Oak...It was always assumed that the rev's had a "gift ministry"...while the non-rev's didn't. It was just one more subdivision of "haves" and "have nots" that twi utilized in order to control and manipulate.
okay, but what about people who were offered ordination but turned it down? Did they have "gift ministries" too? Or did the GM's come with the ortdination.
Howard Allen said that he turned down the offer of ordination because "reverends have to bury people". Joe Coulter reportedly turned down ordination for years until being convinced by LCM to accept it when he was on the cabinet.
You know twi explained things to benefit them. I remember one ordained guy who had problems in life and got droppeed from the corps. They believed he still had a gift ministry and even allowed him to go back in the Kork. But the poor guy still didn't end up making it. He ended up dying in a work-related accident. I remember lcm being pretty disappointed and po'd about this guy, as if this man had shamed the ministry. I felt sympathy for the poor man thinking about the guilt that must have been projected on him and how his life had been scrutinized by a bunch of hypoctites.
In twi ordination, it's all about how the person glorifies the ministry (you know the ministry is the Word right?--HA! :P-->)
Not implying anything I just meant vp and ha were real tight as friends and only looked out for themselves as ha was refered as the greatesr layman in the world
quote:How about those who were ordained but then dropped from the way craps and stripped of their reverendship? Did God take away their gift ministry?
You make a valid point by your question. Man cannot take away what has been given by God.
But my question is, did these all of these TWI reverends have a "gift ministy" to begin with? Ordination in TWI (or anywhere else) does not necessarly signify or correlate with a "gift ministry" given by God, neither does it preclude it.
What man gives - man can take away. What God gives ________ (fill in the blank).
What I heard taught about revs getting de-revved was that "the gifts and calling of God are without repentance" and that the de-revved one still had his "gift minsitry", but was choosing not to exercise it.
I recall that the gift ministries came before the ordination - one had to have the gift and then be ordained.
And I know of at least one person who was a Corps grad, definitely had a gift ministry or two and was not ordained. Seems to me very evident that the ordination was a formality that was optional.
Who remembers when Veepee used to introduce Howard Allen as the greatest Christian layman in the world? Isn't this the guy who was trained to catch Vics suitcoat when he tossed it offstage? Bus driver and pimp?
I don't know, maybe because it's after 2am and I'm a little giddy, but this just really hit my funny bone tonight. Can you imagine? We believed it!! Looking back, if Veepee said it, we probably would have believed that Ermal Owens was the 5th Beatle too. Time to go to bed.
I think it was at a 40th anniversary conference - Howard is going on about the urgency of the times and says something to the effect of he's not even going hunting anymore - he's just going to spend every waking moment moving the Word.
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A la prochaine
Funny Bone!
Uncle Hairy... chuckling, chuckling, chuckling...
Mr. H. Allen had quite the r?m?idn't he!!!
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TheInvisibleDan
Lay-man....
Laid-man?
hmmm... could be construed as something of a Freudian slip in the Way context.
Or I have a dirty mind.
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dmiller
All "official correspondence" from Howard Allen was signed with "HA".
Was he laughing, or merely using his initials?
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JustThinking
Should we do a poll to see who gets the nomination of our fellow greasespots?
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Oakspear
In the TWI context, what was the difference between a reverend and a non-reverend who was at the top of the food chain?
Just what did it signify at any level?
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GrouchoMarxJr
Oak...It was always assumed that the rev's had a "gift ministry"...while the non-rev's didn't. It was just one more subdivision of "haves" and "have nots" that twi utilized in order to control and manipulate.
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Oakspear
okay, but what about people who were offered ordination but turned it down? Did they have "gift ministries" too? Or did the GM's come with the ortdination.
Howard Allen said that he turned down the offer of ordination because "reverends have to bury people". Joe Coulter reportedly turned down ordination for years until being convinced by LCM to accept it when he was on the cabinet.
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Shellon
Howard Allen said that he turned down the offer of ordination because "reverends have to bury people".
===============================================
The picture I have of him burying the remains of my husband and the lies he spoke to me verified to me that this would not be his gift.
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insurgent
How about those who were ordained but then dropped from the way craps and stripped of their reverendship? Did God take away their gift ministry?
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Nottawayfer
Insurgent,
You know twi explained things to benefit them. I remember one ordained guy who had problems in life and got droppeed from the corps. They believed he still had a gift ministry and even allowed him to go back in the Kork. But the poor guy still didn't end up making it. He ended up dying in a work-related accident. I remember lcm being pretty disappointed and po'd about this guy, as if this man had shamed the ministry. I felt sympathy for the poor man thinking about the guilt that must have been projected on him and how his life had been scrutinized by a bunch of hypoctites.
In twi ordination, it's all about how the person glorifies the ministry (you know the ministry is the Word right?--HA!
:P-->)
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frank123lol
Imho The greatest layman ha Took care of his buddy and that was it why they even used to hold hands in thier motorcoach Hey he said it
at a ac for grads in rome city 95
The way has not changed they took care of the top then and do now
The greatest laymen and women were the worker bees And the top screwed them royally
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frank123lol
Not implying anything I just meant vp and ha were real tight as friends and only looked out for themselves as ha was refered as the greatesr layman in the world
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Goey
Posted by Insurgent
You make a valid point by your question. Man cannot take away what has been given by God.
But my question is, did these all of these TWI reverends have a "gift ministy" to begin with? Ordination in TWI (or anywhere else) does not necessarly signify or correlate with a "gift ministry" given by God, neither does it preclude it.
What man gives - man can take away. What God gives ________ (fill in the blank).
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Goey
Howard Allen, God's greatest layman?
I met Howard a few times and he gave me the creeps.
If I were doing a movie about TWI I would cast William H. Macy as Howard Allen.
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Oakspear
What I heard taught about revs getting de-revved was that "the gifts and calling of God are without repentance" and that the de-revved one still had his "gift minsitry", but was choosing not to exercise it.
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WordWolf
What was vpw's idea of a great Christian layman?
Would you believe Howard Allen?
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dmiller
I wuz wondering how this got bumped up (bttt), from two years ago. ;)
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WordWolf
I thought it was worth bringing up again.
Some people keep forgetting how vpw was always friends with "the greatest"
everythings in the world and so on.
So, worth looking at, at the very least, I thought.
(Perhaps you disagree. Perhaps you're right.)
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dmiller
I don't disagree at all. The more the past (posted) is raised to the top,
those who are still in, and are considering an exit -- have an open door. :)
Thanks!
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GrouchoMarxJr
Yeah...Wierwille loved to speak in superlatives...
HA was the greatest Christian layman in the world, Claudette was the greatest female gospel singer in the world, etc etc etc...
I suppose his REAL point was to let us know that he was qualified to make those determinations...without being called into question.
I once claimed that Mickey Mantle was the greatest hitter that ever played the game...people jumped all over me like Mel Gibson at a barmitzvah!...
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krys
Well............IMHO Claudet would be very hard to beat!
But you're right about vp setting standards for us.
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Stayed Too Long
or at the police station having his mug shot taken after running the Jews down while partaking of a few brewskis.
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alleycat
I recall that the gift ministries came before the ordination - one had to have the gift and then be ordained.
And I know of at least one person who was a Corps grad, definitely had a gift ministry or two and was not ordained. Seems to me very evident that the ordination was a formality that was optional.
No opinion about HA, though.
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T-Bone
I think it was at a 40th anniversary conference - Howard is going on about the urgency of the times and says something to the effect of he's not even going hunting anymore - he's just going to spend every waking moment moving the Word.
...Groucho. love your 5th Beatle line !!!!!
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