Re Howard Allen, yes, I remember concoctions of beet juice and other herbal remedies being administered. I have no doubt they helped. Herbals are sometimes good, and the meds help as well.
But I believe to claim he was actually raised from the dead is a little much.
Jesus was raised after 3 days and 3 nights.
Lazarus was raised after he had already been buried.
I believe the centurian's daughter was raised after the mourning process had already begun.
I think if anyone is going to claim someone was actually raised from the dead, they should be definitively, unquestionably dead. No cardiac OR brain activity. For a period of time.
Some Eric Clapton trivia (I think I've got this right),
Yardbirds, Cream, Blindfaith (only one album, and the band immediately broke up), Derek and the Dominoes, then his basically solo career.
BTW, the "Blindfaith" album has my vote as the best R&R album of all time. I still know all the lyrics to all the songs by heart - hell, I still know the order the songs were on the album (though the order was different on 8-track). I do seem to remember some chatter about the "In the Presence of the Lord" cut being divinely inspired or some such...
Some Eric Clapton trivia (I think I've got this right),
Yardbirds, Cream, Blindfaith (only one album, and the band immediately broke up), Derek and the Dominoes, then his basically solo career.
After leaving the Yardbirds because *gasp* they were persuing commercial success and soft-pedalling the blues, Clapton joined John Mayall's Bluesbreakers.
A couple of more PFAL rockers that I remember hearing of, if they haven’t been mentioned yet, Prince and Dave Garibaldi from Tower of Power.
Another myth I remember from the time I spent at Gunnison was VPW’s prayer/curse on Gunnison that he supposedly made at its dedication- that if the TWI ever stopped teaching the rightly divided word that the entire camp would burn to the ground overnight.
Boy would that have been a bonfire of the vanities!
At ROA '77 they spent a whole evening on Howard Allen's healing. Speakers were VP, HA, JAL, Fritz Weingarner, and maybe a couple of others. No mention of spiders or HA being dead, just the 'believing' process which led to his healing. HA said he wanted to die, especially when they fed him the home remedy whatever it was.
One thing that I remembered with interest is that after HA was out of mortal danger he still acted like a vegetable, so VP said he just sat HA at his desk hoping it would all come back to him and after 2 weeks it eventually did.
The reason I say with interest is that a similar treatment was used on Detroit Redwing defenseman ... (can't remember his name...wait! OK, it was Konstantinov) ... the Russian guy who was severly injured in a limo crash 1 week after the Red wings won the '97 Stanley Cup. He, too, was like a vegetable and they let him hang around the locker room and the practice facility even though he couldn't play any more and it seemed to help him.
I once read that Eric Clapton was cured of heroin addiction by acupuncture.
Speaking of myths, I'd like feedback on this one if anybody has any. It concerns the death of Led Zep drummer John Bonham.
The commonly held belief is that he died from drinking too many shots of something. (strange since he reportedly was a beer drinker) TWI says he tried to perform a black magic incantation and f*cked up the procedure so the devil spirit(s) snuffed him right then and there.
Easy call for most, but approximately 2 days after he died I was listening to the rock station I still listen to here in STL, KSHE 95, and the DJ said a news wire had just come up saying Bonham was "fully clothed; no apparent cause of death". Now wait a minute!
Fully clothed; no apparent cause of death does not fit with drinking too many shots or drinking, period. It could fit TWI's explanation. I heard that explanation from an apprentice corps guy who lived with the 3rd corps area coordinator and I never heard the KSHE news wire explanation again. Weird, huh? Anybody know anything?
quote: Bonham both disliked being away from his home and family for long periods and also flying. This led him to use alcohol to work off his nerves. On September 24, 1980, Bonham was picked up by Led Zeppelin assistant Rex King from The Old Hyde hotel to be at rehearsals at Bray Studios for the upcoming tour of the United States, the bands first since 1977. During the journey Bonham had downed four quadruple vodkas before continuing drinking at the studio. A halt was called to the rehearsals late in the evening and the band retired to Page's house in Windsor . After midnight, Bonham had fallen asleep and was taken to bed on his side. Tour manager Benji LeFevre found him dead the next morning. Despite the sensationalist press which indulged themselves, a subsequent coroners inquest found no drugs in Bonham’s body. His death was a tragic accident. John Bonham was buried on October 10, 1980 at Rushock parish churchyard, near The Old Hyde farm
Also since we are talking about rock and roll and twi I remeber that one of the Atlanta area twig coordinators in the Mid 90's was a corpse grad who had been a backup dancer for Janet Jackson.
quote:He died on September 24, 1980 at Page's home. He had consumed an uncountable number of drinks and had been taking a drug to keep him off of heroin, and when he was laid down to sleep, his face was up instead of down, which caused him to choke on his own vomit.
According to enclclopedia.the fredirectory.com:
quote:Bonham both disliked being away from his home and family for long periods and also flying. This led him to use alcohol to work off his nerves. On September 24, 1980, Bonham was picked up by Led Zeppelin assistant Rex King from The Old Hyde hotel to be at rehearsals at Bray Studios for the upcoming tour of the United States, the bands first since 1977. During the journey Bonham had downed four quadruple vodkas before continuing drinking at the studio. A halt was called to the rehearsals late in the evening and the band retired to Page's house in Windsor . After midnight, Bonham had fallen asleep and was taken to bed on his side. Tour manager Benji LeFevre found him dead the next morning. Despite the sensationalist press which indulged themselves, a subsequent coroners inquest found no drugs in Bonham’s body;
The claim of that TWI person that Bohnam was doing some kind of occult thing was probably fueled because of fellow Zepplin member, Jimmy Pages' involvement with the Magick/Satanic cult in England called the Argenteum Astrum (Sliver Star) which was founded by Aleister Crowley. Crowley wrote "Magick in Theory and Practice" which is a modern Black Magic/Satanism classic.
Just remembered these two, which actually responsible for me leaving- The first was that you had to go 2x2 everywhere possible, or the adversary had a direct way in-The second was that whenever anyone took a trip of any length or duration, you had to file a form of the particulars with the BC or, again, the adversary had a way in. Evidently TWI thought God needed the help of the 2x2 and all important form to protect people. In fact, when a fatal accident happened to someone who did not file a report, it was explained that they had essentially brought it upon themselves by not doing so and were outside God's hedge of protection.
So, in other words, God is only able to protect folks in pairs? And then, only if the proper form is filled out and approved by some knuckle-headed TWI leader?
LMAO, This is just plain silly.
It seems TWI distanced itself and evolved a long way from PFAL and the 70's/80's when as individuals with "Christ in you", we were "more than conquerors".
How did "the adversary" get so much power?
It sounds like errant doctrine, supersition, paranoia, and the incessant desire to control took the place of sound doctrine under LCM and Rosie. I am glad I missed this.
I was there at the Adv. class in Rome City when Howard Allen was brought out to discuss it. Spinal meningitis. For sure he was gravely ill for a long time.
That was typical of TWI's extreme control over every part of a person's life, down to the tiniest detail. --And death threats to keep you within their clutches. It's all about control, so they have access to your money. When that's all used up, or you otherwise become a liability to them, they're done with you.
The story changed later catcup....We were told that it was herpes the bad kind......but menengitis was a more socially acceptable disease at the time....so thats what they told folks for a few years.
Doug Stegmeyer was the bass player for Billy Joel for many, many years. He had a relative in one of the early Family Corps' - I believe she was his aunt. I don't know if she ever witnessed to him or any of the other band members. He committed suicide in 1995.
I was also in Rome City A.C. in 1994 and remember Howard Allen speaking at length regarding his health issues and being delivered.
I have also been in the hospital with serious health issues and many of waydale/grease spots posters praying for me. I needed and valued every prayer and even reviewed the printed thread in my hospital bed.
It didn't happen instantaneously but, I was healed with prayer and a surgeon so damned good I could have tattooed his name on my arm for saving my life.
Healing in my heart and mind is a combination of Gods design of the human body, prayer and great medical care.
The discussion on H Allen's healing aroused my curiosity, I vaguely remember it from AC 1984 in San Diego. I did a search on herpes simplex encephalitis and this is the most concise info I found. I thought I'd share it with any other inquiring minds:
quote: ABSTRACT: Herpes simplex encephalitis is the commonest and the gravest form of acute encephalitis, seen sporadically throughout the year & in patients of all ages and in all parts of the world. It carries a mortality rate of 30-70 percent and those who survive are left with serious neurologic abnormalities. It is due almost always to Herpes Simplex Virus-I (HSV-I) which is also the cause of the common herpetic lesions of the oral mucosa. Rarely, however, do the oral and encephalitic lesions coincide. We report here a case of Herpes simplex encephalitis who presented with behaviour disturbances followed by seizures and coma and this patient had full recovery following acyclovir therapy.
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Catcup
Re Howard Allen, yes, I remember concoctions of beet juice and other herbal remedies being administered. I have no doubt they helped. Herbals are sometimes good, and the meds help as well.
But I believe to claim he was actually raised from the dead is a little much.
Jesus was raised after 3 days and 3 nights.
Lazarus was raised after he had already been buried.
I believe the centurian's daughter was raised after the mourning process had already begun.
I think if anyone is going to claim someone was actually raised from the dead, they should be definitively, unquestionably dead. No cardiac OR brain activity. For a period of time.
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1searcher
The following information is to the best of my knowledge:
Howard Allen's healing was discussed at length at the Advanced Class in 1984 in San Diego.
V.P. Wierwille said that they thought that Howard Allen had been bitten by a spider while hunting and that was what caused his illness.
V.P. also said that he had picked up a hitchhiker who he believed was an angel that helped keep him awake while he drove Howard Allen to the hospital.
Grace Bliss recommended feeding Howard Allen blackstrap molasses.
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wyteduv58
Howard Allen discussed this topic during LCM's new A.C. at Rome city in 1994. as best as I can recall it was spinal menningits.
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rascal
If memory serves me correctly...We were told once at a big meeting years later that it was herpes simplex 3......
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George Aar
Some Eric Clapton trivia (I think I've got this right),
Yardbirds, Cream, Blindfaith (only one album, and the band immediately broke up), Derek and the Dominoes, then his basically solo career.
BTW, the "Blindfaith" album has my vote as the best R&R album of all time. I still know all the lyrics to all the songs by heart - hell, I still know the order the songs were on the album (though the order was different on 8-track). I do seem to remember some chatter about the "In the Presence of the Lord" cut being divinely inspired or some such...
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Oakspear
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ckeer
A couple of more PFAL rockers that I remember hearing of, if they haven’t been mentioned yet, Prince and Dave Garibaldi from Tower of Power.
Another myth I remember from the time I spent at Gunnison was VPW’s prayer/curse on Gunnison that he supposedly made at its dedication- that if the TWI ever stopped teaching the rightly divided word that the entire camp would burn to the ground overnight.
Boy would that have been a bonfire of the vanities!
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johniam
At ROA '77 they spent a whole evening on Howard Allen's healing. Speakers were VP, HA, JAL, Fritz Weingarner, and maybe a couple of others. No mention of spiders or HA being dead, just the 'believing' process which led to his healing. HA said he wanted to die, especially when they fed him the home remedy whatever it was.
One thing that I remembered with interest is that after HA was out of mortal danger he still acted like a vegetable, so VP said he just sat HA at his desk hoping it would all come back to him and after 2 weeks it eventually did.
The reason I say with interest is that a similar treatment was used on Detroit Redwing defenseman ... (can't remember his name...wait! OK, it was Konstantinov) ... the Russian guy who was severly injured in a limo crash 1 week after the Red wings won the '97 Stanley Cup. He, too, was like a vegetable and they let him hang around the locker room and the practice facility even though he couldn't play any more and it seemed to help him.
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johniam
I once read that Eric Clapton was cured of heroin addiction by acupuncture.
Speaking of myths, I'd like feedback on this one if anybody has any. It concerns the death of Led Zep drummer John Bonham.
The commonly held belief is that he died from drinking too many shots of something. (strange since he reportedly was a beer drinker) TWI says he tried to perform a black magic incantation and f*cked up the procedure so the devil spirit(s) snuffed him right then and there.
Easy call for most, but approximately 2 days after he died I was listening to the rock station I still listen to here in STL, KSHE 95, and the DJ said a news wire had just come up saying Bonham was "fully clothed; no apparent cause of death". Now wait a minute!
Fully clothed; no apparent cause of death does not fit with drinking too many shots or drinking, period. It could fit TWI's explanation. I heard that explanation from an apprentice corps guy who lived with the 3rd corps area coordinator and I never heard the KSHE news wire explanation again. Weird, huh? Anybody know anything?
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Steve!
ckeer, Dave Garibaldi *was* a part of Takit, or at least Way Prod. He stood with TWI for a while.
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johniam
I never heard that Prince himself took PFAL, but I heard that a woman who ended up in the corps was in Prince's band and chose TWI over Prince.
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ckeer
johniam- this is about John Bonham from wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Bonham
Also since we are talking about rock and roll and twi I remeber that one of the Atlanta area twig coordinators in the Mid 90's was a corpse grad who had been a backup dancer for Janet Jackson.
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Goey
Concerning John Bonham.....
According to Musiceffect.com:
According to enclclopedia.the fredirectory.com:
The claim of that TWI person that Bohnam was doing some kind of occult thing was probably fueled because of fellow Zepplin member, Jimmy Pages' involvement with the Magick/Satanic cult in England called the Argenteum Astrum (Sliver Star) which was founded by Aleister Crowley. Crowley wrote "Magick in Theory and Practice" which is a modern Black Magic/Satanism classic.
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takemethere
Just remembered these two, which actually responsible for me leaving- The first was that you had to go 2x2 everywhere possible, or the adversary had a direct way in-The second was that whenever anyone took a trip of any length or duration, you had to file a form of the particulars with the BC or, again, the adversary had a way in. Evidently TWI thought God needed the help of the 2x2 and all important form to protect people. In fact, when a fatal accident happened to someone who did not file a report, it was explained that they had essentially brought it upon themselves by not doing so and were outside God's hedge of protection.
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Goey
So, in other words, God is only able to protect folks in pairs? And then, only if the proper form is filled out and approved by some knuckle-headed TWI leader?
LMAO, This is just plain silly.
It seems TWI distanced itself and evolved a long way from PFAL and the 70's/80's when as individuals with "Christ in you", we were "more than conquerors".
How did "the adversary" get so much power?
It sounds like errant doctrine, supersition, paranoia, and the incessant desire to control took the place of sound doctrine under LCM and Rosie. I am glad I missed this.
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Catcup
I concur with wyteduv--
I was there at the Adv. class in Rome City when Howard Allen was brought out to discuss it. Spinal meningitis. For sure he was gravely ill for a long time.
But raised from the dead?
I seriously doubt it.
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Catcup
Takemethere
That was typical of TWI's extreme control over every part of a person's life, down to the tiniest detail. --And death threats to keep you within their clutches. It's all about control, so they have access to your money. When that's all used up, or you otherwise become a liability to them, they're done with you.
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rascal
The story changed later catcup....We were told that it was herpes the bad kind......but menengitis was a more socially acceptable disease at the time....so thats what they told folks for a few years.
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Hope R.
imablvr -
Doug Stegmeyer was the bass player for Billy Joel for many, many years. He had a relative in one of the early Family Corps' - I believe she was his aunt. I don't know if she ever witnessed to him or any of the other band members. He committed suicide in 1995.
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dmiller
Another way myth (prevelant in the late '70's, and early '80's) was ---
"Leave an open bible (turned to Ephesians) on a coffee table. No devil spirits will DARE enter your house."
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Digitalis
Wytedov and Catcup
I was also in Rome City A.C. in 1994 and remember Howard Allen speaking at length regarding his health issues and being delivered.
I have also been in the hospital with serious health issues and many of waydale/grease spots posters praying for me. I needed and valued every prayer and even reviewed the printed thread in my hospital bed.
It didn't happen instantaneously but, I was healed with prayer and a surgeon so damned good I could have tattooed his name on my arm for saving my life.
Healing in my heart and mind is a combination of Gods design of the human body, prayer and great medical care.
Digi
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johniam
Ckeer and Goey: Thank you. I saw Ozzy Osbourne last year and he did that song 'MIHHH-ster Crowley'.
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early2it
Here's a myth,
God need leaders, join the way corps.
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ckeer
The discussion on H Allen's healing aroused my curiosity, I vaguely remember it from AC 1984 in San Diego. I did a search on herpes simplex encephalitis and this is the most concise info I found. I thought I'd share it with any other inquiring minds:
http://medind.nic.in/imvw/imvw239.html
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