1. Breach of Contract: Nope! the Green Card wasn't a bona fide 'contract' as it were, specifically gauranteeing certain gains for certain actions.
2. Misappropriation of funds; This I think is your strongest point, altho' it would take a lot of info presented properly to prove this.
3. RICO Law violations: By and large the 'threat' was of a spiritual and religious nature, being that God was going to allow bad things to happen to us if we didn't give. If there were actual incidents of bodily harm and related intimidations, this might not apply, as this would be a class action, and the incidents were at best, sporadic.
4. Fraud: Subpoint (1) the new light claim being deliberately fraudulant is at best vacuous, as we all believed that we had 'new light' from the class, and even VPW believed this, or talked himself into believing this. Subpoint (2) might be more proveable in court, but how much that will help the class action case is doubtful.
In finality, how much won will be dependent upon the strength of your case--if at all. AND keep in mind that the attorneys representing us WILL get their sizeable cut, the size being determined by the work put into making this case. Subtract from that the taxes taken out. Divy the not-too-sizeable remains after that amongst all the PFAL participants, and you'd wind up making more by using your Kroger card for savings in this week's shopping trip.
I think that, by contrast, we all did FAR more damage to them by means of Waydale and Greasespot, plus other sites and ministries who endeavored to help the 'refugees' of TWI.
Your points are well taken. It is just a bug in my but that they're all sitting around living on the interest of our millions. Of course, they'll have to answer for it also.
He who forgets his past is doomed to relive itive it.
quote:I think that, by contrast, we all did FAR more damage to them by means of Waydale and Greasespot, plus other sites and ministries who endeavored to help the 'refugees' of TWI.
Digger -- Garth is right. We all have that "bug in the butt" too, but look at how many millions ($$) are not making their way to twi coffers now because of GS, off-shoots, etc.
And also think how they are depleting their bank account through the legal action already happening. With less membership these days, they have to dig into their own pockets (more than before) to pay for it.
If think that if money REALLY was a problem for TWI, they wouldn't be so litigation-happy, suing everyone and every organization that they deem irritating. That high powered law firm they employ does not work pro bono for them, but they are more than ready to shell out the bucks to sic them on their perceived enemies.
WW I was just about to bring up that point but you already did so I think I'll just say that (IMO) the folks "running" it are very selfish people... God is not happy with the job they're doing either!
It seems like they don't have much choice with certain law suits. They have to do their best then settle to keep the details out of the public record. With us, they can call us names and say we're possessed. If it's their own BOT admitting things in a court of law, that's hard to deny.
Now PJ's suit... ??? Not sure about that one. Maybe they have more money than we think? I just don't think we're talking about foolish or naive people.
I wouldn’t be so soon to classify TWI as a ravenous animal attacking everything and anything they can. I wouldn't be so quick to jump on the band-wagon that their lawyers jump at their command because they wave some $$$$$ at them.
That law firm has a very good reputation to keep. This keeps them in the big bucks and TWI is a small client to them. Rosie can snap her fingers, but they don’t jump. Only after well researched investigation will they hang their firm’s name on a suit. Frivolous lawsuits just wouldn’t be accepted.
A seriously wounded predator is the category I would place TWI in. Very dangerous, whose nature is to easily rip prey apart. But, being wounded it will only strike were it smells blood, where it can be just short of guaranteed a feast that comes with a victory it can proudly display...........
It is my sincere hope to see twi totally bankrupt and out of business before I am laid to my rest. When that glorious day comes, I will raise my glass and make a toast and as Bob Dylan once said "I will stand on their grave til I'm sure that their dead".
quote:"Rosie can snap her fingers, but they don’t jump. Only after well researched investigation will they hang their firm’s name on a suit."
I kindly disagree. Some pending litigation taken on by this firm, that I have deeply researched, indicates that they may not be the crack attorney's that some make them out to be.
They settled out of court for big bucks on the two largest suits againt TWI, and things don't look too good for TWI in the Pee1er Case. Their grandest accomplishment to date seems to be facillitating a $200 fine and conviction on someone for trespassing.
The fact that this firm represents TWI, already stains their reputation. Money that folks give to God (through TWI) for the pupose of "moving the Word" is being siphoned off into the pockets of these overpriced lawyers -- and they are more than glad to take it.
Even dispicable outfits like TWI are entitled to legal counsel and representation and there are law firms (like this one) more than willing to take their money.
quote:"Rosie can snap her fingers, but they don’t jump. Only after well researched investigation will they hang their firm’s name on a suit."
Many firms take the word of their client that the facts are accurate.
Geeze, the lawyers in my case couldn't even get my address right the first time, despite my being in the phone book, property records, motor vehicle records, being listed on the VT secretary of state website, my mailing address on my websites, and previous correspondance with their attorneys with my mailing address etc.....
Sure we know who they are representing and how their clients came by the money. If I am not mistaken TWI has a long and lucrative (for the law firm) relationship with this firm. Wouldn’t the firm be on a retainer? But our judgement of the firm is totally biased because of what we know of this particular client. Perhaps the question should be how many other clients like the one we despise do they have?
But you also help make my point, as far as the advice in the legal area. Why the cash settlements? The BOT/BOD could have insisted on going to court with those cases, but their lawyers advised against it and recommended settlement. The firm would have made a much bigger payday by going on to trial. But they are paid to represent their clients best interest.
The 200 buck fine, I am sure that TWI was advised that there was very little they could do to the trespasser. But, TWI saw their property rights threatened and the fight was over that, not what they could do to Doug. It was strictly a legal battle, law firms do not base what cases they take on morals or ethics. Had Doug won, some of their property would have been open to the public and cop-outs would have been free to come and go. But, I think that Doug did win a victory as even cop-outs now can follow a procedure and visit where their loved ones remains have been laid to rest.
If addresses and dates prove critical to the out come of the case, they will thank-you as they simply amend! If they were critical from the filing date, that would have been researched. Yes lawyers do take the words of their clients on some things, such as details as dates. But, what is always researched is the legal aspect, does the client have a case according to the laws governing the case?
The president and founder of WayDale didn’t have the money to hire that high profile and very expensive lawyer. But he had a very solid case! Anytime someone has a solid case there are many good lawyers willing to take the case and collect from the client. What TWI refers to as the *copy-cat case* had to have the evidence and merits for that lawyer to pick-up on also. Which she did, so once again it was in their clients best interest to pay and get out of it.
Peelers have to prove that TWI lied to them, which we all know they did. Proving it in a court of law maybe another matter. I think they have a good solid case based on TWI collecting money while claiming there was only a one time *affair*.
Sorry Digger for the derail. However if you’d like a class action this is the type of things to look at. Based on morals and ethics TWI doesn’t have a leg to stand on. But the legal aspects are a whole different arena. An example is the Chalet, you’d have to prove in a court of law they always intended for it to be the 2nd presidents home while they solicited funds.
Strange-one......hehe, sure judges never ever report spastic legal advice and actions to *bars*, but they may spend a lot at time at one
I can't see there being grounds for a class action suit or for a suit of any kind by most GS participants. Anyone who has been out a year and hasn't filed a suit can pretty much forget it.
quote:It is just a bug in my but that they're all sitting around living on the interest of our millions. Of course, they'll have to answer for it also.
Digger, if your motives in giving money were love and wanting God to be glorified, God remembers your loving efforts and it certainly didn't go for nought, no matter what twi-2 does with those funds. that's the way i look at it, and seems to work for me...
quote: if your motives in giving money were love and wanting God to be glorified, God remembers your loving efforts and it certainly didn't go for nought.
True, but that does not mean we cannot hold twi-2 accountable for how they use the "gift given in love". From what you are saying, the Sower in Mat. 13 may as well toss his "seed" anywhere, and expect a good crop because his intentions were right.
quote:I can't see there being grounds for a class action suit or for a suit of any kind by most GS participants. Anyone who has been out a year and hasn't filed a suit can pretty much forget it.
"Most" is the keyword. Statutes of limitations very from state to state. 1 - 25 years depending upon the crime. And in the case of Ohio for example, the clock does not start ticking until the alleged act is discovered.
In Ohio, The Civil Statute of Limitations for fraud is 4 years - Slander and libel is one year.
quote:if your motives in giving money were love and wanting God to be glorified, God remembers your loving efforts and it certainly didn't go for nought
that's the way I look at it also (bullinger)... it's their problem with the big guy in the end...
...of course, it sure does sound like they've strayed from "not grudingly (cuz you have to) or of necessity (give so you can recieve back) for God loveth a cheerfull giver"... it almost sounds like they TWI have turned it around to the opposite of that...
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GarthP2000
Some comments re: the Four Points:
1. Breach of Contract: Nope! the Green Card wasn't a bona fide 'contract' as it were, specifically gauranteeing certain gains for certain actions.
2. Misappropriation of funds; This I think is your strongest point, altho' it would take a lot of info presented properly to prove this.
3. RICO Law violations: By and large the 'threat' was of a spiritual and religious nature, being that God was going to allow bad things to happen to us if we didn't give. If there were actual incidents of bodily harm and related intimidations, this might not apply, as this would be a class action, and the incidents were at best, sporadic.
4. Fraud: Subpoint (1) the new light claim being deliberately fraudulant is at best vacuous, as we all believed that we had 'new light' from the class, and even VPW believed this, or talked himself into believing this. Subpoint (2) might be more proveable in court, but how much that will help the class action case is doubtful.
In finality, how much won will be dependent upon the strength of your case--if at all. AND keep in mind that the attorneys representing us WILL get their sizeable cut, the size being determined by the work put into making this case. Subtract from that the taxes taken out. Divy the not-too-sizeable remains after that amongst all the PFAL participants, and you'd wind up making more by using your Kroger card for savings in this week's shopping trip.
I think that, by contrast, we all did FAR more damage to them by means of Waydale and Greasespot, plus other sites and ministries who endeavored to help the 'refugees' of TWI.
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Digger
Garth,
Your points are well taken. It is just a bug in my but that they're all sitting around living on the interest of our millions. Of course, they'll have to answer for it also.
He who forgets his past is doomed to relive itive it.
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dmiller
Digger -- Garth is right. We all have that "bug in the butt" too, but look at how many millions ($$) are not making their way to twi coffers now because of GS, off-shoots, etc.
And also think how they are depleting their bank account through the legal action already happening. With less membership these days, they have to dig into their own pockets (more than before) to pay for it.
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Cherished Child
If think that if money REALLY was a problem for TWI, they wouldn't be so litigation-happy, suing everyone and every organization that they deem irritating. That high powered law firm they employ does not work pro bono for them, but they are more than ready to shell out the bucks to sic them on their perceived enemies.
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WordWolf
I think they're short-sighted and petty enough to waste a sizeable
chunk of their ABS money just to make nuisance suits and vent on
someone. They WOULD cut their nose to spite their face.
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Tom Strange
WW I was just about to bring up that point but you already did so I think I'll just say that (IMO) the folks "running" it are very selfish people... God is not happy with the job they're doing either!
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JustThinking
It seems like they don't have much choice with certain law suits. They have to do their best then settle to keep the details out of the public record. With us, they can call us names and say we're possessed. If it's their own BOT admitting things in a court of law, that's hard to deny.
Now PJ's suit... ??? Not sure about that one. Maybe they have more money than we think? I just don't think we're talking about foolish or naive people.
JT
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Tom Strange
JT said:
But we are talking about either evil, conniving people or mindless puppets...adjective
devious: devious and scheming
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Grizzy
I wouldn’t be so soon to classify TWI as a ravenous animal attacking everything and anything they can. I wouldn't be so quick to jump on the band-wagon that their lawyers jump at their command because they wave some $$$$$ at them.
That law firm has a very good reputation to keep. This keeps them in the big bucks and TWI is a small client to them. Rosie can snap her fingers, but they don’t jump. Only after well researched investigation will they hang their firm’s name on a suit. Frivolous lawsuits just wouldn’t be accepted.
A seriously wounded predator is the category I would place TWI in. Very dangerous, whose nature is to easily rip prey apart. But, being wounded it will only strike were it smells blood, where it can be just short of guaranteed a feast that comes with a victory it can proudly display...........
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Tom Strange
yeah Griz... that fits... backs to a corner in a snarling position...
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dmiller
This is a "true-ism". The law firm probably couldn't care less about the bickerings, unless they were fairly confident of winning.
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George Aar
I guess you could take "action" against TWI, but I don't think anything that involves those clowns could have "class" attached to it...
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dmiller
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GrouchoMarxJr
It is my sincere hope to see twi totally bankrupt and out of business before I am laid to my rest. When that glorious day comes, I will raise my glass and make a toast and as Bob Dylan once said "I will stand on their grave til I'm sure that their dead".
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Goey
They settled out of court for big bucks on the two largest suits againt TWI, and things don't look too good for TWI in the Pee1er Case. Their grandest accomplishment to date seems to be facillitating a $200 fine and conviction on someone for trespassing.
The fact that this firm represents TWI, already stains their reputation. Money that folks give to God (through TWI) for the pupose of "moving the Word" is being siphoned off into the pockets of these overpriced lawyers -- and they are more than glad to take it.
Even dispicable outfits like TWI are entitled to legal counsel and representation and there are law firms (like this one) more than willing to take their money.
Innies, Your ABS hard at work.
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pjroberge
Geeze, the lawyers in my case couldn't even get my address right the first time, despite my being in the phone book, property records, motor vehicle records, being listed on the VT secretary of state website, my mailing address on my websites, and previous correspondance with their attorneys with my mailing address etc.....
Thorough investigation, Oh please.........
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Tom Strange
Most lawyers will take the money, winnable case or not... as long as they are guaranteed to get paid... as my lovely wife says...
"it's all about billing"...
Now, you are correct, most lawyers will not take something that will get them in trouble with the bar... but TWI's cases are hardly that...
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Grizzy
Goey,
Sure we know who they are representing and how their clients came by the money. If I am not mistaken TWI has a long and lucrative (for the law firm) relationship with this firm. Wouldn’t the firm be on a retainer? But our judgement of the firm is totally biased because of what we know of this particular client. Perhaps the question should be how many other clients like the one we despise do they have?
But you also help make my point, as far as the advice in the legal area. Why the cash settlements? The BOT/BOD could have insisted on going to court with those cases, but their lawyers advised against it and recommended settlement. The firm would have made a much bigger payday by going on to trial. But they are paid to represent their clients best interest.
The 200 buck fine, I am sure that TWI was advised that there was very little they could do to the trespasser. But, TWI saw their property rights threatened and the fight was over that, not what they could do to Doug. It was strictly a legal battle, law firms do not base what cases they take on morals or ethics. Had Doug won, some of their property would have been open to the public and cop-outs would have been free to come and go. But, I think that Doug did win a victory as even cop-outs now can follow a procedure and visit where their loved ones remains have been laid to rest.
If addresses and dates prove critical to the out come of the case, they will thank-you as they simply amend! If they were critical from the filing date, that would have been researched. Yes lawyers do take the words of their clients on some things, such as details as dates. But, what is always researched is the legal aspect, does the client have a case according to the laws governing the case?
The president and founder of WayDale didn’t have the money to hire that high profile and very expensive lawyer. But he had a very solid case! Anytime someone has a solid case there are many good lawyers willing to take the case and collect from the client. What TWI refers to as the *copy-cat case* had to have the evidence and merits for that lawyer to pick-up on also. Which she did, so once again it was in their clients best interest to pay and get out of it.
Peelers have to prove that TWI lied to them, which we all know they did. Proving it in a court of law maybe another matter. I think they have a good solid case based on TWI collecting money while claiming there was only a one time *affair*.
Sorry Digger for the derail. However if you’d like a class action this is the type of things to look at. Based on morals and ethics TWI doesn’t have a leg to stand on. But the legal aspects are a whole different arena. An example is the Chalet, you’d have to prove in a court of law they always intended for it to be the 2nd presidents home while they solicited funds.
Strange-one......hehe, sure judges never ever report spastic legal advice and actions to *bars*, but they may spend a lot at time at one
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LG
I can't see there being grounds for a class action suit or for a suit of any kind by most GS participants. Anyone who has been out a year and hasn't filed a suit can pretty much forget it.
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oldiesman
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dmiller
True, but that does not mean we cannot hold twi-2 accountable for how they use the "gift given in love". From what you are saying, the Sower in Mat. 13 may as well toss his "seed" anywhere, and expect a good crop because his intentions were right.
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Goey
"Most" is the keyword. Statutes of limitations very from state to state. 1 - 25 years depending upon the crime. And in the case of Ohio for example, the clock does not start ticking until the alleged act is discovered.
In Ohio, The Civil Statute of Limitations for fraud is 4 years - Slander and libel is one year.
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Tom Strange
OM said:
that's the way I look at it also (bullinger)... it's their problem with the big guy in the end......of course, it sure does sound like they've strayed from "not grudingly (cuz you have to) or of necessity (give so you can recieve back) for God loveth a cheerfull giver"... it almost sounds like they TWI have turned it around to the opposite of that...
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dmiller
Goey -- is there a statute of limitations for being stupid???
:D--> That is what I was, and I sure wouldn't go into court on those grounds. 
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