Am I missing something here? How is it that The Way can claim Trademark Infringement with out having a legal Trademark? Why are'nt they going after the aforementioned Indiana based ministry with the strikingly similar name?
If Pat changed his domain name to, "The Way International Exposed.com", who around here believes that Rosie and Company wouldn't march right back into court, claiming some sort of Trademark violation? It's Pat's A$$ they want to see roasting on a spit, not anybody elses---not even their competition in Indiana.
When a person or parties have legitimate legal cases against TWI, I am all for it. But despite what I think, my opinion of a group; I fully support the freedoms we are granted by our constitution. Freedom of worship is a very big deal to me, as freedom of speech and the right to arm bears!
Black and white cultic thinking is repulsive to me. The inability to logically and constructively think thinks through while claiming intelligence and a well rounded
knowledge makes me cringe and reminds me of snow jobs I should have seen coming but swallowed hook, line and sinker.
You mentioned the fact the finances were posted on that site. So, what part does the money play in this whole she-bang? TWI points out the ability to collect $$$ on the site, and that their domain name was used to direct people to where they could donate to someone other than TWI.
What do you think TWI lawyers first move will be? How about full disclosure of finances and all contributors? How about the names of all involved with the site?
How far is the owner willing to go to defend these things? Sure easy to say in no way will I ever hand that info over! Or what if there has been no money exchanged? Further more when did the ability to collect the $$ show up on the site?
Anyway, a few months of jail can easily change the conviction of a person. Especially when that person hasn’t tried lock-up for an extended period of time. So to protect the identity of people, it is easily forfeit or contempt of court and TWI wins. If their legal strategy goes that way and I do believe their track record indicates it will. But there is also the possibility any contributors would be supportive of full disclosure if this strategy is prepared for.
But back to cultic thinking, the black and white type. Do you think TWI owns the Way JC? They would answer, of course not silly; but we do own the rights to the name The Way International and you knew it from the years you spent involved.
TWI does have a trademark. They have 2 registered trademarks on "The Way" (not The Way International).
TWI is claiming trademark infringment againt the "The Way" which is registered and also against "The Way International", which is not yet registered.
My guess is that TWI will indeed file suit against this Illinois based ministry, since this is same the party that has filed the official opposition with the USPTO against TWI's application to register "The Way International" as a trademark.
According to the USPTO TWI has filed against others, claiming exclusive use of "The Way".
My opinion on all this is that PR did indeed register "thewayinternationl.com" in bad faith and has no right to it regardless of trademark claims.
But I also think that TWI should not have the exclusive right to use "The Way".
In the case that Longone referenced there is an interesting comment by the WIBPO Panelist:
quote:In the context of religious instruction and education both parts of the Domain Name are apposite. "Ministry" describes the operational activity of both parties and "The Way" is derived from the Gospel according to St. John, Chapter 14, verse 6 which reads "Jesus said to him ‘I am the way, and the truth and the life’".
In that context, there can be no doubt that The Way Ministry is similar to The Way. If, as the Complainant claims, "The Way" means the Complainant in the context of a ministry, then manifestly, there is serious scope for confusion. However, it seems to the Panel somewhat extraordinary that a Christian organization can assert "I am The Way" in the face of Jesus’ claim to the same effect – possible scope for an interesting trade mark battle in another place and at another time.
I think that sometime n the future TWI could lose it's trademark for "The Way". That is of course assuming the right Plantiff, and that they have experienced and competent legal representation.
TWIs rights are not infringed at all by Roberge's ownership of the website they let go and, mind you, forfeited for so many years until they "decided" that the internet was a good idea. Everybody but TWI should have sucked up those domain names becuae, and I remember specifically, forbidding us to use the internet because of its "evil" nature.
I wish I had that tape. I'd ship it off to Pat. TWI loses no money or forfeits any money whatsoever by having that domain name. His site clearly states he is not TWI. No one would accidently give TWIs money to his site.
Other churches lose their .com because someone else has it. They just do a .org or .net and just go on. TWI just wants to hurt Pat, Ex-Cultworld, and shut down his site by suing him.
It's probably high time for many of us to go after TWI for all that abuse and scam they put us all through. Perhaps we should be filing suit after suit against TWI.
They are no church, no ministry, and should lose tax-exempt status to boot because, they don't think or act like a "church" or "ministry". They act more like a religious business.
One thing I was thinking about (and I could be wrong)...
If twi was planning on "going after" other groups and/or individuals who they think are infringing on there "trademark"...
It seems to me, that they would start small with cases that they believe that they have a very good chance of winning. By haveing a "winning record" of these types of court cases, this might help them in the more difficult challanges that they might see in the future.
IMO, twi might be "testing the waters" on this case. If twi loses, they don't lose that much. If they win, they build momemtum towards a more difficult case in the future.
Ownership of a trademark is not dependent upon registration of that mark. THE WAY INTERNATIONAL is a valid trademark, which TWI has been using since the mid-seventies.
Many of the legal protections of trademark rights are not dependent upon registration. Of the four counts in TWI’s complaint, only Count 1 depends on the marks being registered. In particular, the cybersquatting count would be valid even if TWI had never registered any trademarks.
Do you really think TWI is prepared to engage in a pi$$ing contest with EVERY christian organization currently using the words, "The Way" in their title? Sure, they could probably easily back down ones with modest resourses, but there are others who could probably far outlast them in a legal battle.
For one thing, it is beyond hubris that a so called "Christian ministry" would claim exclusive rights to the term, "The Way". Only Jesus Christ himself can logically put forth such a claim in the context of christianity. I would be surprised if most of christendom wouldn't be insulted by such an outrageous claim on the part of TWI---perhaps to the end that many of them would feel that its in their vested interest to fight this claim. Undoubtedly, the above mentioned Indiana ministry has more resources at its desposal to fight TWI in court than does our Pat Roberge. In fact, TWI is held in such contempt among other Christian organizations, that many of them might be willing to pool their resources in order to fight TWI's claims of exclusivity. Rosie and Co. may be able to posture themselves as "the eight hundred pound gorilla", when going up against a single individual of modest resourses, but it could end of being a whole 'nutha ballgame, if they decide to pick a fight with the wrong bunch of folks. In any case, it will indeed be interesting to see how this all plays out.
The money point is not about people donating thinking it would be going to TWI. Collecting donations on a site that uses or used someone else’s legal name to attract traffic crosses the line from questionable practice into illegal. Then to place that domain name up for sale, according to what Paw posted a while back on that other thread has crossed the legal lines again.
This is not about TWI having a personal agenda against the defendant, that is a ridiculous claim. This is about a person’s personal agenda against TWI that thought they were being smart by taking that domain name then using it against them. Once the line was crossed by collecting donations and offering that domain name up for sale, this was placed into TWI’s court.
The argument does not stand that this is personal because of it is only his site they are going after. His site is the only one they can go after because of his actions. His right to freedom of speech was forfeited when he chose to use a domain name they could contest. The name The Way of Christ would have never been contested had it strictly been used for anything but an anti-way site.
As far as all of us filing suit, I have better things to do with my time and money than to cry over spilt milk. If someone has a legitimate case, by all means go for it! But, picking fights is not a wise way to live IMHO. Especially when the person picking the fight does it in a manner they have no chance of winning..........
If TWI's trademark "The Way" is ruled invalid and cancelled as it will be, the entire case disappears because they have no basis for a complaint.Proving their trademark is invalid will not be difficult.
Your Alice in wonderland view that all the 3rd party "infringers" with The Way in their name or title such as 200+ religious books, or 250+ religious groups including 14 in Ohio, or 100+ websites, and 1400+ trademarks using The Way for all types of goods makes your statement that these are irrelevent facts shows that your "analysis of law" is truly absurd.
I would like to see TWI's attorneys try to tell the judge with a straight face that all these "infringers" are irrelevant to my case.
TWI's case also hinges on whether their trademark The Way is famous and worthy of protection across class of goods boundaries. The only way TWI could prove this would be if only wayfers were asked. Nobody on the street would be able to say who they are.
My use was in class 42 or 38 of services and TWI's main trademark is in class 41. That is why I had preliminary approval from the Trademark Office who found no conflicting trademarks, including TWI's .
quote:The money point is not about people donating thinking it would be going to TWI. Collecting donations on a site that uses or used someone else’s legal name to attract traffic crosses the line from questionable practice into illegal. Then to place that domain name up for sale, according to what Paw posted a while back on that other thread has crossed the legal lines again.
Baloney. The use was to a page that asked if the person wanted to go to TWI's corporate website, or to a source of info about TWI.
Donations are made on the main website. And when someone does make a donation, it clearly says it is for Ex-Cultworld Magazine, Inc.
I had every right to sell the domain name. TWI does not have any valid claim to the domain name just because they are called TWI like dozens of other businesses.....
quote:This is not about TWI having a personal agenda against the defendant, that is a ridiculous claim.
Are you really that naive Grizzy or are you doing your normal put down of Ex-Cultworld Magagazine / Pat ahem.. routine?
quote:The name The Way of Christ would have never been contested had it strictly been used for anything but an anti-way site.
Wrong again. They sued a group named The Way Christian Ministries who had no idea who TWI was until they were sued.
Eagle- I think I still have a box of SNS tapes from about '92 till about '96. Was the statement made during that period and about when? One of last things I remember hearing on the tapes was that they might do someting with the internet in two or three years after they had gotten finances squared away beause of making all corpse staff.
Oh, you missed all the DON'T GO NEAR THE INTERNET fun then! :D-->
In 1998/99 (there were only a few sites such as TranceNet, No Way Out, John Juedes and surprisingly, just about the same time as Waydale started up) TWI came out with a completely ANTI INTERNET stand and directive.
The limb/household fellowship coordinators in most states personally questioned every local area believer as to if they 1) had internet access, 2) used it for entertainment 3) had ever visited an ExWay internet site or had someone recommend to them that they visit and ExWay site.
The former administrator of Waydale had formerly been on staff at hq in their computer services department and had "reportedly" tried numerous times to encourage twi to get PROACTIVELY involved in the internet, and purchase various domain names.
Guess which "prophet" was right? ;)-->
ROR
ChasUFarley? Do you remember your internet interrogation? I only remember mine making me sick to my stomach.
If TWI's trademark "The Way" is ruled invalid and cancelled as it will be, the entire case disappears because they have no basis for a complaint.Proving their trademark is invalid will not be difficult.
Your Alice in wonderland view...
Fine, Pat. You go make the entire case disappear. I'll hang out here in Wonderland with Alice, who read your signature and thinks that you will find the affair “hardly enjoyable” but not for the reasons you think.
Actually Goey, this is yet another group using a similar name.
The group I was referring to is in Louisiana? and they basically told TWI to shove it and didn't take the lawsuit seriously.
Unfortunatly TWI won by default and got the court to require that the church turn over all their materials including I believe their church sign for TWI to destroy.
I'd much rather go down swinging than to just give up and hope TWI will be charitible. They don't understand the concept......
By the way, TWI was originally denied their trademark for The Way because another group was using it for their publication The Way Magazine. TWI had to get the other group's trademark cancelled first. A true example of Christian charity.....
"By the way, TWI was originally denied their trademark for The Way because another group was using it for their publication The Way Magazine. TWI had to get the other group's trademark cancelled first. A true example of Christian charity....."
Really!? And how did they "get the other group's trademark CANCELLED first"? That must have been a pretty neat legal trick! No wonder they're struttin' around like the eight hundred pound gorilla. Obviously, if they can pull that one off successfully, they have reason to believe they'll be successful in any number of other challenges to their "trademark".
I suspect the only "way" to stop them may be for several mainstream Christian organizations to band together and challenge TWI's claims of exclusivity. Surely, TWI has the financial resources to legally "outlast" Pat Roberge, but they are small stuff compared to many other christian ministries. And Several financially strong ministries, banded together, could send TWI to the poor-house, or cause them to back down altogether.
Pat, I'm somewhat intrigued by your "go down swinging" statement. Does this mean that you really believe you're likely to "do down" in this fight against TWI?
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GarthP2000
They do have a much better looking web site, in my professional opinion.
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Cherished Child
Am I missing something here? How is it that The Way can claim Trademark Infringement with out having a legal Trademark? Why are'nt they going after the aforementioned Indiana based ministry with the strikingly similar name?
If Pat changed his domain name to, "The Way International Exposed.com", who around here believes that Rosie and Company wouldn't march right back into court, claiming some sort of Trademark violation? It's Pat's A$$ they want to see roasting on a spit, not anybody elses---not even their competition in Indiana.
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Eagle
I agree with Exie.
And keep this in mind. The Way International is neither "the Way" or "International".
They are a joke.
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Grizzy
Eagle,
When a person or parties have legitimate legal cases against TWI, I am all for it. But despite what I think, my opinion of a group; I fully support the freedoms we are granted by our constitution. Freedom of worship is a very big deal to me, as freedom of speech and the right to arm bears!
Black and white cultic thinking is repulsive to me. The inability to logically and constructively think thinks through while claiming intelligence and a well rounded
knowledge makes me cringe and reminds me of snow jobs I should have seen coming but swallowed hook, line and sinker.
You mentioned the fact the finances were posted on that site. So, what part does the money play in this whole she-bang? TWI points out the ability to collect $$$ on the site, and that their domain name was used to direct people to where they could donate to someone other than TWI.
What do you think TWI lawyers first move will be? How about full disclosure of finances and all contributors? How about the names of all involved with the site?
How far is the owner willing to go to defend these things? Sure easy to say in no way will I ever hand that info over! Or what if there has been no money exchanged? Further more when did the ability to collect the $$ show up on the site?
Anyway, a few months of jail can easily change the conviction of a person. Especially when that person hasn’t tried lock-up for an extended period of time. So to protect the identity of people, it is easily forfeit or contempt of court and TWI wins. If their legal strategy goes that way and I do believe their track record indicates it will. But there is also the possibility any contributors would be supportive of full disclosure if this strategy is prepared for.
But back to cultic thinking, the black and white type. Do you think TWI owns the Way JC? They would answer, of course not silly; but we do own the rights to the name The Way International and you knew it from the years you spent involved.
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Goey
CC,
TWI does have a trademark. They have 2 registered trademarks on "The Way" (not The Way International).
TWI is claiming trademark infringment againt the "The Way" which is registered and also against "The Way International", which is not yet registered.
My guess is that TWI will indeed file suit against this Illinois based ministry, since this is same the party that has filed the official opposition with the USPTO against TWI's application to register "The Way International" as a trademark.
According to the USPTO TWI has filed against others, claiming exclusive use of "The Way".
My opinion on all this is that PR did indeed register "thewayinternationl.com" in bad faith and has no right to it regardless of trademark claims.
But I also think that TWI should not have the exclusive right to use "The Way".
In the case that Longone referenced there is an interesting comment by the WIBPO Panelist:
I think that sometime n the future TWI could lose it's trademark for "The Way". That is of course assuming the right Plantiff, and that they have experienced and competent legal representation.
I hope this helps.
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Raf
Correction.
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Goey
Corrected
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Eagle
Grizzy:
TWIs rights are not infringed at all by Roberge's ownership of the website they let go and, mind you, forfeited for so many years until they "decided" that the internet was a good idea. Everybody but TWI should have sucked up those domain names becuae, and I remember specifically, forbidding us to use the internet because of its "evil" nature.
I wish I had that tape. I'd ship it off to Pat. TWI loses no money or forfeits any money whatsoever by having that domain name. His site clearly states he is not TWI. No one would accidently give TWIs money to his site.
Other churches lose their .com because someone else has it. They just do a .org or .net and just go on. TWI just wants to hurt Pat, Ex-Cultworld, and shut down his site by suing him.
It's probably high time for many of us to go after TWI for all that abuse and scam they put us all through. Perhaps we should be filing suit after suit against TWI.
They are no church, no ministry, and should lose tax-exempt status to boot because, they don't think or act like a "church" or "ministry". They act more like a religious business.
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Zshot
One thing I was thinking about (and I could be wrong)...
If twi was planning on "going after" other groups and/or individuals who they think are infringing on there "trademark"...
It seems to me, that they would start small with cases that they believe that they have a very good chance of winning. By haveing a "winning record" of these types of court cases, this might help them in the more difficult challanges that they might see in the future.
IMO, twi might be "testing the waters" on this case. If twi loses, they don't lose that much. If they win, they build momemtum towards a more difficult case in the future.
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Tom Strange
I agree with Garth, a much better website for the folks from Illinois! Maybe they'd like Pat's domain name?
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LG
Ownership of a trademark is not dependent upon registration of that mark. THE WAY INTERNATIONAL is a valid trademark, which TWI has been using since the mid-seventies.
Many of the legal protections of trademark rights are not dependent upon registration. Of the four counts in TWI’s complaint, only Count 1 depends on the marks being registered. In particular, the cybersquatting count would be valid even if TWI had never registered any trademarks.
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Cherished Child
Do you really think TWI is prepared to engage in a pi$$ing contest with EVERY christian organization currently using the words, "The Way" in their title? Sure, they could probably easily back down ones with modest resourses, but there are others who could probably far outlast them in a legal battle.
For one thing, it is beyond hubris that a so called "Christian ministry" would claim exclusive rights to the term, "The Way". Only Jesus Christ himself can logically put forth such a claim in the context of christianity. I would be surprised if most of christendom wouldn't be insulted by such an outrageous claim on the part of TWI---perhaps to the end that many of them would feel that its in their vested interest to fight this claim. Undoubtedly, the above mentioned Indiana ministry has more resources at its desposal to fight TWI in court than does our Pat Roberge. In fact, TWI is held in such contempt among other Christian organizations, that many of them might be willing to pool their resources in order to fight TWI's claims of exclusivity. Rosie and Co. may be able to posture themselves as "the eight hundred pound gorilla", when going up against a single individual of modest resourses, but it could end of being a whole 'nutha ballgame, if they decide to pick a fight with the wrong bunch of folks. In any case, it will indeed be interesting to see how this all plays out.
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Grizzy
Eagle,
The money point is not about people donating thinking it would be going to TWI. Collecting donations on a site that uses or used someone else’s legal name to attract traffic crosses the line from questionable practice into illegal. Then to place that domain name up for sale, according to what Paw posted a while back on that other thread has crossed the legal lines again.
This is not about TWI having a personal agenda against the defendant, that is a ridiculous claim. This is about a person’s personal agenda against TWI that thought they were being smart by taking that domain name then using it against them. Once the line was crossed by collecting donations and offering that domain name up for sale, this was placed into TWI’s court.
The argument does not stand that this is personal because of it is only his site they are going after. His site is the only one they can go after because of his actions. His right to freedom of speech was forfeited when he chose to use a domain name they could contest. The name The Way of Christ would have never been contested had it strictly been used for anything but an anti-way site.
As far as all of us filing suit, I have better things to do with my time and money than to cry over spilt milk. If someone has a legitimate case, by all means go for it! But, picking fights is not a wise way to live IMHO. Especially when the person picking the fight does it in a manner they have no chance of winning..........
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pjroberge
Long Gone:
If TWI's trademark "The Way" is ruled invalid and cancelled as it will be, the entire case disappears because they have no basis for a complaint.Proving their trademark is invalid will not be difficult.
Your Alice in wonderland view that all the 3rd party "infringers" with The Way in their name or title such as 200+ religious books, or 250+ religious groups including 14 in Ohio, or 100+ websites, and 1400+ trademarks using The Way for all types of goods makes your statement that these are irrelevent facts shows that your "analysis of law" is truly absurd.
I would like to see TWI's attorneys try to tell the judge with a straight face that all these "infringers" are irrelevant to my case.
TWI's case also hinges on whether their trademark The Way is famous and worthy of protection across class of goods boundaries. The only way TWI could prove this would be if only wayfers were asked. Nobody on the street would be able to say who they are.
My use was in class 42 or 38 of services and TWI's main trademark is in class 41. That is why I had preliminary approval from the Trademark Office who found no conflicting trademarks, including TWI's .
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pjroberge
Donations are made on the main website. And when someone does make a donation, it clearly says it is for Ex-Cultworld Magazine, Inc.
I had every right to sell the domain name. TWI does not have any valid claim to the domain name just because they are called TWI like dozens of other businesses.....
Are you really that naive Grizzy or are you doing your normal put down of Ex-Cultworld Magagazine / Pat ahem.. routine? Wrong again. They sued a group named The Way Christian Ministries who had no idea who TWI was until they were sued.Link to comment
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WaywardWayfer
Did TWI win against The Way Christian Ministries? Who else are they suing? How much of our abs is going toward these lawsuits?
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Goey
The Way Christian Ministries is a group out of Stottland. - www.thewaycm.com.
Their site is up and running and they still use "The Way" in their name.
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ckeer
Eagle- I think I still have a box of SNS tapes from about '92 till about '96. Was the statement made during that period and about when? One of last things I remember hearing on the tapes was that they might do someting with the internet in two or three years after they had gotten finances squared away beause of making all corpse staff.
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Radar OReilly
ckeer,
Oh, you missed all the DON'T GO NEAR THE INTERNET fun then!
:D-->
In 1998/99 (there were only a few sites such as TranceNet, No Way Out, John Juedes and surprisingly, just about the same time as Waydale started up) TWI came out with a completely ANTI INTERNET stand and directive.
The limb/household fellowship coordinators in most states personally questioned every local area believer as to if they 1) had internet access, 2) used it for entertainment 3) had ever visited an ExWay internet site or had someone recommend to them that they visit and ExWay site.
The former administrator of Waydale had formerly been on staff at hq in their computer services department and had "reportedly" tried numerous times to encourage twi to get PROACTIVELY involved in the internet, and purchase various domain names.
Guess which "prophet" was right?
;)-->
ROR
ChasUFarley? Do you remember your internet interrogation? I only remember mine making me sick to my stomach.
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LG
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pjroberge
The group I was referring to is in Louisiana? and they basically told TWI to shove it and didn't take the lawsuit seriously.
Unfortunatly TWI won by default and got the court to require that the church turn over all their materials including I believe their church sign for TWI to destroy.
I'd much rather go down swinging than to just give up and hope TWI will be charitible. They don't understand the concept......
By the way, TWI was originally denied their trademark for The Way because another group was using it for their publication The Way Magazine. TWI had to get the other group's trademark cancelled first. A true example of Christian charity.....
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Cherished Child
"By the way, TWI was originally denied their trademark for The Way because another group was using it for their publication The Way Magazine. TWI had to get the other group's trademark cancelled first. A true example of Christian charity....."
Really!? And how did they "get the other group's trademark CANCELLED first"? That must have been a pretty neat legal trick! No wonder they're struttin' around like the eight hundred pound gorilla. Obviously, if they can pull that one off successfully, they have reason to believe they'll be successful in any number of other challenges to their "trademark".
I suspect the only "way" to stop them may be for several mainstream Christian organizations to band together and challenge TWI's claims of exclusivity. Surely, TWI has the financial resources to legally "outlast" Pat Roberge, but they are small stuff compared to many other christian ministries. And Several financially strong ministries, banded together, could send TWI to the poor-house, or cause them to back down altogether.
Pat, I'm somewhat intrigued by your "go down swinging" statement. Does this mean that you really believe you're likely to "do down" in this fight against TWI?
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Cherished Child
Ok, someone tell me what the "trigger words" are...
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Cherished Child
"Go down"
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