Good poing, Zixar. They've done everything they can to DIS-associate themselves with Christianity.
"We are not a church" has been the mantra for years in twi. I remember on one video that lcm said that for "tax purposes" we had to say we were a church, but that we know the TRUE story of what we are. Now I know what he was talking about - we're not a church; we're an abusive cult.
Much as I wonder about some of the arguments that PJ has posted here and how they will fare in court, I do hope he wins and delivers a major blow to twi. I get nervous reading the rebuttals to his posts. It's good for him to get some practice here, but then again, it could be giving the twi(t) lawyers fuel they hadn't considered.
Good point Zixar, and that is what I am trying to do. The trinity point is only a small one of the evidence I will be presenting, not the focus in any way.
quote:but statements that condemn it as a whole, without being subject to judicial-religious interpretation, might be admissable for that claim.
Agreed, and that is the type of evidence that I will be presenting, and more of it with people's help.
Help Needed: GS's that want to help, there is an awful lot of stuff to go through for evidence by myself. TWI has 3 attorneys and two lawfirms doing the deed for them, and I am doing it only with the help of my wife, a loving cat, and friends.
Some of you have already sent me e-mails with clues of where to look and others are making copies. Thanks
If you remember a particular tape or magazine article that mentions the points I need to really nail, could GS's drop me a line? The help would be appreciated. Pat
Look forward to your equally thorough analysis of TWI's complaint. It should be interesting since as you said in a previous thread that you despise them.
Pat,
It's not about despising or not despising any person or organization. It's about more important things, like law and wisdom.
I support your right to publish any opinions you desire and any truthful information you wish about TWI. If that were the issue in a lawsuit, I might even actively help you. But that’s not the issue. You could publish what you want just as effectively without using any form or derivative of "the way" or "the way international" in a name or web address. Actually, you could do it more effectively, because your attempts to use such forms or derivatives have caused you to expend time and money that you could better spend elsewhere.
You have already lost one trademark dispute with TWI. In that one, your position was at least defensible, but you lacked the resources to defend it. Consequently, you wasted quite a bit of time and money, to no avail. In this dispute, your position is indefensible, IMO, and again you lack the resources to defend it, even if it were defensible. TWI, on the other hand, stands on pretty solid legal ground, IMO, and has plenty of resources to defend its position. Legally, I don't think that you should prevail and practically, I don't think that you can prevail.
Since you say (probably sarcastically) that you look forward to it, I may go through TWI’s complaint and comment on it in a future post.
PRO: Pat's right in that "The Way" is pretty diluted as a trademark.
CON: Unfortunately, "The Way International" isn't, and that's what the whole case hinges upon. Probably would have worked for "The Way of Christ", but no chance for "Way International".
PRO: TWI really did/does disparage the beliefs of non-TWI religious groups.
CON: Unfortunately, TWI is a religious group itself, and disparaging the beliefs of other groups is part and parcel of what starting a separate sect is all about. Catholics excommunicate Protestants, Muslims kill Jews, etc. No court will touch that one, and rightly so, under the First Amendment.
PRO: TWI's prohibition against the Internet does work in Pat's favor.
CON: Unless it was written down somewhere, TWI will produce as many witnesses to say there was no prohibition as Pat can produce to say there was.
OK, Pat. Although I doubt if you really wanted this, here are a few comments about TWI's complaint.
Points 1-25: Applicable sections of the U.S. Code are correctly cited. The U.S. District Court, District of Vermont, has jurisdiction as stated and the venue is proper. The parties are as represented. The statements regarding TWI’s history and trademarks are correct, except for a possible minor error or two. Many of the characterizations, which are from TWI’s perspective, are arguable. For example, conduct that TWI considers malicious, Pat does not.
Points 26-34: Essentially correct, except possibly for points 28, 31, and 33. Points 28 and 31 depend on TWI not being previously aware that Pat used "thewayinternational.com" to host or to redirect traffic to “The Way of Christ Ministry” website. The correspondence Pat published regarding the dispute over “The Way of Christ Ministry” (HERE) does not mention an Internet domain. It is possible that Pat has other correspondence that does. Point 33 depends on the cited exhibit being as represented. (I suspect that it is, because it would be foolish to falsely describe the exhibit.)
Counts I-IV (Points 35-60): The citations of law are applicable to the counts. The counts and the points supporting them are arguable, of course, but they are not frivolous. Count III seems pretty obvious to me.
quote:CON: Unfortunately, "The Way International" isn't, and that's what the whole case hinges upon.
Problem for TWI is that they don't own a trademark for the words "The Way International".
They have 4 pending applications for this mark, but there has been an official opposition(lawsuit) filed against them obtaining these new trademarks...
Sadie:
Your way bible is one of the exhibits that I sent the court showing that someone else was using The Way in commerce before TWI's trademark application, on which H.E. Wierwille stated under penalty of law as a corporate representative of TWI that:
quote:1) " ...he believes the corporation to be the owner of the mark sought to be registered", 2) ..."that to the best of his knowledge and belief, no other person, firm, corporation, or association has the right to use the mark in commerce"...
This quote speaks volumes about TWI's arrogance. All these churches, book writers and publishers don't have a right to use "The Way" in commerce? I don't think so....
A little tidbit about TWI's possible history. Have you ever wondered where TWI got the idea for 1) The Way 2) The Way Tree or 3) Power for Abundant Living
Do not forget that in the 1950s (and possibly in the 1940s), Oral Roberts had a magazine entitled "Abundant Life." It was not an unusual phrase for religious use. Wierwille could have lifted it from a number of sources, including the Bible.
I have read this thread and pats previous thread on the lawsuit and his documents. I don’t know much about the law and lawsuits and I will go with the comment made by some on the strength of the TWI claim versus the weakness of pats counter claim and suit.
I would like to consider the value and cost of this lawsuit to TWI versus the value and cost to pat and indirectly the ex way GS community as a whole.
TWI has the resources to fund this lawsuit indefinitely. Pat does not. Partly as a result of this their documents are stronger. If TWI looses the suit and does not get the domain name they have lost only money in my opinion since I suspect that this lawsuit is unknown to most of the staff much less the rank and file or general public. (perhaps a lurking innie could confirm or deny whether this or the Peeler lawsuit has ever been openly mentioned) If they lost they won’t mention it and their financial base of followers will never know. On the other hand they will proclaim a great victory and the details they want made known will be added to the What’s New at the Way page of their website if they win. This would provide the BOT with a big warm fuzzy feel good and be worth every penny they spent from their perspective.
If Pat wins he may get some compensation for his time and money. He gets to keep the domain name. I assume this will make him feel good (it should!). If he looses he is out money and time but I assume he will feel he put up a great fight that may eventually weaken TWI and take comfort in that. But the harder he fights the better it is for TWI and even a win will be recognized only by a very small community (gscafe).
Pats counter suit looks like an attempt to up the ante for TWI- increase the risk of a loss and also the financial and PR costs of a loss but doing this may weaken his case. If Pat wins on every point imagine how the BOT would spin a name change from The Way International to The Faithful Household of the Promised Land of the Prevailing Word of the Enlightened Few over Everone Else or whatever. Whatever the change they could do it in such a way that it would sound positive and divinely inspired to themselves and their followers- who would never know the legal reason- if it was done creatively enough it might even spur some growth. Once again this is a win for TWI.
I wonder if there is a way to get this suit out to a wider audience. Is there a legal issue that could lead to wider interest by the legal or internet press? Is there some thing in this that could get the interest of religious organizations and media? Is there something in this that might interest someone in making a documentary about the suit? I suspect that unless the audience of this little legal drama can be enlarged to the general public to the point that there is a real possibility of regular members of TWI reading, hearing or preferably watching news about this suit during the day before they go to twig, the risk and potential cost of loss just isn’t an issue for TWI.
At the same time I hope you stick to your guns fight and win Pat- but remember to shoot low
As a member of the mainstream media, I would argue that this case would have a mainstream interest of about... no, I can't think of a soul who would care about a p*ssing contest between a two bit cult and a disgruntled ex-follower. In fact, the media might be hostile to someone who thinks he can register the name of an organization as a domain name and get away with it.
HOWEVER, I do think publications like Christianity Today and other cult-watching publications would be more than interested, particularly if the legal case goes Pat's way.
The thing to remember with media coverage in my opinion is that you have to recognise that it is liable to make both sides look bad because the media will be portraying the storybased on their own bias (agenda). But in this case who has the most to lose pat or TWI? I think unfavorable coverage would hurt TWI more than Pat.
quote: PRO: TWI's prohibition against the Internet does work in Pat's favor.
CON: Unless it was written down somewhere, TWI will produce as many witnesses to say there was no prohibition as Pat can produce to say there was.
(Edited out as it occured to me what you're getting at, as TWI didn't register the 'thewayinternational.com' name before Pat did. My bad. However, I still think that the term 'thewayinternational.com' can successfully be shown to be bought out by Pat on 'bad faith'.)
And the rest of your points are quite solid, I think.
And to the supporters who seem to think that going over whatever flaws of this case are tantamount to supporting TWI, and/or that we need to nail TWI by whatever way we can, consider this: Why use questionable methods/tactics to bring down TWI when instead it only winds up smacking you back in the face? And TWI *gains* because of your 'fax paux', ie., screwup?
Why not instead work over the plan and make it as fool proof as possible. THEN go after them.
That is what strategic and critical thinking is all about. And sometimes it takes longer than maybe we would like.
quote:The thing to remember with media coverage in my opinion is that you have to recognise that it is liable to make both sides look bad because the media will be portraying the storybased on their own bias (agenda). But in this case who has the most to lose pat or TWI? I think unfavorable coverage would hurt TWI more than Pat.
Not sure that's true:
TWI has endured negative coverage for decades. Negative coverage only galvanizes the membership by making them feel persecuted by "the world."
I detect a bit of wishful thinking on your part, as far as that goes.
Does my affirmative defense of Estoppel-by- Laches #2-4 now seem reasonable? Does TWI's claims on lines 28 and 31 seem truthful?
Pat,
That exhibit does indicate that those points of the complaint are false, but it doesn’t indicate deceit. It’s extremely unlikely that two reputable law firms would intentionally attempt to deceive the court regarding that matter. Much more likely is an error in record keeping and/or communication. The lawyers handling the matters are different, and the TWI people involved may be different also.
It’s not unreasonable to raise it but I think your estoppel by laches defense will probably fail, for two reasons. First, TWI did not fail to defend their claim in a timely manner. They communicated their demands to you at that time and appear to have reasonably concluded that you complied with their demands. Shortly after you received that letter, you stopped using both the name “The Way of Christ Ministry” and the domain “thewayinternational.com.” You began using the name “The Path of Christ Ministry” and hosted it at “waychrist.com,” where it is still hosted. That TWI didn’t pursue the matter further at that time is understandable. The second reason I think that defense will probably fail is that the delay did not prejudice you, or entrap you, so to speak. That is an important element of such a defense.
Afterthought: If anything, I think that the delay may work to TWI’s advantage. Your acceding to their demands can be portrayed as an acknowledgement of their validity. That TWI didn’t pursue you further at that time could undermine your claims of malicious conduct against you. I don’t know how TWI’s lawyers will spin that, but I could spin it to make TWI seem to be acting charitably toward you. (I wouldn’t, because I don’t think they know the meaning of charity.)
quote:by H.E. Wierwille on TWI's trademark application made under oath and penalty of law while representing TWI as a corporate officer:
1) " ...he believes the corporation to be the owner of the mark sought to be registered", 2) ..."that to the best of his knowledge and belief, no other person, firm, corporation, or association has the right to use the mark in commerce"...
Does anyone think this was a truthful statement in light of all the churches using The Way, E. Stanley Jones book The Way, or the Catholic bible The Way that were out at the time of this statement?
quote:Your acceding to their demands can be portrayed as an acknowledgement of their validity
Nope. I kept the domain name, and through my attorney stated that their claims had no merit as I applied for a trademark for The Way Of Christ Ministry anyway.
Also, TWI's trademark is is in class 41 goods and services, and my website was classified as a class 42 of services.
Also, if the whole issue was about the domain name only as you keep saying, then why did they file a lawsuit in Federal court instead of with ICAAN who handles domain name disputes exclusively?
Also, after learning I had registered The Way International.com in 2000, why did TWI wait over 3 years to register The Way International.org and net if it was so important to them?
The answer is that it goes way beyond the domain name......
Let's take this scenario. If you just oppose what PJ is doing and support TWI, then I understand the public forum to try to dishonor or discredit him. But if you are opposed to TWI's practices, you understand what he is trying to do and the reasons for the claims and counter-claims. We could come up with endless "legal" reasons TWI can do what they do, but sometimes things that are legal do not make it right or even supported before a judge or jury when facts behind motives, tactics and results are established. Then the court wonders whether the "legal" thing to do then is to deny TWI of its right to rob people of their lives, livlihood, property and money by psychological torment. This is done through counter-claim punitive lawsuits, especially when an organization such as TWI judicially harasses those it wants to shut up and shut down, such as Ex-Cultworld and its information. This lawsuit by TWI may be more than just the domain name. It may also be about his ability to expose TWI's financial and legal affairs, something few are doing. We have web sites opposing doctrine, but TWI cares little for that, except, apparently, in Raf's case where some Corpse are somehow hateful to his site for no apparent reason other than doctrinal issues he brings up.
So as far as acting like TWI, this is hardly the case. I simply don't want anybody here giving any ideas to TWI on how to fight PJ.
Raf, that is why I wanted private posts. I could hardly believe you think that is abridging your freedom to express yourself publically. It was a suggestion, that was all.
Common sense is all I ask on this thread. Either help PJ or not. If you don't want to, you do it publically. If you want to, post privately. Some of the "help" here doesn't seem to me to help anyone at all.
TWI doesn't own a trademark for the words "The Way International".
They have 4 pending applications for this mark, but in the last couple days, there has been 4 official oppositions(lawsuits) filed against TWI obtaining these new trademarks...
Now Rosie, it was one down one to go. Now its one down and 6 to go. Is your cult not prevailing like it should?
Recommended Posts
Top Posters In This Topic
23
41
41
60
Popular Days
May 5
35
May 4
32
May 6
28
May 11
22
Top Posters In This Topic
Goey 23 posts
Raf 41 posts
LG 41 posts
pjroberge 60 posts
Popular Days
May 5 2004
35 posts
May 4 2004
32 posts
May 6 2004
28 posts
May 11 2004
22 posts
insurgent
Good poing, Zixar. They've done everything they can to DIS-associate themselves with Christianity.
"We are not a church" has been the mantra for years in twi. I remember on one video that lcm said that for "tax purposes" we had to say we were a church, but that we know the TRUE story of what we are. Now I know what he was talking about - we're not a church; we're an abusive cult.
Much as I wonder about some of the arguments that PJ has posted here and how they will fare in court, I do hope he wins and delivers a major blow to twi. I get nervous reading the rebuttals to his posts. It's good for him to get some practice here, but then again, it could be giving the twi(t) lawyers fuel they hadn't considered.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
pjroberge
Good point Zixar, and that is what I am trying to do. The trinity point is only a small one of the evidence I will be presenting, not the focus in any way.
Agreed, and that is the type of evidence that I will be presenting, and more of it with people's help.
Help Needed: GS's that want to help, there is an awful lot of stuff to go through for evidence by myself. TWI has 3 attorneys and two lawfirms doing the deed for them, and I am doing it only with the help of my wife, a loving cat, and friends.
Some of you have already sent me e-mails with clues of where to look and others are making copies. Thanks
If you remember a particular tape or magazine article that mentions the points I need to really nail, could GS's drop me a line? The help would be appreciated. Pat
Edited by pjrobergeLink to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
good luck
Link to comment
Share on other sites
LG
Pat,
It's not about despising or not despising any person or organization. It's about more important things, like law and wisdom.
I support your right to publish any opinions you desire and any truthful information you wish about TWI. If that were the issue in a lawsuit, I might even actively help you. But that’s not the issue. You could publish what you want just as effectively without using any form or derivative of "the way" or "the way international" in a name or web address. Actually, you could do it more effectively, because your attempts to use such forms or derivatives have caused you to expend time and money that you could better spend elsewhere.
You have already lost one trademark dispute with TWI. In that one, your position was at least defensible, but you lacked the resources to defend it. Consequently, you wasted quite a bit of time and money, to no avail. In this dispute, your position is indefensible, IMO, and again you lack the resources to defend it, even if it were defensible. TWI, on the other hand, stands on pretty solid legal ground, IMO, and has plenty of resources to defend its position. Legally, I don't think that you should prevail and practically, I don't think that you can prevail.
Since you say (probably sarcastically) that you look forward to it, I may go through TWI’s complaint and comment on it in a future post.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Zixar
Some random musings...
PRO: Pat's right in that "The Way" is pretty diluted as a trademark.
CON: Unfortunately, "The Way International" isn't, and that's what the whole case hinges upon. Probably would have worked for "The Way of Christ", but no chance for "Way International".
PRO: TWI really did/does disparage the beliefs of non-TWI religious groups.
CON: Unfortunately, TWI is a religious group itself, and disparaging the beliefs of other groups is part and parcel of what starting a separate sect is all about. Catholics excommunicate Protestants, Muslims kill Jews, etc. No court will touch that one, and rightly so, under the First Amendment.
PRO: TWI's prohibition against the Internet does work in Pat's favor.
CON: Unless it was written down somewhere, TWI will produce as many witnesses to say there was no prohibition as Pat can produce to say there was.
et cetera...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
LG
OK, Pat. Although I doubt if you really wanted this, here are a few comments about TWI's complaint.
Points 1-25: Applicable sections of the U.S. Code are correctly cited. The U.S. District Court, District of Vermont, has jurisdiction as stated and the venue is proper. The parties are as represented. The statements regarding TWI’s history and trademarks are correct, except for a possible minor error or two. Many of the characterizations, which are from TWI’s perspective, are arguable. For example, conduct that TWI considers malicious, Pat does not.
Points 26-34: Essentially correct, except possibly for points 28, 31, and 33. Points 28 and 31 depend on TWI not being previously aware that Pat used "thewayinternational.com" to host or to redirect traffic to “The Way of Christ Ministry” website. The correspondence Pat published regarding the dispute over “The Way of Christ Ministry” (HERE) does not mention an Internet domain. It is possible that Pat has other correspondence that does. Point 33 depends on the cited exhibit being as represented. (I suspect that it is, because it would be foolish to falsely describe the exhibit.)
Counts I-IV (Points 35-60): The citations of law are applicable to the counts. The counts and the points supporting them are arguable, of course, but they are not frivolous. Count III seems pretty obvious to me.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
sadie
I have a "THE WAY" bible which is of no association with TWI.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
pjroberge
They have 4 pending applications for this mark, but there has been an official opposition(lawsuit) filed against them obtaining these new trademarks...
Sadie:
Your way bible is one of the exhibits that I sent the court showing that someone else was using The Way in commerce before TWI's trademark application, on which H.E. Wierwille stated under penalty of law as a corporate representative of TWI that:
This quote speaks volumes about TWI's arrogance. All these churches, book writers and publishers don't have a right to use "The Way" in commerce? I don't think so....Link to comment
Share on other sites
pjroberge
Long Gone:
See exhibit #3 http://www.excultworld.com/Roberge_TWI_Law...ge_exhibits.htmDoes my affirmative defense of Estoppel-by- Laches #2-4 now seem reasonable? Does TWI's claims on lines 28 and 31 seem truthful?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
pjroberge
A little tidbit about TWI's possible history. Have you ever wondered where TWI got the idea for 1) The Way 2) The Way Tree or 3) Power for Abundant Living
Check out Exhibit # 18. http://www.excultworld.com/Roberge_TWI_Law...ge_exhibits.htm
The author is E. Stanley Jones, someone VPW was quoted as having studied under in The Way Living In Love. Makes you wanna go hmmmmmm
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Raf
Do not forget that in the 1950s (and possibly in the 1940s), Oral Roberts had a magazine entitled "Abundant Life." It was not an unusual phrase for religious use. Wierwille could have lifted it from a number of sources, including the Bible.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
ckeer
I have read this thread and pats previous thread on the lawsuit and his documents. I don’t know much about the law and lawsuits and I will go with the comment made by some on the strength of the TWI claim versus the weakness of pats counter claim and suit.
I would like to consider the value and cost of this lawsuit to TWI versus the value and cost to pat and indirectly the ex way GS community as a whole.
TWI has the resources to fund this lawsuit indefinitely. Pat does not. Partly as a result of this their documents are stronger. If TWI looses the suit and does not get the domain name they have lost only money in my opinion since I suspect that this lawsuit is unknown to most of the staff much less the rank and file or general public. (perhaps a lurking innie could confirm or deny whether this or the Peeler lawsuit has ever been openly mentioned) If they lost they won’t mention it and their financial base of followers will never know. On the other hand they will proclaim a great victory and the details they want made known will be added to the What’s New at the Way page of their website if they win. This would provide the BOT with a big warm fuzzy feel good and be worth every penny they spent from their perspective.
If Pat wins he may get some compensation for his time and money. He gets to keep the domain name. I assume this will make him feel good (it should!). If he looses he is out money and time but I assume he will feel he put up a great fight that may eventually weaken TWI and take comfort in that. But the harder he fights the better it is for TWI and even a win will be recognized only by a very small community (gscafe).
Pats counter suit looks like an attempt to up the ante for TWI- increase the risk of a loss and also the financial and PR costs of a loss but doing this may weaken his case. If Pat wins on every point imagine how the BOT would spin a name change from The Way International to The Faithful Household of the Promised Land of the Prevailing Word of the Enlightened Few over Everone Else or whatever. Whatever the change they could do it in such a way that it would sound positive and divinely inspired to themselves and their followers- who would never know the legal reason- if it was done creatively enough it might even spur some growth. Once again this is a win for TWI.
I wonder if there is a way to get this suit out to a wider audience. Is there a legal issue that could lead to wider interest by the legal or internet press? Is there some thing in this that could get the interest of religious organizations and media? Is there something in this that might interest someone in making a documentary about the suit? I suspect that unless the audience of this little legal drama can be enlarged to the general public to the point that there is a real possibility of regular members of TWI reading, hearing or preferably watching news about this suit during the day before they go to twig, the risk and potential cost of loss just isn’t an issue for TWI.
At the same time I hope you stick to your guns fight and win Pat- but remember to shoot low
I also hope we can help
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Raf
As a member of the mainstream media, I would argue that this case would have a mainstream interest of about... no, I can't think of a soul who would care about a p*ssing contest between a two bit cult and a disgruntled ex-follower. In fact, the media might be hostile to someone who thinks he can register the name of an organization as a domain name and get away with it.
HOWEVER, I do think publications like Christianity Today and other cult-watching publications would be more than interested, particularly if the legal case goes Pat's way.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
ckeer
The thing to remember with media coverage in my opinion is that you have to recognise that it is liable to make both sides look bad because the media will be portraying the storybased on their own bias (agenda). But in this case who has the most to lose pat or TWI? I think unfavorable coverage would hurt TWI more than Pat.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
GarthP2000
Zix,
(Edited out as it occured to me what you're getting at, as TWI didn't register the 'thewayinternational.com' name before Pat did. My bad. However, I still think that the term 'thewayinternational.com' can successfully be shown to be bought out by Pat on 'bad faith'.)
And the rest of your points are quite solid, I think.
And to the supporters who seem to think that going over whatever flaws of this case are tantamount to supporting TWI, and/or that we need to nail TWI by whatever way we can, consider this: Why use questionable methods/tactics to bring down TWI when instead it only winds up smacking you back in the face? And TWI *gains* because of your 'fax paux', ie., screwup?
Why not instead work over the plan and make it as fool proof as possible. THEN go after them.
That is what strategic and critical thinking is all about. And sometimes it takes longer than maybe we would like.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
dmiller
Yes.
And yes.
I also think the only ones interested will be the "cult-denouncers". Can't see the main-stream media caring a TWIt about twi, or ex-members.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Raf
Not sure that's true:
TWI has endured negative coverage for decades. Negative coverage only galvanizes the membership by making them feel persecuted by "the world."
I detect a bit of wishful thinking on your part, as far as that goes.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
LG
Pat,
That exhibit does indicate that those points of the complaint are false, but it doesn’t indicate deceit. It’s extremely unlikely that two reputable law firms would intentionally attempt to deceive the court regarding that matter. Much more likely is an error in record keeping and/or communication. The lawyers handling the matters are different, and the TWI people involved may be different also.
It’s not unreasonable to raise it but I think your estoppel by laches defense will probably fail, for two reasons. First, TWI did not fail to defend their claim in a timely manner. They communicated their demands to you at that time and appear to have reasonably concluded that you complied with their demands. Shortly after you received that letter, you stopped using both the name “The Way of Christ Ministry” and the domain “thewayinternational.com.” You began using the name “The Path of Christ Ministry” and hosted it at “waychrist.com,” where it is still hosted. That TWI didn’t pursue the matter further at that time is understandable. The second reason I think that defense will probably fail is that the delay did not prejudice you, or entrap you, so to speak. That is an important element of such a defense.
Afterthought: If anything, I think that the delay may work to TWI’s advantage. Your acceding to their demands can be portrayed as an acknowledgement of their validity. That TWI didn’t pursue you further at that time could undermine your claims of malicious conduct against you. I don’t know how TWI’s lawyers will spin that, but I could spin it to make TWI seem to be acting charitably toward you. (I wouldn’t, because I don’t think they know the meaning of charity.)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
pjroberge
Ground #2 to cancel TWI's trademark:
Does anyone think this was a truthful statement in light of all the churches using The Way, E. Stanley Jones book The Way, or the Catholic bible The Way that were out at the time of this statement?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Raf
Pat,
I feel the need to bring this up again.
You are not The Way International. They are.
Give them their domain name already.
Back to lurking.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
pjroberge
Also, TWI's trademark is is in class 41 goods and services, and my website was classified as a class 42 of services.
Also, The Path Of Christ or Ex-Cultworld Magazine has never sold any goods and services. Therefore, any use of the way of the way international is non-actionable under 15 USCS § 1125©(4)(b).
Link to comment
Share on other sites
pjroberge
Also, if the whole issue was about the domain name only as you keep saying, then why did they file a lawsuit in Federal court instead of with ICAAN who handles domain name disputes exclusively?
Also, after learning I had registered The Way International.com in 2000, why did TWI wait over 3 years to register The Way International.org and net if it was so important to them?
The answer is that it goes way beyond the domain name......
Edited by pjrobergeLink to comment
Share on other sites
Eagle
Grizzy:
Let's take this scenario. If you just oppose what PJ is doing and support TWI, then I understand the public forum to try to dishonor or discredit him. But if you are opposed to TWI's practices, you understand what he is trying to do and the reasons for the claims and counter-claims. We could come up with endless "legal" reasons TWI can do what they do, but sometimes things that are legal do not make it right or even supported before a judge or jury when facts behind motives, tactics and results are established. Then the court wonders whether the "legal" thing to do then is to deny TWI of its right to rob people of their lives, livlihood, property and money by psychological torment. This is done through counter-claim punitive lawsuits, especially when an organization such as TWI judicially harasses those it wants to shut up and shut down, such as Ex-Cultworld and its information. This lawsuit by TWI may be more than just the domain name. It may also be about his ability to expose TWI's financial and legal affairs, something few are doing. We have web sites opposing doctrine, but TWI cares little for that, except, apparently, in Raf's case where some Corpse are somehow hateful to his site for no apparent reason other than doctrinal issues he brings up.
So as far as acting like TWI, this is hardly the case. I simply don't want anybody here giving any ideas to TWI on how to fight PJ.
Raf, that is why I wanted private posts. I could hardly believe you think that is abridging your freedom to express yourself publically. It was a suggestion, that was all.
Common sense is all I ask on this thread. Either help PJ or not. If you don't want to, you do it publically. If you want to, post privately. Some of the "help" here doesn't seem to me to help anyone at all.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
pjroberge
Other trademark news:
TWI doesn't own a trademark for the words "The Way International".
They have 4 pending applications for this mark, but in the last couple days, there has been 4 official oppositions(lawsuits) filed against TWI obtaining these new trademarks...
Now Rosie, it was one down one to go. Now its one down and 6 to go. Is your cult not prevailing like it should?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.