Well, hell's bells---I can't for the life of me figure out what it was that I wrote late last night, and then just a few minutes ago, that caused them to refuse to post my replies. I'd appreciate it if one of the moderators would help me to avoid these, "trigger words" in the future. This has never happened to me before.
"By the way™, TWI was originally denied their trademark for The Way because another group was using it for their publication The Way Magazine. TWI had to get the other group's trademark cancelled first."
Oh Really!? And just how was TWI able to "CANCEL THE OTHER GROUP'S TRADEMARK FIRST"? No wonder they've been struttin' around like the eight hundred pound gorilla. Obviously they feel that they've got the clout to subdue any challenge to their "trademark" if they can effectively steal someone elses with impunity.
quote:If TWI's trademark "The Way" is ruled invalid and cancelled as it will be, the entire case disappears because they have no basis for a complaint.Proving their trademark is invalid will not be difficult.
I agree with you, that TWI's tradmark on "The Way" should be canceled. That it will "not be difficult" is yet to be seen and a rather niave attitude IMO. I would not count my eggs before they hatch, especially since you do not have experienced legal counsel representing you, which is my opinion is a grave mistake.
And, if it will be so easy then why did you abandon your TM application for "The Way of Christ" and let TWI win that one by default? I do hope you stick to it this time though, and that you also secure and keep some competant legal counsel this time in order to shore up your case.
However, getting TWI's "The Way" trademark canceled will not make their claim against you for cybersquatting or registering thewayintnational.com in bad faith go away. They are separate issues. I hope you can at least see that.
quote:I would not count my eggs before they hatch, especially since you do not have experienced legal counsel representing you, which is my opinion is a grave mistake.
I am not counting, but am confident in the truth. I have no choice about having an attorney. I simply do not have the funds to hire one, which TWI knew when they filed the lawsuit hoping for an easy win.
quote:And, if it will be so easy then why did you abandon your TM application for "The Way of Christ" and let TWI win that one by default?
I couldn't afford the lawyer, and hadn't taken any law classes at the time. Now I can do legal research myself. I also voluntarily withdrew my application. It was not a default win for TWI.
And no false ego here. I know I put on quite a show in the first thread. It was just that. A calculated bluff to get TWI to back off.
I know I don't have the knowledge of an experienced attorney. However, years ago when I considered cancelling TWI's trademarks, I talked over how to do it with an experienced trademark attorney.
I should have done it then, but didn't want to be the aggressor.
quote:cybersquatting or registering thewayintnational.com in bad faith
I didn't register the domain name in bad faith. I know some people keep saying so, but that isn't the case. Cybersquatting asumes that there is a valid trademark that was the domain name. TWI's trademarks are invalid...
If you can prove in a court of law that ALL of their trademarks are invalid, you'll have performed quite a feat. And if you somehow manage to out-finesse all their very capable and high powered attorneys, it should qualify as a Vatican recognized miracle. But best of luck!
I still really want to know how TWI managed to "CANCEL" that other ministry's trademark and register "The Way" as their own? You've got to admit, that was pretty amazing. And you're going up against this machine....?
quote:If you can prove in a court of law that ALL of their trademarks are invalid, you'll have performed quite a feat.
Not really cc. There are so many people using The Way that it is an almost natural conclusion that TWI's trademark is generic and therefore invalid. The feat is me doing this on my own without very much support or a lawyer.
quote:I still really want to know how TWI managed to "CANCEL" that other ministry's trademark and register "The Way" as their own? You've got to admit, that was pretty amazing. And you're going up against this machine....?
To the best of my recollection, TWI claimed to have been using The Way in commerce longer. There was nothing spectacular about this. Just mean and selfish...
Naive? Are you that delusional to think that TWI hates you and has it out for you more than all the other sites that expose them? Why haven’t they gone after this site, empire.net or your pal? What about JAL and CES, a simple search and what pops up first?
Unless you have some other reason they have gone after you other than their lawyers believed there was a chance to win over the way of Christ mark issue, you just might be suffering from an over inflated ego and not everyone is going to let you blow smoke up their skirt and buy it.
TWI has staff that constantly monitor web sites, for what? Just to see what is being said? Ridiculous! They also look for any possible way to legally bring a stop to those sites. You backed off the way of Christ domain, smart move. Then you gave lame excuses for changing the ex-way site to ex-cult, but that was also a smart move. But then you activate The Way International domain and link it to your site. Just asking for trouble!
Cry, whine, and scream about your rights and being in the right; because of this martyr complex you always conclude is behind disagreements and court cases cripples your ability to think critically and makes you an easy mark!
TWI is going after you because your actions have given them legal reasons, get over yourself!
quote:Then you gave lame excuses for changing the ex-way site to ex-cult,
Again, you have no clue. Just the same old wild assumptions. We changed the name because we were not just about TWI anymore. With the addition of www.caicusa.org we became more cult orientated.
Where would you get the ridiculous idea that the name change was because of TWI? Absolutely absurd like many of your accusations that you make without any shred of real proof.
From a follower of the WAy I received a copy of an article with the above caption. Naturally I was Interested and I know you must be also. I have noticed in my teaching travels across the country that there are a number of groups who refer to themselves as "THE WAY". I just recently heard of a radio broadcast called "The WAy" I have a small publication in my office which is being circulated rather widely in northern Ohio, published by a group called "The Way".It is such a wonderful name and everyone who is a Christian is entitled to call himself "The Way". - Victor Paul Wierwille
Pat your stuff is On The Way sorry couldn't resist. Still looking for the audio.
TWI's trademark is NOT invalid. It will only be invalid when the Court or the USPTO delcares it invalid. As of 1981/82 both of TWI's "The Way" trade/servicemarks are quite valid. You have to prove to the Court that they were obtained improperly/fraudulently - or they they have become generic. Then the Court will rule as to whether they should be canceled or not. As far as the Court sees it they are quite valid until it is proven oherwise. You cannot simply delcare them invalid.
For what it's worth Pat, I see quite a few holes in TWI's case against you, however in reading your countersuit, I do not see where you have addressed some of them adequately or even at all.
And Pat, for goodness sake, instead of running off about your tactics and strategies here in this public forum, why not ask for some help/advise via private topics or private email. You may be surprised at the repsonse.
You may get some sympathy and encouragement here in this open forum, but that is not going to help you with this case.
You need legal help and honest objective opions, and you need to be humble enough and objective enough to at least consider them.
Absolutely, my bad. The biggest mistake was to think that you might have actually done something smart to protect your work and the work of all your contributors.
What is more important to you? Being *right* and not *bullied* by TWI or the work that you and all those involved in that *we* you use?
Courts are very risky business and there are to many variables of law and in the courts to know the out come. You are gambling, rolling the dice and what is at stake?
What proof do you have that it was personal when they came after you? Or is that just another of your wild assumptions?
Also, what steps have you taken to protect your contributors and donors?
Maybe you need to remember your personal feelings do not play into what the courts may decide in your case.
You feel strongly for a reason. everyone does in court that is how people end up in the mess !
the courts are not set up for a righteous cause or even a right and wrong decision , many get away with much "wrong", in court.
The reason lawyers are hated is because a skilled lawyer is well trained to manipulate the so called "facts" and evidence of a case to appear in any manner they think will prevail in the case.
fair play does not count , skill does and wins the day.
I do not believe for a second TWI would take on this if they doubted the strength of their position and have been assured of a positive outcome. You on the other hand Pat sound like a man who wants justice from a very corrupt organization . think about it they amassed millions of dollars without a breath for feelings about the small guy or what is right or wrong moraly do ya think they will fail themselves now? maybe you should think again. The courts do not invest in time and place for all the emotions you think should be included in just why your right and they may be wrong . Yes you may win I believe that is possible , but I also think it is possible they may win .
quote:Also, what steps have you taken to protect your contributors and donors?
TWI didn't sue Ex-Cultworld because it is a Corporation and legal entity. I keep no records of donations anyway. As far as contribibutors, people are entitled to their opinions under the first ammendment. TWI cannot touch that.
Your bringing this up is only for the purpose of making people afraid of helping because "TWI might find out about them". How lame is your making an issue out of something that isn't an issue.
quote:you can invite as many people as you want to a private topic. you could probably add them as you go along
like, start a thread asking if anyone has advice, to let you know, and then invite them
Good idea excathedra. As I have exhasted what has been stated in the public records, to go further and maybe inadvertently reveal upcoming strategy would be foolish.
All further discussions will be by private topic. Thanks ex
WhiteDove: Thanks for your help. Look forward to your package.
Goey: Thank you for the constructive help with the links. I was looking for the trademark practice one, so your posting was very helpful.By the way, the reasons I quited in my countersuit for cancelling TWI's trademarks are from the area you referred me to.:)-->
quote:You need legal help and honest objective opions, and you need to be humble enough and objective enough to at least consider them.
I am all ears for any real help. The berating and put downs disguised as help I don't care about.
Examples like what you posted and whitedove is sending and the help Mark S. has provided by e-mail is what I need, not put downs. Thanks
I keep hearing the accusation, but there is no real substance behind it. Like a worn grove in a record, you keep making these statements without any proof or backing.
quote:I do not believe for a second TWI would take on this if they doubted the strength of their position and have been assured of a positive outcome.
Lawyers do it all the time for clients who have virtually no case. If the client wishes to pay, the lawyer does the deed.
In this case, Vermont has judges who are ethical and a court system that is very Pro Se litigant friendly due to the large number of people who are their own lawyer.
Skill is nice if you have it or can afford it. But when you don't in the face of this sometimes overwhelming evidence is an effective measure.
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Cherished Child
Here's the one I suspected was the culprit last night..."pi$$ing contest"...
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Cherished Child
Well, hell's bells---I can't for the life of me figure out what it was that I wrote late last night, and then just a few minutes ago, that caused them to refuse to post my replies. I'd appreciate it if one of the moderators would help me to avoid these, "trigger words" in the future. This has never happened to me before.
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Raf
It's Pat's last name.
The safeguard is a relic of a more tense time.
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Cherished Child
Was it, "eight hundred pound gorilla"?
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Raf
Not to his face.
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Cherished Child
Ohhhhhhh.....Thanks, Raf! This is hysterical...
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Cherished Child
"By the way™, TWI was originally denied their trademark for The Way because another group was using it for their publication The Way Magazine. TWI had to get the other group's trademark cancelled first."
Oh Really!? And just how was TWI able to "CANCEL THE OTHER GROUP'S TRADEMARK FIRST"? No wonder they've been struttin' around like the eight hundred pound gorilla. Obviously they feel that they've got the clout to subdue any challenge to their "trademark" if they can effectively steal someone elses with impunity.
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Goey
Pat,
I agree with you, that TWI's tradmark on "The Way" should be canceled. That it will "not be difficult" is yet to be seen and a rather niave attitude IMO. I would not count my eggs before they hatch, especially since you do not have experienced legal counsel representing you, which is my opinion is a grave mistake.
And, if it will be so easy then why did you abandon your TM application for "The Way of Christ" and let TWI win that one by default? I do hope you stick to it this time though, and that you also secure and keep some competant legal counsel this time in order to shore up your case.
However, getting TWI's "The Way" trademark canceled will not make their claim against you for cybersquatting or registering thewayintnational.com in bad faith go away. They are separate issues. I hope you can at least see that.
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pjroberge
And no false ego here. I know I put on quite a show in the first thread. It was just that. A calculated bluff to get TWI to back off.
I know I don't have the knowledge of an experienced attorney. However, years ago when I considered cancelling TWI's trademarks, I talked over how to do it with an experienced trademark attorney.
I should have done it then, but didn't want to be the aggressor.
I didn't register the domain name in bad faith. I know some people keep saying so, but that isn't the case. Cybersquatting asumes that there is a valid trademark that was the domain name. TWI's trademarks are invalid...Link to comment
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Cherished Child
If you can prove in a court of law that ALL of their trademarks are invalid, you'll have performed quite a feat. And if you somehow manage to out-finesse all their very capable and high powered attorneys, it should qualify as a Vatican recognized miracle. But best of luck!
I still really want to know how TWI managed to "CANCEL" that other ministry's trademark and register "The Way" as their own? You've got to admit, that was pretty amazing. And you're going up against this machine....?
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pjroberge
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Grizzy
Naive? Are you that delusional to think that TWI hates you and has it out for you more than all the other sites that expose them? Why haven’t they gone after this site, empire.net or your pal? What about JAL and CES, a simple search and what pops up first?
Unless you have some other reason they have gone after you other than their lawyers believed there was a chance to win over the way of Christ mark issue, you just might be suffering from an over inflated ego and not everyone is going to let you blow smoke up their skirt and buy it.
TWI has staff that constantly monitor web sites, for what? Just to see what is being said? Ridiculous! They also look for any possible way to legally bring a stop to those sites. You backed off the way of Christ domain, smart move. Then you gave lame excuses for changing the ex-way site to ex-cult, but that was also a smart move. But then you activate The Way International domain and link it to your site. Just asking for trouble!
Cry, whine, and scream about your rights and being in the right; because of this martyr complex you always conclude is behind disagreements and court cases cripples your ability to think critically and makes you an easy mark!
TWI is going after you because your actions have given them legal reasons, get over yourself!
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pjroberge
Where would you get the ridiculous idea that the name change was because of TWI? Absolutely absurd like many of your accusations that you make without any shred of real proof.
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WhiteDove
Followers Of THE WAY
From a follower of the WAy I received a copy of an article with the above caption. Naturally I was Interested and I know you must be also. I have noticed in my teaching travels across the country that there are a number of groups who refer to themselves as "THE WAY". I just recently heard of a radio broadcast called "The WAy" I have a small publication in my office which is being circulated rather widely in northern Ohio, published by a group called "The Way".It is such a wonderful name and everyone who is a Christian is entitled to call himself "The Way". - Victor Paul Wierwille
Pat your stuff is On The Way sorry couldn't resist. Still looking for the audio.
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Goey
Well Pat,
TWI's trademark is NOT invalid. It will only be invalid when the Court or the USPTO delcares it invalid. As of 1981/82 both of TWI's "The Way" trade/servicemarks are quite valid. You have to prove to the Court that they were obtained improperly/fraudulently - or they they have become generic. Then the Court will rule as to whether they should be canceled or not. As far as the Court sees it they are quite valid until it is proven oherwise. You cannot simply delcare them invalid.
I hope you get very familiar with Title 15 Chapter 22 Of the US Code -- especially with Subchapter I Sec. 1064 which deals with Cancellation of Registration.
You will also need to understand the RULES OF PRACTICE IN TRADEMARK CASES
For what it's worth Pat, I see quite a few holes in TWI's case against you, however in reading your countersuit, I do not see where you have addressed some of them adequately or even at all.
And Pat, for goodness sake, instead of running off about your tactics and strategies here in this public forum, why not ask for some help/advise via private topics or private email. You may be surprised at the repsonse.
You may get some sympathy and encouragement here in this open forum, but that is not going to help you with this case.
You need legal help and honest objective opions, and you need to be humble enough and objective enough to at least consider them.
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excathedra
you can invite as many people as you want to a private topic. you could probably add them as you go along
like, start a thread asking if anyone has advice, to let you know, and then invite them
**
plus it would drive john linder crazy
;)-->
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Grizzy
Absolutely, my bad. The biggest mistake was to think that you might have actually done something smart to protect your work and the work of all your contributors.
What is more important to you? Being *right* and not *bullied* by TWI or the work that you and all those involved in that *we* you use?
Courts are very risky business and there are to many variables of law and in the courts to know the out come. You are gambling, rolling the dice and what is at stake?
What proof do you have that it was personal when they came after you? Or is that just another of your wild assumptions?
Also, what steps have you taken to protect your contributors and donors?
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mj412
I agree with Grizzy.
Maybe you need to remember your personal feelings do not play into what the courts may decide in your case.
You feel strongly for a reason. everyone does in court that is how people end up in the mess !
the courts are not set up for a righteous cause or even a right and wrong decision , many get away with much "wrong", in court.
The reason lawyers are hated is because a skilled lawyer is well trained to manipulate the so called "facts" and evidence of a case to appear in any manner they think will prevail in the case.
fair play does not count , skill does and wins the day.
I do not believe for a second TWI would take on this if they doubted the strength of their position and have been assured of a positive outcome. You on the other hand Pat sound like a man who wants justice from a very corrupt organization . think about it they amassed millions of dollars without a breath for feelings about the small guy or what is right or wrong moraly do ya think they will fail themselves now? maybe you should think again. The courts do not invest in time and place for all the emotions you think should be included in just why your right and they may be wrong . Yes you may win I believe that is possible , but I also think it is possible they may win .
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pjroberge
Your bringing this up is only for the purpose of making people afraid of helping because "TWI might find out about them". How lame is your making an issue out of something that isn't an issue.
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pjroberge
All further discussions will be by private topic. Thanks ex
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pjroberge
WhiteDove: Thanks for your help. Look forward to your package.
Goey: Thank you for the constructive help with the links. I was looking for the trademark practice one, so your posting was very helpful.By the way, the reasons I quited in my countersuit for cancelling TWI's trademarks are from the area you referred me to.
:)-->
I am all ears for any real help. The berating and put downs disguised as help I don't care about.Examples like what you posted and whitedove is sending and the help Mark S. has provided by e-mail is what I need, not put downs. Thanks
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pjroberge
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pjroberge
In this case, Vermont has judges who are ethical and a court system that is very Pro Se litigant friendly due to the large number of people who are their own lawyer.
Skill is nice if you have it or can afford it. But when you don't in the face of this sometimes overwhelming evidence is an effective measure.
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LG
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