oldiesman, I agree in part with what you have said here. I know for a fact there were women that readily made themselves available to both of those men. And since you don't know me I would like to offer I am not one that has thrown out all that I learned from VPW and LCM, and certainly never threw out my belief in God and His word.
Having said that I would like to ask is there any instance where a woman could be sexually abused besides the ones you stated (mentally retarded, children, or narcotized)? Now allow me to pretend your answer is yes and proceed. Could there also be an instance where the cost of denying continuation could be higher in her mind than the self degradation she must endure to comply? Okay taking it one step further if I may. Who then would be the one truly responsible for this injustice towards a soul placed in his spiritual care? And please I ask of you can we put aside the adultery point, for I myself would agree if she continued to comply she would in fact have been committing said point.
OM let me ask do you really think he earned a Doctorate? You still call him Dr.. Do you really think he came up with that class? Are was it taken from someone else? Do you really think he wrote those books? Tell me what you really think he was?
I think this verse helps clarify the difference in accountability and responsibility in a situation of a extra-marital sexual relationships between leadership and those they lead.
First the RSV version
quote: James 3:1 Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, for you know that we who teach shall be judged with greater strictness.
The Amplified Bible puts it this way:
quote: James 3:1 Not many [of you] should become teachers (self constituted censors and reprovers of others), my bretheren, for you know that we [teachers] will be judged by a higher standard and with greater severity [than other people; thus we assume the greater accountability and the more condemnation].
Both parties have responsibility and accountability before God, but the leaders is greater.
One thing I know is how differently I have seen this handeled by different leaders at different times when I was in the ministry.
In 1985 my soon to be wife was studing to be a massage thereapist. For practice and to bless a Corpse twig coordinator she gave him a massage. During the massage he took her hand and placed it on his genitals. She took her hand away and told him she was not giving that kind of massage. (massage school prepared them for that type of response) She finished the massage and told me about it and asked what I thought she should do, I asked my TC who was Corps how much slack you cut leadership where sex was concerned and he said none. I took my fiance to the branch Coord and she told him, he said he would take care of it but apparently nothing happened and then the whole passing of the patriarch came out and the fog years began.
Contrast that with the early 90's when mt Branch Coord was relieved and hustled out of town because he had covered for a corpse brother who was single and sleeping with one of his twig members (I think they were in love but the pressure was on about having to go back into residence if you had a spouse corpse- so he probably figured he would be dfac if they married)
Then the late 90's and LCM. When I first heard about it I could not belive it - such hypocracy.
quote:Having said that I would like to ask is there any instance where a woman could be sexually abused besides the ones you stated (mentally retarded, children, or narcotized)?
It's possible there are, but that would depend on the facts in each case. I certainly think sexual overtures from Victor Paul and the BOT are sexual harassment, at least. People shouldn't have been harassed in any way, shape or form. So if that's sexual abuse then yeah, there are definitely instances. But it's where it crosses over into the participant actually engaging in the activity, where I bring in my examples. Those mentioned above, mental retardation, children, drugs, are all examples where I'd classify the woman as being a harmless victim. There may be others; folks are free to opine what they are.
quote:OM let me ask do you really think he earned a Doctorate? You still call him Dr..
I think he earned a doctorate, only problem is, the institution he earned it from wasn't accredited. That was his fault, so if folks like you say he didn't earn it, so be it.
Have you thought about or do you realize that the difference between a state accredited institution, and a non-accredited institution, may have nothing to do with the actual workload or curriculum, but may be something as simple as a few thousand dollars paid to the state, to get the license?
Still, since Victor Paul was either too lazy, distracted, or poor to go to a state accredited institution, your contention that his doctorate isn't valid has merit.
quote:Do you really think he came up with that class? Are was it taken from someone else? Do you really think he wrote those books?
If you're referring to PFAL, I believe God worked in him to adapt it from the various teachings he learned from other men of God scattered across the continent, coupled with what he himself learned from his own study. Was it God Breathed? no. Did he get it by revelation? no. Doesn't make it any less godly, though.
quote: Tell me what you really think he was?
Just summarizing:
His godly side: He was a Christian with a tremendous ability to teach God's Word and convey upon the listeners, respect for the written word. His dark side: he engaged in sexual harassment and adultery, plagiarism, drinking/smoking; at various times with a mean and condescending demeanor.
You need to realize that people in twi came from all walks of life. Not all knew that the mog was suppose to keep their pants zipped.
Also, for women its totally different..you need to place yourself in their shoes. If they were taught that it was a sin to mess with a married man before twi and then learned to trust it would change everything.
They trusted their mog totally. I know as a singe woman in most of the years I was in twi, twi I was taught to service the mog. My service wasn't sexual but I know a friend of mine was. She was totally devestated by it. It took time for it to begin. When she revealed what was going on to me she was at a point of having a nervous breakdown.
It was totally different for a woman we were primed for it and it did take time.
Trust is a big thing here, om...even if we were taught differently, it changes after years of indoctrination.
Also, we are not just talking about a married man. We are talking about a person that was suppose to be a mog. Men we thought were walking for God.
I remember being told several times through the years that if a mog tells you to jump off the cliff not to ask questions just jump. God would protect you if that mog was wrong because it was God's will for us to do whatever the mog wanted.
Vickles ... I was taught the same thing:-( Do what the leader says because he walks for God...and IF he is wrong, God HAS to cover and protect you....
No I was never aproached sexually by a Mog...but my wow sister was...Some of what I WAS asked/required to do by leaders... that were never the less soul wrenching...( some suggestions of course were tougher than others to obey) .. were to sell the horses that I dearly loved...stop working in the mounted possee which I enjoyed tremendously...... get rid of my wonderfull faithfull Dogs that had traveled with me throughout my ten plus years in twi....leave my family..sell my car to my tc for next to nothing leaving myself without transportation.....and worst of all abort my child...
I cannot express the misery endured ...the soul wrenching heart breaking shame of being required to follow some of these instructions....
EACH one of these decisions were agreed too brokenly...after much agonizing over what my debt and responsibility to God were.....
EACH went against what I wanted or believed to be right... each agreed to in the end because I knew that God required me to obey these men...
However .....as horribly wrong as each decision was...as desperatly as I didn`t want to do it...as heartbreaking as each decision was to enact and then endure the shame and consequences of...when my mind and heart screamed at how wrong it was....I did it...brokenly ...sickend to the depths of my soul....because above all else...Iwas afraid to disobey and dissapoint God...I was afraid of the consequences of not being meek...
To disobey my leader was a finger in the face of God and I was made to feel that I owed him a whole lot more than that.
Oldies...I say it again in all honesty...no dramtics......I would have found a loaded gun to have been a whole lot less intimidating.
Physical death held no fear for me... spiritual degredation, however...spiritual posession... contamination of the body of Christ with my vileness as the consequences of not being meek...of being rebellious or stiff necked......was terrifying.
I was taught that it was all emotions as well...even when I didn`t WANT to do something ...it was just my emotions/5 sense *tricking* me not to be my best for God...I could listen to my 5 senses or I could be spiritually pleasing to God by my obediance...
I also was taught that if I felt something was drastically wrong with what a leader was asking me to do...it was simply satan just trying to trick me into not doing what God needed...two choices ..comply with leaderships request or allow satan to defeat me and God...
Last but not least...if I ever DID manage to have a little backbone...I was treated very badly....I had been tricked...I was in danger of posession...and others should keep their distance less the be likewise in peril....I never wanted to put my friends...loved ones...the very body of christ in danger because I was being stiff necked.
The psychological hold that they held was ultimate......I want to say as well, that the power the leader weilded...was not because we were weak or imoral or undisciplined....the choices we made were terribly difficult....It was never easy...
Oldies and for you to intimate that it is because we were weak or should have known better is yet another slap in the face...
These guys HAD the power and they used it to hurt...rather than to work for good..they had a choice...their actions depict just EXACTLY what kind of men they were...and it wasn`t men of the spirit.
I too was ordered to have an abortion. Although, I didn't have one I lived in guilt waiting for what they told me to happen. Leader**** told me that my baby would either have a serious birth defect or born again of the wrong seed.
There are things I've been told to do from the mog that I did and still sometimes the old stuff of the past comes to haunt me. I believed at the time that it was from God only to find out that it wasn't from God but from men that only wanted to control me.
I got in twi as a teen and I guess that was the most vulnerable time as I didn't know things of the world. I had been sheltered all my life and was pretty innocent. So when the mog said that you were suppose to jump I did thinking my life would be blessed.
About having my baby though it did have an effect on me. My daughter has bipolar and I have/had lived in guilt for many years thinking it was my fault. But I have to tell you that she is a christian and loves God with all her heart. Still to this day it still comes to haunt me. She is 17 years old now.
Although, in my heart I know that it was not from God what the mog told me to do it still bothers me.
I still remember some leaders that did come on to me but really I was so innocent that I didn't even know it and so didn't respond. Now that I'm a lot older I realize what it was but at the time didn't even know.
If I hadn't been so sheltered and so innocent I may have been one of those that would have succumbed to all the physical abuse.
Gosh, OM I just have a hard time believing that you don't realize what was and still is going on with twi. Either your a pretty dense guy or your living in a state of total denial. I'm sorry, I don't mean to put you down but really, it was all around you and you didn't even see it?
You still believe after all this time that women really wanted to have sex with a wrinkled old man? Gross!!!!
Yes, the five senses stuff. I remember only too well. I remember feeling bad about stuff the mog told me to do and was told that it was like being sick and my body having to upchuck it to get the poisen out. That I needed to get rid of the five senses thinking.
Now if you believed the five senses stuff was not something to keep because it was poisen and was told to sevice the mog, the poisen would be that you were thinking bad thoughts of servicing and would have to throw out those thoughts and just do it.
So OM even though it didn't make any sense but was told these things over the years wouldn't it be that these things actually did happen and is a form of abuse?
awww damn (((vick)) I know how frightened you must have been....bless you for having the guts to do what was right...I know the cost.
I was a young naieve teen as well...with a parent who had no time or inclination to teach me what was right or wrong...then here comes twi teaching me about God...teaching me the bible...loving me...giving me a purpose...God needed me in the spiritual battle...I was important....I was a good person...all things desperatly longed for by a naieve lonely teen...
So when the doctrine got a little strange...I still believed them...I mean shoot they were the onces who taught me about God...they HAD to be right..right?? And though I agonized over what was being demanded...there was no other choice in my mind...I had no one else ..I had long since been encouraged to cut ties with *natural* family and friends who would distract me from God and his word....anyone who might have been able to help me understand that God didn`t require me to forsake things of importance.. they were all long gone from my life...
Oh and ditto the GROOOOOSS concerning *doing* the wrinkled old fart...or an entertaining threesome with old big haid...
I don't think om realizes the humiliation that women went through if they didn't follow through.
I was called upon in front of the whole corps and screamed at railed at. I was devestated. It does something to your psych when you are so degraded.
Women were so second class in twi. Doncha know that we were there just for the mog?
You know after 17 years you would think I would be totally away from all this and then something hits me and then its there all of a sudden. But it gets less intense as time goes on.
OM, as a woman if you didn't follow through with things you were outcast. You really did lose everything if you had been in twi for many years. I was totally dependant on twi. I had separated from my family and friends. I did keep in touch with one friend but she totally didn't understand what I was in. So to leave twi was something that was not in the cards for me for many years.
I was scared of leaving that the hedge of protection would not be there when I left twi. Since I would not be ABSing to twi I totally believed that I would die.
So when I did leave I was waiting to die. I had finally gotten to the place of willing to die rather than be in that position of twi anymore.
When I left all my loved ones that I thought was family in twi turned on me and it was said I was possessed. I really believed that they were still the mog and believed that I was possessed for many years.
Call me stupid if you want. I say I was very gullible and vulnerable.
I have got to say it....It just blows my MIND that you oldies and john want to defend these amoral creeps simply because they taught you a little *word*....
Guys...They HURT people...They USED people...They TOOK what was not theirs... People were destroyed because of their actions...Can you not see it??? These are NOT guys who worked for God....He just didn`t teach us in the bible to behave that way...They decieved us...drew us away from the true love that God had for us...
Think about who`s purpose YOU are serving in defending and minimalizing the damage these people did to folks who simply wanted to love and serve God:-(
I remember talking to a really wonderful girl who had been on her interim corps wow year. The Evil Forehead came through town and “chose” her. Anyway, he told her how special she was -- honored, in a way -- and that God was so pleased and proud because she could handle “this” and “bless” him which enabled him to do God’s work. You know -- lifted such a burden from him as he traveled around doing the tough work of the ministry.
Well she believed this for a while, but eventually had a mental breakdown.
This could sound like BS now since I’m older and not in a cult. But I remember what it was like. And I also know there were many similar stories.
Hey, I’m really sorry rascal and vickles for your hurts. Many hugs to you.
Gullible, naieve, vulnerable, trusting...That indeed is what we were .........NOT whores...eager for a romp with a mog.
These leaders took advantage of our trust...they used the authority garnered as a representative for God to put us at ease...to bypass our internal alarms......
oh yes, excie, I forgot about the reason to service the mog. It was so they could do Gods work. That we were to bless the mog so they could continue to help others. Sick!!!!!
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Well, I wish you could just read it in the original...
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houseisarockin
Thank you WaywardWayfer.
oldiesman, I agree in part with what you have said here. I know for a fact there were women that readily made themselves available to both of those men. And since you don't know me I would like to offer I am not one that has thrown out all that I learned from VPW and LCM, and certainly never threw out my belief in God and His word.
Having said that I would like to ask is there any instance where a woman could be sexually abused besides the ones you stated (mentally retarded, children, or narcotized)? Now allow me to pretend your answer is yes and proceed. Could there also be an instance where the cost of denying continuation could be higher in her mind than the self degradation she must endure to comply? Okay taking it one step further if I may. Who then would be the one truly responsible for this injustice towards a soul placed in his spiritual care? And please I ask of you can we put aside the adultery point, for I myself would agree if she continued to comply she would in fact have been committing said point.
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Danny
OM let me ask do you really think he earned a Doctorate? You still call him Dr.. Do you really think he came up with that class? Are was it taken from someone else? Do you really think he wrote those books? Tell me what you really think he was?
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Tom Strange
good points house... let's see if he gives the same answer he always does...
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ckeer
I think this verse helps clarify the difference in accountability and responsibility in a situation of a extra-marital sexual relationships between leadership and those they lead.
First the RSV version
The Amplified Bible puts it this way:
Both parties have responsibility and accountability before God, but the leaders is greater.
One thing I know is how differently I have seen this handeled by different leaders at different times when I was in the ministry.
In 1985 my soon to be wife was studing to be a massage thereapist. For practice and to bless a Corpse twig coordinator she gave him a massage. During the massage he took her hand and placed it on his genitals. She took her hand away and told him she was not giving that kind of massage. (massage school prepared them for that type of response) She finished the massage and told me about it and asked what I thought she should do, I asked my TC who was Corps how much slack you cut leadership where sex was concerned and he said none. I took my fiance to the branch Coord and she told him, he said he would take care of it but apparently nothing happened and then the whole passing of the patriarch came out and the fog years began.
Contrast that with the early 90's when mt Branch Coord was relieved and hustled out of town because he had covered for a corpse brother who was single and sleeping with one of his twig members (I think they were in love but the pressure was on about having to go back into residence if you had a spouse corpse- so he probably figured he would be dfac if they married)
Then the late 90's and LCM. When I first heard about it I could not belive it - such hypocracy.
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dmiller
So the term "For Pete's Sake" came from Little Rock, Arkansake??
:P-->
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oldiesman
Houseisarockin
It's possible there are, but that would depend on the facts in each case. I certainly think sexual overtures from Victor Paul and the BOT are sexual harassment, at least. People shouldn't have been harassed in any way, shape or form. So if that's sexual abuse then yeah, there are definitely instances. But it's where it crosses over into the participant actually engaging in the activity, where I bring in my examples. Those mentioned above, mental retardation, children, drugs, are all examples where I'd classify the woman as being a harmless victim. There may be others; folks are free to opine what they are.Link to comment
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oldiesman
Danny
I think he earned a doctorate, only problem is, the institution he earned it from wasn't accredited. That was his fault, so if folks like you say he didn't earn it, so be it.Have you thought about or do you realize that the difference between a state accredited institution, and a non-accredited institution, may have nothing to do with the actual workload or curriculum, but may be something as simple as a few thousand dollars paid to the state, to get the license?
Still, since Victor Paul was either too lazy, distracted, or poor to go to a state accredited institution, your contention that his doctorate isn't valid has merit.
If you're referring to PFAL, I believe God worked in him to adapt it from the various teachings he learned from other men of God scattered across the continent, coupled with what he himself learned from his own study. Was it God Breathed? no. Did he get it by revelation? no. Doesn't make it any less godly, though. Just summarizing:His godly side: He was a Christian with a tremendous ability to teach God's Word and convey upon the listeners, respect for the written word. His dark side: he engaged in sexual harassment and adultery, plagiarism, drinking/smoking; at various times with a mean and condescending demeanor.
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vickles
OM,
You need to realize that people in twi came from all walks of life. Not all knew that the mog was suppose to keep their pants zipped.
Also, for women its totally different..you need to place yourself in their shoes. If they were taught that it was a sin to mess with a married man before twi and then learned to trust it would change everything.
They trusted their mog totally. I know as a singe woman in most of the years I was in twi, twi I was taught to service the mog. My service wasn't sexual but I know a friend of mine was. She was totally devestated by it. It took time for it to begin. When she revealed what was going on to me she was at a point of having a nervous breakdown.
It was totally different for a woman we were primed for it and it did take time.
Trust is a big thing here, om...even if we were taught differently, it changes after years of indoctrination.
Also, we are not just talking about a married man. We are talking about a person that was suppose to be a mog. Men we thought were walking for God.
I remember being told several times through the years that if a mog tells you to jump off the cliff not to ask questions just jump. God would protect you if that mog was wrong because it was God's will for us to do whatever the mog wanted.
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Steve!
Vick, you are asking WAAAAYYYY too much of oldiesman to ask him to put himself in someone else's shoes. That is WAAAAYYYY beyond his capabilities.
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vickles
Steve,
I was hoping he had a human side to him...
:(-->
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Tom Strange
Vickles, of course he has a human side... It's just tiring beating against the concrete wall that is his head...
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rascal
Vickles ... I was taught the same thing:-( Do what the leader says because he walks for God...and IF he is wrong, God HAS to cover and protect you....
No I was never aproached sexually by a Mog...but my wow sister was...Some of what I WAS asked/required to do by leaders... that were never the less soul wrenching...( some suggestions of course were tougher than others to obey) .. were to sell the horses that I dearly loved...stop working in the mounted possee which I enjoyed tremendously...... get rid of my wonderfull faithfull Dogs that had traveled with me throughout my ten plus years in twi....leave my family..sell my car to my tc for next to nothing leaving myself without transportation.....and worst of all abort my child...
I cannot express the misery endured ...the soul wrenching heart breaking shame of being required to follow some of these instructions....
EACH one of these decisions were agreed too brokenly...after much agonizing over what my debt and responsibility to God were.....
EACH went against what I wanted or believed to be right... each agreed to in the end because I knew that God required me to obey these men...
However .....as horribly wrong as each decision was...as desperatly as I didn`t want to do it...as heartbreaking as each decision was to enact and then endure the shame and consequences of...when my mind and heart screamed at how wrong it was....I did it...brokenly ...sickend to the depths of my soul....because above all else...Iwas afraid to disobey and dissapoint God...I was afraid of the consequences of not being meek...
To disobey my leader was a finger in the face of God and I was made to feel that I owed him a whole lot more than that.
Oldies...I say it again in all honesty...no dramtics......I would have found a loaded gun to have been a whole lot less intimidating.
Physical death held no fear for me... spiritual degredation, however...spiritual posession... contamination of the body of Christ with my vileness as the consequences of not being meek...of being rebellious or stiff necked......was terrifying.
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rascal
I was taught that it was all emotions as well...even when I didn`t WANT to do something ...it was just my emotions/5 sense *tricking* me not to be my best for God...I could listen to my 5 senses or I could be spiritually pleasing to God by my obediance...
I also was taught that if I felt something was drastically wrong with what a leader was asking me to do...it was simply satan just trying to trick me into not doing what God needed...two choices ..comply with leaderships request or allow satan to defeat me and God...
Last but not least...if I ever DID manage to have a little backbone...I was treated very badly....I had been tricked...I was in danger of posession...and others should keep their distance less the be likewise in peril....I never wanted to put my friends...loved ones...the very body of christ in danger because I was being stiff necked.
The psychological hold that they held was ultimate......I want to say as well, that the power the leader weilded...was not because we were weak or imoral or undisciplined....the choices we made were terribly difficult....It was never easy...
Oldies and for you to intimate that it is because we were weak or should have known better is yet another slap in the face...
These guys HAD the power and they used it to hurt...rather than to work for good..they had a choice...their actions depict just EXACTLY what kind of men they were...and it wasn`t men of the spirit.
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vickles
((((((((((rascal)))))))))))
I too was ordered to have an abortion. Although, I didn't have one I lived in guilt waiting for what they told me to happen. Leader**** told me that my baby would either have a serious birth defect or born again of the wrong seed.
There are things I've been told to do from the mog that I did and still sometimes the old stuff of the past comes to haunt me. I believed at the time that it was from God only to find out that it wasn't from God but from men that only wanted to control me.
I got in twi as a teen and I guess that was the most vulnerable time as I didn't know things of the world. I had been sheltered all my life and was pretty innocent. So when the mog said that you were suppose to jump I did thinking my life would be blessed.
About having my baby though it did have an effect on me. My daughter has bipolar and I have/had lived in guilt for many years thinking it was my fault. But I have to tell you that she is a christian and loves God with all her heart. Still to this day it still comes to haunt me. She is 17 years old now.
Although, in my heart I know that it was not from God what the mog told me to do it still bothers me.
I still remember some leaders that did come on to me but really I was so innocent that I didn't even know it and so didn't respond. Now that I'm a lot older I realize what it was but at the time didn't even know.
If I hadn't been so sheltered and so innocent I may have been one of those that would have succumbed to all the physical abuse.
Gosh, OM I just have a hard time believing that you don't realize what was and still is going on with twi. Either your a pretty dense guy or your living in a state of total denial. I'm sorry, I don't mean to put you down but really, it was all around you and you didn't even see it?
You still believe after all this time that women really wanted to have sex with a wrinkled old man? Gross!!!!
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vickles
Yes, the five senses stuff. I remember only too well. I remember feeling bad about stuff the mog told me to do and was told that it was like being sick and my body having to upchuck it to get the poisen out. That I needed to get rid of the five senses thinking.
Now if you believed the five senses stuff was not something to keep because it was poisen and was told to sevice the mog, the poisen would be that you were thinking bad thoughts of servicing and would have to throw out those thoughts and just do it.
So OM even though it didn't make any sense but was told these things over the years wouldn't it be that these things actually did happen and is a form of abuse?
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rascal
awww damn (((vick)) I know how frightened you must have been....bless you for having the guts to do what was right...I know the cost.
I was a young naieve teen as well...with a parent who had no time or inclination to teach me what was right or wrong...then here comes twi teaching me about God...teaching me the bible...loving me...giving me a purpose...God needed me in the spiritual battle...I was important....I was a good person...all things desperatly longed for by a naieve lonely teen...
So when the doctrine got a little strange...I still believed them...I mean shoot they were the onces who taught me about God...they HAD to be right..right?? And though I agonized over what was being demanded...there was no other choice in my mind...I had no one else ..I had long since been encouraged to cut ties with *natural* family and friends who would distract me from God and his word....anyone who might have been able to help me understand that God didn`t require me to forsake things of importance.. they were all long gone from my life...
Oh and ditto the GROOOOOSS concerning *doing* the wrinkled old fart...or an entertaining threesome with old big haid...
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vickles
I don't think om realizes the humiliation that women went through if they didn't follow through.
I was called upon in front of the whole corps and screamed at railed at. I was devestated. It does something to your psych when you are so degraded.
Women were so second class in twi. Doncha know that we were there just for the mog?
You know after 17 years you would think I would be totally away from all this and then something hits me and then its there all of a sudden. But it gets less intense as time goes on.
OM, as a woman if you didn't follow through with things you were outcast. You really did lose everything if you had been in twi for many years. I was totally dependant on twi. I had separated from my family and friends. I did keep in touch with one friend but she totally didn't understand what I was in. So to leave twi was something that was not in the cards for me for many years.
I was scared of leaving that the hedge of protection would not be there when I left twi. Since I would not be ABSing to twi I totally believed that I would die.
So when I did leave I was waiting to die. I had finally gotten to the place of willing to die rather than be in that position of twi anymore.
When I left all my loved ones that I thought was family in twi turned on me and it was said I was possessed. I really believed that they were still the mog and believed that I was possessed for many years.
Call me stupid if you want. I say I was very gullible and vulnerable.
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rascal
I have got to say it....It just blows my MIND that you oldies and john want to defend these amoral creeps simply because they taught you a little *word*....
Guys...They HURT people...They USED people...They TOOK what was not theirs... People were destroyed because of their actions...Can you not see it??? These are NOT guys who worked for God....He just didn`t teach us in the bible to behave that way...They decieved us...drew us away from the true love that God had for us...
Think about who`s purpose YOU are serving in defending and minimalizing the damage these people did to folks who simply wanted to love and serve God:-(
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vickles
And fyi om, rascal is not being dramatic. This stuff is real and honest.
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excathedra
I remember talking to a really wonderful girl who had been on her interim corps wow year. The Evil Forehead came through town and “chose” her. Anyway, he told her how special she was -- honored, in a way -- and that God was so pleased and proud because she could handle “this” and “bless” him which enabled him to do God’s work. You know -- lifted such a burden from him as he traveled around doing the tough work of the ministry.
Well she believed this for a while, but eventually had a mental breakdown.
This could sound like BS now since I’m older and not in a cult. But I remember what it was like. And I also know there were many similar stories.
Hey, I’m really sorry rascal and vickles for your hurts. Many hugs to you.
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rascal
Gullible, naieve, vulnerable, trusting...That indeed is what we were .........NOT whores...eager for a romp with a mog.
These leaders took advantage of our trust...they used the authority garnered as a representative for God to put us at ease...to bypass our internal alarms......
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vickles
oh yes, excie, I forgot about the reason to service the mog. It was so they could do Gods work. That we were to bless the mog so they could continue to help others. Sick!!!!!
Thanks for the hug!!!!
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vickles
John and OM, this is not group thinking. This stuff is real!!!!
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