abortions happened alot we all agree , people were conseled to have abortions we all agree.
Hope R. shared that LCM taught abortion was not murder in an advanced class in a previous post .
VPW clearly taught breath life in the PFAL class.
it was taught as Gods words and all good believers wanted and attempted to believe pfal. and/or teachings from the way.
I understand what oldiesman is asking about at what point does a life become a life in other words if an abortion is approved of and the child could "take a breath" if given a chance and I wonder as well and would have liked to have heard some posts about that issue.
that I understand but the fact abortion was given as an option and was even taught as a choice for woman in life without the consequence of sin (murder) was always pretty much a given and never changed .
The part I do not understand is this and I need someone to explain clearly IF a person does not agree with what pfal taught as breath life and wanted to go into a program that the twi had for ITS FOLLOWERS (meaning its doctrine and leaders) why would they do it? Why would they seek consel from something they do not believe as truth? As I said before if it is about someone changing their mind about what they once thought and now do not well that happened to everyone about one thing or another.
I see this as twi teaching something and then following through with its practical application in real life so naturaly abortions happened amass it was taught from day one that pregnancy was not a life.
what is the problem then seriously? where is the wrongness or the lie or the evilness?
not in whether abortion is correct for you or not it is a personal thing as I stated before between peole and their beliefs. But twi always taught it never claimed they didnt teach it and actualy helped others participate in its application... where did they lie about anything concerning this?
if ya think abortion is wrong you do and you have every right. YET clearly twi never did and still does not and never claimed to believe such.
So how can widespread abortions be such an outrage or shock to those who chose to listen to the teachings or consel?
If this thread is some how morphed into a support group for those who feel victimized by a abortion and now feel a need for compassion and love in their regret and sorrow and I missed it .
sorry in advance then.
but as far as what old man started this thread about at what point is life a life and how and what twi taught concerning it was what was interesting to me .
I won't even dignify the first part of your above post with a response.
as for the second part:
quote:but as far as what old man started this thread about at what point is life a life and how and what twi taught concerning it was what was interesting to me.
It's about Abortion. It's about are you killing something or not. And HOW TWI presented it to the masses and HOW they presented it individually in counselling sessions HAS A LOT TO DO WITH IT. How it affected different people has a lot to do with it.
The point is that TWI publicly taught that abortion was not murder, and it was up to the woman to choose whether it was right or not for her (according to a pad of belief sheets TWI gave me when I went out WOW), yet PRIVATELY reneged on that "choice" and required Rascal and others to abort pregnancies for no legitimate reason. Therefore, it was two-faced, manipulative, and coercive--the exact opposite of a ministry supposedly based on godly love and moral principles.
That you or I were not personally privy to this coercion does not mean it did not exist, especially in the face of Rascal's first-hand testimony. One can't say TWI was innocent of forced abortion just because it wasn't preached from the Big Tent.
quote:Hope R. shared that LCM taught abortion was not murder in an advanced class in a previous post .
no, she did not. she said in WAP, 10 he went into a lot of detail to explain that a fetus was not living
VPW clearly taught breath life in the PFAL class.
yes he did
it was taught as Gods words and all good believers wanted and attempted to believe pfal. and/or teachings from the way.ABORTION was not taught publicly. The foundations for acceptance of abortion were laid in those two instances.
quote:The part I do not understand is this and I need someone to explain clearly IF a person does not agree with what pfal taught as breath life and wanted to go into a program that the twi had for ITS FOLLOWERS (meaning its doctrine and leaders) why would they do it?
there's a big difference between "teaching breath life" and "they taught abortion", the did not "teach abortion" publicly, they merely laid the groundwork.
Why would they seek consel from something they do not believe as truth?
they 'believed' the teaching on breath life... nothing was 'taught' about abortion... so this question is invalid
As I said before if it is about someone changing their mind about what they once thought and now do not well that happened to everyone about one thing or another.
that's NOT what it was about. A person could hear the teaching in PFAL about "breath life" and not even think about abortion. Abortion was nowhere in the context. I know I didn't hear the "breath life" teaching and immediately think "OH! Abortion is OK!"... I doubt that you did either, but it laid the groundwork for us to be taken there later
Rascal's experience is not about someone going into a program and changing their mind. You have missed the point entirely if that's what you think. This thread is essentially about what is an abortion? And Rascal's experience is germaine to what TWI taught publicly versus what they 'counselled' folks to do privately.
no I suppose some would not imediately think of an abortion when taking pfal and learning about breath life, yet that was the reference given to those who sought consel regarding what to do with an unplanned pregnancy.
I agree they never taught abortion , yet as often the case in twi the bible teachings are the standard of how to make a decision in life and the breath life teaching was taught to explain when life began. I understand what your saying about people going into the wow program and not understanding what the he11 the way ministry believed or even taught, many did go into the wow program gung ho for something they had no clue about!!! and got hurt .
but I do not think at the corps level people were as ignorant they were involved to a maximum level and by that time jumping hoops and ponds heh for the way ministry and very aware of the outcomes of some of the leaders decision for others and wanted a piece of it. "sold out" remember?
thank you for trying to explain to me tom strange it helped some.
I have a problem with the term "forced" I do not believe anyone was forced to have an abortion if not for nothing the bottom line they could have left the program which is what many did opt to do.
consequences and not being able to impress who ever you felt you should not with standing.
At some point everyone on this site cracked and said Im leaving or I wont do it and were FORCED out I know I was.
to me force is when they call a limb meeting and say she/he is no longer allowed to speak to you or attend any function with the way.
But not in an abortion I do not believe anyone was M@A over the decision to have a abortion or not. to be labeled a less than believer for sure as clearly twi stand was pregnancy was not to be a issue in commintment to God or the organization.
yes maybe the people pleasing trip took a hit if you defied somones consel on what they thought you should do and yes that may damage your rep in the group. but to say somone was forced to have an abortion or kicked out of the way ministry because they refused to get an abortion is an allegation I do not believe. I saw to many leave those programs and return later still trying to please their rulers .
I personly was involved in a scandal and a cover up was protrayed to save a person reputation in the ministry . I was simply marked and avoided to make it all go away and to shut my mouth up about the facts I could prove.
but an abortion is a medical procedure and ya know as much as I understand and I do understand the pressure to comply with what floated the boat , to say force was used is a little misleading . to say a person felt unable to go outside of the cult and seek different consel I would believe. due to mental inability at the time.
but to say somone was forced to have an abortion or kicked out of the way ministry because they refused to get an abortion is an allegation I do not believe.
So you're basically calling Rascal a liar, despite the fact that you have neither firsthand knowledge of the incident, nor any demonstrable evidence to cast that aspersion upon her.
I think people feel the pressure to conform in a cult .
it is the word forced which to me implies a lack of other choices .
other choices where available . so to me that is not forced . concerning the abortion part . but oh YEp yeah baby you can get kicked out I did and several others when they defied leadership consel.
that is what twi turned into and that was the bottom line for everyone was it not ?
quote:it is the word forced which to me implies a lack of other choices .
You seem to be making a distinction between "being" forced, and "feeling" forced. One implies actual physical force, from a perpetrator. The other implies feeling pressure and force, mental pressure, as one might have in difficult decision making.
I guess to some there is little distinction, but I think there is one, and see where you're coming from.
I have read the story of the guy who comminted suicide , that is a type of mental pressure the way may have generated over folks .
but the thing is we did leave many of us did one way or another because the line just got to thick for life in and of itself to please the way. I tell ya I was nuts for a while after I got marked I thought people where in my apartment when I was not home like the LC and BC that marked me!!
can you say they drove me NUTS????? paranoid afraid of what they were capable of doing??? mind games.
I was in a mess... a real long reaching long lasting mess .
and that is what it was mind games only.
I think some would do just about anything at some point to please our thoughts our own minds on what what we wanted to believe was right or wrong to belong to the cult.
but it was mostly just how we thought at the time.
yes we could have been thrown out and that was such a big friggin deal and a honest threat for everyone nearly everyday .
so every person had to get to the point the choice would no longer be twi or themselves.
when I think of force I think of guns and knife and crime not the fact you may be asked to leave a small insignificant group of idiots in OHIO>
mj412, I was there for close to 20 years scanning twi1 and twi2 and I don't recall ever thinking I had access to aid in the organizing of structure that was not already thought out and implemented by the more noble higher ups.
But I will give you your quote "I think people want power in this world and prestige and the ability to tell others". I saw some that fit that to a T. But I also saw others that had pure hearts at the start but were so blinded by the ever-changing ground rules they just got lost. Some are still lost.
There are different definitions of "forced" being used among the various posters. Some of us prefer to see "force" as being literal and physical. Oldiesman, I don't think that I'm out of line to say that you are in this camp. Others of us use "forced" in a different sense: blackmailed, backed into a corner, given a "choice" between two bad alternatives.
We get into these stupid arguments when we aren't using the same definitions. One us claims to have been "forced" to do something, another of us scoffs that the other was most certainly not "forced", but the two are talking about two very different things.
Can we just accept that we use the word and concept of force differently? When one of the ladies says that she was "forced" to service the MOG, can those who adhere to the literal definition just shut up? I find it hard to believe that you don't know what is being referred to. On the other hand when a poster insists that we are responsible for our own actions, can we refrain from gang tackling that person, because surely we know where they are coming from?
A couple of other notes:
In the spirit of full disclosure, I am the "one person" among Rascal's supporters who she has met. But guess what? We don't always agree! We exchanged a few PTs a few months back after I stuck up for Oldiesman on a thread.
I didn't mention any names in my last post. If the shoe fits, pull it out of your mouth. If not, maybe I'm not referring to you
I am still watching this twi thing in many lifes that surround me.
It has taken me a million years to realize something housearockin.
the secret to succes or even peace in life is not being meek or even full of courage it is to be honest in the very least to one own self and more hopefully to the creator of our very souls.
so many lost the ability to be honest while thinking they had found the truth in life. twi claimed to teach or know the truth yet what good is anything if your not honest?
God is truly LOVE to me now and even in times of huge turmoil and stress I think God must love ME>
not what I do or did or didnt do . He had the idea of what a human could be and well in all honestly here I am I must be good enough or why even bother to think a God is a father of all ?
what keeps me well is the fact I aslo just as firmly believe the above about every human on earth and creature He created.
I know we got caught up in something and I think it was the inability to be honest and real and I think the reason ws not to please God and often not our own self but rather one another.
and why? to be able to know we are loved.
so I decided what I decided and know God does indeed love us all very very much and each and every one of us is worthy of that fact. the fact I do not understand or even hate another does little to change this fact to me,I know Jesus Christ gave us one another to make life worthwhile and it is the only reason to livefor me . but honesty to God and one another and mostly to your own self is the only way home to a place of knowing we all share this capacity called love. without it I do not think it is love at all just a illusion or a lie.
mj412, honesty with ourselves includes acceptance that some foxes came in sheep's clothes. And some did not escape the claws or their lairs. Does God love them less, I think not, but is He disgusted by their behavior, I think yes.
I had truama a great deal of truama that will indeed last a life time from folks I knew while in the way ministry .
yet I can not blame an organization , people mess up and I truly feel twi just organized what all of mankind is indeed capable of doing to one another. I was bitter for about five years and God dealt a great deal with my life then and showed me His outrageous power and strength in this world and His ability to change each one of us if we allow Him to . the change for me was a view that He loves us he does not stop it is indeed one another choice to act on love or hate.
If I loved somone I certainly would never want them to hurt or compromise their happiness for me is Gods love any less? forgivness is key to knowing what love is, to love myself I have to forgive myself for regrets and mistakes that humans do in life out of ignorance or even worse.. If I can and do allow myself forgivness I can only then gladly grant that same respect to another regardless of what may have happened. or why.
I do not think God holds grudges to me clearly forgivness is just that forgivness. I like this for me and once again view this for all of the world at large. we are talking about our very brothers and sisters in Christ in twi!
although it is appealing and drama and enticing to scream the horror of just how evil can play out itself amoung man kind I tend to remember I also am of the same breed and concern .
when I am in trouble and maybe capable of hurting another I hope someone who loves and listens to God will clearly speak to me in the tone we all yearn for in life with out malice or bitterness towards the person but rather the problem itself.
and then be willing to forgive as we all wait for the next chance to truly love as He loves us .
I guess that I don`t feel like I am speaking from my experience alone......I am speaking up for the other friends whom I have met through the years since leaving who were *counceled* into aborting their children as well ....we have cried over our shame together....for the most part ... most of us have kept our dirty little *secrets* hidden ...most feel deeply betrayed that the abortion was presented as a Godly positive alternative...and to refuse was not to be entertained.....
It is not just me who feels the betrayal by leaders supposed christian ...those we trusted to have our best interests at heart...those whom insisted that this was God`s will...its not just the feeling of betrayal of our trust concerning the state of our unborn children...but so many many instances folks were bullied into doing that which they wouldn`t have ordinarily done had not the name of God and the authority of twisted scriptures been applied as a weapon to enforce the desired behavior.
Tom...it is the same thing...the helpless frustration of what you KNOW that you would rather do...what you would do in ANY other circumstance and the pressure of what they said God needed us to do....it was always between what we wanted and what God required....and to chose anything other than what leaders suggested was considered to be an extended big ole finger in God`s direction..spiritually.
That is how I see it House is rocking ...and further .. I think that untill we recognise those *foxes* (I see em as wolves) as such...we can still be unduly influenced by their unhealthy ideology.
Oak: shouldn't that be: "Used to drive a WOW mobile"?!
quote:We get into these stupid arguments when we aren't using the same definitions. One us claims to have been "forced" to do something, another of us scoffs that the other was most certainly not "forced", but the two are talking about two very different things.
And I'm also thinking... "why should that even matter?" It would seem compassion is needed more than nit-pickyness..
I know God protected me from a great deal of harms way , did i meet trouble? yes but if you play with fire you may get burned and maybe next time you will understand better and hopefully be less willing to compromise your own self and others .
I do not live in fear no way I truly do love people and The bible states to love and pray for our enemys not just those who help us feel good.
it works. not a fake love a type of understanding that we all may play many different roles and positions in life if it was not for the utter grace of God and a genuine thankfullness and love for one another is what brings about the changes often needed to be healed from pain and bitterness .
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mj412
ok explain this to me please Oak or anyone.
I do not see the problem..
abortions happened alot we all agree , people were conseled to have abortions we all agree.
Hope R. shared that LCM taught abortion was not murder in an advanced class in a previous post .
VPW clearly taught breath life in the PFAL class.
it was taught as Gods words and all good believers wanted and attempted to believe pfal. and/or teachings from the way.
I understand what oldiesman is asking about at what point does a life become a life in other words if an abortion is approved of and the child could "take a breath" if given a chance and I wonder as well and would have liked to have heard some posts about that issue.
that I understand but the fact abortion was given as an option and was even taught as a choice for woman in life without the consequence of sin (murder) was always pretty much a given and never changed .
The part I do not understand is this and I need someone to explain clearly IF a person does not agree with what pfal taught as breath life and wanted to go into a program that the twi had for ITS FOLLOWERS (meaning its doctrine and leaders) why would they do it? Why would they seek consel from something they do not believe as truth? As I said before if it is about someone changing their mind about what they once thought and now do not well that happened to everyone about one thing or another.
I see this as twi teaching something and then following through with its practical application in real life so naturaly abortions happened amass it was taught from day one that pregnancy was not a life.
what is the problem then seriously? where is the wrongness or the lie or the evilness?
not in whether abortion is correct for you or not it is a personal thing as I stated before between peole and their beliefs. But twi always taught it never claimed they didnt teach it and actualy helped others participate in its application... where did they lie about anything concerning this?
if ya think abortion is wrong you do and you have every right. YET clearly twi never did and still does not and never claimed to believe such.
So how can widespread abortions be such an outrage or shock to those who chose to listen to the teachings or consel?
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mj412
If this thread is some how morphed into a support group for those who feel victimized by a abortion and now feel a need for compassion and love in their regret and sorrow and I missed it .
sorry in advance then.
but as far as what old man started this thread about at what point is life a life and how and what twi taught concerning it was what was interesting to me .
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Tom Strange
I won't even dignify the first part of your above post with a response.
as for the second part:
It's about Abortion. It's about are you killing something or not. And HOW TWI presented it to the masses and HOW they presented it individually in counselling sessions HAS A LOT TO DO WITH IT. How it affected different people has a lot to do with it.Link to comment
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Zixar
The point is that TWI publicly taught that abortion was not murder, and it was up to the woman to choose whether it was right or not for her (according to a pad of belief sheets TWI gave me when I went out WOW), yet PRIVATELY reneged on that "choice" and required Rascal and others to abort pregnancies for no legitimate reason. Therefore, it was two-faced, manipulative, and coercive--the exact opposite of a ministry supposedly based on godly love and moral principles.
That you or I were not personally privy to this coercion does not mean it did not exist, especially in the face of Rascal's first-hand testimony. One can't say TWI was innocent of forced abortion just because it wasn't preached from the Big Tent.
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Tom Strange
mj said: (my response in bold)
Rascal's experience is not about someone going into a program and changing their mind. You have missed the point entirely if that's what you think. This thread is essentially about what is an abortion? And Rascal's experience is germaine to what TWI taught publicly versus what they 'counselled' folks to do privately.Link to comment
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mj412
Tom
no I suppose some would not imediately think of an abortion when taking pfal and learning about breath life, yet that was the reference given to those who sought consel regarding what to do with an unplanned pregnancy.
I agree they never taught abortion , yet as often the case in twi the bible teachings are the standard of how to make a decision in life and the breath life teaching was taught to explain when life began. I understand what your saying about people going into the wow program and not understanding what the he11 the way ministry believed or even taught, many did go into the wow program gung ho for something they had no clue about!!! and got hurt .
but I do not think at the corps level people were as ignorant they were involved to a maximum level and by that time jumping hoops and ponds heh for the way ministry and very aware of the outcomes of some of the leaders decision for others and wanted a piece of it. "sold out" remember?
thank you for trying to explain to me tom strange it helped some.
I have a problem with the term "forced" I do not believe anyone was forced to have an abortion if not for nothing the bottom line they could have left the program which is what many did opt to do.
consequences and not being able to impress who ever you felt you should not with standing.
At some point everyone on this site cracked and said Im leaving or I wont do it and were FORCED out I know I was.
to me force is when they call a limb meeting and say she/he is no longer allowed to speak to you or attend any function with the way.
But not in an abortion I do not believe anyone was M@A over the decision to have a abortion or not. to be labeled a less than believer for sure as clearly twi stand was pregnancy was not to be a issue in commintment to God or the organization.
yes maybe the people pleasing trip took a hit if you defied somones consel on what they thought you should do and yes that may damage your rep in the group. but to say somone was forced to have an abortion or kicked out of the way ministry because they refused to get an abortion is an allegation I do not believe. I saw to many leave those programs and return later still trying to please their rulers .
I personly was involved in a scandal and a cover up was protrayed to save a person reputation in the ministry . I was simply marked and avoided to make it all go away and to shut my mouth up about the facts I could prove.
but an abortion is a medical procedure and ya know as much as I understand and I do understand the pressure to comply with what floated the boat , to say force was used is a little misleading . to say a person felt unable to go outside of the cult and seek different consel I would believe. due to mental inability at the time.
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Zixar
Nice.
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mj412
I think people feel the pressure to conform in a cult .
it is the word forced which to me implies a lack of other choices .
other choices where available . so to me that is not forced . concerning the abortion part . but oh YEp yeah baby you can get kicked out I did and several others when they defied leadership consel.
that is what twi turned into and that was the bottom line for everyone was it not ?
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insurgent
mj, in the words of my wise mother....
Quit while you're behind.
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mj412
insurgent
behind what exactly?
heh I should scoop the cat box sound like more fun thanks.
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oldiesman
MJ412
You seem to be making a distinction between "being" forced, and "feeling" forced. One implies actual physical force, from a perpetrator. The other implies feeling pressure and force, mental pressure, as one might have in difficult decision making.
I guess to some there is little distinction, but I think there is one, and see where you're coming from.
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mj412
I have read the story of the guy who comminted suicide , that is a type of mental pressure the way may have generated over folks .
but the thing is we did leave many of us did one way or another because the line just got to thick for life in and of itself to please the way. I tell ya I was nuts for a while after I got marked I thought people where in my apartment when I was not home like the LC and BC that marked me!!
can you say they drove me NUTS????? paranoid afraid of what they were capable of doing??? mind games.
I was in a mess... a real long reaching long lasting mess .
and that is what it was mind games only.
I think some would do just about anything at some point to please our thoughts our own minds on what what we wanted to believe was right or wrong to belong to the cult.
but it was mostly just how we thought at the time.
yes we could have been thrown out and that was such a big friggin deal and a honest threat for everyone nearly everyday .
so every person had to get to the point the choice would no longer be twi or themselves.
when I think of force I think of guns and knife and crime not the fact you may be asked to leave a small insignificant group of idiots in OHIO>
sorry for the misunderstanding.
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Zixar
The armchair quarterback never misses a pass on Monday morning.
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Trefor Heywood
One of the apposite quotes from Ronald Reagan:
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mj412
yet trefor how do ya know for sure?
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houseisarockin
mj412, I was there for close to 20 years scanning twi1 and twi2 and I don't recall ever thinking I had access to aid in the organizing of structure that was not already thought out and implemented by the more noble higher ups.
But I will give you your quote "I think people want power in this world and prestige and the ability to tell others". I saw some that fit that to a T. But I also saw others that had pure hearts at the start but were so blinded by the ever-changing ground rules they just got lost. Some are still lost.
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Oakspear
There are different definitions of "forced" being used among the various posters. Some of us prefer to see "force" as being literal and physical. Oldiesman, I don't think that I'm out of line to say that you are in this camp. Others of us use "forced" in a different sense: blackmailed, backed into a corner, given a "choice" between two bad alternatives.
We get into these stupid arguments when we aren't using the same definitions. One us claims to have been "forced" to do something, another of us scoffs that the other was most certainly not "forced", but the two are talking about two very different things.
Can we just accept that we use the word and concept of force differently? When one of the ladies says that she was "forced" to service the MOG, can those who adhere to the literal definition just shut up? I find it hard to believe that you don't know what is being referred to. On the other hand when a poster insists that we are responsible for our own actions, can we refrain from gang tackling that person, because surely we know where they are coming from?
A couple of other notes:
In the spirit of full disclosure, I am the "one person" among Rascal's supporters who she has met. But guess what? We don't always agree! We exchanged a few PTs a few months back after I stuck up for Oldiesman on a thread.
I didn't mention any names in my last post. If the shoe fits, pull it out of your mouth. If not, maybe I'm not referring to you
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mj412
I am still watching this twi thing in many lifes that surround me.
It has taken me a million years to realize something housearockin.
the secret to succes or even peace in life is not being meek or even full of courage it is to be honest in the very least to one own self and more hopefully to the creator of our very souls.
so many lost the ability to be honest while thinking they had found the truth in life. twi claimed to teach or know the truth yet what good is anything if your not honest?
God is truly LOVE to me now and even in times of huge turmoil and stress I think God must love ME>
not what I do or did or didnt do . He had the idea of what a human could be and well in all honestly here I am I must be good enough or why even bother to think a God is a father of all ?
what keeps me well is the fact I aslo just as firmly believe the above about every human on earth and creature He created.
I know we got caught up in something and I think it was the inability to be honest and real and I think the reason ws not to please God and often not our own self but rather one another.
and why? to be able to know we are loved.
so I decided what I decided and know God does indeed love us all very very much and each and every one of us is worthy of that fact. the fact I do not understand or even hate another does little to change this fact to me,I know Jesus Christ gave us one another to make life worthwhile and it is the only reason to livefor me . but honesty to God and one another and mostly to your own self is the only way home to a place of knowing we all share this capacity called love. without it I do not think it is love at all just a illusion or a lie.
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rascal
Why mj .... I guess I haven`t felt that much *love* since leaving twi...thanks :-)
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houseisarockin
mj412, honesty with ourselves includes acceptance that some foxes came in sheep's clothes. And some did not escape the claws or their lairs. Does God love them less, I think not, but is He disgusted by their behavior, I think yes.
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mj412
I had truama a great deal of truama that will indeed last a life time from folks I knew while in the way ministry .
yet I can not blame an organization , people mess up and I truly feel twi just organized what all of mankind is indeed capable of doing to one another. I was bitter for about five years and God dealt a great deal with my life then and showed me His outrageous power and strength in this world and His ability to change each one of us if we allow Him to . the change for me was a view that He loves us he does not stop it is indeed one another choice to act on love or hate.
If I loved somone I certainly would never want them to hurt or compromise their happiness for me is Gods love any less? forgivness is key to knowing what love is, to love myself I have to forgive myself for regrets and mistakes that humans do in life out of ignorance or even worse.. If I can and do allow myself forgivness I can only then gladly grant that same respect to another regardless of what may have happened. or why.
I do not think God holds grudges to me clearly forgivness is just that forgivness. I like this for me and once again view this for all of the world at large. we are talking about our very brothers and sisters in Christ in twi!
although it is appealing and drama and enticing to scream the horror of just how evil can play out itself amoung man kind I tend to remember I also am of the same breed and concern .
when I am in trouble and maybe capable of hurting another I hope someone who loves and listens to God will clearly speak to me in the tone we all yearn for in life with out malice or bitterness towards the person but rather the problem itself.
and then be willing to forgive as we all wait for the next chance to truly love as He loves us .
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rascal
I guess that I don`t feel like I am speaking from my experience alone......I am speaking up for the other friends whom I have met through the years since leaving who were *counceled* into aborting their children as well ....we have cried over our shame together....for the most part ... most of us have kept our dirty little *secrets* hidden ...most feel deeply betrayed that the abortion was presented as a Godly positive alternative...and to refuse was not to be entertained.....
It is not just me who feels the betrayal by leaders supposed christian ...those we trusted to have our best interests at heart...those whom insisted that this was God`s will...its not just the feeling of betrayal of our trust concerning the state of our unborn children...but so many many instances folks were bullied into doing that which they wouldn`t have ordinarily done had not the name of God and the authority of twisted scriptures been applied as a weapon to enforce the desired behavior.
Tom...it is the same thing...the helpless frustration of what you KNOW that you would rather do...what you would do in ANY other circumstance and the pressure of what they said God needed us to do....it was always between what we wanted and what God required....and to chose anything other than what leaders suggested was considered to be an extended big ole finger in God`s direction..spiritually.
That is how I see it House is rocking ...and further .. I think that untill we recognise those *foxes* (I see em as wolves) as such...we can still be unduly influenced by their unhealthy ideology.
Evan...ain`t it a kick in the pants?
Zix...thanks.
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Tom Strange
Oak: shouldn't that be: "Used to drive a WOW mobile"?!
And I'm also thinking... "why should that even matter?" It would seem compassion is needed more than nit-pickyness..Link to comment
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mj412
I know God protected me from a great deal of harms way , did i meet trouble? yes but if you play with fire you may get burned and maybe next time you will understand better and hopefully be less willing to compromise your own self and others .
I do not live in fear no way I truly do love people and The bible states to love and pray for our enemys not just those who help us feel good.
it works. not a fake love a type of understanding that we all may play many different roles and positions in life if it was not for the utter grace of God and a genuine thankfullness and love for one another is what brings about the changes often needed to be healed from pain and bitterness .
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