The ADV.Class special in 99 was just as bad.....I walked away each felt guilty or ending session thinking, okay,what did I learn and always felt unspiritual..haha
Do you get this?..I felt guilty!
WAP and the ADV. Class WAP was all bunch of muckypuke...out of his mouth spwwed that stuff..I through it all away......Dont even want it in my personal possesions.
HOPE!!!!! Leave you alone with GOOGLE and you can accomplish just about anything!
YEPPIE HOPE, he did what he did best, find a fact and twist it like gumby until it illustrated his own theology.
The thank you cards. ORIGINALLY, (before it became elevated to an art form) the cards were lcm's way of fishing for TESTIMONIALS. Remember how he just LOVED those little quotes to use in the way rag, or heirs or that DUMB AND STUPID Way of Abundance and Power little handout/brochure that was made up of only testimonial quotes?
quote:One of our new students got diahrea after the class and never returned.
:D--> :(-->
Sounds like a TV commercial, one where the people are smiling and laughing, playing tennis, leading happy active lives, and at the bottom in small print the screen reads:
Possible side effects may include headaches, abdominal pain, throat cramps, liver failure, nausea, diarrhea, dry mouth, moist eye, dripping ear, nodding head and sexual dysfunction. Do not take if you are pregnant, have been pregnant, thinking of becoming pregnant or know anyone who could be pregnant.
And then the voice over says:
The way to abundance and power...it runs in the family!
Too Funny, the LC even made me drive her out to the womans house the second night of the class with a bottle of KAOPECTATE!!!!
She never came out of the restroom to even talk to us. In fact her husband was a cop and I had to remind the LC of this and we were overstepping our bounds.
I was reproved for stating what I believe our boundaries were. I know I wouldn't want anyone to show up at my house after they caused me to be sick.
What THE ORIGINAL SIN was came to me while I was looking at that Michaelangelo painting...Eurika!
The Serpent said to Eve, "Pull on my finger..." and she did. God prevented the Serpant from ever pulling that gag again by removing his his hands, arms, legs and feet and making him slither on the ground.
During my 1st & last WAP class, the limb coord made us write our thank you notes to LCM, collected them, had his wife proof read them, gave them back to us and made us rewrite them with her corrections and "improvements" and she re-read them before they were sent. Our class also had to give LCM a handmade card and a nice gift. No wonder LCM got deceived... reading and believing all that flattery (lies) and keeping those gifts (bribes).
I had not thought about those thank you notes regarding the class. We had to write about what part of the class blessed us most and why. Then the proof reading and editing of the notes came. Then they were sent to HQ and then some of them were printed in The Way Rag for advertising.
Also the gift from each area to LCM. Giving a gift to the MOG was so regimented.. Gift giving should be thought thru but jeeze. I believe there must have been a specific list given to the areas and each area told to give a gift and each one would present something from the pre-made list of items the MOG wanted.
Thank you notes should come from the heart for something you are truly thankful for. Gifts should also come from the heart and bless both the giver and the receiver.
OMG, Bless notes! The name starts with "B" and ends with "s." Says it all. At my last class with TWI, I saw people actually writing rough drafts frantically before doing the "final" copy. (Said as he rolls his eyes)
Radar,
I had forgotten about that book. Nothing but pages of alleged comments made by wayfers about their own class. "It changed my life." "I"m now able to live life as more than a conquerer becuase..." Yawn. Is there such a thing as word addiction? It was a never ending push to give more dramatic praise than the last person.
Yet another stupid idea floating down the TWI river.
ole craiggers started believing the publicity about him and no one reminded him that the only reason he was getting flatter was because it was forced from the little wayfers.
they read and re-read those dam* letters and made people re-write them so many times. in our classes sometimes we weren't allowed to write on the "pretty paper" until our letter was approved by the class coordinators.
twi takes all the things people do because they feel it in their hearts and force people to do them. We learned very well how to pretend and become the hypocrites they are.
Could those "bless letters" be LCM's equivalent of VP's "From Birth to the Corps" papers, a way to figure out who would be easy to be victimized (er,"blessed") by his Moginess?
HopeR! I googled as well... (when Radar originally posted)... I saw that picture and many others... I couldn't figure it out either... NONE of them even hinted of lesbianism... I don't know... oh well, consider the source...
Now, I can look at the picture you posted and very easily see the connection that Golfie pointed out (the original "pull my finger" theory)... that one makes at least some sense...
Wierwille at least had some grounding in mainstream Christianity and actually earned his Bachelors and Masters degrees; Martindale was grounded in nothing but Wayspeak, so what's the surprise that he made no sense as an earlier poster noted?
Martindale either tried to bury us in b*ll...., making claims about nonexistant textual variations or definitions of words; or he would act like fairly ordinary sections of scripture, or word usages were of earth shaking importance.
He keys off of Job 38:30 The waters are hid as with a stone, and the face of the deep is frozen. comparing it to Genesis 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep...
From this he makes the assumption that "the earth was without form, and void" is the adversary going to "the face of the deep" and freezing it. Since the Devil is without light, and therefore without heat, naturally his presence would cause the waters that surround the universe to freeze. Somehow that makes the earth without form and void. -->
For extra credit he throws in Job 38:29 Out of whose womb came the ice? and the hoary frost of heaven, who hath gendered it? He decides that the use of the term "womb" must mean that the water surrounding the universe is a salt water solution. But wait! There's more! He uses this verse to show how the waters from the deep caused Noah's Flood: Job 38:8 Or [who] shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, [as if] it had issued out of the womb?
A few logical points that The Brow misses:
Job 38:30 says that the Face of The Deep IS frozen, not WAS frozen.
Job 38:8 figuratively uses a womb to describe water gushing forth, not to describe saltiness
Job 38:9 is making the point that the ice DIDN'T come out of a womb - and how come he passed up the figurative use of "gendered"? Thought he'd not walk by an opportunity to talk about a penis.
The problem with Martindale's whole theory, aside from his silly leaps of illogic, is that he ignores II Peter 3:5-6 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: - some say this refers to Noah's Flood, but Wierwille in PFAL says that this section refers to the three heavens and earths.
Another tidbit is that the word "frozen" doesn't have to be translated that way. It could be "stopped", "restrained" or "immobilized". That would fit into God's promise to Noah that he would not allow the earth to be flooded like that again.
His whole frozen deep scenario does not fit into even a literalist reading of the bible.
Tom! Oaks! OLM'S everywhere! An important piece of the puzzle is here!
The flood in Noah's time...it WAS saline water, SALT WATER! LCM was close, but off by the slightest bit and therein lies the counterfeit! So close and yet denying the truth!
It was this salt water flood of dethawed aminiotic fluids that caused the incredible growth of
AMAZING SEA MONKEYS!!!
throughout the earth!!! It had to have been so intense it washed them off of Mars, drenched the earth with them and spread them throughout the planet!
It's the only explanation! And it makes sense!!! too!
WAP was so confusing .... thinking about it is giving me a headache.
So does the advesary have a larger domain than the earth?
In the book of Job the Lord asked satan "Whence cometh thou?" satan said " from going to and fro in the earth and from walking up and down in it"
I had always believed the advesary had rules too! He would have to be able to travel to and beyond the firmament for this next section as I understood it.
------------------------------------------
Just my notes on the usage of these versus, not sure I understand this but I am giving it to you because I think I understood slightly different.
Gen 1:7 And God made the firmament and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so
If I understood Craig for Gen 1:7
that the waters on the earth itself which are the waters under the firmament (the deep) separated from the waters above the firmament (also the deep beyond the firmament in outer space) ?
TWO SETS OF WATERS ONE ON EARTH ONE ABOVE THE FIRMAMENT????
This is where LCM used that special Scientific 3 dimensional GLOBE (I didn't write down the name of it does anyone recall?)
Used Globe of the earth to explain that the waters from the flood of Noah came from the flood gates that opened in the deep beyond the firmament (in outer space). Although My understanding is they were frozen too?
Job 38:29 Out of whose womb came the ice? and the hoary frost of heaven, who hath gendered it?
heaven = representing the deep beyond the firmament .... still ice still frozen
who hath gendered it = Lucifer
Job 38:30 the waters are hid as with a stone, and the face of the deep is frozen.
hid=hardened
still talking about the waters of the deep in space.
This is where he also talked about the giant ice cubes that scientist say are floating in space and could take out the planet literally.
I am no scientist .... I am not even going to tell you I understand this.
My point to this is ....
Does this lead us to the knowledge of our living Lord and and Savior Jesus Christ?
Is this what gets you saved? Uplifts you?
The teaching/instruction was so poorly given, we all probably have different notes in our syllabi and different understandings .. no likemindedness on this crap.
Or was this just suppose to be impressive speach for the MOG in attempt to show off his scientific knowledge?
LOL, TWI-ers were talking about "the faces of the deep" theories back in the seventies, trying to put the verses together. It cracks me up that all that mental gymnastics made its way into a foundational class!
What THE ORIGINAL SIN was came to me while I was looking at that Michaelangelo painting...Eurika!
The Serpent said to Eve, "Pull on my finger..." and she did. God prevented the Serpant from ever pulling that gag again by removing his his hands, arms, legs and feet and making him slither on the ground.
The question to ask about that painting is what was eve doing before the serpent distracted her?
Just picture adam and eve in the same positions but with eve's head turned the other direction.
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Hope R.
Where do we begin? Those of us who sat through that class a few times still don't get half the stuff LCM was teaching. And it wasn't because he was more spiritual than the rest of us... IMO - it was
likeaneagle
The ADV.Class special in 99 was just as bad.....I walked away each felt guilty or ending session thinking, okay,what did I learn and always felt unspiritual..haha
Do you get this?..I felt guilty!
WAP and the ADV. Class WAP was all bunch of muckypuke...out of his mouth spwwed that stuff..I through it all away......Dont even want it in my personal possesions.
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Radar OReilly
HOPE!!!!! Leave you alone with GOOGLE and you can accomplish just about anything!
YEPPIE HOPE, he did what he did best, find a fact and twist it like gumby until it illustrated his own theology.
The thank you cards. ORIGINALLY, (before it became elevated to an art form) the cards were lcm's way of fishing for TESTIMONIALS. Remember how he just LOVED those little quotes to use in the way rag, or heirs or that DUMB AND STUPID Way of Abundance and Power little handout/brochure that was made up of only testimonial quotes?
ROR
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The Skeptical Texan
Wow! After reading the posts on this thread, it's amazing that anybody is in TWI at all.
I knew that the Rev. L Craig Martindale was a jerk back in 1981, but I didn't know he was so demented!
Weird, just damn weird!
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socks
Digitalis-
Sounds like a TV commercial, one where the people are smiling and laughing, playing tennis, leading happy active lives, and at the bottom in small print the screen reads:
Possible side effects may include headaches, abdominal pain, throat cramps, liver failure, nausea, diarrhea, dry mouth, moist eye, dripping ear, nodding head and sexual dysfunction. Do not take if you are pregnant, have been pregnant, thinking of becoming pregnant or know anyone who could be pregnant.
And then the voice over says:
The way to abundance and power...it runs in the family!
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Hope R.
SOCKS!
ROTFLMAO!!!!
Absolutely perfect!
Be careful, someone might plagiarize it!!!
:D--> 
;)--> 
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dmiller
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Digitalis
OMG SOCKS !!!!
ROFLMAO That was histerical!!!
Too Funny, the LC even made me drive her out to the womans house the second night of the class with a bottle of KAOPECTATE!!!!
She never came out of the restroom to even talk to us. In fact her husband was a cop and I had to remind the LC of this and we were overstepping our bounds.
I was reproved for stating what I believe our boundaries were. I know I wouldn't want anyone to show up at my house after they caused me to be sick.
Digi
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Golfie
What THE ORIGINAL SIN was came to me while I was looking at that Michaelangelo painting...Eurika!
The Serpent said to Eve, "Pull on my finger..." and she did. God prevented the Serpant from ever pulling that gag again by removing his his hands, arms, legs and feet and making him slither on the ground.
During my 1st & last WAP class, the limb coord made us write our thank you notes to LCM, collected them, had his wife proof read them, gave them back to us and made us rewrite them with her corrections and "improvements" and she re-read them before they were sent. Our class also had to give LCM a handmade card and a nice gift. No wonder LCM got deceived... reading and believing all that flattery (lies) and keeping those gifts (bribes).
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Digitalis
Golfie
I had not thought about those thank you notes regarding the class. We had to write about what part of the class blessed us most and why. Then the proof reading and editing of the notes came. Then they were sent to HQ and then some of them were printed in The Way Rag for advertising.
Also the gift from each area to LCM. Giving a gift to the MOG was so regimented.. Gift giving should be thought thru but jeeze. I believe there must have been a specific list given to the areas and each area told to give a gift and each one would present something from the pre-made list of items the MOG wanted.
Thank you notes should come from the heart for something you are truly thankful for. Gifts should also come from the heart and bless both the giver and the receiver.
Digi
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JustThinking
OMG, Bless notes! The name starts with "B" and ends with "s." Says it all. At my last class with TWI, I saw people actually writing rough drafts frantically before doing the "final" copy. (Said as he rolls his eyes)
Radar,
I had forgotten about that book. Nothing but pages of alleged comments made by wayfers about their own class. "It changed my life." "I"m now able to live life as more than a conquerer becuase..." Yawn. Is there such a thing as word addiction? It was a never ending push to give more dramatic praise than the last person.
Yet another stupid idea floating down the TWI river.
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insurgent
ole craiggers started believing the publicity about him and no one reminded him that the only reason he was getting flatter was because it was forced from the little wayfers.
they read and re-read those dam* letters and made people re-write them so many times. in our classes sometimes we weren't allowed to write on the "pretty paper" until our letter was approved by the class coordinators.
twi takes all the things people do because they feel it in their hearts and force people to do them. We learned very well how to pretend and become the hypocrites they are.
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shazdancer
Hey Bramble and Radar,
Could those "bless letters" be LCM's equivalent of VP's "From Birth to the Corps" papers, a way to figure out who would be easy to be victimized (er,"blessed") by his Moginess?
Regards,
Shaz
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def59
Faking the walk was a master's level course in the way.
After all leadering were walking past the spirit and manifesting the word of profit and the word of way college.
So it was impressed on us wayfers to learn wayspeak to get leadersh*p off our *s*es
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WordWolf
Shaz,
Statistically, it's more likely those "bless" notes were
props to hold up his ego, ego massages with all the
sincerity of canned applause, the equivalent of what
God would have gotten from us if he'd made us robots
instead of beings with free will.
They were all basically carbon copies of 3 or 4 originals,
so it would be impossible to see any victims unless someone
wrote something truly original there. Personally, I
doubt lcm had the brains to pull that one off by himself.
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Tom Strange
HopeR! I googled as well... (when Radar originally posted)... I saw that picture and many others... I couldn't figure it out either... NONE of them even hinted of lesbianism... I don't know... oh well, consider the source...
Now, I can look at the picture you posted and very easily see the connection that Golfie pointed out (the original "pull my finger" theory)... that one makes at least some sense...
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Oakspear
Wierwille at least had some grounding in mainstream Christianity and actually earned his Bachelors and Masters degrees; Martindale was grounded in nothing but Wayspeak, so what's the surprise that he made no sense as an earlier poster noted?
Martindale either tried to bury us in b*ll...., making claims about nonexistant textual variations or definitions of words; or he would act like fairly ordinary sections of scripture, or word usages were of earth shaking importance.
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Oakspear
Martindale's version of "The Face of The Deep":
He keys off of Job 38:30 The waters are hid as with a stone, and the face of the deep is frozen. comparing it to Genesis 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep...
From this he makes the assumption that "the earth was without form, and void" is the adversary going to "the face of the deep" and freezing it. Since the Devil is without light, and therefore without heat, naturally his presence would cause the waters that surround the universe to freeze. Somehow that makes the earth without form and void.
-->
For extra credit he throws in Job 38:29 Out of whose womb came the ice? and the hoary frost of heaven, who hath gendered it? He decides that the use of the term "womb" must mean that the water surrounding the universe is a salt water solution. But wait! There's more! He uses this verse to show how the waters from the deep caused Noah's Flood: Job 38:8 Or [who] shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, [as if] it had issued out of the womb?
A few logical points that The Brow misses:
Job 38:30 says that the Face of The Deep IS frozen, not WAS frozen.
Job 38:8 figuratively uses a womb to describe water gushing forth, not to describe saltiness
Job 38:9 is making the point that the ice DIDN'T come out of a womb - and how come he passed up the figurative use of "gendered"? Thought he'd not walk by an opportunity to talk about a penis.
The problem with Martindale's whole theory, aside from his silly leaps of illogic, is that he ignores II Peter 3:5-6 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: - some say this refers to Noah's Flood, but Wierwille in PFAL says that this section refers to the three heavens and earths.
Another tidbit is that the word "frozen" doesn't have to be translated that way. It could be "stopped", "restrained" or "immobilized". That would fit into God's promise to Noah that he would not allow the earth to be flooded like that again.
His whole frozen deep scenario does not fit into even a literalist reading of the bible.
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Hope R.
Golfie and Tommy Strangeguy... wonder if Wiley got his idea from the Michelangelo painting?
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socks
Tom! Oaks! OLM'S everywhere! An important piece of the puzzle is here!
The flood in Noah's time...it WAS saline water, SALT WATER! LCM was close, but off by the slightest bit and therein lies the counterfeit! So close and yet denying the truth!
It was this salt water flood of dethawed aminiotic fluids that caused the incredible growth of
AMAZING SEA MONKEYS!!!
throughout the earth!!! It had to have been so intense it washed them off of Mars, drenched the earth with them and spread them throughout the planet!
It's the only explanation! And it makes sense!!! too!
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Digitalis
WAP was so confusing .... thinking about it is giving me a headache.
So does the advesary have a larger domain than the earth?
In the book of Job the Lord asked satan "Whence cometh thou?" satan said " from going to and fro in the earth and from walking up and down in it"
I had always believed the advesary had rules too! He would have to be able to travel to and beyond the firmament for this next section as I understood it.
------------------------------------------
Just my notes on the usage of these versus, not sure I understand this but I am giving it to you because I think I understood slightly different.
Gen 1:7 And God made the firmament and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so
If I understood Craig for Gen 1:7
that the waters on the earth itself which are the waters under the firmament (the deep) separated from the waters above the firmament (also the deep beyond the firmament in outer space) ?
TWO SETS OF WATERS ONE ON EARTH ONE ABOVE THE FIRMAMENT????
This is where LCM used that special Scientific 3 dimensional GLOBE (I didn't write down the name of it does anyone recall?)
Used Globe of the earth to explain that the waters from the flood of Noah came from the flood gates that opened in the deep beyond the firmament (in outer space). Although My understanding is they were frozen too?
Job 38:29 Out of whose womb came the ice? and the hoary frost of heaven, who hath gendered it?
heaven = representing the deep beyond the firmament .... still ice still frozen
who hath gendered it = Lucifer
Job 38:30 the waters are hid as with a stone, and the face of the deep is frozen.
hid=hardened
still talking about the waters of the deep in space.
This is where he also talked about the giant ice cubes that scientist say are floating in space and could take out the planet literally.
I am no scientist .... I am not even going to tell you I understand this.
My point to this is ....
Does this lead us to the knowledge of our living Lord and and Savior Jesus Christ?
Is this what gets you saved? Uplifts you?
The teaching/instruction was so poorly given, we all probably have different notes in our syllabi and different understandings .. no likemindedness on this crap.
Or was this just suppose to be impressive speach for the MOG in attempt to show off his scientific knowledge?
Digi
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shazdancer
LOL, TWI-ers were talking about "the faces of the deep" theories back in the seventies, trying to put the verses together. It cracks me up that all that mental gymnastics made its way into a foundational class!
Shaz
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My3Cents
The question to ask about that painting is what was eve doing before the serpent distracted her?
Just picture adam and eve in the same positions but with eve's head turned the other direction.
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Sunesis
Yes, my thoughts exactly My 3 Cents. I thought I was the only one who noticed that, but thought I would be polite and not say anything - LOL!
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Tom Strange
Are you guys talking about HopeR's picture?... let me look... OH NO!!! NOT THAT!!!
Now that doesn't look like Lesbianism to me!
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