quote:There WAS no choice if you wanted to remain spiritually strong...acceptable to God...worthey of fellowship with your spiritual brothers and sisters..If you didn`t give a damn about God or didn`t mind spiritual posession ostracisation from the body of christ...certain death spiritually and physically....than of course you had all of the options in the world.
Since this is what YOU felt and was YOUR perception of things, then I will accept that as YOUR experience and testimony. But saying those things apply to others as well, goes overboard.
Try to look at it this way:
You say I've whitewashed and painted a rosey scenario of twi, that doesn't necessarily apply to others. ... ok, I see this as something similar, only the opposite. I see you as painting a exceedingly morbid view of twi, that doesn't necessarily apply to others.
God oldies.. .I agree...absofrigginlutely on THAT point! What I share IS excedeingly morbid....but consider the reason being is simply because what I and many others endured WAS EXCEDEINGLY HORRIBLY MORBID!!!!!
I endured it I experienced it ...others endured...others experienced evebn WORSE at the hands of twi leaders...It WAS FRICKEN morbid to endure these things at the hands of those whom we trusted to teach us God`s word...it was SICK it was WRONG and it was EVIL!
What happened to us those of us mistreated was NOT in any way shape or form Godly......
That it happened to ONE of us would be too many...but it happened over and over and over...and yet you wanna say that yeah...but it was STILL ok cause *I* had a good time....geeze...
Well what happened to us in God`s name WASN`T good ..it wasn`t God`s will nor Godly in anyway...it never will be.
quote:That it happened to ONE of us would be too many...but it happened over and over and over...and yet you wanna say that yeah...but it was STILL ok...
Whether it is ok or not is for the individual to decide ... whether or not the individual accepts responsibility for their own actions, or simply lays most or all of the blame on twi leaders. Personally, I've not layed all the blame on twi leaders ... as you well know ... because it seems rather obvious to me that it wasn't all their fault for difficult decisions made. So I guess we always disagree. But I don't think they were aiding and abetting murder, no matter what you think.
I never SAID they were aiding and abetting murder...EVER..stop lying..what I SAID was that twi leadres INSISTED that it was God`s Demand that I destroy the unborn child that I wanted...PERIOD!!!
Hell of a thing for God`s leaders to teach to insist.
Oldies, I'm sorry that you feel like you screwed up and got dropped from the corps for not living up to their standards. Did it ever occur to you that it wasn't something that you did, but rather the unjust way they evaluated everything?
My spouse still carries much guilt for not being good enough to be corps. We didn't do anything wrong, just the top people didn't like the way we are or some other stupid reason. They started micro-managing our lives and harrassed us until it was a relief to finally be told to pack our bags.
Despite the obvious mis-treatment we faced, my spouse still feels like we were in over our heads and we were justly and mercifully spared by being dropped. I see the injustice in how we were treated and how hard we busted our bu**s to follow the program to the letter of the law. We weren't treated with love, we were abused verbally; beaten down; ridiculed; shamed and treated like pre-school children.
It's okay to get mad and claim that you did nothing wrong. Really. It's healthy even. No one should go through life feeling as though they failed an evil, horrible organization and group of religious zealots.
The person having an abortion by their own choice a choice twi said if this then that if that then this.
Twi did not perform abortions.
did they teach breath life ?
Yes.
did you believe it?
yes.
Twi has never said the teaching on when life is life was wrong then or now.
Yes rascal alot of folks got hurt including those trying to live within the borders and teachings taught which would be leaders as well.
You sound like you want punishment . and the guilty would be who exactly ? every person involved in making decisions while involved in the cult the honezst answer would cover all I suppose.
Good luck on that .
I do not want to punish anyone God loved us then and loves us all now .
I refuse to point fingers and stand on some self righteous platform of a forever victim. many were victims of much bad situations and I seriously do not believe the majority sat up at night and plotted evil against their brothers and sisters for kicks.
it was a cult and people got hurt. If the fact you now believe the bible teachings you once believed as truth for your life are wrong and evil say so , but to stretch it and say "the leaders" formulated the plan and forced you for their own gain and just to cause you life long pain only shows how very unforgiving you are of yourself and anyone eles that was into twi.
Ok...away from Cathy is a pooh pooh haid cause oldies doesn`t agree ..and back to the subject at hand ....Twi taught the women whom were pregnant that
A) the fetus must not interfere with their commitment to God...you must not be a breaker of vows...if you do you are a liar.
B) the fetus was not alive till it took it`s first breath....cause adam wasn`t alive till God breathed into him...
C) the fetus had less value than a real life because the penalty for killing someone and causing a woman to *loose her fruit* were different.
D) the fetus was a parasite because it could not exist without the *host*
E) A fetus was nothing more than some cells that needed removal in order for a woman to comply with God`s directive.
Combine all of this with the doctrine of spiritual maturity demands implicit obedience of a leaders every suggestion...that to follow the instructions even when wrong would result in prosperity because God would honor the heart....and you have some pretty heavy coersion.
Geeze Mj...I don`t want punishment...I am not begging for attention....I am not moaning oh hhh woooe is me...I was so mistreated....
What I AM doing is simply making folks aware of the evil wrought by men purporting to serve God.....I want people to stop saying that *twi was Godly* because I recieved some personal benefit...
Once people realise that what we were taught...was designed by men whom were practicing great evil in their personal lives...
it opens the door to healing...freedome from a lifetime of striving to live up to a goofey standard that was never God`s will in the FIRST place.
So spare me your guessing about my mental state...mj... you even READING what I wrote? I doubt it, as your view of me and my motives is pretty far off the mark... distorted...you are seeing things and attributing characteristics to me that are not mine....
Now...if we are finished psycho analysing me and my motives for staunch defense of the believes whom were mistreated outragiously in God`s name....verses the support of twi and it`s leaders as Godly caring individuals....back to the topic at hand...
quote: Saying there was no choice, is a lie. Or a misrepresentation. Or an exaggeration. Or Victim Mentality Propaganda. Whatever you call it, I don't buy it.
Oldies -- if I were to hold you at gunpoint, and say something like "your money, or your life", you would have a choice.
If I were to hold you at gunpoint and say something like "step into speeding traffic, or else", you would have a choice.
And if I were to handcuff you, and toss you into a lake saying "sink, or swim", again you would have a choice.
The two "constants" in these hypothetical situations are the fact that either way you suffer harm, but you have a choice.
You say that a "choice" was offered to those women, yet I see it as a choice that is as "desirable" as the ones I am postulating here, for you. -->
If I were to be confronted by "church" authority for being a lying, drunk, thief that needs to "clean up his act" before resuming fellowship with that church, that would be a "choice" I could live with.
That is NOT the case that Rascal, and others have stated here. The "choice" offered to them was indeed a "choice", but either way they went would be a lose/lose situation, therefore not a viable choice at all. They were told to "sink or swim", and given the coercion that twi used to protect those in the upper echelons, it was the same as if a gun were held to their heads.
Now I am curious as to why you got kicked out, since you stated you did not live up to the standards expected. Hmmmm??? I am guessing that whatever you did, it did not include the murder of an innocent life, so I guess that makes you less of a sinner, eh?
I wasn't going to say anything here, but I hate to see you ride rough-shod over Rascal, and spout ignorant, hurtful words that are in no way Godly, or edifying.
I said it in another thread about lcm, but these words can apply to you too, if you do not repent from these attacks. And that is---
"Your words are coming from the south end of a north bound horse."
God, and Jesus Christ are in the business of forgiveness. Sign up today. :)-->
They insisted you follow the rules of the program in which you made a commintment to when you signed on.
they taught breath life as a solution to your problem . and yes it was a problem concerning the rules you said you would obey when you joined. I know plenty and I mean plenty who went into the corps and left for many reasons ,sometimes their own misgivings as OM implied, it was your choice to put what twi said was an option as the one you chose.
they never said someone had to have an abortion to be a dulos Rascal .
quote: What do you believe concerning breath life doctrine that twi taught
I used to believe that a baby (who could not independantly live outside the womb) was not a viable "person" -- taught by twi.
I have since grown up, and matured, and realize now that they were covering up for indiscretions (if you will), that they would have to answer for, and take responsibility for. :(-->
I think it was Hope R who said earlier, that a woman gets concerned when she does not feel the kicking, etc. inside, because that is a sign of "lack of life, that was there before".
Seems like only the men of twi got to decide when life did, or did not come into being.
Yes mj they DID tell me that in order to be a dulos that I had to abort the wanted child....don`t you sit behind you moniter 19 years after the fact and tell ME what THEY said! Where the heck do you get off sitting behind that moniter all complacent THINKING you know what they said to me???? Placing motives and assigning me inapropriate labels???
They DID say that if I loved God I would honor the vows I made to HIM...not to twi not to a groups rules...those, believe me..I could have flaunted.
But when it came down to dissapointing God...seperating myself from his love and protection ...seperation from fellowhip with my beloved bretheren..placing me in danger of spiritual degredation and possession....I simply couldn`t bring myself to dissobey God.
Why are you standing up for these cowards who hid behind God and used the bible as their weapon to ensure complete obedience?
They DID say that God almighty ruler of the heavens and earth demanded THIS of ME IF I were truly a dulos.
Not twi rules demanded not leaders demanded...God demanded...THAT is what is wrong.
Why must you make it seem as if my outrage at what these evil men perpetrated on good hearted christians seem like it is missplaced.
I think that there is something wrong with sweeping it all under the rug and pretending that everything was just hunky dory in way world. If folks don`t realise that we were taught by evil men...it may be years if EVER it dawns on folks to question the false ungodly teachings.
quote: they never said someone had to have an abortion to be a dulos Rascal .
Thanks mj412 for at least suggesting this. My gawd. I think it's a question of priorities more than anything else, for the person making the decision. If a woman who decided to go corps got pregnant, and it wasn't allowed in the corps, she had to decide about her commitment to the corps ... hey its a difficult decision, but if she wanted that baby, she still could have decided to go home and have it. God's still on the throne, even if one chose to break their corps commitment for something else, or go in the corps at a later date when the circumstances permitted it. I get what you're saying. ...
Oldies ditto what I said to mj they DID say this to me...and F-**** you for calling me a liar.
Shall I add to what was said??? It is burned in my memory.
Your heart never WAS to go corpes if you let ANYTHING as inconsequential as an unplanned pregnancy or marriage prevent you from entering the program once signed on.
If You break your vow that you made to God...you are a liar...just look at what happened to annanias and safira..when THEY lied to God...
Look at what happened to the believers throughout the bible that became *stiff necked* cause they didn`t obey God....
Your saying that it didn`t happen won`t make it so oldies...
Think about the scum you are defending...the practices that you are saying are ok...think about why you despise me and those who have the nerve to stand up and say ..*This was WRONG*!
I didn`t HAVE a home to go to...many of us had given up everything to be God`s spiritual elite...ya know sold everything for have tuition...given up our jobs...and apartments...show our trust and believing don`tcha know....God would take care of everything just had to step out on our believing...cut ties with worldly friends and family....
Just WHERE would you suggest a pregnant woman with no money or transportation head to oldies??? Any suggestions?
Can`t depend on bretheren....you are now spiritual waste....can`t depend on family...you have offended them all years prior with your stand for God...and having no friends when it comes to the word!
On the OTHER hand everything could be fixed with one sterile little procedure... honor restored...integrety remains ....level of spiritual maturity unquestionable...God would be proud of you family would love and respect you...no harm no foul...satans ploys at decieving you into denying God foiled..right?
Undoubtedly... God is impressed and pleased with my demonstrated outstanding level of commitment...
No matter what facts you offer, Oldies will not be swayed. He has made up his mind and is closed to any facts or to any prospectives other then his own. He is in effect incorrigable.
His own opinions on matters related on TWI far outweigh any facts that anyone may offer.
Arguing with Oldies on this with the hope of changing his mind is like trying to break steel with a rubber hammer. It is a waste of time and effort.
quote:they never said someone had to have an abortion to be a dulos Rascal.
You know, it's one thing to argue and have an intelligent/heated discussion about the extent to which TWI pressured people to have abortions and/or the amount of choice the people had or felt they had. It's another thing entirely to tell someone that she was not told what she was told. I find that statement appalling. Argue with Rascal all you want. You are entitled to your own opinion. But as the saying goes, you are not entitled to your own facts. It is a fact that this is what she was told. I think Rascal is owed an apology (for whatever my thoughts are worth).
Raf, I have to be honest with you, I think she's exaggerating. I'm not calling her an out and out liar, and it's possible these things were said to her -- but I just don't believe everything she says. Period. It's almost like crying wolf. Rascal has made some extremely highly rhetorical statements here on Greasespot, and I just don't believe it all.
Besides, not everyone believes everything I say as well. Right Raf?
I have exagerated nothing...and for you to say so.......nice polite name for liar btw......because YOU cannot accept the depths of depravity of our special little group is ugly.
I don`t know why you need to make me or others whom experienced identical treatment look bad...I do not understand why it is important for you to try to maligne or misrepresent me and my positions on things in an attempt to discredit and cause folks to mistrust our accounts....... as much as you hate me for pointing out the flaws in our rosey little way world...you have no business pointing your finger at me and attacking my veracity..
I have no reason to lie I have no reason after nearly 15 years of being out to make up stories.You think I LIKE any of this??? that I get some kind of sick thrill out of titillating you with my over the edge stories???
There is something ugly and not right about you.
Thanks Goey...thanks Raf...dmiller...I don`t know what to do with one who wont listen and wants to prevent others from giving my accounts credence by branding me a liar......I only know that it makes me feel dirty all over again...
He has repeatedly demonstrated that he has one and only one aim - protect docvic(praise be his name) at all costs. And if in order to do that he has to demonize his sisters in Christ, he will spare no effort.
Recommended Posts
Top Posters In This Topic
62
61
55
20
Popular Days
Jun 10
71
Jun 7
52
Jun 9
41
Aug 15
32
Top Posters In This Topic
rascal 62 posts
oldiesman 61 posts
mj412 55 posts
Ham 20 posts
Popular Days
Jun 10 2004
71 posts
Jun 7 2004
52 posts
Jun 9 2004
41 posts
Aug 15 2007
32 posts
oldiesman
Try to look at it this way:
You say I've whitewashed and painted a rosey scenario of twi, that doesn't necessarily apply to others. ... ok, I see this as something similar, only the opposite. I see you as painting a exceedingly morbid view of twi, that doesn't necessarily apply to others.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
rascal
God oldies.. .I agree...absofrigginlutely on THAT point! What I share IS excedeingly morbid....but consider the reason being is simply because what I and many others endured WAS EXCEDEINGLY HORRIBLY MORBID!!!!!
I endured it I experienced it ...others endured...others experienced evebn WORSE at the hands of twi leaders...It WAS FRICKEN morbid to endure these things at the hands of those whom we trusted to teach us God`s word...it was SICK it was WRONG and it was EVIL!
What happened to us those of us mistreated was NOT in any way shape or form Godly......
That it happened to ONE of us would be too many...but it happened over and over and over...and yet you wanna say that yeah...but it was STILL ok cause *I* had a good time....geeze...
Well what happened to us in God`s name WASN`T good ..it wasn`t God`s will nor Godly in anyway...it never will be.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
oldiesman
Whether it is ok or not is for the individual to decide ... whether or not the individual accepts responsibility for their own actions, or simply lays most or all of the blame on twi leaders. Personally, I've not layed all the blame on twi leaders ... as you well know ... because it seems rather obvious to me that it wasn't all their fault for difficult decisions made. So I guess we always disagree. But I don't think they were aiding and abetting murder, no matter what you think.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
rascal
I never SAID they were aiding and abetting murder...EVER..stop lying..what I SAID was that twi leadres INSISTED that it was God`s Demand that I destroy the unborn child that I wanted...PERIOD!!!
Hell of a thing for God`s leaders to teach to insist.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
insurgent
Oldies, I'm sorry that you feel like you screwed up and got dropped from the corps for not living up to their standards. Did it ever occur to you that it wasn't something that you did, but rather the unjust way they evaluated everything?
My spouse still carries much guilt for not being good enough to be corps. We didn't do anything wrong, just the top people didn't like the way we are or some other stupid reason. They started micro-managing our lives and harrassed us until it was a relief to finally be told to pack our bags.
Despite the obvious mis-treatment we faced, my spouse still feels like we were in over our heads and we were justly and mercifully spared by being dropped. I see the injustice in how we were treated and how hard we busted our bu**s to follow the program to the letter of the law. We weren't treated with love, we were abused verbally; beaten down; ridiculed; shamed and treated like pre-school children.
It's okay to get mad and claim that you did nothing wrong. Really. It's healthy even. No one should go through life feeling as though they failed an evil, horrible organization and group of religious zealots.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
mj412
The person having an abortion by their own choice a choice twi said if this then that if that then this.
Twi did not perform abortions.
did they teach breath life ?
Yes.
did you believe it?
yes.
Twi has never said the teaching on when life is life was wrong then or now.
Yes rascal alot of folks got hurt including those trying to live within the borders and teachings taught which would be leaders as well.
You sound like you want punishment . and the guilty would be who exactly ? every person involved in making decisions while involved in the cult the honezst answer would cover all I suppose.
Good luck on that .
I do not want to punish anyone God loved us then and loves us all now .
I refuse to point fingers and stand on some self righteous platform of a forever victim. many were victims of much bad situations and I seriously do not believe the majority sat up at night and plotted evil against their brothers and sisters for kicks.
it was a cult and people got hurt. If the fact you now believe the bible teachings you once believed as truth for your life are wrong and evil say so , but to stretch it and say "the leaders" formulated the plan and forced you for their own gain and just to cause you life long pain only shows how very unforgiving you are of yourself and anyone eles that was into twi.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
rascal
Ok...away from Cathy is a pooh pooh haid cause oldies doesn`t agree ..and back to the subject at hand ....Twi taught the women whom were pregnant that
A) the fetus must not interfere with their commitment to God...you must not be a breaker of vows...if you do you are a liar.
B) the fetus was not alive till it took it`s first breath....cause adam wasn`t alive till God breathed into him...
C) the fetus had less value than a real life because the penalty for killing someone and causing a woman to *loose her fruit* were different.
D) the fetus was a parasite because it could not exist without the *host*
E) A fetus was nothing more than some cells that needed removal in order for a woman to comply with God`s directive.
Combine all of this with the doctrine of spiritual maturity demands implicit obedience of a leaders every suggestion...that to follow the instructions even when wrong would result in prosperity because God would honor the heart....and you have some pretty heavy coersion.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
mj412
yes I agree with your last post.
and i believe people got hurt .
but Om began this post about what folks think about the abortion laws that are now in place about fetal protection.
I get what OM is discussing I think he wants to discuss how these new ideas jive with what twi taught as breath life.
it does not have to turn into a personal attack about who was stupid in the cult.
so rascal I assume although you have only implied you no longer agree with the teaching on breath life? you think what now then?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
rascal
Geeze Mj...I don`t want punishment...I am not begging for attention....I am not moaning oh hhh woooe is me...I was so mistreated....
What I AM doing is simply making folks aware of the evil wrought by men purporting to serve God.....I want people to stop saying that *twi was Godly* because I recieved some personal benefit...
Once people realise that what we were taught...was designed by men whom were practicing great evil in their personal lives...
it opens the door to healing...freedome from a lifetime of striving to live up to a goofey standard that was never God`s will in the FIRST place.
So spare me your guessing about my mental state...mj... you even READING what I wrote? I doubt it, as your view of me and my motives is pretty far off the mark... distorted...you are seeing things and attributing characteristics to me that are not mine....
Now...if we are finished psycho analysing me and my motives for staunch defense of the believes whom were mistreated outragiously in God`s name....verses the support of twi and it`s leaders as Godly caring individuals....back to the topic at hand...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
dmiller
Oldies -- if I were to hold you at gunpoint, and say something like "your money, or your life", you would have a choice.
If I were to hold you at gunpoint and say something like "step into speeding traffic, or else", you would have a choice.
And if I were to handcuff you, and toss you into a lake saying "sink, or swim", again you would have a choice.
The two "constants" in these hypothetical situations are the fact that either way you suffer harm, but you have a choice.
You say that a "choice" was offered to those women, yet I see it as a choice that is as "desirable" as the ones I am postulating here, for you.
-->
If I were to be confronted by "church" authority for being a lying, drunk, thief that needs to "clean up his act" before resuming fellowship with that church, that would be a "choice" I could live with.
That is NOT the case that Rascal, and others have stated here. The "choice" offered to them was indeed a "choice", but either way they went would be a lose/lose situation, therefore not a viable choice at all. They were told to "sink or swim", and given the coercion that twi used to protect those in the upper echelons, it was the same as if a gun were held to their heads.
Now I am curious as to why you got kicked out, since you stated you did not live up to the standards expected. Hmmmm??? I am guessing that whatever you did, it did not include the murder of an innocent life, so I guess that makes you less of a sinner, eh?
I wasn't going to say anything here, but I hate to see you ride rough-shod over Rascal, and spout ignorant, hurtful words that are in no way Godly, or edifying.
I said it in another thread about lcm, but these words can apply to you too, if you do not repent from these attacks. And that is---
"Your words are coming from the south end of a north bound horse."
God, and Jesus Christ are in the business of forgiveness. Sign up today.
:)-->
Link to comment
Share on other sites
rascal
What does my current belief have to do with what twi leaders taught as God`s standard and insisted I follow????
How does THIS negate the fact that because an umplanned pregnancy interfered with my ability to serve God...that I must abort a wanted baby?
How does THIS change the fact that twi leadership represented abortion as God`s demand of a dulos??
Link to comment
Share on other sites
mj412
I will ask simply then since you do not understand the question or just avoiding it.
What do you believe concerning breath life doctrine that twi taught Rascal?
did you change your mind about this ? or did you comply to something you believed was wrong because of consel you sought while in twi?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
mj412
They insisted you follow the rules of the program in which you made a commintment to when you signed on.
they taught breath life as a solution to your problem . and yes it was a problem concerning the rules you said you would obey when you joined. I know plenty and I mean plenty who went into the corps and left for many reasons ,sometimes their own misgivings as OM implied, it was your choice to put what twi said was an option as the one you chose.
they never said someone had to have an abortion to be a dulos Rascal .
Link to comment
Share on other sites
dmiller
I used to believe that a baby (who could not independantly live outside the womb) was not a viable "person" -- taught by twi.
I have since grown up, and matured, and realize now that they were covering up for indiscretions (if you will), that they would have to answer for, and take responsibility for.
:(-->
I think it was Hope R who said earlier, that a woman gets concerned when she does not feel the kicking, etc. inside, because that is a sign of "lack of life, that was there before".
Seems like only the men of twi got to decide when life did, or did not come into being.
How convienient.
--> 
:(-->
Link to comment
Share on other sites
rascal
Yes mj they DID tell me that in order to be a dulos that I had to abort the wanted child....don`t you sit behind you moniter 19 years after the fact and tell ME what THEY said! Where the heck do you get off sitting behind that moniter all complacent THINKING you know what they said to me???? Placing motives and assigning me inapropriate labels???
They DID say that if I loved God I would honor the vows I made to HIM...not to twi not to a groups rules...those, believe me..I could have flaunted.
But when it came down to dissapointing God...seperating myself from his love and protection ...seperation from fellowhip with my beloved bretheren..placing me in danger of spiritual degredation and possession....I simply couldn`t bring myself to dissobey God.
Why are you standing up for these cowards who hid behind God and used the bible as their weapon to ensure complete obedience?
They DID say that God almighty ruler of the heavens and earth demanded THIS of ME IF I were truly a dulos.
Not twi rules demanded not leaders demanded...God demanded...THAT is what is wrong.
Why must you make it seem as if my outrage at what these evil men perpetrated on good hearted christians seem like it is missplaced.
I think that there is something wrong with sweeping it all under the rug and pretending that everything was just hunky dory in way world. If folks don`t realise that we were taught by evil men...it may be years if EVER it dawns on folks to question the false ungodly teachings.
Edited by rascalLink to comment
Share on other sites
oldiesman
Thanks mj412 for at least suggesting this. My gawd. I think it's a question of priorities more than anything else, for the person making the decision. If a woman who decided to go corps got pregnant, and it wasn't allowed in the corps, she had to decide about her commitment to the corps ... hey its a difficult decision, but if she wanted that baby, she still could have decided to go home and have it. God's still on the throne, even if one chose to break their corps commitment for something else, or go in the corps at a later date when the circumstances permitted it. I get what you're saying. ...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
rascal
Oldies ditto what I said to mj they DID say this to me...and F-**** you for calling me a liar.
Shall I add to what was said??? It is burned in my memory.
Your heart never WAS to go corpes if you let ANYTHING as inconsequential as an unplanned pregnancy or marriage prevent you from entering the program once signed on.
If You break your vow that you made to God...you are a liar...just look at what happened to annanias and safira..when THEY lied to God...
Look at what happened to the believers throughout the bible that became *stiff necked* cause they didn`t obey God....
Your saying that it didn`t happen won`t make it so oldies...
Think about the scum you are defending...the practices that you are saying are ok...think about why you despise me and those who have the nerve to stand up and say ..*This was WRONG*!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
rascal
It`s all so cut n dried to you isn`t it oldies?
I didn`t HAVE a home to go to...many of us had given up everything to be God`s spiritual elite...ya know sold everything for have tuition...given up our jobs...and apartments...show our trust and believing don`tcha know....God would take care of everything just had to step out on our believing...cut ties with worldly friends and family....
Just WHERE would you suggest a pregnant woman with no money or transportation head to oldies??? Any suggestions?
Can`t depend on bretheren....you are now spiritual waste....can`t depend on family...you have offended them all years prior with your stand for God...and having no friends when it comes to the word!
On the OTHER hand everything could be fixed with one sterile little procedure... honor restored...integrety remains ....level of spiritual maturity unquestionable...God would be proud of you family would love and respect you...no harm no foul...satans ploys at decieving you into denying God foiled..right?
Undoubtedly... God is impressed and pleased with my demonstrated outstanding level of commitment...
Edited by rascalLink to comment
Share on other sites
Goey
Rascal,
No matter what facts you offer, Oldies will not be swayed. He has made up his mind and is closed to any facts or to any prospectives other then his own. He is in effect incorrigable.
His own opinions on matters related on TWI far outweigh any facts that anyone may offer.
Arguing with Oldies on this with the hope of changing his mind is like trying to break steel with a rubber hammer. It is a waste of time and effort.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Raf
You know, it's one thing to argue and have an intelligent/heated discussion about the extent to which TWI pressured people to have abortions and/or the amount of choice the people had or felt they had. It's another thing entirely to tell someone that she was not told what she was told. I find that statement appalling. Argue with Rascal all you want. You are entitled to your own opinion. But as the saying goes, you are not entitled to your own facts. It is a fact that this is what she was told. I think Rascal is owed an apology (for whatever my thoughts are worth).
Link to comment
Share on other sites
oldiesman
Raf, I have to be honest with you, I think she's exaggerating. I'm not calling her an out and out liar, and it's possible these things were said to her -- but I just don't believe everything she says. Period. It's almost like crying wolf. Rascal has made some extremely highly rhetorical statements here on Greasespot, and I just don't believe it all.
Besides, not everyone believes everything I say as well. Right Raf?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
rascal
I have exagerated nothing...and for you to say so.......nice polite name for liar btw......because YOU cannot accept the depths of depravity of our special little group is ugly.
I don`t know why you need to make me or others whom experienced identical treatment look bad...I do not understand why it is important for you to try to maligne or misrepresent me and my positions on things in an attempt to discredit and cause folks to mistrust our accounts....... as much as you hate me for pointing out the flaws in our rosey little way world...you have no business pointing your finger at me and attacking my veracity..
I have no reason to lie I have no reason after nearly 15 years of being out to make up stories.You think I LIKE any of this??? that I get some kind of sick thrill out of titillating you with my over the edge stories???
There is something ugly and not right about you.
Thanks Goey...thanks Raf...dmiller...I don`t know what to do with one who wont listen and wants to prevent others from giving my accounts credence by branding me a liar......I only know that it makes me feel dirty all over again...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Goey
Rascal,
Rascal, my suggestion is to simply ignore that person and give them no space between your ears.
No one likes being called a liar, but consider the source. The opinion of one sycophant does nothing to affect your credibility.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Steve!
I agree with Goey.
Why give any weight at all to anything om says?
He has repeatedly demonstrated that he has one and only one aim - protect docvic(praise be his name) at all costs. And if in order to do that he has to demonize his sisters in Christ, he will spare no effort.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.