You haven`t bought it....I know ... you are calling all those that have come forth liars...
You have to do this in order to preserve your illusion of twi...make it really seem like twi was ok...otherwise face your culpability anf realise you were fooled.....I understand....really I do...but don`t think I will allow your insult and accusations against us to go unchallenged.
There are many FAR to many women who have come forth with the same allegations...
I personally have met in my tiney little world... THREE different women who were thrown out of twi for non compliance with the mogs sexual demand....each of them were declared possessed so that no one would listen to their side of the story....each of them thrown out of whatever program they were participating in at the time....all three of them lost EVERYTHING...their friends their families....aquaintances...their percieved spirituality...their homes...their connection with the body of christ...the rightly divided word of God that couldn`t be found any where else....each of them believed that they would die without the protection of God that had been withdrawn...each was made to feel as if it was their lack of spirituality and thought that they had gone mad....we know at least three MORE here at gspot that have corroborated the stories....
Wafer, thanks... you are probably right... and . have a good point......but so long as oldies is pointing his finger and calling them/us liars ...I will be in his face to refute those accusations.....
It is twi leadership evil all over again....he wants to discredit those telling the truth so that nobody will listen...
How many of you fine folks would like to know which of the BOT back in the 80's was circumcized at birth? Which one's where not! Let's have a post where women who know by experiance can say which ones by Intials,(Bot) belong to which catagory. Circ. or non-circ.
I guess if I told you which one was or was not, some indivduals would not believe it till they saw it for themselves. That is o.k by me. Truth needs no defense, just a witness. Boy are there plenty.
quote:I personally have met in my tiney little world... THREE different women who were thrown out of twi for non compliance with the mogs sexual demand....each of them were declared possessed so that no one would listen to their side of the story....each of them thrown out of whatever program they were participating in at the time....all three of them lost EVERYTHING...their friends their families....aquaintances...their percieved spirituality...their homes...their connection with the body of christ...the rightly divided word of God that couldn`t be found any where else....each of them believed that they would die without the protection of God that had been withdrawn...each was made to feel as if it was their lack of spirituality and thought that they had gone mad....we know at least three MORE here at gspot that have corroborated the stories....
Rascal, I buy this more than I do the mind control, helpless victim tales.
Here you have three women who did the right thing, stood up for themselves and their morality, and were tossed because of it. Hey, that's not an unlikely story, is it? Lots of folks fall into that category. Are they all victims? It really all depends on one's point of view. One may be thankful for the "good" once experienced from twi and what was learned, and lots of folks are. I'm glad those women stood up for themselves and although they were defintely mistreated and when they were booted, at first they felt alone, it was definitely the right thing to do and they didn't compromise their integrity.
On a personal note, my tale of leaving twi didn't involve sex, but it involved something about my integrity and though I did the right thing, I was labelled a trouble maker because of it. Hey, no problem...
They didn't lose everything by leaving twi, because it says in the bible that our treasures and rewards for standing on the word are laid up in heaven.
They lost their friends, families and acquaintences? I have a somewhat different outlook. If their so-called friends, families and acquaintces couldn't give a damn about their feelings, or what they thought and what motivated them to leave -- well then I say to hell with the so-called friends, families and acquaintences. You're better off without them.
I guess we can look at everyone as victims if by that you mean we lost everything by leaving twi. yes we lost some, but we also learned a few things and some of us can still be thankful for the godly elements and not think everything was evil and wrong ...
quote: If their so-called friends, families and acquaintces couldn't give a damn about their feelings, or what they thought and what motivated them to leave -- well then I say to hell with the so-called friends, families and acquaintences. You're better off without them.
It TAKES mind control to allow yourself to be used for the mogs sexual pleasure....
It TAKES mind control to coerce people into aborting wanted children...
It TAKES mind control to throw our much loved though disobediant children out on the streets at leaderships insistance....
It TAKES mind control to convince family members and friends to turn their backs forever on a loved one...
It TAKES mind control to prevent members from turning in leaders whom abuse members into law enforcement....
It WAS mind control that enabled leadership to convince us that these things the things they wanted ...were required by God....
There are no Godly rewards or mythical treasures stored away for some future date.....that is just another smarmy way of making what we endured seem just a little bit ok......
The women who were cast aside for not complying were hurt beyond endurance... ....the women who DID comply and were consequently cast aside when their usefullness exhausted...were hurt beyond endurance as well........there was no right or wrong decisions.....only very vile evil men exercising their power and control over people that looked to them for the answeres promised when we all took pfal....
You oldies need to look at the source of the supposed *good* you recieved....look at the fruit in the lives of these men...overwhelmingly they manifest the fruit of the flesh..... very little spiritual attributes...
Could it be that the small amount of good you recieved was simply the hook or snare that dragged you into a corrupt evil organisation ...one that hijacked the good intentions of people whom were looking to God for answeres....one that used and then callously cast aside precious saints....any ONE of whom Jesus talked about being so precious and valuable that the shepherd would leave his entire flock to search untill they were found and rescued....one whoms leaders set out to visciously destroy the life and reputation if they DIDN`T comply explicity with their directives...these abusers of precious saints...these thieves of resources intended for God are the very men you are defending at the expense of your spiritual brothers and sisters....are you one of them??
(((Imbus))) even that would not be enough to convince one to shed the scales covering their eyes I am afraid...
Some of you need to take a look at what you're doing here. You say how terrible it was for TWI to discredit people, call them out of fellowship, call them possessed, turn their family and friends against them, etc. yet you do the same thing when someone doesn't agree with your group think.
I reread all OM's posts. Not one use of the word 'liar'. But that's what he's calling everybody. Gotta be.
You know I got to thinkin. I think from a male perspective it might be hard to understand women. Women don't think like men. They are more emotional in there thought processes. Men on the other hand are more linear. (logical)
In our society the male is validated starting at birth. "It's a boy!" To carry on the family name. Little girls are not validated at all in there birth right.
There is so much in our world that affirms a males place in society. Very little to affirm a female. Maybe the role of a mother or sex partner. A modern day second class citizenship.
You have to admit that it has been an up hill battle to be taken seriosly on a buisness level. It's getting better. Times are changing.
Having said this... Women are an easiy target for manipulation. With their social self-esteme barly making the grade, it would be hard if I was a male to understand why women do some things. We've been taught at a very early age to get married ,have children and be in a support role. Boys are tought to be tough, aggressive and think for themselves. I think both men and women have gotten a raw deal in our social up bring."Boy don't cry,little girls wear dresses" And we all suffer as a result.
All this effects the persons personia. Men have a challenging time with amotions and its expression and women have to be taught or allowed to be linear.
So my point in all this is... You cannot succesfully understand a womens perspective with linear thinking... if your a male. The same holds true for females. You cannot understand a mans logical thought processes. It seems so black and white. It makes no amotioal since.
It takes work on both sides to see the others point of view without prejudice. Get out of your own head and try to understand the other person weither you agree or not.
quote:I personally have met in my tiney little world... THREE different women who were thrown out of twi for non compliance with the mogs sexual demand....each of them were declared possessed so that no one would listen to their side of the story....each of them thrown out of whatever program they were participating in at the time....all three of them lost EVERYTHING...their friends their families....aquaintances...their percieved spirituality...their homes...their connection with the body of christ...the rightly divided word of God that couldn`t be found any where else....each of them believed that they would die without the protection of God that had been withdrawn...each was made to feel as if it was their lack of spirituality and thought that they had gone mad....we know at least three MORE here at gspot that have corroborated the stories....
To which OM replied:
quote:Rascal, I buy this more than I do the mind control, helpless victim tales.
But don't you see it OM? That's what happened to those who refused. Now... a young lady, wanting to serve the Lord, and "God's only true ministry" wouldn't refuse because that would mean that she was possessed. And no one, well pretty much no one, wants to be possessed.... So the MOG is telling them "it's God's will that you do this for/with me"... and in her mind she's convinced that this MOG "walks in the spirit and cares for her"... plus she does not want to be possessed...
what choice is there for her?
(1) compliance with the MOG who "cares for her"
or
(2) possession by devil spirits and loss of her way of life as she knows it...
Johnyouare, have you not seen OM's posts related to this subject on other threads? He has stated that he "doesn't believe the stories of coercion and abuse" were the result of manipulative, evil p-ricks... he has effectively called them either liars or saying that they "had a choice to refuse" and that they (the victims) should "share the blame"...
I guess I use the word "brainwashed" loosely at times. It's a "push button" word for a lot of folks and often times, they'll get up on their high horse and object to it's useage. Ok by me. I realize that while I was in residence, I had freedom of will...I could have left anytime I wanted...almost did a couple of times.
Being a part of twi for 13 years and then leaving, I wanted to know what exactly had happened to me during my "cult years". Make no mistake about it, twi is a cult by every measure. They employ mind control techniques to induce a group think mentality. It's not unique, ask anyone who has endured military basic training. We were not literally puppets on a string, but we were certainly under tremendous pressure to comply.
I disagree with Oldies when it comes to assigning blame for sexual indiscretions. A "high ranking" clergy who directs himself sexually at one of his own flock, takes the full blame for what he has done. He should be taken out and horsewhipped for his crime. In no way is the woman to share in that blame. How dare anyone try to depict the woman as anything other than a victim.
I stand by my comparison of prison guards and twi leaders. Although there are certainly differences between the two, The ingredients of authority and secrecy working together to cause sadistic sexual behavior is evident in both. Several years ago there was an experiment with college students. Half were made guards and half were made prisoners. The idea was to swap roles after several days. The experiment had to be aborted because the first group had become so sadistical that they were afraid someone would get hurt. Under certain conditions, people respond in certain ways...pure and simple.
In my experience, I always felt the arrogance and uncaring attitude when I was around top twi leaders. The degree of their evil behind closed doors is astounding.
I disagree with Oldies when it comes to assigning blame for sexual indiscretions. A "high ranking" clergy who directs himself sexually at one of his own flock, takes the full blame for what he has done. He should be taken out and horsewhipped for his crime. In no way is the woman to share in that blame. How dare anyone try to depict the woman as anything other than a victim.
You make women sound like they're all mentally retarded. I don't buy this. Hmm. Sadistic leadership / "horsewhipped for his crime". Hyperbole is good if it's used in moderation. I guess.
"I stand by my comparison of prison guards and twi leaders. Although there are certainly differences between the two, The ingredients of authority and secrecy working together to cause sadistic sexual behavior is evident in both. Several years ago there was an experiment with college students. Half were made guards and half were made prisoners. The idea was to swap roles after several days. The experiment had to be aborted because the first group had become so sadistical that they were afraid someone would get hurt. Under certain conditions, people respond in certain ways...pure and simple."
I remember that study! It was very interesting and it was scary for all involved. Not only were the "guards" getting out of control, but the "prisoners" were also having serious psychological issues.
Look at all TWI did for us before you start pointing fingers. I cannot remember all the picnics that they put on during my maany maany years of involvment. Too many to count. And only half the time was I required to pay (sponsorship & ABS does not count as payment) ...
Another factor in the coercion existed for in-res Corps and Staff. Many, if not most, of them had given up everything to be there. If they were kicked out of the organization, they would literally be on the street.
I was lucky, I guess. When we were fired from Staff, we were not blacklisted, at least not yet. Many believers came forward with money, a car (wowmobile), and a trailer (homemade) to help us move and get started.
Our baby was 2 months old. As I said, we were lucky.
Shaz
PS Oldies -- Does the word "coercion" work for you? I think "brainwashing" has the connotation of zombies in lockstep, but I think TWI had more to do with peer pressure and isolation to only one point of view as being "the truth."
[Edited to fix the misspelling of "coercion." Not brainwashed, Lyme brained! ;)--> ]
In addition, it is more blessed to give than it is to receive (the Peshiita text reads "to give it up"). The leadership only had the womens' best interest at heart.
A tree is known by its fruit.
And I suppose the leaders were not trees ...
So maybe OM, Johnheis and Mike? have a valid point ...
quote: Some of you need to take a look at what you're doing here. You say how terrible it was for TWI to discredit people, call them out of fellowship, call them possessed, turn their family and friends against them, etc. yet you do the same thing when someone doesn't agree with your group think.
I reread all OM's posts. Not one use of the word 'liar'. But that's what he's calling everybody. Gotta be.
Johniam, thanks for your support. I have some different opinions as some posters, but doesn't mean I'm calling them liars; just coming from a different perspective. Because I don't swallow whole what some posters think, I'm labelled as calling them liars. Some folks can't or won't accept that folks have different opinions than theirs. I sometimes wonder what would happen if 50 pro-twi folks starting posting at GS? would some posters be able to handle the dissent and lack of acceptance without the namecalling and labelling?
quote:It takes work on both sides to see the others point of view without prejudice. Get out of your own head and try to understand the other person weither you agree or not.
Imbus, you make a very good point. Sometimes I feel like "the truth" lies somewhere in between what Rascal and I are saying. Careful consideration of both perspectives isn't a bad idea.
This thread is interesting! I seem to remember that verse about the chief shepherd and under shepherds in Peter are supposed to be examples to the flock, not overlords! Lordship belongs only to the Lord, no one else...
Of course, all mog's have to understand that they are examples, one way or the other! Too many of them are bad ones, sad to say.
VPW used to say that you NEVER let anyone lord over you ever, because JC paid the price for you and he is the only one. The error in practice came in with correlating Moses with mog's. Moses is supposed to be correlated with JC. Mog's (real ones) are supposed to correlate with Aaron & Miriam.
It gets sexual because of the wife/husband relationship in Corinthians. That's the only relationship power over someone else is appropriate biblically speaking, being the power to render due benevolence. So when someone other than a spousal relationship is doing lordship they are asking/demanding sex and vice versa or will eventually if not held accountable to the scrips.
Sexual abuse is not about sex. It's about power.
IMHO!
For those of you blaming the women, shame shame. Sure they could have said no, and those who did paid a price. Most of the time they were black balled, some were kicked out, sent LOA and other wonderful things. Such is life... Abuse of power is almost always followed by sexual abuse if not stopped asap. Eli's sons. God blamed Eli because he restrained them not.
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rascal
You haven`t bought it....I know ... you are calling all those that have come forth liars...
You have to do this in order to preserve your illusion of twi...make it really seem like twi was ok...otherwise face your culpability anf realise you were fooled.....I understand....really I do...but don`t think I will allow your insult and accusations against us to go unchallenged.
There are many FAR to many women who have come forth with the same allegations...
I personally have met in my tiney little world... THREE different women who were thrown out of twi for non compliance with the mogs sexual demand....each of them were declared possessed so that no one would listen to their side of the story....each of them thrown out of whatever program they were participating in at the time....all three of them lost EVERYTHING...their friends their families....aquaintances...their percieved spirituality...their homes...their connection with the body of christ...the rightly divided word of God that couldn`t be found any where else....each of them believed that they would die without the protection of God that had been withdrawn...each was made to feel as if it was their lack of spirituality and thought that they had gone mad....we know at least three MORE here at gspot that have corroborated the stories....
Wafer, thanks... you are probably right... and . have a good point......but so long as oldies is pointing his finger and calling them/us liars ...I will be in his face to refute those accusations.....
It is twi leadership evil all over again....he wants to discredit those telling the truth so that nobody will listen...
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Tom Strange
OM said:
Actually I'd be just as inclined to 'portray' YOU as brainwashed for your failure to recognize what happened in "Way World"Link to comment
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imbus
How many of you fine folks would like to know which of the BOT back in the 80's was circumcized at birth? Which one's where not! Let's have a post where women who know by experiance can say which ones by Intials,(Bot) belong to which catagory. Circ. or non-circ.
I guess if I told you which one was or was not, some indivduals would not believe it till they saw it for themselves. That is o.k by me. Truth needs no defense, just a witness. Boy are there plenty.
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dmiller
More info than I care to know!!!
Good idea though.
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oldiesman
Rascal, I buy this more than I do the mind control, helpless victim tales.
Here you have three women who did the right thing, stood up for themselves and their morality, and were tossed because of it. Hey, that's not an unlikely story, is it? Lots of folks fall into that category. Are they all victims? It really all depends on one's point of view. One may be thankful for the "good" once experienced from twi and what was learned, and lots of folks are. I'm glad those women stood up for themselves and although they were defintely mistreated and when they were booted, at first they felt alone, it was definitely the right thing to do and they didn't compromise their integrity.
On a personal note, my tale of leaving twi didn't involve sex, but it involved something about my integrity and though I did the right thing, I was labelled a trouble maker because of it. Hey, no problem...
They didn't lose everything by leaving twi, because it says in the bible that our treasures and rewards for standing on the word are laid up in heaven.
They lost their friends, families and acquaintences? I have a somewhat different outlook. If their so-called friends, families and acquaintces couldn't give a damn about their feelings, or what they thought and what motivated them to leave -- well then I say to hell with the so-called friends, families and acquaintences. You're better off without them.
I guess we can look at everyone as victims if by that you mean we lost everything by leaving twi. yes we lost some, but we also learned a few things and some of us can still be thankful for the godly elements and not think everything was evil and wrong ...
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dmiller
You're kidding, right?
No -- I don't think you are.
:(--> 
:(--> 
:(-->
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rascal
It TAKES mind control to allow yourself to be used for the mogs sexual pleasure....
It TAKES mind control to coerce people into aborting wanted children...
It TAKES mind control to throw our much loved though disobediant children out on the streets at leaderships insistance....
It TAKES mind control to convince family members and friends to turn their backs forever on a loved one...
It TAKES mind control to prevent members from turning in leaders whom abuse members into law enforcement....
It WAS mind control that enabled leadership to convince us that these things the things they wanted ...were required by God....
There are no Godly rewards or mythical treasures stored away for some future date.....that is just another smarmy way of making what we endured seem just a little bit ok......
The women who were cast aside for not complying were hurt beyond endurance... ....the women who DID comply and were consequently cast aside when their usefullness exhausted...were hurt beyond endurance as well........there was no right or wrong decisions.....only very vile evil men exercising their power and control over people that looked to them for the answeres promised when we all took pfal....
You oldies need to look at the source of the supposed *good* you recieved....look at the fruit in the lives of these men...overwhelmingly they manifest the fruit of the flesh..... very little spiritual attributes...
Could it be that the small amount of good you recieved was simply the hook or snare that dragged you into a corrupt evil organisation ...one that hijacked the good intentions of people whom were looking to God for answeres....one that used and then callously cast aside precious saints....any ONE of whom Jesus talked about being so precious and valuable that the shepherd would leave his entire flock to search untill they were found and rescued....one whoms leaders set out to visciously destroy the life and reputation if they DIDN`T comply explicity with their directives...these abusers of precious saints...these thieves of resources intended for God are the very men you are defending at the expense of your spiritual brothers and sisters....are you one of them??
(((Imbus))) even that would not be enough to convince one to shed the scales covering their eyes I am afraid...
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johniam
Some of you need to take a look at what you're doing here. You say how terrible it was for TWI to discredit people, call them out of fellowship, call them possessed, turn their family and friends against them, etc. yet you do the same thing when someone doesn't agree with your group think.
I reread all OM's posts. Not one use of the word 'liar'. But that's what he's calling everybody. Gotta be.
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excathedra
well johnnyam this is something i am always battling in my mind
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imbus
You know I got to thinkin. I think from a male perspective it might be hard to understand women. Women don't think like men. They are more emotional in there thought processes. Men on the other hand are more linear. (logical)
In our society the male is validated starting at birth. "It's a boy!" To carry on the family name. Little girls are not validated at all in there birth right.
There is so much in our world that affirms a males place in society. Very little to affirm a female. Maybe the role of a mother or sex partner. A modern day second class citizenship.
You have to admit that it has been an up hill battle to be taken seriosly on a buisness level. It's getting better. Times are changing.
Having said this... Women are an easiy target for manipulation. With their social self-esteme barly making the grade, it would be hard if I was a male to understand why women do some things. We've been taught at a very early age to get married ,have children and be in a support role. Boys are tought to be tough, aggressive and think for themselves. I think both men and women have gotten a raw deal in our social up bring."Boy don't cry,little girls wear dresses" And we all suffer as a result.
All this effects the persons personia. Men have a challenging time with amotions and its expression and women have to be taught or allowed to be linear.
So my point in all this is... You cannot succesfully understand a womens perspective with linear thinking... if your a male. The same holds true for females. You cannot understand a mans logical thought processes. It seems so black and white. It makes no amotioal since.
It takes work on both sides to see the others point of view without prejudice. Get out of your own head and try to understand the other person weither you agree or not.
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Tom Strange
Rascal said:
To which OM replied:
But don't you see it OM? That's what happened to those who refused. Now... a young lady, wanting to serve the Lord, and "God's only true ministry" wouldn't refuse because that would mean that she was possessed. And no one, well pretty much no one, wants to be possessed.... So the MOG is telling them "it's God's will that you do this for/with me"... and in her mind she's convinced that this MOG "walks in the spirit and cares for her"... plus she does not want to be possessed...what choice is there for her?
(1) compliance with the MOG who "cares for her"
or
(2) possession by devil spirits and loss of her way of life as she knows it...
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Tom Strange
Johnyouare, have you not seen OM's posts related to this subject on other threads? He has stated that he "doesn't believe the stories of coercion and abuse" were the result of manipulative, evil p-ricks... he has effectively called them either liars or saying that they "had a choice to refuse" and that they (the victims) should "share the blame"...
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Grizzy
Seems like oldies puts women in two categories those that won’t and those that wanted it.
Wonder where he puts the women in his life?
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GrouchoMarxJr
I guess I use the word "brainwashed" loosely at times. It's a "push button" word for a lot of folks and often times, they'll get up on their high horse and object to it's useage. Ok by me. I realize that while I was in residence, I had freedom of will...I could have left anytime I wanted...almost did a couple of times.
Being a part of twi for 13 years and then leaving, I wanted to know what exactly had happened to me during my "cult years". Make no mistake about it, twi is a cult by every measure. They employ mind control techniques to induce a group think mentality. It's not unique, ask anyone who has endured military basic training. We were not literally puppets on a string, but we were certainly under tremendous pressure to comply.
I disagree with Oldies when it comes to assigning blame for sexual indiscretions. A "high ranking" clergy who directs himself sexually at one of his own flock, takes the full blame for what he has done. He should be taken out and horsewhipped for his crime. In no way is the woman to share in that blame. How dare anyone try to depict the woman as anything other than a victim.
I stand by my comparison of prison guards and twi leaders. Although there are certainly differences between the two, The ingredients of authority and secrecy working together to cause sadistic sexual behavior is evident in both. Several years ago there was an experiment with college students. Half were made guards and half were made prisoners. The idea was to swap roles after several days. The experiment had to be aborted because the first group had become so sadistical that they were afraid someone would get hurt. Under certain conditions, people respond in certain ways...pure and simple.
In my experience, I always felt the arrogance and uncaring attitude when I was around top twi leaders. The degree of their evil behind closed doors is astounding.
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johniam
UH:
quote:
I disagree with Oldies when it comes to assigning blame for sexual indiscretions. A "high ranking" clergy who directs himself sexually at one of his own flock, takes the full blame for what he has done. He should be taken out and horsewhipped for his crime. In no way is the woman to share in that blame. How dare anyone try to depict the woman as anything other than a victim.
You make women sound like they're all mentally retarded. I don't buy this. Hmm. Sadistic leadership / "horsewhipped for his crime". Hyperbole is good if it's used in moderation. I guess.
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Abigail
"I stand by my comparison of prison guards and twi leaders. Although there are certainly differences between the two, The ingredients of authority and secrecy working together to cause sadistic sexual behavior is evident in both. Several years ago there was an experiment with college students. Half were made guards and half were made prisoners. The idea was to swap roles after several days. The experiment had to be aborted because the first group had become so sadistical that they were afraid someone would get hurt. Under certain conditions, people respond in certain ways...pure and simple."
I remember that study! It was very interesting and it was scary for all involved. Not only were the "guards" getting out of control, but the "prisoners" were also having serious psychological issues.
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tomtuttle
Look at all TWI did for us before you start pointing fingers. I cannot remember all the picnics that they put on during my maany maany years of involvment. Too many to count. And only half the time was I required to pay (sponsorship & ABS does not count as payment) ...
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shazdancer
Another factor in the coercion existed for in-res Corps and Staff. Many, if not most, of them had given up everything to be there. If they were kicked out of the organization, they would literally be on the street.
I was lucky, I guess. When we were fired from Staff, we were not blacklisted, at least not yet. Many believers came forward with money, a car (wowmobile), and a trailer (homemade) to help us move and get started.
Our baby was 2 months old. As I said, we were lucky.
Shaz
PS Oldies -- Does the word "coercion" work for you? I think "brainwashing" has the connotation of zombies in lockstep, but I think TWI had more to do with peer pressure and isolation to only one point of view as being "the truth."
[Edited to fix the misspelling of "coercion." Not brainwashed, Lyme brained!
;)--> ]
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tomtuttle
In addition, it is more blessed to give than it is to receive (the Peshiita text reads "to give it up"). The leadership only had the womens' best interest at heart.
A tree is known by its fruit.
And I suppose the leaders were not trees ...
So maybe OM, Johnheis and Mike? have a valid point ...
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oldiesman
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Danny
OM have you ever read or understand the word clueless.
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There's no place like home...
Hi everyone, newbie here.
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This thread is interesting! I seem to remember that verse about the chief shepherd and under shepherds in Peter are supposed to be examples to the flock, not overlords! Lordship belongs only to the Lord, no one else...
Of course, all mog's have to understand that they are examples, one way or the other! Too many of them are bad ones, sad to say.
VPW used to say that you NEVER let anyone lord over you ever, because JC paid the price for you and he is the only one. The error in practice came in with correlating Moses with mog's. Moses is supposed to be correlated with JC. Mog's (real ones) are supposed to correlate with Aaron & Miriam.
It gets sexual because of the wife/husband relationship in Corinthians. That's the only relationship power over someone else is appropriate biblically speaking, being the power to render due benevolence. So when someone other than a spousal relationship is doing lordship they are asking/demanding sex and vice versa or will eventually if not held accountable to the scrips.
Sexual abuse is not about sex. It's about power.
IMHO!
For those of you blaming the women, shame shame. Sure they could have said no, and those who did paid a price. Most of the time they were black balled, some were kicked out, sent LOA and other wonderful things. Such is life... Abuse of power is almost always followed by sexual abuse if not stopped asap. Eli's sons. God blamed Eli because he restrained them not.
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Watered Garden
Welcome, there's no place like home!
And thanks for your insightful post.
WG
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excathedra
hi, my name's excathedra and i'm a cultoholic
welcome there's no place like home... !!!!
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