I can 'see' the projected line between teaching about King David and the MOG talking his fill from the young girls going to HQ to worship him.
I am not so sure (as yet), that I am willing to admit that we were all taught to be abusers.
I dont beleive that I was such an abuser. Nor to my knowledge was anyone in any Twig that I have ever fellowshiped in. Obviously I could well be in-correct. So I dont really agree that TWI taught us all to be abusers.
I certainly have seen a fair amount of possible abuses. Though in the cases that I saw, the abuse was never at the Twig level. It always hung around interactions with the various limb offices.
So long as most beleivers stayed away from anything to do with the limbs or corp-grads, they could be mostly free from the abuse, study the Bible and continue merrily un-aware that such was going on.
I had 'issues' with the concept of a single 'MOG'. And I brought it up, every time that I over heard anyone speaking in the context that their was a single MOG on the planet. As TWI doctrine clearly taught that a 'Man of God' is whatever beleiver is on the scene, at the time. By being a beleiver, and speaking The Word, you are taking Jesus' place to those people, and speaking Christ's words to their hearts.
Paul was a MOG at times, but so were each of those other beleivers who came to him and gave prophecys declaring the results of Paul's trip to Jerusalem. They each (including the girls) were standing for God, speaking the words of Christ in that situation. They were each MOGs.
Galen--I'm not sure we were taught to be abuser's, but I do think the line moved. As in crossing the line - the idiom used to express the idea of what is morally acceptable and what is immoral.
ww
the real question is knowing the setup that allowed the line to move in the first place....I think therein lies many situations and multiple casues..not just a formula that dictates the slow removal of ethics and morals
quote: I certainly have seen a fair amount of possible abuses. Though in the cases that I saw, the abuse was never at the Twig level. It always hung around interactions with the various limb offices.
So long as most beleivers stayed away from anything to do with the limbs or corp-grads, they could be mostly free from the abuse, study the Bible and continue merrily un-aware that such was going on.
Galen, you were isolated on one of those underwater boats (submarine) or in areas where there were no "corps-grads" nearby -- and for all practical purposes not in the same TWI as most of the rest of us.
I saw lots of "abuse" at the Twig level. People were pressured in to ABSing money that they really didn't have to spare. Folks were tricked into taking the PFAL class. Kids were tortured with wooden spoons. Peoples lives were unreasonably meddled with. People were yelled and screamed at in the name of God and the Word. People were told they were possessed. Folks were expected to serve leaders instead of the other way around like it is supposed to be. (Ever have a "leader" come and clean your house for free?)
While it was not all done by "corps-grads", I do think that the Corps was intrumental in passing down this kind of stuff either by example or by formal or informal teachings, but ultimately it originated at the top.
Yours are the kind of accounts that IMO, trump all the other smarmy "but VP taught me THE WURD" (rhymes with "turd") type of testimonies.
WayWorld was a secretive, sleazy congame that became a training ground for sociopaths. The fact that "Doctor" said some things that gave some a (false) sense of power, peace, entitlement, or whatever the draw, is wholely immaterial.
OM, just because you don't feel like you need any healing, please quit jumping in the way of those that do feel that way... there was no need for you to post that to her... spare us all... PLEASE.
Oldiesman, are you under the impression that imbus has no remorse or regret for her role, or that she does not already harbor tremendous guilt? Do you REALLY think she needed you at this point to remind her of that? Really? Do you really think she hasn't already weighed the risk of revealing this deeply personal bit of information, just so you can come out and remind her what a sinner she is?
Well, THANK YOU Oldiesman. I am UTTERLY CONVINCED that imbus would have had NO IDEA what happened until you came along and pointed it out. Whew. Good thing you were around. Man, THAT was the missing piece. THAT was the thing she did not know, which she now knows, thanks to YOU.
Are you really so eager to absolve leadership of wrongdoing, or to distract from the wrongdoing of leadership, that you would rather identify with the Pharisees that caught the woman in adultery rather than the Lord who said your sins are forgiven, go and sin no more?
She already has an Accuser, Oldiesman. She doesn't need you.
quote:Imbus, I'm got getting on your case and pray not to offend, but do you see in that instance where you too committed adultery?
Oldies, You are a real piece of work.
Here someone has bared their soul to show the mindset that allows for this kind of abuse - and what do you do? -- Attempt to accuse and convict her of adultery.
yeah OM... you really .... me off sometimes with your lack of sensitivity and overall uncaring attitude towards anyone except the "leaders" you hold such fond memories of...
I think it should be noted, for Oldiesman's sake, that Imbus did not say a single bad thing about that leader. She talked about what SHE did, and asked how SHE might have gotten that mindset. She wondered what brought HER to the point of being able to do such a thing and think it was not just right, but spiritual. Not a single negative word about the guy in this equation.
Oldiesman, your question is utterly uncalled for and you owe this woman an apology.
The last thing on my mind and heart was to try to dish out any guilt or remose on Imbus. However, I think one would do well to own up and have some personal responsibility in cases like this. I mean, she's suggesting that PFAL was the spiritual cause for her giving a blowjob?
She's owned up to her personal responsibility on this. She's also traced it to a subtle twisting of God's Word that can be traced to PFAL. The two are not mutually exclusive and you sure as hell ARE laying a guilt trip on her, otherwise you would have seen that she accepted responsibility for her actions already and asked herself the tough questions. Not just "what was I thinking?" but "why was I thinking it?" Not just "what was that thought?" but "where did that thought come from?"
Oldiesman, how DARE you? You think she ought to own up to some personal responsibility, as if she had not? How DARE you?
quote:I mean, she's suggesting that PFAL was the spiritual cause for her giving a blowjob?
Sensitive to the end.
Are you suggesting that no one twisted the teaching of PFAL to that end? Is that what you're suggesting? Are you suggesting that the following statement is false:
quote:When it was taught that King David could have any women in the kingdom and that his "sin" was having Urriah murdered, it set a non-verbal open door on the subject.
Are you suggesting, Oldiesman, that none of the so-called "leadership" in TWI took advantage of the absence of sound teaching on the subject of sex in general and adultery in particular to grant themselves a license to sin? Are you suggesting, Oldiesman, that when Imbus wants to make it clear how demeaning and insidious this practice was, that your chief obligation is to remind her what a sinner she was, as if she had given this no thought before?
Your last two posts make me sick. They are beneath you.
quote:This is the first time I have spoken anything about this and it is frightening...
Well, no wonder it's frightening, with repugnant comments like yours coming out to condemn her. Jeeze, VPW showed more compassion to the drunk after church than you showed to Imbus. If you're going to take a lesson from his behavior, take that one.
Thank you my brothers in Christ. Thank you for your sensitivity and support. It means so much to have you all speak your truth in my behalf. That speaks volumes of your spirituality and depth of heart. THANK YOU. :D-->THANKS
OM, I don't really have to say anything, your post says it all... about you. I think boy, you have been found out, what your true character is. HAVE A NICE DAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
then there are those of us that tried to move the line back....only to be accused by people like om.
Today was the Columbine anniversary.
Someone mentioned how the way the media handles it is like someone picking at a scab that then takes so much longer to heal.
When we try to clean out our wounds there are a few people here at the G-cafe and out in the world that will just pick at us...most of us know how we got hurt better than anyone else telling us!
Let’s see, this all reminds me of something........
Oh yeah! There was a woman taken in adultery and when her accusers were confronted by the only sinless man that as ever lived saying “ let him without sin cast the first stone.”
Danged if even the Pharisees didn’t just shut up and walked away. Hmmmmmm, Pharisees showing more decency?????? OM, how do you look that man in the eyes looking back at you in the mirror?
"Galen, you were isolated on one of those underwater boats (submarine) or in areas where there were no "corps-grads" nearby -- and for all practical purposes not in the same TWI as most of the rest of us."
So I have been told. Though it still seems difficult to imagine. I have traveled a lot (I think), and as such I have attended twigs up and down the East-Coast, Texas, California, Washington and Scotland.
Though I also admit that in most cases, wherever I was visiting was usually in cities where there were no "corps-grads" nearby.
But even after all that, it still seems to make sense to me, that if I traveled and visited twigs all over, and found that the over-whelming majority of Twigs had no "corps-grads" nearby, then by logic most TWI followers were in twigs without "corps-grads" nearby.
"I saw lots of "abuse" at the Twig level. People were pressured in to ABSing money that they really didn't have to spare. Folks were tricked into taking the PFAL class. Kids were tortured with wooden spoons. Peoples lives were unreasonably meddled with. People were yelled and screamed at in the name of God and the Word. People were told they were possessed. Folks were expected to serve leaders instead of the other way around like it is supposed to be. (Ever have a "leader" come and clean your house for free?)"
Hmm, I gave 10% - 15%, the same as I had given as a Baptist. I dont recall ever being in a twig when anyone was taught to give anything more than that.
I have seen what appeared to be getting 'tricked' into taking PFAL, by 4 female WOWs bringing in herds of men.
I dont think the yelling and screaming got popular until after LCM, but it did exist.
I was once told that I was born of Satan's Seed. By a Limb Coord (Steve Strezpec), after I caught him in a public lie.
I dont recall ever seeing anyone clean anyone else's house, maybe helping another beleiver to clean his house, but never a leader or follower clean someone elses house.
Have read this, apologize for skipping a few pages so I may be off topic-but then again perhaps not. The public teachings of course Never said "It's OK to be an abusive idiot, yell scream pressure people for sex etc etc" You'll not find it anywhere (poor ex-10 going through boxes in your garage!!) I have images of people digging through the dusty boxes. I did however hear from my fiance, and from other corps that whole "get your needs met" Romans psuedo logic, and the phrases about being able to "handle it". I guess it truly does depend on where, when, who you where. I felt the need to apologize for "moving the word with my skirt" and did do so...for I knew who and how I'd hurt people. I didn't have the chance to "move up the ladder" and hurt anyone further, for that I am glad. I wish I'd been on a darn submarine! I do know women who where grieviously hurt, one who had an absolute breakdown over some hot pants Rev. He did, however drive her to the clinic, which was nice of him. I don't wonder that he didn't ask his wife to do it. (a wee bit of bitterness creeps in here, she was a lovely girl and so out of her depth) This was yet another example of "waybrain" logic that seeped out of where ever (ok hq and leadership-) and got aome people missed others. My opinion. I was saddened to hear the stories from twi#2 version, as I skated past that, by months, but was in the loop enough to hear some of it. The lcm after he got comfortable w/power-well oh my goodness what an absolute mess. I guess it does help to rant and rave and vent and try to have discussions on gs cafe here, to try and reconnect the bond, and we're moved by a common "whoops what did we do?" internal questioning, and some serious loneliness. I do have moments of missing the fellowship...but am amazed at the utter seriousness with which some of this is taken. Not to belittle, honestly...maybe I just don't get it. I seem to think that everyone is goodhearted to some degree. One just has to discern the motives. However thanks to this I now know what it is to "flame" someone!
I don't have words to describe how I feel about your treatment of Imbus. Hmm... did TWI teach you to be an abuser? No empathy for a victim. Callous comments. Always blame the victim. And, yes, older men in positions of authority seducing young women are not considered valid, adult, consensual relationships by anyone but TWI apologists.
You convict the great VP with your own actions. Thanks for being a great, living example of the impact of his "never blame leadership for anything" mentality.
Imbus,
I have some personal experience by way of a loved one who got duped at a young, impressionable age. It's been well over 10 years but she still goes to counseling on a
regular basis to help with the hurt and shame. The good news is that she's doing much better and has been able to put a lot behind her. Lots of friends, family and loved ones help a lot. As I'm sure God knows who you are, I'll keep you in my prayers. Try to ignore people like OM and stick with those that love you.
Oops, like all kinds of crazy flipped backwards and saw post By Imbus-
don't know you, may never know you-but indeed sorry to hear it happened to you-
Oldiesman, you can dish out some hurtful stuff.
I am beginning to admire some of you for your defense of Imbus. This is such an "unreal" world these posts and etc. I feel grateful that with time my wounds are less hurtful, and Imbus I wish the same for you. Whats to be frightened of? Does anyone know where you live or who you are? Then Cool! I figure, if my first husband couldn't kill me, then, hey what's to worry? He could swing and quote scripture! amazing feat, men normally can't multi-task like that!
Imbus, I'm sorry you had to go through that, both the past ugliness and being being treated badly by that poster.
Oh, Cleaning! We had the blessing of cleaning the limb home--or doing their enormous lawn-- every other month or so. They rotated it around the branch so every one got to 'give.'
The LC was married with teen age children, neither worked outside the home--full time twi, mid nineties-- but they needed help cleaning their home. Sheesh.
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Galen
I can 'see' the projected line between teaching about King David and the MOG talking his fill from the young girls going to HQ to worship him.
I am not so sure (as yet), that I am willing to admit that we were all taught to be abusers.
I dont beleive that I was such an abuser. Nor to my knowledge was anyone in any Twig that I have ever fellowshiped in. Obviously I could well be in-correct. So I dont really agree that TWI taught us all to be abusers.
I certainly have seen a fair amount of possible abuses. Though in the cases that I saw, the abuse was never at the Twig level. It always hung around interactions with the various limb offices.
So long as most beleivers stayed away from anything to do with the limbs or corp-grads, they could be mostly free from the abuse, study the Bible and continue merrily un-aware that such was going on.
I had 'issues' with the concept of a single 'MOG'. And I brought it up, every time that I over heard anyone speaking in the context that their was a single MOG on the planet. As TWI doctrine clearly taught that a 'Man of God' is whatever beleiver is on the scene, at the time. By being a beleiver, and speaking The Word, you are taking Jesus' place to those people, and speaking Christ's words to their hearts.
Paul was a MOG at times, but so were each of those other beleivers who came to him and gave prophecys declaring the results of Paul's trip to Jerusalem. They each (including the girls) were standing for God, speaking the words of Christ in that situation. They were each MOGs.
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washingtonweather
Galen--I'm not sure we were taught to be abuser's, but I do think the line moved. As in crossing the line - the idiom used to express the idea of what is morally acceptable and what is immoral.
ww
the real question is knowing the setup that allowed the line to move in the first place....I think therein lies many situations and multiple casues..not just a formula that dictates the slow removal of ethics and morals
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Schuks
I now have nuts. They were grown out of necessity of protecting my child.
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oldiesman
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Goey
Galen Posted:
Galen, you were isolated on one of those underwater boats (submarine) or in areas where there were no "corps-grads" nearby -- and for all practical purposes not in the same TWI as most of the rest of us.
I saw lots of "abuse" at the Twig level. People were pressured in to ABSing money that they really didn't have to spare. Folks were tricked into taking the PFAL class. Kids were tortured with wooden spoons. Peoples lives were unreasonably meddled with. People were yelled and screamed at in the name of God and the Word. People were told they were possessed. Folks were expected to serve leaders instead of the other way around like it is supposed to be. (Ever have a "leader" come and clean your house for free?)
While it was not all done by "corps-grads", I do think that the Corps was intrumental in passing down this kind of stuff either by example or by formal or informal teachings, but ultimately it originated at the top.
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George Aar
Imbus,
Yours are the kind of accounts that IMO, trump all the other smarmy "but VP taught me THE WURD" (rhymes with "turd") type of testimonies.
WayWorld was a secretive, sleazy congame that became a training ground for sociopaths. The fact that "Doctor" said some things that gave some a (false) sense of power, peace, entitlement, or whatever the draw, is wholely immaterial.
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Tom Strange
OM, just because you don't feel like you need any healing, please quit jumping in the way of those that do feel that way... there was no need for you to post that to her... spare us all... PLEASE.
You fool no one, save yourself.
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Raf
Oldiesman, are you under the impression that imbus has no remorse or regret for her role, or that she does not already harbor tremendous guilt? Do you REALLY think she needed you at this point to remind her of that? Really? Do you really think she hasn't already weighed the risk of revealing this deeply personal bit of information, just so you can come out and remind her what a sinner she is?
Well, THANK YOU Oldiesman. I am UTTERLY CONVINCED that imbus would have had NO IDEA what happened until you came along and pointed it out. Whew. Good thing you were around. Man, THAT was the missing piece. THAT was the thing she did not know, which she now knows, thanks to YOU.
Are you really so eager to absolve leadership of wrongdoing, or to distract from the wrongdoing of leadership, that you would rather identify with the Pharisees that caught the woman in adultery rather than the Lord who said your sins are forgiven, go and sin no more?
She already has an Accuser, Oldiesman. She doesn't need you.
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Goey
Oldies said:
Oldies, You are a real piece of work.
Here someone has bared their soul to show the mindset that allows for this kind of abuse - and what do you do? -- Attempt to accuse and convict her of adultery.
You are one very ignorant and insensitive *@$T@#!
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Tom Strange
yeah OM... you really .... me off sometimes with your lack of sensitivity and overall uncaring attitude towards anyone except the "leaders" you hold such fond memories of...
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Raf
I think it should be noted, for Oldiesman's sake, that Imbus did not say a single bad thing about that leader. She talked about what SHE did, and asked how SHE might have gotten that mindset. She wondered what brought HER to the point of being able to do such a thing and think it was not just right, but spiritual. Not a single negative word about the guy in this equation.
Oldiesman, your question is utterly uncalled for and you owe this woman an apology.
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oldiesman
The last thing on my mind and heart was to try to dish out any guilt or remose on Imbus. However, I think one would do well to own up and have some personal responsibility in cases like this. I mean, she's suggesting that PFAL was the spiritual cause for her giving a blowjob?
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Raf
She's owned up to her personal responsibility on this. She's also traced it to a subtle twisting of God's Word that can be traced to PFAL. The two are not mutually exclusive and you sure as hell ARE laying a guilt trip on her, otherwise you would have seen that she accepted responsibility for her actions already and asked herself the tough questions. Not just "what was I thinking?" but "why was I thinking it?" Not just "what was that thought?" but "where did that thought come from?"
Oldiesman, how DARE you? You think she ought to own up to some personal responsibility, as if she had not? How DARE you?
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Raf
Sensitive to the end.
Are you suggesting that no one twisted the teaching of PFAL to that end? Is that what you're suggesting? Are you suggesting that the following statement is false:
Are you suggesting, Oldiesman, that none of the so-called "leadership" in TWI took advantage of the absence of sound teaching on the subject of sex in general and adultery in particular to grant themselves a license to sin? Are you suggesting, Oldiesman, that when Imbus wants to make it clear how demeaning and insidious this practice was, that your chief obligation is to remind her what a sinner she was, as if she had given this no thought before?
Your last two posts make me sick. They are beneath you.
Well, no wonder it's frightening, with repugnant comments like yours coming out to condemn her. Jeeze, VPW showed more compassion to the drunk after church than you showed to Imbus. If you're going to take a lesson from his behavior, take that one.
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Tom Strange
OM said:
OM, if you're not going to quit lying to yourself, at least give us the consideration.Link to comment
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imbus
Thank you my brothers in Christ. Thank you for your sensitivity and support. It means so much to have you all speak your truth in my behalf. That speaks volumes of your spirituality and depth of heart. THANK YOU.
:D-->THANKS
OM, I don't really have to say anything, your post says it all... about you. I think boy, you have been found out, what your true character is. HAVE A NICE DAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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washingtonweather
then there are those of us that tried to move the line back....only to be accused by people like om.
Today was the Columbine anniversary.
Someone mentioned how the way the media handles it is like someone picking at a scab that then takes so much longer to heal.
When we try to clean out our wounds there are a few people here at the G-cafe and out in the world that will just pick at us...most of us know how we got hurt better than anyone else telling us!
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Grizzy
Let’s see, this all reminds me of something........
Oh yeah! There was a woman taken in adultery and when her accusers were confronted by the only sinless man that as ever lived saying “ let him without sin cast the first stone.”
Danged if even the Pharisees didn’t just shut up and walked away. Hmmmmmm, Pharisees showing more decency?????? OM, how do you look that man in the eyes looking back at you in the mirror?
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Danny
OM Boy will you go any lower?
I think I can find in another tread where you spent the night with a girl looking for sponsorship and you said you know what we did all night.
I'll pray for you because it seems you have lost your way.
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Galen
Goey:
"Galen, you were isolated on one of those underwater boats (submarine) or in areas where there were no "corps-grads" nearby -- and for all practical purposes not in the same TWI as most of the rest of us."
So I have been told. Though it still seems difficult to imagine. I have traveled a lot (I think), and as such I have attended twigs up and down the East-Coast, Texas, California, Washington and Scotland.
Though I also admit that in most cases, wherever I was visiting was usually in cities where there were no "corps-grads" nearby.
But even after all that, it still seems to make sense to me, that if I traveled and visited twigs all over, and found that the over-whelming majority of Twigs had no "corps-grads" nearby, then by logic most TWI followers were in twigs without "corps-grads" nearby.
"I saw lots of "abuse" at the Twig level. People were pressured in to ABSing money that they really didn't have to spare. Folks were tricked into taking the PFAL class. Kids were tortured with wooden spoons. Peoples lives were unreasonably meddled with. People were yelled and screamed at in the name of God and the Word. People were told they were possessed. Folks were expected to serve leaders instead of the other way around like it is supposed to be. (Ever have a "leader" come and clean your house for free?)"
Hmm, I gave 10% - 15%, the same as I had given as a Baptist. I dont recall ever being in a twig when anyone was taught to give anything more than that.
I have seen what appeared to be getting 'tricked' into taking PFAL, by 4 female WOWs bringing in herds of men.
I dont think the yelling and screaming got popular until after LCM, but it did exist.
I was once told that I was born of Satan's Seed. By a Limb Coord (Steve Strezpec), after I caught him in a public lie.
I dont recall ever seeing anyone clean anyone else's house, maybe helping another beleiver to clean his house, but never a leader or follower clean someone elses house.
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andreatheflorist
Have read this, apologize for skipping a few pages so I may be off topic-but then again perhaps not. The public teachings of course Never said "It's OK to be an abusive idiot, yell scream pressure people for sex etc etc" You'll not find it anywhere (poor ex-10 going through boxes in your garage!!) I have images of people digging through the dusty boxes. I did however hear from my fiance, and from other corps that whole "get your needs met" Romans psuedo logic, and the phrases about being able to "handle it". I guess it truly does depend on where, when, who you where. I felt the need to apologize for "moving the word with my skirt" and did do so...for I knew who and how I'd hurt people. I didn't have the chance to "move up the ladder" and hurt anyone further, for that I am glad. I wish I'd been on a darn submarine! I do know women who where grieviously hurt, one who had an absolute breakdown over some hot pants Rev. He did, however drive her to the clinic, which was nice of him. I don't wonder that he didn't ask his wife to do it. (a wee bit of bitterness creeps in here, she was a lovely girl and so out of her depth) This was yet another example of "waybrain" logic that seeped out of where ever (ok hq and leadership-) and got aome people missed others. My opinion. I was saddened to hear the stories from twi#2 version, as I skated past that, by months, but was in the loop enough to hear some of it. The lcm after he got comfortable w/power-well oh my goodness what an absolute mess. I guess it does help to rant and rave and vent and try to have discussions on gs cafe here, to try and reconnect the bond, and we're moved by a common "whoops what did we do?" internal questioning, and some serious loneliness. I do have moments of missing the fellowship...but am amazed at the utter seriousness with which some of this is taken. Not to belittle, honestly...maybe I just don't get it. I seem to think that everyone is goodhearted to some degree. One just has to discern the motives. However thanks to this I now know what it is to "flame" someone!
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JustThinking
OM,
I don't have words to describe how I feel about your treatment of Imbus. Hmm... did TWI teach you to be an abuser? No empathy for a victim. Callous comments. Always blame the victim. And, yes, older men in positions of authority seducing young women are not considered valid, adult, consensual relationships by anyone but TWI apologists.
You convict the great VP with your own actions. Thanks for being a great, living example of the impact of his "never blame leadership for anything" mentality.
Imbus,
I have some personal experience by way of a loved one who got duped at a young, impressionable age. It's been well over 10 years but she still goes to counseling on a
regular basis to help with the hurt and shame. The good news is that she's doing much better and has been able to put a lot behind her. Lots of friends, family and loved ones help a lot. As I'm sure God knows who you are, I'll keep you in my prayers. Try to ignore people like OM and stick with those that love you.
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andreatheflorist
Oops, like all kinds of crazy flipped backwards and saw post By Imbus-
don't know you, may never know you-but indeed sorry to hear it happened to you-
Oldiesman, you can dish out some hurtful stuff.
I am beginning to admire some of you for your defense of Imbus. This is such an "unreal" world these posts and etc. I feel grateful that with time my wounds are less hurtful, and Imbus I wish the same for you. Whats to be frightened of? Does anyone know where you live or who you are? Then Cool! I figure, if my first husband couldn't kill me, then, hey what's to worry? He could swing and quote scripture! amazing feat, men normally can't multi-task like that!
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Bramble
Imbus, I'm sorry you had to go through that, both the past ugliness and being being treated badly by that poster.
Oh, Cleaning! We had the blessing of cleaning the limb home--or doing their enormous lawn-- every other month or so. They rotated it around the branch so every one got to 'give.'
The LC was married with teen age children, neither worked outside the home--full time twi, mid nineties-- but they needed help cleaning their home. Sheesh.
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