education, cars or money, but it is very clear that they do not want these people in their homes and in their ministry."
I disagree. We were told in the 90s to ONLY go to the middle class. There were teachings by LCM himself on this. He compared it to Paul's revelation to go to to Macedonia in Acts 16:9. Afterwards, us TCs were given instructions on going door-to-door witnessing ONLY in areas that appeared to be "middle class."
JT, you are absolutely correct. LCM spent no small amount of time and spittle explaining how the people Paul and the apostles witnessed to in the epistles were at minimum upper middle class folks and that should be our standard.
The direction I'm talking about above is TWI III. The new and improved whited sepulchre (sp?) of a ministry.
"They don't openly discourage people from "speaking the word" to lower class people with no teeth, education, cars or money, but it is very clear that they do not want these people in their homes and in their ministry."
What hypocrites! Minus the teeth part, that describes most of the people I knew in TWI-2! No money, no education (unless they had it before they came) old beat-up cars, etc. Only enough cash to pay for some clothes and rent a house so you looked prosperous. No savings, no retirement plan, etc.
In that case, they had better leave out the majority of those coming to fellowship anyway, including all the Way Corpse, because, with the exception of the BOD, pert near all of them are living around the poverty level of income, ... right?
Was anyone ever turned away from going wow or corps or any other program, because they were . . . Jewish?
Of all the stupid questions I've seen posted, this one really takes the cake.
If a person was proclaiming himself Jewish, what business would he have going WOW or corps or anything?
First of all, how we got from Patton into this...oh well.
Being Jewish can refer to race or religion. Sure, there is debate about this matter, but when the holocaust id referred to, it is usually in the context of race. Hitler's purification theory was not primarily based on religious belief, as if Jewish people who declared themselves Christian would be exempt from his solution.
There were certainly people of Jewish decent in TWI and involved in the WOW program and corps. Oldies' question is certainly a legitimate one, especially since his question obviously referred to race, having asked about being Black or Jewish. The Black part was left out in the quote.
To question the matter as Steve did is certainly not unreasonable. But to refer to Oldies' question as not just a "stupid question", but as the one that "takes the cake" is IMO.
"First of all, how we got from Patton into this...oh well."
LOL! I was thinking the same thing.
I started this thread and feel it's actually applicable. To me, it's just another example of one person trying to "command" his troops to follow his thinking.
Ok, so maybe it wasn't exactly what I had in mind but... :-)
Well, my familiarity with the original subject relates to my already mentioned Indy and corps lightbearers buddy. I was his "backstage assistant" when he did it. He repeated it later that year, then also at the ROA. Anyone remember at ROA 1978, I think it was before it started when the corps were there, an announcement requesting army type costume items? He didn't have the same stuff he did it atEmporia with, for reasons I can't remember.
I agree wholeheartedly with the Invisible Dan...Mr. Wierwille was more patterned after Hitler than anyone else I can think of.
Remember how he pushed "The myth of the six million" and other fascist writings? I heard him say that Hitler had some "pretty good ideas" and "people didn't appreciate his leadership qualities from a historical perspective".
Veepee loved the military analogies...that's one of the reasons that he was so upset at lcm's AOS. teachings. Martindale replaced the military comparisons with athletic terms. Old Vic never passed up an opprotunity to have military wafers dress up in full uniform for him and even salute him!!! He loved all the flag waving pomp...I'm surprised he didn't make the corps goosestep.
I heard mr.wierwille say those very same things as well...
It was my best friend to whom VP informed her "Hitler had the right idea" about the jews - i.e., get rid of them. She was stunned.<BR><BR>
VP was a white supremist. He was a member of the Liberty Lobby. The Liberty Lobby is a front in Washington D.C. for America's white supremicst, conspiracy groups. He got their newsletter, the Spotlight, and called into their "hotlines." <BR><BR>
Where do you think all of VP's inside info on the illuminati, Trilateral Commission, Rothschild banking, Council of Foreign Affairs - all the "secret" conspiracy stuff VP shared at the advanced class came from? Right from the Liberty Lobby.
I still have my "Secret Constitution" he passed out to all of us 7th corps. On the inside of the back page is a form to subscribe to the Spotlight, which is their magazine.
Remember in '76 we saved the country from a crisis? He was listening to the hotline.
Remember he had the "inside" info on the Jim Jones Koolaid suicide - that it was really a CIA plot - that too came from his hotline.
Remember when Bob Richardson, the olympic champion and Wheatie box star came and spent and afternoon and talked to the WC at corps week? Normally if someone well known went to fellowship, we were all made aware. Here comes this famous guy out of the blue to talk. Well, Bob was the Populist Party candidate for US president that year (the Populist Party is the Liberty Lobby's party). Kind of bold having the white supremist candidate come talk to us. He had to have some pull, or financial clout to get Bob out into a cornfield.
Have you ever seen the outline of Hitler's Nazi Youth program - how to train the young master race? I have. The WC was incredibly similar.
VP would have made a wonderful, loyal nazi, had he lived in another place and time.
I discussed this also with R.D. He told me VP had him almost believing all jews were "Zionist pigs." VP, as Danny pointed out, did sell those books, I read them. They were on sale in the bookstore for all to read. By the way, guess who publishes them? Again, the Liberty Lobby press. I forget what name it goes by. there's only one place you can get those particular books.
Whether you agree or not, VP was an admirer of Hitler. Whether you agree or not, VP thought Hitler had the right idea concerning the jews. Whether you agree or not, he was a white supremist.
One of his top right hand motorcoach driver aides told me he used the "hotline" quite a bit. So did another staffer close to him. I think Liberty Lobby updated the hotline weekly.
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oldiesman
Did you ever hear of or witness an instance where someone was turned away because they were black or Jewish?
Homosexuals were turned away in the 1990's, as we all know.
Was anyone ever turned away from going wow or corps or any other program, because they were black or Jewish?
If you invited a black or Jew even now, would they be turned away?
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WaywardWayfer
I was told not to invite my Jewish co-worker and friend to fellowship. My HFC went so far as to say in his presence that he was going to hell because he didn't believe Jesus was the son of God.
It was also strongly suggested to me that I need not waste my time being friends with him and I sure as hell shouldn't be "fully sharing" with him because we can't trust "empties".
Is that good enough for you, OM?
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oldiesman
I find it very hard to believe that that's TWI's current policy. I'm not doubting your experience, but is it possible that you had a prejudiced person somewhere in the mix?
Did you happen to take this to a higher level? I would have.
It just doesn't make sense if they want new recruits. How are people going to believe, if they can't hear about it but are interested in what TWI is teaching about Jesus and Christianity?
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Steve!
Of all the stupid questions I've seen posted, this one really takes the cake.
If a person was proclaiming himself Jewish, what business would he have going WOW or corps or anything?
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WaywardWayfer
This was actually about 6 years ago and it was Way Corps who told me. The only place to go from there was the Region Coordinator.
I've gone to a higher level before about something a WC person did or said and I was the one who got reamed and yelled at. Maybe it wasn't like that when you were in, but WC will protect WC at any cost.
There's no point in going higher. It's been proven too many times to count by too many people to mention. The WC does no wrong and if you aren't WC don't even think about pointing it out.
Today would I get the same response? I don't know. They pretend to be all "warm and fuzzy" these days, but it's sort of like watching Stepford Wives. They don't really mean it and if someone or something crosses them the claws come out.
They still slam other churches and religions, they just smile while they do it and it's sometimes very subtle, but they haven't changed. They talk about people outside of TWI with pity in their voice and concern for their well-being (because they are outside the walls of Zion). They don't openly discourage people from "speaking the word" to lower class people with no teeth, education, cars or money, but it is very clear that they do not want these people in their homes and in their ministry.
Things "appear" to have changed, but really the only thing that's changed is how they go about enforcing the unwritten laws of TWI.
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JustThinking
WW Quote:
"They don't openly discourage people from "speaking the word" to lower class people with no teeth, education, cars or money, but it is very clear that they do not want these people in their homes and in their ministry."
I disagree. We were told in the 90s to ONLY go to the middle class. There were teachings by LCM himself on this. He compared it to Paul's revelation to go to to Macedonia in Acts 16:9. Afterwards, us TCs were given instructions on going door-to-door witnessing ONLY in areas that appeared to be "middle class."
JT
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WaywardWayfer
JT, you are absolutely correct. LCM spent no small amount of time and spittle explaining how the people Paul and the apostles witnessed to in the epistles were at minimum upper middle class folks and that should be our standard.
The direction I'm talking about above is TWI III. The new and improved whited sepulchre (sp?) of a ministry.
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JustThinking
WW,
Sorry, I misunderstood. Did they change this officially or was like so many other bad decisions that just sort of change without notice?
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imbus
I'm glad God is no respecter of persons or belief systems, wwweeewww!
:D-->
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JustThinking
WW quote:
"They don't openly discourage people from "speaking the word" to lower class people with no teeth, education, cars or money, but it is very clear that they do not want these people in their homes and in their ministry."
What hypocrites! Minus the teeth part, that describes most of the people I knew in TWI-2! No money, no education (unless they had it before they came) old beat-up cars, etc. Only enough cash to pay for some clothes and rent a house so you looked prosperous. No savings, no retirement plan, etc.
JT
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GarthP2000
In that case, they had better leave out the majority of those coming to fellowship anyway, including all the Way Corpse, because, with the exception of the BOD, pert near all of them are living around the poverty level of income, ... right?
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Lifted Up
First of all, how we got from Patton into this...oh well.
Being Jewish can refer to race or religion. Sure, there is debate about this matter, but when the holocaust id referred to, it is usually in the context of race. Hitler's purification theory was not primarily based on religious belief, as if Jewish people who declared themselves Christian would be exempt from his solution.
There were certainly people of Jewish decent in TWI and involved in the WOW program and corps. Oldies' question is certainly a legitimate one, especially since his question obviously referred to race, having asked about being Black or Jewish. The Black part was left out in the quote.
To question the matter as Steve did is certainly not unreasonable. But to refer to Oldies' question as not just a "stupid question", but as the one that "takes the cake" is IMO.
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JustThinking
Lifted Up quote:
"First of all, how we got from Patton into this...oh well."
LOL! I was thinking the same thing.
I started this thread and feel it's actually applicable. To me, it's just another example of one person trying to "command" his troops to follow his thinking.
Ok, so maybe it wasn't exactly what I had in mind but... :-)
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Lifted Up
Well, my familiarity with the original subject relates to my already mentioned Indy and corps lightbearers buddy. I was his "backstage assistant" when he did it. He repeated it later that year, then also at the ROA. Anyone remember at ROA 1978, I think it was before it started when the corps were there, an announcement requesting army type costume items? He didn't have the same stuff he did it atEmporia with, for reasons I can't remember.
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WordWolf
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WordWolf
Someone asked about this subject yesterday....
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